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"Batman Begins" Talkback, Part I (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by James Harvey, Jun 15, 2005.

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Rate and Comment "Batman Begins"

  1. *****

    105 vote(s)
    58.3%
  2. ****1/2

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  3. ****

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  4. ***1/2

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  5. ***

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  6. **1/2

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  8. *1/2

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  9. *

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  10. Just end, already!

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  1. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest
    Staff Member Administrator Moderator Reporter

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    Welcome to Part I of the ongoing discussion on Batman Begins! Click here to read Part II!

    At 12:01, Evil Fears The Knight
    [​IMG]
    "I seek the means to fight injustice. To turn fear against those who prey on the fearful." - Bruce Wayne


    Release Date: June 15, 2005 (With June 14th Midnight Showings)
    Studio: Warner Bros. Pictures
    Director: Christopher Nolan
    Screenwriter: David Goyer, Christopher Nolan
    Starring: Christian Bale, Michael Caine, Liam Neeson, Morgan Freeman, Gary Oldman, Ken Watanabe, Katie Holmes, Cillian Murphy, Tom Wilkinson, Rutger Hauer
    Genre: Action, Crime
    MPAA Rating: PG-13 (for intense action violence, disturbing images & some thematic elements)
    Official Website: BatmanBegins.com

    Plot Summary: Christopher Nolan's Batman Begins explores the origins of the Batman legend and the Dark Knight's emergence as a force for good in Gotham. In the wake of his parents' murder, disillusioned industrial heir Bruce Wayne (Christian Bale) travels the world seeking the means to fight injustice and turn fear against those who prey on the fearful. He returns to Gotham and unveils his alter-ego: Batman, a masked crusader who uses his strength, intellect and an array of high tech deceptions to fight the sinister forces that threaten the city.

    Comments?

    Related Threads:
    -Batman Begins Soundtrack Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman (1989) Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman Returns Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman Forever Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman & Robin Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Catwoman Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: The Motion Picture Anthology DVD Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman Begins DVD Talkback (Spoilers)

    Note: View Part II of this discussion thread!
     
  2. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
    Staff Member Moderator

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    "If you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, you become something else entirely."

    Welcome to the Batman Begins talkback folks! :cool: I plan to see the movie this weekend with my brother and we are excited!

    While some comparison is only natural, we do not want to see this thread become a debate for whether Begins is better than the 1989 Batman film or any of the other previous films. For that, I encourage you all to visit, Batman & Batman Begins: Two men; two visions.

    Thank you.
     
  3. BeastBoyWonder

    BeastBoyWonder Teen Titans Go!

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    Well, just got back from the midnight showing with my best friend and his bro.

    Great film, everything came together really tightly and I loved all of the comic book references and how they were able to distill all of that source material into a very powerful movie. Aside from all of the stuff inspired from the comics and little references from the fans, the film achieved an emotional balance that felt just right. I had a few problems with the action scenes (the stuff with Bats sneaking around was great, but the straight-up action left quite a bit to be desired) and I'm not really sure about how I feel about Batman letting Ra's Al Ghul die. Still, the story and great moments more than made up for it. Speaking of Ra's, I loved how they left the Lazarus Pits garbage out of it but left the implication that Ra's coulda been really old. They did a great job of weeding out all of the silly or ineffective stuff and really captured the essence of the character, and I hope they continue in the same vein for a sequel.

    As a huge Batman fan, its absolutely impossible for me to objectively guage the film's merits because it was a continuous fanboy orgasm. Honestly, this is my favorite comic book film next to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Coming from me, that is high praise.

    EDIT: I'm really glad I avoided most of the clips out there and the spoilers. I think if I had known some of this stuff it would have ruined some of the surprises and dramatic impact. If you haven't seen the film, do me a favor and don't read any reviews or this thread until you do.

    EDIT2: Last edit, and then I'm leaving this post alone, I promise. I actually like their interpretation of the relationship between Fox and Wayne and their interpretation of the Society of Shadows better than that of the TAS. It works better if Lucius and Bruce have this kind of silent understanding, its more believable for Lucius to be Bruce's frontman.
     
