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Animation Revelation's Top 65 Animated Series of All Time

Discussion in 'The toonzone - General Animation Discussion' started by chalmers, Jun 27, 2011.

  1. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
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    I agree. I don't think that Samurai Jack is a terrible show by any means, but outside of its artwork and the fight scenes, I don't think it was really that interesting to watch. There were some fun episodes here and there, but I never really got into it.

    I agree that the art and humor that they were using for Teen Titans definitely prevents it from being forgettable, especially compared to other DC animated series. Granted, I do think that they have some good points about its flaws. I agree with them about how the Terra arc could have been better paced and handled. If she was on the main cast for a season, or even half of one, before becoming a villain, then I think it would have been more satisfying. Though, I always felt more depressed for Beast Boy during that arc. Maybe it helps that the image of Beast Boy whimpering in a dog form with Terra's gift always made me feel sad due to being a huge dog person, but I always felt much more sympathetic for Beast Boy than Terra. I don't think that Terra was unsympathetic, but it felt like she caused all of her problems herself when she could have been happy if she didn't run to Slade.

    I also thought that some of the characters did develop during the course of the series. Raven and Cyborg felt like they did at least, along with maybe Beast Boy. I don't remember how seasons three and four ended, but I do agree that Slade being the only intimidating villain was a problem. I don't think I really expected Teen Titans to be on a high point of this list, but I was kind of expecting to see it somewhere. Still, I think that they had some valid points as to why it isn't on the list, but I still disagree with the idea that it's forgettable.

    As for Kim Possible, I don't think that the later seasons are that bad. I'll admit that Kim being so perfect did get a bit tiresome and Rufus being so important was kind of annoying at times too, but I still think it was a fun show. I'm also not sure if I'd say that Ron was stupid. He felt more like a goofball kind of character and he did develop as the series progressed. Considering that the series was brought back for a fourth season, I don't think it's too surprising that it existed for fanservice. I did like seeing Kim and Ron being boyfriend and girlfriend and the ending felt pretty satisfying. While I like it, I'm not sure if I'd put it high up on a list like this. It probably would be still in the bottom fifteen part of the list. I can see how American Dragon making a significant amount of improvement with its second season would have given it an edge compared to Kim Possible though.
     
  2. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator
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    Yeah, Samurai Jack is substantially powered by style.....but man, what style. I love the artistry and imagination that went into that show. I also don't think a show must have dialogue in order to communicate things well, which Jack does sufficiently do for its purposes. I could watch highlights of that series an unlimited number of times. The Birth of Evil is more epic than a whole lot of series ever get. I do comprehend where the critique comes from; most series are full of dialogue and exposition and we're conditioned to associate this with strong storytelling. But that doesn't mean it's the sole best way to do things. Samurai Jack is to action cartoons what The Illusionist is to traditional animated feature films, when it comes to how they interact with the viewer.

    Teen Titans could certainly be enjoyable, I think that can be agreed upon. It's not a must-see series to me, though, unlike some other superhero shows that I see on the upper part of the list. Robin's ongoing rivalry & vendetta against Slade was the series at its best.
     
  3. chdr

    chdr Active Member

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    My problem with it is that while it's certainly a beautiful series, it's not some kind of arthouse short or anything. It was an action show with promises of a large, over-arching story that it never delivered on. If Genndy had 52 episodes to tell a complete, action-packed story and he blew most of it on Jack silently walking through fields, that's his own fault. It's really a shame that Titan ended so quickly, because it took Jack's excellent direction but also managed to tell an actual story at the same time.

    Also, just realized that Moral Orel is not on this list :sad:
     
  4. FightingDreamer

    FightingDreamer Mutant on the Rise

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    An overarching plotline in Samurai Jack? Really? The only overarching plot is "Jack must eventually go back to the past and defeat Aku". That pretty much gave Tartakovksky and company free reign to do whatever kind of stories they wanted as long as they kept that central focus. No, it never truly happened in the series (came close a few times, though), but the show would've been over really quickly if Jack had actually beat Aku.

    Was the show perfect? I suppose not; there are times where it feels a little pretentious, and times when Jack's inability to return to the past is ridiculously contrived. But it certainly deserved its acclaim.
     
  5. chdr

    chdr Active Member

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    My problem was that they had 52 episodes and never even made an ending, or really went anywhere. Even within most of the stand-alone episodes was a lot of nothing going on.
     
  6. suss2it

    suss2it Active Member

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    Then that means the show basically peaked at season 1. Season 2 didn't feature Robin vs. Slade, but season 3 did have that one awesome episode where Robin is the only one can see Slade.
     
