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"Arrow" Season Two Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by The Penguin, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Hey psycho Huntress, still kinda psycho I see :p.

    At least dealing with the irony of not being the one to kill her father, and realizing that his death won't make up for the emptiness of losing her fiancee, will potentially lead Helena to become a better person down the line. At least Oliver still believes in her. But seriously, taking hostages? For shame :mad:.

    The opening scene also had "Hugo Manheim," so I wonder how he might be related to Bruno Manheim from the comics?

    I also liked how Oliver's hypocrisy in regards to being willing to kill Slade, but not Huntress, was brought up. I wonder if Oliver's true journey as a hero this season will be complete when he realizes that, as a superhero, he can't kill anyone no matter how much he may want to or how powerful they may be? And that may lead him to finally becoming Green Arrow :).

    I'm not sure about Sara. Despite the fact that she was able to hold back against killing Huntress, which was only because of Laurel's intervention, I still think she's a hair breadths away from doing something in the heat of the moment that will have dire consequences. Arrow has gotten better about not killing, even when it involves people he cares about, but I don't think the same can be said for Sara just yet.

    While I think Oliver made a good point about why Roy should distance himself from Thea, especially with that scene where Roy manhandles one of the patrons, he really went about breaking up with her pretty badly. Only time will tell if not having Thea around will make Roy's temperament better, or worse :(.

    Roy finally get called Speedy, though not intentionally. I got a good laugh at how Roy just assumed it was his new Superhero codename :D.

    So with Speedy out, I guess that just leaves Red Arrow and Arsenal for Roy's superhero identity ;).

    Laurel using blackmail to finally get her job back was interesting, and while it's nice to see Laurel take initiative, I'm not sure how I feel about this dark turn for her character. Or maybe, that's what might make Laurel the "Black Canary" compared to Sara's "Canary?"

    So with Thea kidnapped, and Team Arrow taking on Slade in the preview, I wonder if we'll finally be getting a proper Arrow vs. Deathstroke fight, or alternatively, a proper fight with the real Brother Blood?
     
  2. Nightwing26

    Nightwing26 Active Member

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    Thanks for all that, I missed a lot of that stuff. I do have to say though, I really don't see any Bat-related characters showing up simply because Fox currently has Gotham up and coming (and I'm not really sure how it works, but won't they have a contract with WB that gives them the TV rights to the characters for the next little while?). However, characters like Nightwing and Harley Quinn can be exceptions as they can be associated with other properties not connected to the Bat-mythos, and while I'm not saying either will make full appearances, I guess I really don't see
    showing up.

    Also, I read some articles that said that while they were planning for episode 20 to work the back door pilot to The Flash, we all know that this has changed, and now The Flash is receiving his own pilot. However, it turns out episode 19 of Arrow will feature two characters of the main cast from The Flash (which is possible since their sets are located right next to each other), instead of Barry himself, who is still in a coma and will stay like that until his pilot.

    So I guess you can add in that last tidbit to your list! :D
     
  3. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Bringer of the Light

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    There's been a ton of speculation for Birds of Prey, though the show runners have this birds of prey will be there spin on it, not necessarily a homage to the original. That's in part why its hard to believe we'll see Thea die because she might be earmarked to be their archer.

    However:

    Yea I heard about
     
  4. purplehairedwonder

    purplehairedwonder No woman should suffer at the hands of men
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    I'm intrigued by the prospect of Laurel potentially going dark. Of course, then my fear is that it will somehow lead to Sara's death (which is a big pile of DNW for me because I love, love, love Sara) and in penance, Laurel will take up the Canary mantle. Sara is such a wonderful character, and I want more of her developing friendship with Felicity.

    I also rolled my eyes a bit at the whole stay away from Thea thing because really, "tough guys" need to stop making decisions about what is best for women when we're capable of making our own decisions, thank you very much. Alas, it's a trope that comes with the genre.

    Also cracked up when Felicity told Sara she should kick Huntress' ass and Diggle had the most amazing nod in response. And Felicity spinning in her chair while talking about frat boys <3
     
  5. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Bringer of the Light

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    The prevailing wisdom suggests the highest candidates to die this season is Moria, Laurel or Sara.

    The thing we have to keep in mind however, is that Birds of Prey (the series) is developing out of this one. So I think any decisions of who is going to be killed off by the end of the season is going to stem from that direction.

    After a fashion, I think team Arrow is going to consist of Ollie, Roy, Laurel and possibly Thea. That's not to suggest that I think Sara is going to die, but rather her, Helena and Felicity as well as MAYBE Barbra Gordon will be the Birds of Prey.

    My logic for the way team Arrow is going to look is that as Sara moves on, Ollie will restart his relationship with Laurel; after she discovers he's Green Arrow --- and to some degree she'll end up filling Felicity's role.

    So, if I'm right about these forecasts, the only character that could die is Moria.

    I guess just for sake of full disclosure, I should note that the Birds of Prey series is still only a pipe dream and there's no "green lights" on it just yet, but it *IS* clear the show runners are developing with that intent in mind.
     
