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"Arrow" Season Four Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by The Penguin, Oct 7, 2015.

  1. Dudley

    Dudley Moderator
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    I really hope that's not the case. It's really stupid they kill off characters because they can't be in the show AND the movie.
    I rather we have a TV series than a film series if that's the case


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  2. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I remember there were rumors about Black Canary being used in Justice League Part 1 a while back, so I did wonder if Laurel's death was partially a result of that, though the creators haven't confirmed if that was the case.

    And they're usually fairly honest about when a character is made off-limits do to the movies or other plans DC has.

    Though, in the event that Laurel is really dead...with Earth-2 Black Siren showing up on Flash, I wonder if she'll end up staying on Earth-1 and become the new Black Canary? The original version of the character was from Earth-2 after all ;).
     
  3. Tohya

    Tohya deficit omne quod nasciture

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    Nah, I highly doubt the death was faked. Other than appearing as Black Siren on Flash and lending her voice to the Vixen web series, Katie Cassidy is done in the Arrowverse.
    Also, why are you still on this Suicide Squad thing? So what if they killed Waller and Lawton, let it go. Its obvious by the Flash's continued existence that DC isn't totally obsessed with preserving the purity of the DCEU.


    I don't know if I heard it on the Arrow Podcast or if im just making this up but there was rumors of grumblings coming from Cassidy and her role on the Arrow. I mean, her character is based on the actual Black Canary and yet for most of her time on the show its been a struggle to get her character to work and for the last three seasons she has been the shows weakest link. I wonder if that didn't impact the decision of who to put in that grave? Its ironic though because her character was actually starting to work nicely this season, not to mention really benefiting from the complete reversal the fan base has done on Feclity. But I agree, wasted potential and honestly, might of been one of the final nails on the Arrow Coffin.
     
  4. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    I was making a joke.
     
  5. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Just watched it On Demand.

    It's clear now, and it should've been right from the start of the season, that Team Berlanti had written themselves right into a corner, because, according to what I've read, they hadn't decided who would be in the grave until fairly recently. Are you kidding me? If you're going to build the season around one particular plot twist that won't come into play until the last quarter of the season---and with 2 weeks off for reruns, that means 4-5 episodes left---you by all rights should have it all plotted out from point a to point z before the start of the season.

    WWE does this occasionally, for example, though you can make a case that Vince McMahon, who reportedly changes his mind every few seconds, or so the story goes, can't stick to a coherent idea for very long. That he doesn't train his writers from outside wrestling doesn't help, and that's on him.

    Digression over. We've seen this in the comics, too, and that includes the swerve of having Andy be a Trojan horse still in Damien Dohrk's camp. We know Team Berlanti is playing by its own rules in relation to established characters, but killing off Black Canary?! I'm hearing from my bro, who scopes out sites like IGN, for example, that fans are looking to string up Marc Guggenheim, who has written his fair share of comics stories, and knew better than to pull a stunt like this. To a couple of generations of comics fans, Black Canary is to Green Arrow what Catwoman has become to Batman. The intended soulmate. The One & Only True Love, if you will.

    Coincidentally, when the Green Arrow book relaunches with a new #1 in June, Ollie will have two things back that have been missing since 2011. His goatee is one. Canary is the other.

    There's an old expression. If you play with fire, you're bound to get burned. Mess with comics fans long enough, the same thing'll happen.
     
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  6. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    "Canary Cry" April 27, 2016

    Arrow is back! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

    [​IMG]
    "Canary Cry"
    Wednesday, April 27, 2016 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
    Oliver and the team struggle to come to terms with Laurel’s death, especially Diggle who is overwhelmed with guilt for choosing to believe Andy had changed.
     
  7. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    The flashbacks in this episode felt like the strongest they've been in quite some time, not only because of the focus on Laurel, her relationship with Oliver, and just what kind of person she was, someone good and kind who truly believed in saving the city, but because we also got to finally see Tommy's funeral and how both Oliver and Laurel reacted to that :crying:.

