1. We are looking for a volunteer to help out with entering the DC and Marvel comics solicitations. If you are interested, please contact Harley.
    Dismiss Notice

"Batman and Harley Quinn" Animated Release Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The DC Comics Animation Forum' started by James Harvey, Aug 15, 2017.

?

Discuss "Batman and Harley Quinn" and leave a rating!

  1. *****

    21.4%
  2. ****1/2

    7.1%
  3. ****

    21.4%
  4. ***1/2

    14.3%
  5. ***

    14.3%
  6. **1/2

    7.1%
  7. **

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. *1/2

    7.1%
  9. *

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. I've Got a Batman in my Basement

    7.1%
  1. Hanshotfirst1138

    Hanshotfirst1138 Singing drunken lullabies

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    15,133
    Likes Received:
    17
    Well, after begging for the return of the DCAU for over a decade, this was disappointing. God, I miss Andrea Romano. Rauch, and I like TBBT, was frankly annoying. Even Conroy sounded a little ill-at-ease. It wasn't terrible, just unbelievably lightweight. I get that it was aiming for a lighter tone, but it was just disposable. Seeing Swamp Thing was cool, but obviously pointless. At the end of the day, it wasn't bad, just disappointing. Not quite sure why the TNBA designs were intermixed with the BTAS ones, but only like four people on Earth would notice that.
     
  2. Alph

    Alph Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,931
    Likes Received:
    3
    Harley was a doctor, though. She's always been smart, the times when she acts dumb have always been part of her clown act.

    Well, RotJ has to take place at least after JL. Personally I just assume Tim is older than he seems in the movie. Some people get hit by puberty slower than others.
     
  3. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Messages:
    30,414
    Likes Received:
    3,175
    In a recent tweet, Krieg did characterize the movie's continuity as 'DCAU adjacent'. If that helps.
     
  4. ShadowBeast

    ShadowBeast Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,909
    Likes Received:
    299
    That was before Joker got to her. The way Harley was during BTAS was the after effect. A delusion that the man she fell in love with was an innocent soul being judged harshly. The way Harley acted in the film felt off from the BTAS version. Still entertaining though.

    What does that mean???
     
  5. Alph

    Alph Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,931
    Likes Received:
    3
    Doesn't this movie feature her going straight (I.E., in recovery), though? It's not like her intelligence ever actually vanished, she wasn't brain damaged, she just went insane.

    Granted, if this takes place in the DCAU then that means she relapses by the time of the RotJ flashback (but then apparently goes straight again, this time for good now that the Joker is gone, eventually leading to "Grandma Harley").
     
  6. ShadowBeast

    ShadowBeast Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,909
    Likes Received:
    299
    She still felt off in the film from the BTAS version. Though still more Harley than the version from the Arkham City/Knight games where she was reduced to a crying and depressed mess. Plus Tara Strong didn't have the energy feel with Harley's voice.

    Well the thing about Harley is, to me she's always going back and forth with the being bad and going good. It's kind of part of her character.
     
  7. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Messages:
    30,414
    Likes Received:
    3,175
    Well there is a term 'hood adjacent' that's also a new show on Comedy Central. The host lived on the outskirts of a rough neighborhood and experienced what comes with it but also experienced going to do middle class stuff like golf courses, bar mitzvahs - sort of lived between two worlds so to speak. I interpreted Krieg's use of the term as it looks the same as the Timmverse but is an AU because of slight differences.
     
  8. ShadowBeast

    ShadowBeast Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,909
    Likes Received:
    299
    Okay, that's what I thought. Thanks for clearing that up.
     
  9. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Messages:
    30,414
    Likes Received:
    3,175
    You're welcome, ShadowBeast.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  10. Dusty

    Dusty Superman.

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    3,877
    Likes Received:
    40
    Hard pass. I won't be buying this, and it's really sad as I was looking forward to the DCAU style and was hoping this would recreate the fun awesome DCAU... not turn into an animated porno wannabe. :/
     
  11. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Messages:
    30,414
    Likes Received:
    3,175
    Just watched it. An off kilter superhero comedy definitely. Took some bits from my review.