  6. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Not that I disagree that women should make their own decisions, but when it comes to a point that the only way for her to make a proper and informed decision is to reveal various secrets to her, I can at least understand why Roy would feel the need to push Thea away. Well, as badly as he did it, because otherwise she would never have left him alone without him having to tell her what's going on, and he could have potentially hurt her by then. But you're right, it is pretty much a trope that inherently comes with the superhero genre :sweat:.
     
  7. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Bringer of the Light

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    I want to throw on an alternative view of how I took this whole interaction:

    When Ollie got back to town he purposely kept Laurel at arms length knowing her being in his life would be too dangerous.

    I saw this whole seen play out in a similar fashion: Ollie was asking Roy to stay away from Thea for the same reason. Inside the context of that, I get the feeling that Ollie had thought being with her was helping to keep him grounded; but now that grounding has exceeded the danger.
     
  8. purplehairedwonder

    purplehairedwonder No woman should suffer at the hands of men
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    Even if the hero thinks he's being noble, it's an old-fashioned attitude. And it's also disempowering for the woman in that it takes her agency in the relationship away. This show is full of strong women, and I hate seeing their agency stripped away in misguided attempts at protecting them. They're in no more danger knowing Oliver's or Roy's secret than not knowing, as Thea's abduction clearly shows. Still, it's a genre thing so it comes with the territory.

    Plus, the whole "I love you so we can't be together" trope makes zero sense anyway because it's not a couple's relationship status on Facebook that puts either party in danger; it's the hero's emotional connection to the other person. And that doesn't just disappear because he pushed said loved one away -- and any villain worth half their salt knows that. I was glad Sara called Ollie out on that.

    But Ollie was a frat boy; what can you expect? :p
     
  9. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Bringer of the Light

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    I won't deny in this case, Ollie coming clean and telling Moria and Thea about Slade Wilson is the BEST WAY to keep them safe this season. I'm letting myself believe he's simply being hard headed at this point thinking that by them not knowing, its easier to keep them safe. There's a lot of foreshadowing that a lot of people are going to learn his identity as Green Arrow probably not limited to Quetin, Moria, Thea and Laurel by the end of the season.

    Last season, there was plenty of good reasons to keep his identity as Green Arrow hidden. It worked out more then enough times to his advantage and more then enough times to help him protect his friends; but I won't deny that in some of the times it REALLY COUNTED, it did catch him off guard.

    Where Sara is concerned though, he DID try to push her away for similar reasons but quickly realized she was a better ally to keep close then push away.

    I guess its fair to point out and like you've brought up in both your posts, one thing that DOES go with Green Arrow is chivalry; that is probably one of the closest ideals you can associate with him as a character.
     
  10. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    "Deathstroke" April 2, 2014

    New episodes of Arrow are back tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

    [​IMG]
    "Deathstroke"
    Wednesday, April 2, 2014 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
    OLIVER’S WORLD STARTS TO CRUMBLE — Slade (Manu Bennett) makes his move against Oliver (Stephen Amell) and the repercussions are enormous. While Oliver scrambles to protect his family, a key player in his team starts to question Oliver’s decisions. Meanwhile, Isabel (guest star Summer Glau) makes her move to take Queen Consolidated away from Oliver.
     
  11. Wonder Woman

    Wonder Woman Well-Known Member

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    So that was definitely an excellent episode, maybe the best of the season. Roy has taken off, Thea knows who her real dad is, and now Laural knows that Oliver is Arrow. On top of that, that twist with Summer Glau's character was nice. An excellent episode that has me really excited to see where the rest of the season goes. Such a great series that really is raising the bar nearly every episode!
     
  12. gmster

    gmster Active Member

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    Awesome episode. Arrow outdoes itself again.
     
  13. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Bringer of the Light

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    That certainly moved the plot along a lot.

    It was really unclear weather Isabella was going into this series knowing Slade Wilson was her father or if she would need to discover it. We of course have the answer to that now.

    At this point, we need to question how much Thea ACTUALLY knows. We obviously know FOR SURE she knows Malcolm Merlyn is her father. I have to admit I'm a bit sad we didn't Merlyn show up in this episode but the rumor mill continues to spin we'll see him in this season. At this point, it appears he has every reason to side with Ollie (for now) if he actually does show up.

    This is going to be a total roller coaster with the Lance family. Quentin is no doubt going to find out Ollie's identity in the next episode or two, but with Laurel knowing his identity, we have to wonder if Laurel is going to "sell out" Ollie to save her father or work with Ollie to redeem him. It's been heavily suggested Quentin is playing the Jim Gordon of this series and of course, we can easily draw a ton of parallels from this, but one has to wonder if he'll still be a cop at the end of this season or not.

    The next episode is entitled "The Man Under the Hood" and it seems pretty obvious Ollie's identity is going to explode following Felicity's foreshadowing last episode "It's getting hard to keep track of who knows who Ollie is".

    Sadly, we have to wait two weeks now to see the next episode =(.
     