  4. GregX

    GregX Active Member

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    Loved it. Loved it. Loved it.

    They nailed it. They just nailed it. Batman rocked. Christian Bale was perfect for the role. He did a great Batman and a great Bruce Wayne. Gary Oldman was really good as Gordon. Michael Caine as Alfred... never once did I imagine the actors playing the characters, they became their characters.

    As for the villains. Scarecrow was really cool. And Ra's al Ghul. Ra's has always been my favorite Batman movie, and he was adapted perfectly. They captured the spirit and feel of the character and managed to remove most of the fantasy elements from him, i.e. no Lazarus Pits. But still threw nods towards immortality. Ra's was cast perfectly.
     
  5. David Lucas

    David Lucas Active Member

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    I have just acquired a new most incredible way for me to tell my friends how [freak]ing amazing a movie is.

    "I will not say anything about this movie. Just go see it. That will be all."

    Honestly, I haven't been this stoked for a movie in a long long time. I was not let down in any way shape or form. This movie was perfection. Like afore mentioned, some of the action scenes left a little more to be desired but the action scenes that WERE in there came far from disappointing anyone in the audience.

    I'm so pumped up from seeing this movie that I gotta break down everything since this is a SPOILERS thread and I need to talk to someone about this or I'll burst.

    The Opening scenes - While the jail was a nice touch, I felt they could have spent an extra minute or two there, in fact, most of the opening felt really fast paced. Characters spouted lines almost as soon as another one finished one of theirs. Then BAM, we're somewhere else. It helped move things along, but a little bit of slowdown woulda went a long way. I've never been much of a DC reader, so the animated series and the movies were all I've ever gone on, and they never really took the idea of letting you see Wayne life before the murders. I wasn't a big fan of Thomas's actor, Bruce Waynes father just strikes me as someone a little more masculine than that. The murder was handled really nicely though, it felt like a real murder. Nothing too dramatic, just in, dead, out.

    The Training Scenes - Everything was awesome. The final test where he has to fight off Liam Neeson with all the ninjas around him was beautifully choreographed. However, that last little bit seemed really out of nowhere. These people took him in, trained him, treated him like a brother. But he refused to kill that one guy......so he killed everyone else.

    Yeah, that makes sense.

    The Scarecrow - He needed more time. Badly. He's on the loose still so I guess he can come back, but still. I guess if you saw the effect on his mask too much it wouldn't be as creepy. Kinda like the life sucked out of you face from the Ring, the creepiest part about it is how quickly it popped in and out.
    Still, great character.

    Falcone - I can't remember the name of the fat guy who ran the mob in Batman:TAS but this guy didn't really have too much of a "I run the city" vibe coming from him

    Alfred - This guy was the best part of the whole movie, hands down.

    Lucius Fox - I really liked this character, I also liked how at the end of the movie things were setting up for his eventual path to being the mayor......he DOES become the mayor right?

    Jim Gordon - I can not believe how restrained Gary Oldman was, I couldn't even believe that was Oldman. Every time I see Oldman I think of that line from Air Force One, "You would slaughter a thousand Iraqi's to save a nickel on a gallon of gas want to lecture me ON THE RULES OF WAR?!?! DON'T!!"

    This Gary Oldman was unlike any role I've ever seen him in, he usually ALWAYS hams it up, but he was so good as Gordon. I loved it.

    Katie Holmes - Why was she in this movie? Honestly. There was no reason for her to be in this movie. None. I keep trying to help out the writers and think of a reason for them, but I can't find any. Nada. It just doesn't make sense. She did nothing constructive throughout the whole movie. She held the little boys hand, that was about it.

    The Big Secret - Liam was Ra's. I am so frelling happy that I didn't see that coming. When he showed up in Wayne Manor, I don't know what they did differently, but I looked at him and he just felt like the same character from the animated series. The way he talked, acted, everything. That was the coolest surprise I could have ever hoped for from the movie, I was expecting a bad ass movie, not a huge revelation like that. He had that same manaical diabolical plans to save the world as the first time you met him in the series. It kind of reminds me of what Brian Cox said about his character in X-Men 2.