    The pacing might throw the audience off, especially with the extended song and dance from first Min and Max then Harley, but take some comfort that this isn't a conventional action movie and thus not a conventional story structure. Some of the comedy beats might also throw you off, but as they say - 'drama is easy, comedy is hard'. Some jokes might land. Some might not. Some might offend. Same sentiment with the singing.

    On the surface, "Batman and Harley Quinn" has the trappings of an over the top, raunchy comedy. "48 Hours" meets "Rush Hour" meets "Dude, Where's My Car?". Something like that. In a certain light, it's even got a bit of Who Framed Roger Rabbit. An unlikely team of polar opposites in a race against time to stop the bad guys sprinkled with innuendo, sexuality, and a fart joke. But on a subliminal level, the movie is more akin to Bruce Timm deconstructing the past 25 years of his body of work and reaching back to the farcical fantasy sitcoms of the 60's - "I Love Lucy", "Bewitched" and "I Dream of Jeannie" - and using Harley as the woman of great power to cause some upheaval and subvert the traditional Dynamic Duo dynamic that's lasted fine on it's own for decades and decades. Heck, even the opening title sequence looks like the twisted stepsister of the "Bewitched" and "I Dream of Jeannie" titles. You can look at Harley trying to live a normal life as dulling herself with medication and working at a place that is the very definition of objectification but as the movie goes on, it's quite apparent she's always meant to be a force of nature. Or instead of punching his way out of a bar like an episode of "Bonanza" or any John Wayne movie, Batman makes a freaky grin and the camera pans out to the exterior of the bar then cue the totally unexpected sound FX that would never appear on an episode of the Batman '66 television series. The extended fight is never seen. The final battle isn't won by the superior combatant nor the right weapon nor a last minute intellectual brainstorm by the unstoppable Batman. Not even the magical deus ex machina, here in the form of Swamp Thing, does squat. Instead, it's little ol' Harley batting her eyes, a la Merrie Melodies, at Poison Ivy and by pointing out the obvious about Floronic Man. Plants and fire don't mix. And like Ricky Ricardo, or Darrin Stephens or Tony Nelson, Batman and Robin gives in and can't help but be smitten with Harley in the end.

    So the canon. I'm going to be on the side it's a parallel universe.
    • Harley is no stranger to trying to reform. The movie definitely has the DNA of episodes like "Harlequinade" and "Harley's Holiday".
    • Harley even references Nightwing's mullet from The New Batman Adventures.
    • But this Batman looks like the one from The New Batman Adventures and he's driving the Batmobile from Batman: The Animated Series! Yes, we've seen odd mixes of designs before in canon stories like Static Shock's "The Big Leagues" where we saw a The New Batman Adventures designed Batman fighting a Return of the Joker flashback/Justice League designed Joker. Canon survived.
    • But we do know the canon never had a Powergirl nor did it ever have a Hal Jordan that became Green Lantern. Yet, they're referenced in Superbabes in the form of a waitress and wall decoration. The closest we got to Powergirl was Cadmus clone Galatea and to Hal, we got to see briefly when Chronos broke time in "The Once and Future Thing" but neither of which was made public. Sure, Powergirl could have appeared after Justice League Unlimited but it seemed pretty apparent Hal stayed a test pilot in this canon.
    • Then you have Nightwing. Working with Batman. Sure, he did to a degree in The New Batman Adventures but didn't he move to Bludhaven already? Well, sure. But as "Grudge Match" revealed, like in the comics, not that far from Gotham. And maybe, just maybe, Dick Grayson matured a little and buried as much of the hatchet as he could with Batman.
    • None of those heroes Booster Gold mentioned were on members of the JLU! Well, they could joined after the show ended?
    • Would Harley go through all this just to regress and help the Joker torture Tim Drake in that Return of the Joker flashback? Shrug.
    • Would Batman really smile?
    • Catwoman never had henchmen in this canon.
    • How can Captain Clown and Randa Duane be around and dancing so fluidly?!
    • We've been to parallel universes before that look like the Timmverse style and they were loads of fun and fisticuffs. Justice Guild. Justice Lords. Brainiac Atta--- eh. But I'm open minded to conclude a version of this movie does happen in the Timmverse canon in the same way we know a version of the "Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths" happens in the canon and was called "World's Collide".
    Truly, a highlight of the movie was getting to hear Kevin Conroy and Loren Lester roll off each other again as the Dynamic Duo after 20 or so years have passed. If you would told me we'd be hearing Adam West and Burt Ward then Kevin Conroy and Loren Lester reunited again, I'd have thought you took one too many dips in a Lazarus Pit. Harley, herself, has proven to be a malleable character over the past 20 years as she debuted in the comics and surged in popularity. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to listen to a Harley with a Jersey accent. Out of the main cast, I wasn't feeling Paget Brewster and Kevin Michael Richardson as Poison Ivy and Floronic Man respectively, but the again they didn't have as much screen time as the rest of the cast to develop and find their voices. But on the other hand, they were for the most part straight up villains and more constrained to the story.

