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Discussion in 'The DC Comics Animation Forum' started by Storm, Jul 30, 2002.
Bruce and barbara were a couple after TNBA. and I think bruce should of marry barbara.
Yuck. This is what happens to impressionable minds. In serious movies and graphic novels and such, this kind of subject matter is appropriate, as long as it is fully dealt with. As I said, I think it actually does fit the characters to have a dysfunctional relationship (and lets face it; how functional are any of Bruce's relationships?). But to just leave it implied, without the appropriate moral objections from other characters makes it too easy to just absorb on a superficial level (much like JL2K has).
As repellent as it seems to many of you (and if you were used to the comics, it does seem a little weird) it certainly was the feeling I got from TNBA - that something was brewing.
I happily see BB as canon, as much as TNBA to BTAS etc. To me this is another example of why. It just makes the thing feel so real.
Bruce probably sees the elements in her that he has lost in himself, a more vibrant and attractive personality - plus she is pretty. Barbara probably sees elements in him which she identifies with her father - and they say we go out with characters based on our parents...
I think a mixture of ROTJ and Bruce's obsession doomed the romance - that and the difference in years. I got the impression Bruce shut her out as much as Tim after ROTJ and went solo. Interesting he still has her Batsuit in the cave - did she have a choice in leaving it....?
I've always found that Bruce and Barbara easily could have been a couple, but never meant for each other like Dick and Barbara are. Barbara is younger by Bruce, he's the tall dark and mysterious older man....who happens to be a billionaire. Plus he's got this secret which she's in on. He's like the ulitmate dream man fantasy. She basically had a crush on him, though I think it was with Batman that she had the original crush on, then later Bruce as well. I think she has feelings for him, obviously loves him. But as far as BTAS, TNBA and the comics go, that love differs from the love between her and Dick. Though concerning BB, since Dick has only been mentioned and never shown *growls*, I still find that though Barbara could have remained with Bruce, their love wasn't true love, just a big crush, and their growing differences drew them apart.
The whole Bruce/ Barb thing just disturbs me. I mean, it should be Dick and Barb (IMO) and she and Bruce as a couple destroyed Dick and Bruces relationship.That is just wrong! Dick and Alfred were the first to really be a part of Bruces life, and they are the closest to him. I liked ROTJ, but Batman Beyond is a future that I wouldn't want for BTAS, and all the Bruce and Barb stuff is one of the biggest reasons.
I like this part of the animated Batman, not only does it give it a slightly more adult edge, but it's good to see them have the guts to do something like this, and so convincingly to boot.
I don't think it's "Jerry Springer"-inspired at all. Remember, we are only seeing glimpses of lives. This obviously brewed for a while, I believe, starting when Dick left during "Lost Years". He basically cut his relationship with Barbara when it was at a peak, and they didn't hear about him for so long. Even though I do believe Babs and Dick are "meant to be", you can see how she would have been quite heartbroken by this. For a while, until Robin II came along, these two were alone in crimefighting, partners, and I guess it just grew from there.
[color=00FFFF]I can see where all of this is going. And I think where it will lead (if BB or BTAS or TNBSA or whatever was ever continued) is Bruce and Barb having a short relationship. And I can tell because it's what the general consensus of fans DON'T want. Hehehe. Hey, that's life though.
I'm sure there was a reason behind it on both of their parts, while at the same time not TRULY being "love" for either of them.
But one thing I DID catch after watching OUT OF THE PAST again was Barb's picture was the last one Bruce had up as Talia came in. And Talia's line was "I know you loved her..." and then commented on why he didn't save a picture of her too. 'I know YOU LOVED HER??' Wowsers. Then again, Talia didn't fully understand what and who Bruce is, so maybe she didn't know the ENTIRE story. Still, that shows Bruce and Barb must have had something at least.
**But the strongest bond in any Batman story was always the one shared between Dick and Bruce (even after Dick was forced to leave it was still there, just not dominant). And no matter what the outcome or origin of this Bruce and Barb thing is, I don't want it to go back on that.
I think the issue with Dick would have had little to do with the Barb/Bruce thing.
I think this is a great character development and one that I don't think we should all stand and judge.
Is Bruce a 'dirty old man'? Well let's not get this out of scale here. There is a big age gap, but Barbara as a character is pretty mature for age (or any age) and Bruce isn't meant to be that old pre BB. Late twenties is where I would imagine he is meant to be. That's not dirty old man in my book. Especially as I can't see him intentionally trying to seduce her - this whole thing would have been off the cuff.
So it goes against the Dick/Barb... well boo hoo . As NW said, that's life. Things hadn't worked out on that scene and if there was a romance, I don't think Bruce especially would have entertained the idea if his ex partner had any issues.
The problems after TNBA will have stemmed from the ROTJ flashbacks and not any romances.
I like Bruce, I like Barbara and I like Dick (eep, that sounds wrong!!!) - so I have no problem with these developments, in fact it makes the characters and the backgrounds to BB even richer.
i was thinking that wasn't the only reason. bruce and dick never really saw eye-to-eye. even though at the end of "old wounds", it would appear that batman and dick were all right with each other, but i'm sure they would get into arguements like old times.
