"Arrow" Season Six Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by The Penguin, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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  2. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Ok, this season starts off on a bum note. Thea's in a coma. Quentin's feeling guilty about letting Black Siren off the hook, and now she's making him pay for it. Ehhh, whatever.

    And, then, there's someone who liberated Siren off the island. Hmmmm.

    Worse, Ollie's been outed as GA. Crazy Guggenheim and Wendy "All I Need is a" Mericle co-wrote it. Not exactly genius material.
     
    #2 hobbyfan, Oct 12, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  3. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Arrow “Fall-Out”

    I need more information before I can fully judge that, but my initial feeling is that the cliffhanger is actually a bit of a relief to me. Green Arrow on this show is becoming one of those heroes like Tony Stark where the secret identity is doing more harm than good. Too many people, including bad guys, know. Laurel knows, which means she had leverage on the team. Frankly, I think her revealing it is dumb because now she has no leverage whatsoever. But despite what Felicity said, no version of Laurel Lance has ever been smart or known enough to plan ahead. I think she might have actually wound up doing him a favor.

    But the reason I need proper context to judge this episode, is that just based on the next week’s previews, Oliver is still going to publicly deny it. He still thinks he can keep the identity even after all this, and being caught three times. It strikes me as ludicrous, and if the show tries to have me believe another convoluted explanation such as Diggle wearing the Arrow suit AGAIN, I’ll judge this episode harsher in hindsight. However, if this IS the beginning of the end of the secret identity, then this episode will be a good thing and a game-changer.

    The preview had the DA calling the Green Arrow a criminal. Still? I thought once Chase was implicated, Arrow’s story checked out, and he was no longer considered a criminal. If not, that’s poor planning on Oliver’s part. Yeah, it would look bad now if Oliver had publicly called off the dogs on Team Arrow and it’s later revealed he leads it. But he’d also be in far less legal trouble, and could possibly weather it depending on the current city opinion of Green Arrow. But again, I need to see more to judge.

    One thing I AM very happy to see is the return of Slade and Oliver’s brotherhood. They will never be what they once were, but I fully approve of the idea of them making peace with each other and wishing each other well. That was the thing I missed most when Slade turned crazy and evil, and even if Slade might be used less now, I prefer to see a Slade who can offer Oliver advice about fatherhood.

    Speaking if which, can I just say that Oliver is a terrible father? His last speech to William did not COMPLETELY suck, but he’s pretty much doing everything else wrong. I admit I was a bit surprised and appalled he was “The Bad Man”. But I had spent very little time with William before this so I should have been. Oliver has been there for five months. He should have known that already. The whole “Buddy” thing is so freaking condescending too, and makes him sound like the worst and lamest stepdad who ever lived. I see William cringing every time he says it, and I want to hand the kid a glove to slap Oliver with.

    It’s interesting that I’m more on the side of the emo, bratty-seeming kid, instead of the hero I’ve spent five seasons with. But just based on how William ended up where he did, I’d be weird thinking differently.

    I disagree with Quentin about something: He does NOT get how these parallel Earth things work. At all. He might not be such a wreck if he did.

    How will Oliver being on the hook for Arrowhood effects Rene’s custody hearing? I can’t help but thinking this is bad timing.

    For the record, I HATE The Inconvenient Phone Call. And the Arrowverse does it more often than most franchises. And most franchises do it A LOT. Just tell him, Quentin. Real-life people do not live their lives in 45 minute increments. And if they did, they could probably find time to say what they need to say during the commercial breaks.

    On a similar note, maybe it keeps the audience in suspense that Felicity is so freaked out that she tells Oliver to turn on the TV and nothing else. But that’s stupid. That’s done for the audience’s sake at home. A real friend, or a real coworker for that matter, would immediately pass on the information that Oliver’s identity was compromised. She’s be the one to break it. It’s not like the News Report is still guaranteed to be on when he tunes to the given channel. And the fact that the reporter starts off her sentence with the relevant information upon Oliver hitting the channel is bad writing. In reality, somebody like Felicity would want to give Oliver as much information as she personally had, as fast as possible, and THEN have him sort it out by watching the news. TV shows always do crap like that and it annoys me every single time.

    Love Alex Faust rather than Felix Faust. This means Constantine is still canon.

    We’ll see how this all shakes out. ***1/2.
     
  4. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Well, this show is being written by pea-brains. Guggenheim doesn't have a clue, and dragging Mericle along on the writing ain't helping.
     