    Ever since the DC Universe line started, I don't think any convention panel got a past a "Will you make another Timmverse" movie kind of question. But we knew from the get-go that company executives wanted to brand the DC Universe movies and not revisit the past right away. Many years later, "Justice League: Gods and Monsters" certainly was the start of that door creaking back open with the design aesthetic of Bruce Timm and Shane Glines but "Batman and Harley Quinn" really kicks that door down. The desire is there among the cast and crew to revisit things but it will probably come down to sales that much we know. And we definitely know there could be boxes of ideas, treatments, outlines, and scripts that were never made. We've seen that infamous Catwoman Beyond movie idea grafted onto Justice League Unlimited's "Epilogue" or Batman: The Brave and The Bold salvaging that Batman Anime pitch by using Alpha Red in a Batman of Zur-En-Arrh episode or another unused movie idea in "Bold Beginnings!" with superheroes retelling old cases they had with Batman. And we know every year at a comic convention, a fan asks about Batman Beyond then the crew reaffirms it's been talked about. Or maybe Bruce Timm finally has a strong pitch for that infamous Nocturna idea...

    "Batman and Harley Quinn" punctuates a year of strong releases that begins to broach and experiment with genre and structure. "Justice League Dark" delved into horror and supernatural. "Teen Titans: The Judas Contract" continued to explore the teenage angst. "Batman and Harley Quinn" delves into comedy and farce, throwing the classic structure of action, adventure, drama and interpersonal dynamics we've come to know and expect... into an extended spin cycle. The movie may take some or a lot of fans out of their comfort zones, but I think it's more important for the future of the movie line that we get new things instead of the same old thing for the next 10 years. Progress in small steps. I give it a 3.5 out of 5
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Pfeiffer-Pfan

    Pfeiffer-Pfan Makin' Whoopee!

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,725
    Likes Received:
    246
    I'm seeing a lot of people online talking about how cheap the animation on these DTV's have been looking the past few years, with Batman and Harley Quinn being a particular standout. They couldn't even re-take the error with Batman's cape when he is talking to Harley at the Batmobile.

    I guess there's a reason we are 30 movies deep with these DTV's. WB knows how to keep the budgets tight.

    I hope sales are significant on this one if only for two reasons. It allows us to get more Timm-designed (although better animated) movies and it would add to the notion that a revival (in whatever form) of the DCAU is something worth exploring.

    However, in less than two weeks of release, the movie isn't even in the top 150 movies on either the US or UK iTunes. Granted, I think WB's marketing for these DTV's are quite weak, but still, surely it should be having more longevity than that.
     
  13. ShadowBeast

    ShadowBeast Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,909
    Likes Received:
    299
    Actually Elongated man was in JLU. He first spoke in "The Greatest Story Ever Told", and spoke in two other episodes, and cameod in a bunch of others. But the other heroes Booster mentioned could've been in the Justice League all along and were just not shown.