Batman & Batgirl Poll
I have no problem with this. It's only natural that with Batman and Batgirl working side by side for so long, that they would eventualy get feelings for each other. Heck, I'd love to see this happen in the animated comics. I know there's no chance this would happen in the mainstream books, but I'd like to see this tackled in the animated books - especially if Jason Hall was doing it (he got it right in B:GA #51). I can see it working. It only makes sense for these two to be driven togethor, whether Nightwing stayed or left. There are sparks still there between Barbara and Dick, but I think when they split in 'Old Wounds', that was it. Hey may have returned back to Gotham, but he is still not back to trusting Bruce and Barbrar completely after the events of 'Old Wounds' I'd love to see the animated comics tackle this plot. Hell, I'd kill to see a new DTV with this as a main subplot. There is so much potential for more stories here, especially with this, and I'd love to see it.
I thought I'd add a fun poll to this as well, to stir up the conversation a bit more! ENJOY!
I'd also like to see how Barbara got together with Sam Young (her husband in Batman Beyond). It's just something I've been curious about.
Anyway, I beleve that Barbara and Dick's relationship was, as Barbara said, "just puppy love". I was suprised when her romantic relationship with Bruce was brought up in Batman Beyond, but when I thought about it, it made a lot of sense that they would develop feelings for each other. Unfortunately, it was also obvious that the relationship would fail.
I believe that Sam is the right guy for her because she seemed happy with him. I guess she likes guys who need to be saved by her.
-Barbara: "OK, honey, you go hide under the table while I pull out my gun and chase the mean old assasian and/or radical mad-bomber away from you"
I have the feeling we're a bit shocked by the idea of this relationship because of the designs of the TNBA : Barbara doesn't looks like a teenager in it but almost like a child, and Bruce is very, very huge.
Try imagining the relationship with the old designs : it makes a lot more sense, it "flows" differently... especially since Bruce is a lot more, well, human in the old series : he smiles, he's sometimes ironic, he's still alive. Whereas in TNBA he's so cold and grim, we think nothing good can come out of it for Barbara.
And as for the difference of age, seeing both of them being old in Batman Beyond pretty much mocks prude reactions toward that.
Myself, I find it interesting, and most of all logical. They share so much... and they're probably the only ones in Gotham that can really understand each other (unlike, say, Dana/Terry). And since Dick rejected her numerous times in TNBA...
Wow this thread is doing well. As the thread starter I was surprise by the poll. LOL. Thanks Jim for making the poll. To bad that i can't vote my computer is acting funny everytime I try to vote on a TZ poll.
Where are all the Nightwing fans???
LOL! I voted Bruce just to be contrary and there were already 4 other votes and none for Dick!!
Anyway, I'm glad to hear that most people don't see it being fundamentally wrong that they got together. I think it would be a natural progression and there is not that big of an age difference, maybe 10-15 years. I don't see them being a long-term, married with kids kind of couple, but at least to offer each other a little support and companionship, I think it's all right. But like I said before there is still a sadness involved with it too, just considering the whole Dick element and Bruce's lack of ability to commit to another human being to the exclusion of his 'mission.'
Re: Where are all the Nightwing fans???
I think people are feeling sorry for Bruce. Nice girl like Barbara, do him some good. Dick's young and fun, the world is his oyster - perhaps that's the reason for the positive Bruce/Barb reaction.
As for their age, I guess about a ten year age gap, which isn't that massive and ties in nicely with BB. Not impossible, age difference there...
My thoughts on the Bruce-Barbara relationship were that Batman Beyond is considered by me to be Elseworlds. It's a possible future. Sure, I can see it happening and everything. It's perfectly logical that Barbara, after years of having a crush on Bruce, would finally act on it. And after all the years of losing girlfriends because he couldn't tell them his identity, maybe Bruce thought it would work, too.
Still, my opinion remains that Barb should be with Dick in the end. Since we never got to see what the results would have been, like we did in Batman Beyond, who knows what might have happened? They might have ended up more bitter than Bruce and Barb were in BB and hated each others' guts. On the other hand, they could've moved to Costa Rica and had 8 kids, a cat, a dog, and a two car garage and lived happily ever after? Who knows?
I have always found it funny (and in a silly way, kind of hurtful!! ) that people see Batman Beyond as an Elswhere. Originally I saw it as that - as the episodes I saw seemed to avoid referencing the original series, but then with such explicit references to the old Batman cartoons, the situation with Mr Freeze, ROTJ etc, I accepted it as continuation as the series itself identifies with the past circumstances of the previous cartoon. Very specifically. So to the idea of 'Elswhere', the more inflexible side of me says, 'no, this is as relevant to the BTAS mythos as any of the shows (with the exception of Zeta - joking) and that people just don't like to face what the creators offer. The other side of me says 'Get a life SJJ old pal, let people believe what they want and stop going off topic...'
No kidding! He looks like he'd rather be in a life-threatening situation with a super-villain than on a boat with a gorgeous red-head. What's wrong with this guy?
yeah, batman started out as a flawed anti-hero and they've turned into a mopey superman. him being in a slightly inappropriate relationship with Barbara fixes that.
I was going to vote for Babs and Dick, but he's becoming almost as fickle as Oliver Queen.
I don't think that there is anything wrong with reviving an old thread as long as one has something relevant to say about it.