  5. Road to Gotham

    Road to Gotham Well-Known Member

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  6. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    If it ain't broken, you don't fix it, but some idiot at WB felt the need to appease the dark-obsessed fanboys because it's the only way they'll accept Wild Dog, who marks his 30th anniversary this year.
     
  7. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    Balancing act! Tonight at 9 p.m. ET on The CW.

    [​IMG]
    "Tribute"
    Thursday, October 19, 2017 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on The CW
    Oliver tries to balance being the mayor, the Green Arrow and a father to William.
     
  8. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Arrow "Tribute"

    :Love the new main title.

    "That's not up to you." I just decided I really, REALLY like William. This kid man, he's crazy insightful. I also loved him telling Oliver that he didn't want to fight. Honestly? Oliver's advice was terrible. If you punch somebody as hard as you can in the nose, and you don't know what you are doing, you can kill them. After all of his training, how does Oliver not know that what would work for a prison yard would be potentially deadly on a playground? If Oliver has to choose between being a father and the Green Arrow, I hope he chooses Green Arrow. Because he sucks as a father.

    Only Dinah has noticed that John is unable to shoot? I cannot believe this has escaped Oliver's attention. This strikes me more as bad writing than anything else.

    Do you know what was GOOD writing? Lance and Renee deadpanning their responses to the FBI lady. Every single person in that room knew they were lying, and that they all knew that. Renee and Quentin are pretty much going through the motions, and are not going to insult this woman's intelligence by trying to make their arguments even slightly convincing. This entire thing is a farce. And I love that Lance and Renee treat it as such.

    When Anatoly puts things the way he does at the end, I agree he is a good and honorable. He's right. The rest of the Bratva would have went straight for William. And he didn't leak the photo after all. That being said, I can't help feeling Anatoly is overcompensating for being kicked out of the Bratva. He never should have been kicked out. He cut ties with Oliver precisely when he should have, and he was still punished for it? We had been led to believe Oliver was too good for that organization. I now think Anatoly is too. The difference there is that Anatoly is too dumb to know it. But just based on the fact that he STILL refused to go after William, or compromise the identity, shows that he has always been a bad fit for that dishonorable organization. I hope he gets his head together. Because he's valueing the absolute wrong things.

    Felicity is back to being cute again. Please let her and Curtis's adorable partnership be the new status quo. Last season's "Dark, Ambiguous, Felicity Smoak" was pretty much draining the life out of me. I hope this is the new normal.

    I liked the episode, but I kind of feel like the characters were a bunch of morons. That is a VERY bad feeling, but I will not deny the episode still held my interest. ***1/2.
     
  9. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Watched it On Demand due to the baseball playoffs.

    I can see why Terry Beatty's having a problem with Wild Dog's new costume. Too dark, and not what he had envisioned with Max Collins 30 years ago.

    Ollie lets Anatoly escape. No shock there, but I thought we'd seen the last of the Bratva after last season.

    Diggle taking over as Green Arrow? Bad idea, IMPO, and a cheap dig at Marvel (pun intended).

    Several years ago, they did a storyline in Iron Man where Tony Stark gave up the armor for a time, and James Rhodes took over, which would later lead to his getting his own armor as War Machine. I know Guggenheim is writing one of the X-books for Marvel these days when not working on the Berlanti-verse, but why poach their archives?

    Rene still makes good comedy relief in the office to counter-balance Quentin.

    If the photos of an unmasked Ollie in costume came from the TV station, did someone find Susan's private stock? Or is she coming back?
     
  10. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    Lethal Weapon?! Tonight at 9 p.m. ET on The CW.

    [​IMG]
    "Next of Kin"
    Thursday, October 26, 2017 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on The CW
    A rogue black ops team led by Onyx breaks into Kord Industries and steals something lethal.
     
  11. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    As I alluded to after last week's episode, the writers are cribbing an old Iron Man storyline, having Dig replace Ollie in the short-term as GA. However, that final scene bothers me.

    Onyx Adams previously had appeared in the books as an ally of both Ollie and Batman after leaving the League of Assassins. I don't think her ties to the League were noted here. There was just something off about this episode, but I can't put my finger on it.

    Seems our resident federale isn't sold on Ollie's little shadow play, and is targeting the entire team. Anyone think she's got a little dirt to her, too?
     
  12. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Arrow "Next Of Kin"

    Yay! Olicity is back! Just stay away from Laurel, Oliver. We'll all be much happier for it.