    Wow, Evelyn used the Canary Cry more consistently and effectively then either Laurel or Sara ever did. Maybe she should keep it ;).

    I guess Thea wasn't able to talk Alex out of working for Ruve, and his run-in with Kid Canary is probably not going to help his opinion of the Star City vigilante's, so learning Thea is one of them will probably put a damper on their relationship if it ever comes out :sweat:.

    You know things are bad for the team when Diggle is going off the rails. He's usually the one person you can always count on to be in control and level-headed about everything, the team's moral fiber, and seeing him so angry at himself over what happened with Andy and blaming himself for Laurel's death was tough to watch :ack:.

    It's not the first time we've seen Lance have an emotional breakdown over the death of his daughter, but seeing him so desperately clinging to the hope that Laurel was alive or could be revived, no matter how impossible, was incredibly sad. He's lost one daughter twice, and was able to get her back, but now he's lost his oldest daughter and there's seemingly no hope she'll ever come back to him. His breaking down in front of Oliver and his emotions at Laurel's funeral speak were some powerful moments. I feel so terrible for him :(.

    I also think this is the first time Oliver has ever called Lance "Quentin" in the entire series :eek:.

    It was only a matter of time before the Anti-Vigilante Task Force came back once Ruve became mayor, because obviously dealing with the Star City vigilante's is on her to-do list as mayor given the threat they pose to HIVE's plans. Of course, judging by how quickly Green Arrow managed to elude them, they're probably not going to give Team Arrow as much of hassle as they did in season 3 :p.

    Y'know, I know she hasn't been relevant since briefly in season 2, but you'd think they would've brought back Laurel's friend from CNRI for her funeral. It was at least nice to see Dinah again, and Nyssa was used well here. I wonder if we'll see Nyssa come back to give Team Arrow some aid for the final fight with Darhk? I also think learning about Laurel's death will probably bring Roy back o_O.

    Claiming Laurel told him on his deathbed that she was the Black Canary, in order to ensure her legacy and heroism remains intact after Kid Canary's antics, I guess won't backfire on Oliver. He was the last person to see her in the hospital before her death. I thought the touch of putting it on her gravestone was really nice :).

    I guess the funeral takes place after next weeks Flash episode, given Barry has his powers back. Laurel's death must've been around the timeframe of Barry losing and gaining his powers.
     
  8. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    This is what I was referring to when I said the writers put themselves in a creative corner with this plotline. You know you're going to revisit Barry being at the cemetery, which was shown back in October, but stringing the audience along for six months wasn't the brightest of ideas. Sounds more like Jump The Shark territory.

    The best payoff is not only taking down Dahrk, but knocking his wife out of office. I don't want this crap carrying over to next season, and I don't think anyone else does, either.
     
  9. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    My theory for Laurel's "resurrection":
    As we've seen in The Flash and Legends Of Tomorrow, our heroes continually show disregard to the timeline and always go back in time the moment they are experiencing a catastrophe. I have no reason to not believe that after the Vandal Savage mission is complete, Sarah will learn of Laurel's fate, and they go and stop that from happening. Or if Rip is going to return the group to the exact moment they originally left, our heroes will be around when all the events we've already seen took place. Their presence by default alters the timeline, and there's more helping hands in Team Arrow to take down Darhk.
     
  10. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Watched the show online on Thursday after Legends. Take note of the headstone at the grave. Gives Laurel's full name as Dinah Laurel Lance, just like in the books.

    Now, that raises the question of just why, when she was Ollie's girl at the start of the series, he cheated on her with Sara, and then, they started that whole Ollicity business. Could it be that Berlanti, Guggenheim, et al didn't want to posit Laurel as Ollie's true love (a la Batman/Catwoman, as I suggested a while back)?
     
  11. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Her full name has always been Dinah Laurel Lance from the very beginning, they just used her middle name because Guggenheim and co. thought it was too old-fashioned for a first name in the 21st century.