  7. Desensitized

    Desensitized Old School!

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    For what it's worth, I do like Teen Titans, but it's probably one of my lesser favorites in the DC animated world.

    They're good shows, yes. But nothing they do is good enough to put them over what made the list. It's hard for me to put Clerks in the same league as Duckman, for instance. While it's funny, what does it really do to make it comparable as an experience? That said, I really do like both of those shows a lot.

    I'm the wrong person to be replying to this part, but I think you're absolutely wrong. As someone who recently started viewing this series, the show is remarkable with how much it misses the mark. Other than some great and solid episodes from the John K era, the show is extraordinarily forgettable as a whole... And the Games episodes are woefully boring and pedestrian. Again, there's nothing there that could really put it above the comedies we already ranked which were remarkably more consistent and of higher quality as a whole.

    There is nothing of merit from APC as a whole, no. It's probably one of the top 10 worst experiences I've ever had watching a cartoon, so I guess if that can be considered merit, then there you go. Animation be damned, it's one of the worst animated shows ever. However, if we lumped APC in with the rest, that would be more insulting to the original episodes. But no, it didn't rank because as a whole the series just doesn't hang together very well. APC is just the icing.

    That's fine, I like discussion. :)

    But also, of the staff, only two people really like R&S, and even they didn't think it was good enough as a whole to make the list. So, that's really all there is to it.
     
  8. Eddy

    Eddy there's a chicken on my head

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    I was just wondering, was Sonic the Hedgehog (SatAM) being considered at all or did it not even come up? I certainly wouldn't put it as top ten material (it would probably be pretty far down) but despite suffering from some 90s cheesiness it's still a pretty solid children's cartoon with a dark tone you typically didn't see in a Saturday morning cartoon starring woodland creatures.

    Of course, I might be viewing it with nostalgia goggles on.
     
  9. Darklordavaitor

    Darklordavaitor Moderator
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    Re: Venture

    I'll just say to each their own for now. I can't say that I recall watching those episodes on the top of my head, but when I have more time later, I'll check their guides and if I haven't, I'll watch or rewatch them and reply back to you.

    Re: Ren & Stimpy

    I'm one of the two people that really like the show, and while there's a lot of Spumco eps that I quite enjoy and a handful of Games ones I like as well, I tend to side with Desen overall on the series. Watching a great deal of the show again, I find that some of it doesn't hold up as well as I'd think, probably considering how many times I've watched eps like "Nurse Stimpy" or "Sven Hoek".

    I still love what I love and I'll never tire of "Space Madness" or "Stimpy's Invention", but I kind of think that the show gets a little more credit than it deserves.

    I can't say that we did. I liked the show a lot as a kid, as well as the comics, but I haven't seen any of it in years, and I don't think anyone else on staff is much more familiar with the show as of late as I am.
    I
    t's been on my to-rewatch list for a while, but I just haven't got around to it yet.
     
  10. SB20xx

    SB20xx Oooooh!
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    Hmm, I would, actually, say that Clerks is as funny as Duckman. :) Though admittedly, the two shows have different executions to the jokes and that's perfectly fine. I guess Duckman has the edge in terms of its satire, though.
    In order for this discussion to be more substantial than "I thought it was funny"/"I didn't.", we'll have to get more specific. Why do you find most of the show forgettable, boring, and pedestrian? If anything, a lot of the plots in the show are unique in the sense that they don't recycle tired animated kids' show plot cliches, or if it did use cliches (such as "A Yard Too Far", which had the familiar premise of trying to get food from a yard with an angry guard animal) it executed them in an entertaining way, and contain a lot of gags you wouldn't see in earlier incarnations (for example, Stimpy's crumpled skin crawling through the yard, or Ren & Stimpy in disguise as Mr. Pipe's wife being fed to the baboon).

    I also think it's worth mentioning that R&S and Tiny Toons (and Mighty Mouse: TNA, to a lesser extent) brought cartoony cartoons back to the airwaves. That alone makes R&S a milestone in my book, and why it still works for me as an adult: Because I can laugh at the funny drawings and sight gags. It was a cut above a lot of other comedy cartoons airing at the same time, which were still operating on old conventions.

    Of course, I'm also well aware that influence doesn't equal best-executed. So your mileage may vary.
     
  11. Desensitized

    Desensitized Old School!