    Welcome back, properly-written Felicity Smoak! It's been a couple of seasons.

    Oliver telling William not to sweat the test was terrible advice for the reasons Felicity stated. After seeing how good she is with him, I'm amazed he waited as long as he did to ask her to move in with him. Felicity Smoak is not and never would be a destabilizing influence. If anything, things would have gone smoother with William if she had been there from the beginning.

    I really hate the last scene, and the show for it, a bit, to be honest. I was rooting against Diggle the entire episode. I wanted him to come clean, and step down because he was endangering everybody else. And then the episode goes above and beyond to show he can handle it. He shoots the balls with the arrows and saves the day on his own. And the end is like "Ulp! He's a junkie!" I don't need that. My TV doesn't need that. Nobody is better for having John be the hero of the episode only to turn him into a fraud at the last second. If the moral was he WAS screwing up the entire time, and things were just getting worse, I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's just that the positive reinforcement he is getting from the others is now making me a bit ill.

    Ironically it turns out Renee was right to go to Oliver when he did. I cannot believe the producers actually had him apologize to Diggle for that. After that ending, it's outright infuriating.

    Quentin describing the anti-vigilante bill being put to a public vote a "Stay of Execution" is accurate. There is no guarantee the public will see things the correct way. Since it IS this show, of course they will, but I would have taken Quentin's suggestion at the beginning to own the bill so I could privately weaken it. But Oliver's not always the sharpest cookie.

    I am less concerned that the Fed investigating Oliver figured out John is the new Green Arrow than the show thinks I should be. After last week, I pretty much assumed she already knew, and guessed everything correctly. The real problem is proving it. Her knowing the truth about John didn't worry me at all. Because I assumed she always did.

    Somebody get the new Green Arrow an intervention. ***.
     
  13. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Never trust a fed with a hidden agenda.
     
  14. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    Right now on The CW!

    [​IMG]
    "Reversal"
    Thursday, November 2, 2017 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on The CW
    Just as Oliver starts to get things in order, Black Siren launches another attack on the citizens of Star City.
     
  15. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Arrow "Reversal"

    I like Oliver being the supportive boyfriend, and the temporary Overwatch, and easing Felicity's guilt, but on that last point, he didn't do a good enough job. He is right that the situation was not Felicity's fault. What he doesn't say, and SHOULD have said, is that it was HIS fault. Entirely. Prometheus was HIS own damn mess. And it was such a spectacular fustercluck that it's no wonder Felicity was desperate enough to free the Devil to stop that psycho. I like how encouraging and supportive Oliver is. But if he were a little more self-aware of what happened, he'd be taking full responsibility for it.

    I now see why we didn't see Kaiden James' face last season: So they could cast a name for him this season. Michael Emerson is a pretty great choice for the role, if you ask me. Better than the Joker at any rate.

    I love Curtis and Felicity together, because Curtis is invested in Felicity and Oliver, precisely because he knows from personal experience that this life can wreck a relationship with someone you love. And I love that that's the reason he wants Olicity to work.

    Slade wanting help was not the best cliffhanger ever. I was kind of expecting and hoping that Thea had woken up instead.

    I regret that Kacey Rohl was turned back into the battered woman victim she always winds up playing, because this specific role was completely different from all of her other roles, because it was absent that. Hopefully if she returns, this is the only episode she's the punching bag. But I kind of don't blame the writers for going there. Rohl as an actress always delivers gangbusters in this particular scenario. I can't imagine a series NEVER asking her to play it if they cast her with any regularity. It IS literally the kind of role she plays best.

    Are Rohl's bruises supposed to suggest her character and James were together? Because considering the age differences, that's totally gross.

    Good week. ****.
     
  16. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Clever stunt casting, bringing in Michael Emerson (ex-Person of Interest) to play Cayden James, the moral opposite of Harold Finch (POI). What I don't want is this being the season-long big bad, because there isn't all that much you can do with this villain.

    Alana nearly pays for her past association with James, and it seems she will now join Felicity & Curtis. Something tells me, though, that this is to be filed under too good to be true.
     
  17. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm. No preview from Penguin this week.

    This has the feel of a potential back-door pilot for Slade, assuming there's enough room to give him a spin-off. So his son's been brainwashed to join the Jackals. Why am I not surprised?

    Vigilante returns, and we find he's Dinah's ex-lover/partner? That came out of left field.
     
  18. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Arrow "Deathstroke Returns"

    The Arrow I love is back. Been a few seasons.