    "The best villains aren't the ones sitting there twirling their moustache. They're the ones who truly believe what they're doing is the right thing and will go to any means to achieve it."

    It just works so well.

    Christian Bale/Batman - Keaton, Clooney, West and Kilmer go home, we have a winner. Everything about this guy was just dead on for what I'd expect a yound Bruce Wayne to be like. It felt like I was watching an younger incarnation of Kevin Conroy's character from TAS, only in the real world. Some review said they didnt like his corny "Batman" voice. Screw that, it worked.

    I loved how plausible they tried to make this movie, I mean obviously they stretched a few things but I managed to put it all aside and just get lost in this world. Goyer and Nolan really nailed this. I am flat out amazed. This is easily the best comic book movie I've ever seen, and one of the best movies I've ever seen. Period.

    Oh yeah, and that [freak]ing Batmobile owned anything you've ever even dreamed of fighting crime in. Imagine what it'll be like when he hooks it up!!

    Language. - Bird Boy
     
  6. sdp

    sdp miscrave

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    I just got back and man do i love it the main thing i hate is how a sequel will take a long time to come out.

    Overall I think it was worth the 9$ admission, and more than that it is probably one of my favorite movies, and i get to brag that i got to see it at the big screen Imax :D

    I LOVED the movie and think of it as having nothing bad, this things i'm going to point out are small and don't really affect the movie at all but they did make me think about them ashmmm maybe it'd be better if that wasn't there,

    The bats scene seemed kind of unrealistic but it ws well done.
    The name of the girl escapes me at the moment but her knowing that batman is bruce bothered me a little and the scene with the dialogue where bruce gives it away it is him seems kind of appropiate only for the older batman films, also was this character in the comics? because i feel she got too much screentime.

    The voice as Batman seemed too forced, but i'm probably just so used to Kevin Conroy.
    Again probably because of B:TAS but i kind of would have liked the whole scene from Mask of the Phantasm how he desides to choose batman.
    I also don't like it how he said "I'm Batman" i think i like more how that is the name people gave him.
    The ending scene when he goes "but i don't have to save you" seemed a little out of character, i think Batman should have still saved him.

    Again those things are really little and are just my preferences that i know are unfair to epecect.
    Didn't like many of the Thomas Wayne scenes.
    There are so many things i just loved, i just loved it all so much.

    I had low expectations to the film i only liked the first teaser but all the trailers i didn't like at all. I am so glad they were just not the best trailers.

    I hope that Ras did somehow survive though, i mean he is just such a great villian of Batman that he always comes back and i wouldn't mind seeing him come back here as well.
     
  7. ClockStomper

    ClockStomper One who loves naked Kagome

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    I was excited to see Falcone in the film, as it foreshadows Two-Face. Very smart not to kill off Scarecrow, I want a movie-verse where miutiple villians are around at the same time (instead of being regularly killed off like in previous films.)
     
  8. Ordinary Guy

    Ordinary Guy The Old Dark Knight

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    Just got in from the midnight showing and.

    WOW!!!!!!

    The best Batman movie. Everything I was hoping to be good about this movie was good and then some.

    Christian Bale. I knew he would do it. Excellent job, my only problem was when he showed up to dinner with those two hot chicks and the waiter told him there was no swimming in the pool and he told him. "You know what I think I'll go ahead and buy this restuarant, and change some of the rules." I didn't like this part because it really made Bruce Wayne seem arrogant.

    But then again I guess it kind of works because at that time he didn't really know how Bruce Wayne was.

    The Scarecrow was awesome, in and out of costume. I hope they bring him back in the future if they decide to make more than three films.

    Gary Oldman impressed me because I'm so used to seeing him play a villian that I was just in awe of how well he protrayed Jim Gordan.