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    I know what R&S was trying to be, and what it is. It's a very important show in animation history, it has a lot of good qualities such as its animation and direction (mostly in the early episodes), it has fantastic music and vocal performances (outside of APC, which was awful there) but as whole it has some deep flaws.

    If you want some examples, I can give you a few. Aloha Hoek has terrible pacing where nothing really happens for about 2/3s of the episode and then suddenly there's a crab family shows up and before you know it, the episodes over. The problem is that this segment is so rushed that the jokes never have any time to settle, the fly thing feels out of place, and then you get to that ending which is just... Well, it's Simpsons Scully-era ending, isn't it? "We don't care enough about wrapping this up so here's some random stuff that you might enjoy"... And that's the memorable part of the episode. Almost every Games episode has weird issues like this, just sometimes on different levels whether being not funny on an execution level ("Egg Yokeo"), or just plain generic ("My Shiny Friend") which in a show like Ren & Stimpy which bases itself on being extreme is a cardinal sin.

    As for APC... Ren Seeks Help.

    I'll go further if you want. It's not funny. It's badly written, the jokes amount to "over the top cruelty for no reason" and "hyper violence because that's adult". We're treated to scenes where Ren literally does nothing but dismember animals and that animal screams in pain. This is Newgrounds level comedy. What's worse is the ending just has Ren beating people to death. That's the punchline. The only thing we learn is that Ren likes murdering things, apparently. If this show relied on character based humor besides Ren being a jerk and Stimpy being an idiot more often than its gross out gag style that might gel better. But it doesn't. So yeah, I would consider it pretty terrible.

    But that's a whole other area.

    Anyway, Ren & Stimpy was good at what it did, and its importance is well known in the animation community, but strictly on a quality level, I wouldn't put it above any other comedy on this list.
     
  12. HG Revolution

    HG Revolution Truth (with crazy opinions!)

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    From the explanation of missed shows, it really does make Johnny Bravo an outlier on the list. The first season was awesome, the specials and the last season were OK, and the majority of it was just forgettable crap. Spongebob has had roughly the same ratio of good-to-bad material, and I'd say is stronger overall. I'd also say FLCL probably deserves a rank for sheer quality (and on another note, I'd say Gurren Lagann's another worthy candidate with similar strengths but a longer run), though I understand the reasoning it's not there. Jack would make my list; while they could have done more plot stuff, it's so well-directed that I rarely found it boring, and I liked the creativity of the different genre homages and comedy episodes. And I must defend Teen Titans against accusations of being a bad show; the characters were likable and at least Raven and Beast Boy were pretty well developed, the action was top-notch, and while it sometimes had tonal issues the pure drama and pure comedy episodes were generally excellent.
     
  13. ensatsu-ken

    ensatsu-ken "Come and get it!"

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    You're welcome to think that, but I completely disagree with your entire outlook on JB. The first season to me was generally good but wasn't quite enough to stand out among the other CCs. The stuff that came after that was top quality in both humor and writing. The last season was fairly disappointing, with a few good episodes but most of it was mediocre. Still, the majority of the shows run was full of quality humor, IMO. Of course, it is a matter of a opinion and we're not denying that (hence why it was ranked lower than most of the other CC's on our list which get more people who agree on the quality of those series), but we still found it to be good quality stuff on a consistent basis until the last season.

    To each his own, though.
     
  14. Dragnatek

    Dragnatek Well-Known Member

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    Now I'm going to say something basphamis for a second because I do believe the Simpsons deserved the spot it got. But with all this talk of shows that started off good but did not make the list because at the end the number of bad episodes or seasons overwhelmed the good.

    Well can't the same be said about the Simpsons? The first nine seasons were great but a majority of it is forgettable crap. Now yes nine great seasons is impressive but when a show is in it's in it's twenty third season you suddenly have more crap then good episodes.

    Ok season one was not that good but nothing horrible, seasons 2 though ten were pretty much great (Though ten started going down hill. Then you had the horrid seasons eleven and twelve where most of people's most hated episodes come from. Then the show improved a bit but never reaching the quality it once had, from seasons thirteen on there are maybe two or three good episodes in a season and the rest is forgettable crap.

    When your on the 23rd season however you suddenly have a show that is more bad then good. Now while the Simpsons with out a doubt deserves a spot on the list seeing how other shows were removed completely for the same reasons wouldn't the Simpsons at the very least end up with a lower spot then it had or do nine seasons of greatness more then make up for it because most shows can't say they had that?
     