  14. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Bringer of the Light

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    Just to keep the convo going here, I figured I'd toss out the next couple of episode titles since we officially have all but the last episode title to think about the series progression:

    19 - The Man Under the Hood
    20 - Seeing Red
    21 - City of Blood
    22 - Streets of Fire
    23 - <Season Finale - Title Unknown>

    It's also been confirmed that Killer Frost and Vibe will be in episode 19 AND Barry will *NOT* return this season in Arrow as originally planned; so there's no need to try to dance around with wacky theories how they might be planning to pull this off anymore. Vibe will essentially fill the role Flash was to.
     
  15. accookies

    accookies Member

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    Do you think we will actually see vibe in action or will he just be a throw away character
     
  16. Nightwing26

    Nightwing26 Active Member

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    He's a main cast member on The Flash. Whether that means he'll become Vibe at any point in the series is just speculation. Of course, DC did put some emphasis on the "Flash VS Vibe" when building up the A.R.G.U.S. run Justice League of America and Trinity War in the New 52.
     
  17. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    Can someone explain to me the deal regarding Laurel and Sara. Which of the two is more like (or supposed to be) Black Canary's comic book counterpart? Sara is obviously Black Canary, BUT it says "Dinah" on Laurel's birth certificate. Did they take the comic Dinah and make her two different characters?
     
  18. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Bringer of the Light

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    Vibe is confirmed to be on "Team Flash". I suppose it is a little suspect what Vibe will be to Team Arrow, but we do know while Barry was in the coma, the other meta humans were developing their powers.

    We're assuming Vibe will have his powers and have at least some understanding how to use them. Costume and extent of powers are the biggest questions just now.

    I do find it a little odd that Flash, Vibe, Killer Frost and others have essentially become boom babies :-|

    Black Canary is a bit of a weird character in history. She debuted forever ago but never had a proper origin story. Her origin stories more recently essentially became something of a divergent origin Dinah Lance was taught by Wildcat. As time went a long and writers started to clump Wildcat in with "Original Justice Leaguers" and allowed Blackcat to be introduced as a newer character with newer leagues, they essentially decided to split the character into two characters. This tweaked Wildcat's story too much so eventually the original story became Dinah Lance who was taught by Wildcat, taught her daughter, also named Dinah Lance, how to fight.

    That's the back story I think everyone needs to understand to move forward with understanding what they are doing in Arrow. In Arrow, Dinah Lance (the original) is Sara and Laurel's mother. Dinah Lance, to the BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE isn't any sort of legendary fighter or covert killer or anything like that (though she will be a main character in The Flash, so we're bound to get a lot of potentially mind boggling stuff coming up), the most we know about her is she's an archaeologist (and this is where all the weird Doctor Who theories come into play). Where Sara, Laurel and Blackcat are concerned, they essentially kept the part (in so far, as far as we know) how Dinah Lance is the mother of the current Blackcat, but, as I stated above, the person who is traditionally was Blackcat first, isn't. Sara and Quentin are essentially brand new characters in the whole mix, though I understand Quentin, like Felicity, were very minor characters who previously had no ties to any other characters (Quentin was a detective who investigated the Justice League and Felicity was a CEO of a very small software company who always seemed to take lots of collateral damage from super heroes fighting super villains).

    The reason I think they used Laurel and Sara was to make the names and linage a lot more clear compared to "rev2" of the comic origin.

    Now why Laurel and Sara are both in the mix? That's where we get into speculation. We *DO* know The CW is planning a Birds of Prey series, but that's not greenlit yet and still very much on the planning board. It's highly likely they are establishing two potential "Black Canarys" so that when the series hits, one can stay on Arrow and the other can go to Birds of Prey. Almost a "eat the cake and have it too" sort of mentality. It was stated at Comic Con last year that Laurel would become Black Canary later then the audience expected, but sooner then it seems like it would happen. Its unclear if those plans changed with the introduction of season 2 and Sara's return (which some people suspect), but it's hard to tell.

    I hope that clears up many things Black Canary related.
     
  19. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    "The Man Under the Hood" April 16, 2014

    Slade takes things up a notch! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

    [​IMG]
    "The Man Under the Hood"
    Wednesday, April 16, 2014 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
    DEATHSTROKE HITS OLIVER AT HOME — Oliver (Stephen Amell), Canary (Caity Lotz), Diggle (David Ramsey) and Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) return to the lair and find Slade (Manu Bennett) waiting for them. An epic battle breaks out and one member of Team Arrow is sent to the hospital. Thea (Willa Holland) hits her breaking point, but just as Oliver is about to reach her, Slade intervenes and Oliver is faced with a choice – his battle with Slade or his family. Meanwhile, Laurel (Katie Cassidy) struggles with a new secret.
     
  20. Wonder Woman

    Wonder Woman Well-Known Member

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    This was a great episode and an awesome set-up for the rest of the season. It looks like the Queens will lose everything, Thea is gone, Slade has his army and Isabella is now full of the Mirakuru drug, and Roy is barely breathing. Plus I really liked how the writers handled Laural knowing Oliver's secret. It's actually a great take on the whole situation. I really can't wait to see where the next five episodes go. It looks like things are going to get really ratcheted up. I love how this show just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

    I really liked the DC shout-outs like S.T.A.R Labs and the Dr. Light mention.
     

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