    I think Slade's stuff with Oliver was amazing, and I love these two trying to navigate working together after all that has happened. Can you believe Oliver called hm out of practice? Just based on that climax, Oliver just made a VERY foolish guess. He should consider himself lucky Slade isn't after HIM anymore. If he thought Slade was out of practice, he never would have seen that coming.

    I feel like the flashbacks were missing some context. Hopefully next week we'll see the same scenes from Cain's perspective. Because it strikes me that the kid probably saw his father kill the guy without him ever realizing it. That sounds like a Next Week bombshell.

    Props to the episode for not making Vigilante Slade's son. I was totally worried about that due to the overly spoilery recap, which is why recaps suck. But sometimes they can mislead the viewer in the wrong direction, to the show's benefit. That's what happened tonight.

    I am again not concerned that Watson guessed Dinah is the Black Canary. It is my opinion that she's knows everything, and every vigilante's secret ID (except perhaps Vigilante himself). She said it herself. She's concerned with what she can actually prove. I don't think things have changed at all.

    Speaking of Vigilante, I think he is possibly the stupidest character on the series. Because his actions are counter to his goals. The city is set to vote on a referendum banning or permitting vigilantes. And at last count, it had 70% broad support of allowing them. Making the woman a martyr is not even a realistic concern if that many people are already on Team Arrow's side. He wouldn't martyr her, because not only do not many people agree with her, but those that do don't really care one way or the other. Martyrs are created by people dying for their cause. This Councilwoman is kinda witchy but she is nobody's revolutionary. What her death WOULD do is shift public opinion. Not her supposed followers, or acolytes, of whatever Team Arrow worries about (that don't actually exist). She doesn't have those. But the voters? The regular meat and potatoes men and women who don't think a politician should be killed for stating a controversial opinion? They would make their displeasure known. Especially when Vigilante trying to murder her is actually proving her point.

    Frankly, Vigilante is so stupid, that the writers try to excuse their bad writing by saying he targeted her because she was supposedly also corrupt. And I'm sure next week we'll find out he was correct. But he couldn't wait until after the election? Or even NOT during the TV broadcast when she was discussing the problem of people taking the law into their own hands? This moron is practically writing her campaign ads for her.

    I would think an assassin would be better at risk assessment and juggling variables that Vigilante seems to be. He needs to listen to the little voice inside his head that says "Think!" You know. Lisa.

    Other than that, I enjoyed the episode very much. ****1/2.
     
  19. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    My apologies for last week, I took an unscheduled nap early in the evening. :shrug:

    [​IMG]
    "Promises Kept"
    Thursday, November 16, 2017 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on The CW
    As Slade continues to uncover clues about his son’s last few years, Oliver makes a big decision.
     
  20. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Some quick facts on Ricardo Diaz, a New 52 era villain introduced about 2-3 years ago:
    =======================
    A new version of Richard Dragon is introduced following DC's The New 52 2011 continuity relaunch. A character identifying himself as Richard Dragon first appears in Green Arrow#23 (2013).[7] In Green Arrow #31, he appears leading a team of Green Arrow's enemies, referred to as the Longbow Hunters. In Green Arrow #32 the character identifies himself as Ricardo Diaz, Jr., the namesake son of a drug kingpin who had been killed by John Diggle (posing as Green Arrow). He revealed that after his father's death and the fall of his criminal empire he sought out and found the League of Assassins where his sensei taught him to become a living weapon. He claims that when his sensei also taught him patience and compassion, which he perceived to be a weakness, he killed his sensei and took his name. Diaz/Dragon places a 30 million dollar bounty on Green Arrow, which three members of the Longbow Hunters (Brick, Killer Moth, and Red Dart) intend to split. Green Arrow is able to defeat all of them with the help of his young half-sister, Emiko. Green Arrow is then reunited with his old partner, John Diggle, after Dragon attempts to kill Diggle by defenestration. In a fight against both Arrow and Diggle, Dragon is able to significantly injure both of them, but is ultimately defeated.
    ====================
    Yeah, for those who don't know, Diggle---and, for a time, Felicity---crossed into the DCU thanks to the show. In fact, now-embattled EP Andrew Kriegsberg briefly was a co-writer on the comic book before the current series began.

    So not digging where the Wilson family soap opera is going.

    So not digging Diggle being on some drug that could conceivably kill him. Stupid writers.

    So not digging what happens next week, although I think Diggle-as-GA ends then.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1

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