    Ra's al Ghul. I am so happy I didn't read any spoilers about this movie. From the get go I was looking at Liam Neeson and thinking. "Man, I wish he was Ra's al Ghul because he so reminded of Ra's from Batman: TAS.

    Last but not least I had my reservations about the new Batmobile like any hardcore Batman fan had. But wow I was impressed. I can't wait to see the look of the Batjet or Batboat if they use them in one of the next films.
     
  9. Beyond Batman

    Beyond Batman The Tomorrow Knight

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    Just got back from the midnight showing. TWO THUMBS WAAAYYYYY UP! As the ending credits rolled, someone yelled, "NOW THAT'S BATMAN!!!" I agree whole heartedly!!! I need to sleep now, but I'll be back for more.

    This movie was everything I expected it to be... and then some. Batman fans... you won't be disappointed.
     
  10. TheHuntressDiana

    TheHuntressDiana Wonder Cutie

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    I'm just going to C/P my thoughts from the previous thread . . .


    We finally get to see the Wayne's before the fateful night in the alley and even though it's a relatively small glimpse it's quite the interesting one and packs a nice look into their lives.

    Christian Bale was unbelieveable! I haven't seen any film with him before so maybe I'm a bit naïve when it comes to what he can do, but he sure as hell impressed me. The fear and the pain that he conveys comes across quite well and to see him done the cape and cowl is very impressive. He's a mix of Michael Keaton & Kevin Conroy's Bruce Wayne, and almost all of Kevin Conroy's Batman. Yes, I know Conroy is just the voice, but he's what made Batman, Batman and somehow, Bale manages to do just that when he's behind the mask and there are times where it's scary as hell.

    Katie Holmes as Rachel Dawes was "okay" but I definately wasn't impressed or underwhelmed.

    I enjoyed Michael Cane as Alfred and he had a bit more of the B:TAS in him than the previous Alfred from the movies. It was quite nice to see Alfred chastise Bruce for his "fun" a few times.

    Morgan Freeman as Fox was fantastic. I really, really, really enjoyed seeing him and look forward to seeing more of him in the coming films.

    Ken Watanabe was wasted as Ra's Al Ghul in my opinion. His screen time was incredibly short and totally "fluff." It was very disappointing. Very.

    Gary Oldman was Gordon was an interesting choice. He's a Sargent in this movie, and moves up to Lieutenant by the end of the movie. You get to see a very quick glimpse of his family life (wife and child) and how he's very slightly connected with Bruce via the death of the Wayne's.

    Liam Neeson as Ducard was interesting. I'm no expert on Ducard from the comics but a friend gave me a quick low-down and sufice it to say, he doesn't seem to share much with that Ducard but he's still an interesting character . . . right up to the very end which is surprising as hell. And, it must be the SW fan in me, but seeing Ducard teach Bruce just made me think of Qui-Gon Jinn. All the things he says to Bruce during their training on the ice (before they begin to fight) just screams Qui-Gon! It was insane. But, towards the end of the movie, you'll see that his Ducard is no Jedi but more like a Sith bent on cleansing the Earth of all the foul things . . . just like Ra's Al Ghul. Man, I never saw that one coming!

    I didn't know who Cillian Murphy was but he was an okay Scarecrow/Jonathan Crane. There were a few times, via camera angles, that I thought he'd make a great Joker but then changed my mind as the movie progressed.

    It was a surprize to see Rutger Hauer in the movie but he played his part well. Too bad he didn't get the memo at the end. :D

    The visuals in the movie are fantastic, as are the themes that are carried throughout. There were quite a few times where I just kind of went, "Ohhh!" at how they handled the "Fear Toxin" as seen through the eyes of the vicitms and when Crane sees Batman through the Toxin it's quite gruesome (almost reminds me of the Uruk-hai from LOTR).

    The 1st chase scene through Gotham was quite good and turned out better than I thought, if just a wee bit "over the top" with the number of vehicles that fliped over. But over all, it was pretty good.