    The reason they never went back to the Oliver and Laurel relationship, or adapted the Green ArroxBlack Canary romance, is because allegedly they already focused on that relationship in season one and didn't want to go back to it. Never minding how much they've changed or how different a dynamic it would be now :shrug:.
     
  12. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Which only goes to show just how much indifference there is on the creative end.
     
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  13. Road to Gotham

    Road to Gotham Well-Known Member

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    Wonder if Evelyn Sharp will become STARLING like she did the comics, New52 BOP series.
     
  14. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Oh, is that where she came from?
     
  15. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    "Genesis" May 4, 2016

    Arrow is on right now!

    [​IMG]
    "Genesis"
    Wednesday, May 4, 2016 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
    As Oliver and Felicity look for a magical solution to defeat Darhk, a vengeance-driven Diggle gets a lead on Andy’s whereabouts and heads off to confront his brother.
     
  16. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    This boiled down to divide & conquer.

    Yes, Andy finally got whacked, and he deserved it because he rejected familial redemption in favor of serving a nutjob like Dahrk, who's now after John Diggle's kid, and stole the whatzit that was under Lyla's wrist.

    But, then, Thea finds herself trapped in a dome just outside the city, and it looks like said dome's been shrunken down. Alex has betrayed her, that much is obvious.

    If they needed a proxy for Constantine, where was Zatanna when you really needed her?
     
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  17. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    Hub City appears in Legends Of Tomorrow a few weeks back, and this week Hub City returns in Arrow. I might not see Superman or Batman in this shared TV DCU, but for the love of god give us the THE QUESTION.
     
  18. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    It's just a question (pun intended) of finding the right guy to play Vic Sage, which is the version they'd probably use, since Renee Montoya is possibly still unavailable (though she hasn't been used this season on Gotham).
     
  19. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    So Murmur is now a part of HIVE and Darhk's inner circle? That's kind of random. I guess Darhk really appreciates Murmur's help during his stay in prison o_O.

    Darhk may as well be in charge of HIVE as a whole given all the power he holds over the rest of the group and that he'll kill any of them if the so much as irritate him :eek:.

    I do have to wonder if Andy was always this bad and despicable a person or if Darhk had just brainwashed and controlled him to such a degree that it turned him into that. He was apparently a dealer before Diggle enlisted him into the military, and still had some major criminal dealings even before HIVE found him, but despite that I don't think he would have abandoned his family and tormented his brother to the degree he has up to this point unless something had seriously messed with his mind :confused:.

    Ironic that, having goaded John into shooting and ending him the entire episode, Andy dies shocked that his brother really went through with it. Especially after he kept threatening Diggle's family and even threatened Sara. That was definitely a step too far, and he paid for it. Now Laurel's death is half-avenged :mad:.

    So I guess Constantine is out of Hell now? Good for him ;).

    It figures that Merlyn would want Thea secured and safe before Genesis happened, and they'd use Alex to do it :ack:.

    Felicity finally takes back her saying Oliver would never stop being the person on the island, which was appreciated. I'm still worried they're going to go back to Olicity again, but at least it was nice to see Felicity being supportive and funny without Olicity ruining that :).

    So Oliver is going to have to fight Darhk with the light and hope The Green Arrow was meant to embody when he took up that identity. Guess that's as good a way to cement his character development and shift from who he used to be as any :cool:.

    It was cool to see Ollie go through fighting each of the Arrow Big Bads, even if they had to skip Ra's because they couldn't get Matt Nable back and he doesn't have a mask like Dark Archer and Deathstroke do, but at least he was there for the flashback to him stabbing Oliver :p.

    Green Arrow shooting Darhk in the back with a line arrow and pulling him in for a flurry of punches was an awesome moment :D.

    I did not miss the flashbacks at all in this episode, and it flowed fairly well and solidly without them, which is probably telling in regard to how essential and enjoyable they've been for me this season...but we did get a few teases for what's going to happen to Taiana.

    Was that Brick in the preview for next week? Didn't expect him to come back...
     
  20. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Might be more flashbacks. I skipped the teaser as I changed the channel.
     
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