    He did laugh once. It scared Harley.

    I think Timm only intended to just have fun with this movie.

    I don't think I've ever seen this movie advertised on TV at all.
     
  14. SweetShop209

    SweetShop209 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,035
    Likes Received:
    331
    Regarding advertising, the only DC animated movies you'd see advertised on TV would be the family friendly movies, like "Lego DC Superhero Girls: Brain Drain". I've seen plenty of advertisements for it on Nickelodeon and Boomerang. Contrast with more adult oriented movies like this, where it and its advertising can't exactly be shown on those channels like Cartoon Network due to the differences in demographics. Maybe it has TV advertisements, but it's either on channels you have to buy or they're late at night
     
  15. Pfeiffer-Pfan

    Pfeiffer-Pfan Makin' Whoopee!

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,725
    Likes Received:
    246
    I can think of a handful of channels that ads for Batman and Harley Quinn could and should have been shown on here in the UK (FOX, ITV2, Sky 1, main terrestrial channels). Yes, it would need to be shown post 8PM, but at least that would encourage the non-converted to seek it out, indicating that it is not in fact for children. Perhaps show it during popular repeats of Family Guy/American Dad! and try to develop that audience.

    WB seem to think an all purpose 2 minute trailer, a press release and a few stills on twitter is enough for these DTV's. I think for the most part these DTV's tend to come and go these days. They crank out three a year (of varying quality) and give little attention to promotion.

    Like I said, perhaps that's why the line has lasted 10 years. Limited budget, limited promo, small profit (at times).
     
  16. BigFatHairyDeal

    BigFatHairyDeal Defender of the Universe

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    4,332
    Likes Received:
    77
    It's possible that they don't market these more because they're content with the revenue they get with the minimal advertising.

    Back in 2007 when this line of movies was originally announced, they talked about how their target audience is largely comic book fans, a group you don't have to do heavy advertising to. Just toss out some solicits and have your people do a few interviews with comic sites, and word of mouth spreads pretty quickly. I'm not sure an additional $1 (or $1,000, to use more meaningful numbers) spent on advertising would lead to an additional $1 (or $1,000) of revenue. On the digital download side, the vendors probably can data mine user preferences and advertise to viewers who don't keep up with release dates.

    When it comes to DC stuff, I don't like to give WB credit for knowing its audience, but it's possible they know how to maximize their returns without spending serious money on advertising.
     
  17. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Messages:
    30,414
    Likes Received:
    3,175
    Got me there.

    It's been advertised. I've seen it a bunch of times this past week. I don't remember the channel though.
     
  18. Otaku-sempai

    Otaku-sempai Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    364
    Maybe on SyFy (or however they're spelling it this week).
     
  19. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Messages:
    30,414
    Likes Received:
    3,175
    Maybe Adult Swim or AMC. Things were started to blend together as I typed up a review of the movie.
     
  20. Dusty

    Dusty Superman.

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    3,877
    Likes Received:
    40
    Okay so question Yojimbi... In your opinion, are the Sexual scenes explicit or more or less just there/eluded to? Do they use sounds or the silhouette type movement of what sex involves... (that most films use to show sex occurred?) Or is it just a scene where you know what occurred without showing or saying too much. Sorry it's a random question, and I know other's view on that particular type of content is different but I'm just curious.
    I may seem like a prude but the thing I find movies in any genre that isn't needed is explicit sexual content. (Just my own personal view) I really wanted to see this but the sexual scenes are what hold me back. I don't care about swearing or violence, (I see and experience enough of that in real life.) But sex to me is still a subject that needs to be left off the big screen. Passion and kissing are one thing but intimacy on that level is something I find unnecessary for effectively moving a storyline or plot.

    Kallum.
     

Share This Page

  • Find Toonzone on Facebook

  • Toonzone News

  • Site Updates

    Upcoming Premieres

  • Toonzone Fan Sites


Tac Anti Spam from Surrey Forum