  15. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator
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    I think the same thing absolutely can be said, but I daresay The Simpsons has also achieved much more than a series like Spongebob in terms of both impact and creativity. It set a standard for animated sitcoms and satire. So while Simpsons definitely does get a double standard from this list, in this case there's a defensible reason for it.

    Which is not to say that I would personally put it at #2. Above its successors? Well, probably.
     
  16. SB20xx

    SB20xx Oooooh!
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    Thank you. That's far more specific than the blog post, and now I can see where you're coming from. :)

    And actually, I agree with the examples you listed. "Aloha Hoek", in retrospect, isn't that noteworthy (aside from Ren's psychotic facial expressions throughout) and its ending pretty much negates any reason for the episode to exist, "Egg Yolkeo", despite some funny moments ("Good night, STUPID!"), is let down by its swampy animation, and "My Shiny Friend" is indeed pretty straightforward for the most part. Also, it feels rushed in a way: It's over halfway through that the TV is destroyed so we only get a little bit of withdrawal before the short's over. One wonders if it would've worked better as a full-length episode, which isn't something I often say in this show. I do still enjoy "MSF" despite this, but there's no doubt it could've been better.

    For what it's worth, I don't find "Ren Seeks Help" to be a funny episode either, save for a few spots ("Doctor?! I'm a HORSE!"). Its strength more lies in the direction: Not knowing what Ren did to Stimpy that was so horrible, some shots that look great (such as Ren's dad's first ominous appearance), the color palette, and the overall look of the episode was very moody and noir-ish, certainly appropriate for the tone of it. It was certainly a better-executed episode than the Games "Ren Needs Help!", which was just head-scratching and unfocused. Is it about Ren trying to become sane? Or is it about Ren going mad in the mental hospital? Or is it about all the residents in the mental hospital? Or is it about Ren rallying said residents to riot? It was just all over the place.

    But yeah, didn't care for the violence in "Ren Seeks Help" either. On the other hand... the blows to Mr. Horse mostly took place off-screen, which is an effective technique. They should've done that for the frog torture as well.
     
  17. FightingDreamer

    FightingDreamer Mutant on the Rise

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    Looking over the list, I have to wonder why Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes qualifies despite it being a fairly new show, as several other very recent shows were left off the list. I can understand why Young Justice didn't make it since there's only been 10 released episodes, but Archer has 22 episodes by this point, and Sym-Bionic Titan had two 13-episode seasons. What gives?

    Also, no Brak Show or Sealab 2021? I certainly think they deserve at least a mention, even honorably, as they're great early Adult Swim shows.
     
  18. Dragnatek

    Dragnatek Well-Known Member

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    Sym Bionic Titan had one 20 episode season. Cartiin network might have called the mid season finale the "season finale" but it was only a one season long show.
     
  19. Darklordavaitor

    Darklordavaitor Moderator
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    Re: The Simpsons

    Say what you will about the new episodes, but the first ten or so seasons of the show remain some of the greatest television ever made, animated or not. Few shows have been able to combine humor, heart, character development, social satire, and craft into detail. The bad episodes are starting to outweigh the good, but the classic episodes of The Simpsons remain a sight to behold. I think #3 was a fair spot for it.

    Time will tell if other series can maintain some what made the early episodes special as long as it did, but I find that kind of hard to believe happening anytime soon. King of the Hill is the closest thing I can think of to hold all of that together for such a long period of time, which is why it cracked the top 5.

    We considered both of these and MLP, but we only wanted one series that premiered in the past 12 months to make it in, and Avengers just won the luck of the draw. I think a big part of why is that we were taking it off for Wolverine & the X-Men, and replacing one Marvel series for another seemed like a good idea.

    I actually fought a little to have Archer make it on instead, but it didn't get enough support from the rest of the staff. I remain fairly certain that it and a couple of other series mentioned in the came out too soon article should make it into the list if and when we attempt to make another one in the future.

    Well, I for one really enjoy both shows, although admittedly not the post-Harry Goz Sealab episodes. I think some of the other staffers do, as well. But they just never came up.

    I guess when it came to the [as] originals, Space Ghost went first since it came first, and Harvey Birdman earned special mention since it ran for a while and never lost it's appeal, unlike Aqua Teen and Sealab. And Venture was close to making it on. We never really talked about anything else.
     
  20. Dragnatek

    Dragnatek Well-Known Member

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    Oh I agree I agree. It's just other shows seemed to have been prevented from making the list all together because of their drop in quality in their later seasons. It does seem unfair that 13+ less then impressive seasons does not hurt the Simpsons even a little in the ranking.
     

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