    The next to last scene, with Batman going after Ra's Al Ghul to stop his plan came out beautifully. It reminded me of the No Man's Land arc where they cut off the island from the rest of Gotham. All the inmates from Arkham have been set free and the Toxin is filling the air... The Police Chief says to Gordon, "The Riot Squad is there with you already, there's no one left to help you now," and then you see the Batmobile race across and jump the river and into the mess and end up just feet from Gordon. It was nicely done.

    Overall, the film was great. I definately want to see it again with my fellow Batman fan. They very nicely set up the next movie with a new baddie who likes to leave his calling card at the scene . . . can't wait for the Joker! :anime:
     
  11. RayChuang

    RayChuang Active Member

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    We have a big hit on our hands.

    From all the descriptions of everyone who's seen the movie so far, we may have out second big hit of the summer movie season. :D

    It appears the people who did this film actually bothered to read the original Batman comics from the late 1930's and have successfully translated the feel of those stories to the new movie. :cool:
     
  12. JLfan4life

    JLfan4life Member

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    Now THAT'S how Batman should be done!!!!!!!!!!!

    I went to the midnight showing last night and I was speechless...that movie was simply AWESOME.

    I loved it!!! All the characters were great!! Bale did a great job. There were alot of comic book references in this one...no campy crap!!! and the ending...OMG!!! the Joker's coming back!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: I'll just repeat what everyone else has said, including the ones in the theatre, "THAT'S HOW YOU DO A BATMAN MOVIE!!!" I'm going back again tonight. I'm definitely getting this DVD when it comes out. Batman Begins is now my favorite comic book movie!!!!

    5 stars definitely!!!!!!!!
     
  13. TimTwoFace

    TimTwoFace Mod, and Minotaur Bait
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    I'm at work so I can't do my full review at the moment, but let's just sum it up this way...

    Best Batman movie ever. (And that includes the excellent animated versions.)

    Hell, it's the best superhero movie to date, too - take that, you campy and cruddy SPIDER-MAN 2. :p

    It's definitely worth watching, and I intend to go back this weekend with my bro. Midnight showings rock!

    -Tim

    PS - I only had or three minor quibbles with the film - that's pretty good as far as I see it. 5 stars!
     
  14. GregX

    GregX Active Member

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    Because he wasn't Ra's al Ghul. Liam Neeson was. Watanabe was probably Ubu or someone like that.
     
  15. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    yes! "im batman." the line i thought would not be in this movie, was!!! i'm definately going to see this again. nothing really more can be said except that this movie was the "perfect" batman movie. i just was dissapointed at certain "little" things. stuff like wayne manor burning down, i dont think that was really appropriate. another dissapointment was that there was no teaser for superman returns, although that was never confirmed. on a plus side though, i was impressed with the film score. i thought i would be a little dissapointed with it since we are all familiar with danny elfman's theme.

    i also found it some what ironic and amusing that morgan edge from smallville was running wayne enterprises.
     
    #15 rggkjg1, Jun 15, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2005
  16. sdp

    sdp miscrave

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    After the F4 trailer someone yelled "YEAH" and the DC fanboy in me yelled "MARVEL SUCKS" people gigled. :anime:
     
  17. GregX

    GregX Active Member

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    Marvel doesn't suck. That being said, the Fantastic Four do suck.

    But DC has Superman who sucks just as much, if not more. So it balances out.
     
  18. TheHuntressDiana

    TheHuntressDiana Wonder Cutie

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    Yes, I know he wasn't Ra's (I say so later down when I talk about Neeson) . . . but it still felt like a waste of someone's talent like Watanabe.
     
  19. Silly McGooses

    Silly McGooses Active Member

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    tomorrow im going to be on the edge of my seat all day waiting for day one's box office returns to come in. i really want it to do well but i'm not too sure it will.:sad:
     
  20. BeastBoyWonder

    BeastBoyWonder Teen Titans Go!

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    The theater that I was at was packed, and I heard the theater across town was pretty full too. Then again, its a college town so that might skew things.
     
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