1. We are looking for a volunteer to help out with entering the DC and Marvel comics solicitations. If you are interested, please contact Harley.
    Dismiss Notice

20th Pokemon Film Confirmed: New Adaption of First Season?

Discussion in 'The Anime Forum' started by Gold Guy, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2004
    Messages:
    11,032
    Likes Received:
    6
    The anime did have a pretty strong continuity up until the end of DP. It's why the OS, AG and DP all felt like one long continuous series. Each saga flowed into the next, old characters returned, Ash still used older pokemon, and they referenced things from past episodes.

    It wasn't until BW started where they came up with their semi-reboots every saga. The tail-end of BW had returns of Dawn and Charizard, but again that seems to have been a one time thing. Both XY and SM are also rather standalone sagas from everything else.

    Oddly enough I think it was Brock also leaving that made every saga feel like a reboot. Without one returning companion around every saga feels like it's own thing. As much as I didn't like DP-era Brock, it is especially noticeable once he was axed each saga feels like its own thing.
     
  2. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    43,075
    Likes Received:
    692
    I don't know if I'd say that there was pretty strong continuity per say, mainly because that would imply that you had to watch the bulk of each of those three series to follow along with it. There was definitely a stronger sense of continuity and I can totally see how the first three series felt like one long continuous series because of what you mentioned, but each series was still pretty standalone. Even with older characters showing up, using older Pokemon and each saga flowing into the next, you could still watch one series without seeing the other pretty easily. You didn't have to watch the original series in order to follow along with DP for example. I do think that is one reason why the anime is still successful. They design each series in a way that makes it accessible for new kids watching Pokemon for the first time.

    It's more like soft-resets. The previous series still happened, but they just have far fewer references to their continuity and in the case of BW's, there was a pretty hard reset for Ash's skills. The first episode of BW did show a lot of things in Ash's room that referred to his previous adventures, so it wasn't like Dawn and Charizard were the first continuity nods in the series. XY did have much fewer references with the most in the series itself being a throwaway line regarding Ash mentioning Dawn's Piplup. Clemont did meet Clemont and Bonnie, but that was in a special sent after the series, so I don't know if that counts for much. I'm actually still quite glad that Iris never showed up in XY. Even if I didn't dislike her, there wasn't really a good way for her to be included in XY's storyline and I wouldn't have wanted another forced return arc anyway.

    It might be a bit too soon to say that SM will be in the same boat as XY in regards to continuity nods. It does still feel like a pretty standalone series right now, but that could change later on depending on what games we'll get next in the generation and if they do decide to have any of the XY characters appear in SM proper. Although, I suspect that the chances are greater that they'll just give them specials instead of having them suddenly appear in Alola.

    That could be a factor as to why the other series have felt more standalone-like, but I think that the bigger thing is that we don't have one series transiting into the next one. That did help one journey flow into the next one pretty nicely, but we don't really get that as often anymore. We did see Ash traveling from Kanto to Kalos, but we just jumped right into Ash going to Unova and Alola without that kind of transition, so it feels a bit odd in that regard.
     
  3. Mikurotoro92

    Mikurotoro92 Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,672
    Likes Received:
    90
    Is it possible that there is no yearly progression in the Pokémon series?

    That might explain why Ash never ages & also how the events take place all at once!

    As for this adaptation it seems they are taking the Disney approach by adding new characters

    I kinda have an issue with removing Misty & Brock since this is supposed to be a retelling of the original series but oh well!
     
    #63 Mikurotoro92, May 20, 2017
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  4. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    43,075
    Likes Received:
    692
    I wouldn't say that the event takes place all at once. Time does pass in the series. They're usually just vague about it, although they have often said when Leagues are about to start after Ash gets his last badge. Unless a year in the Pokemon world is immensely long, there's no way all of the series could take place within less than a year. I still subscribe to the theory that time does pass and it has been years since Ash started his journey, but no one within the course of the series ages.

    I don't know if adding new characters to an established story is really the Disney approach. I think I know what you're referring to, but I'm pretty sure other companies have done that besides Disney.

    This movie was never labeled as a retelling of the original series though. I think fans just jumped the gun on that one and assumed that was going to be the case. Admittedly, I can see why given that this was focus on Ash and Pikachu beginning their journey and this is an anniversary movie too, but they never said that they were going to remake or retell events from the original series. All we knew before they introduced the new characters was that it was about Ash and Pikachu first meeting each other and wanting to go find Ho-Oh. That was it. No mention of Misty, Brock or that it would cover any other events from the original series beyond the first episode. There wasn't even a sign of Misty's bike when they showed Ash protecting Pikachu from the flock of Spearow. I can understand being disappointed that Misty and Brock aren't included, but I do think fans assumed too much based on what little we saw.

    Plus, as a retelling, they are free to take a different approach to the story. It's like complaining that a reboot doesn't have the same characters, even though a reboot is starting with a fresh slate. This isn't exactly a reboot, but they don't have to include Misty and Brock in order to retell Ash's first journey necessarily. A common theory was that this movie would just be about Ash and Pikachu with no one traveling with them prior to the previous trailer.
     
  5. KYO'NYUU IMOUTO

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    51,296
    Likes Received:
    42
    Precisely. Satoshi is ten years old and continues to be ten years old. Everything happens only when it happens.
     
  6. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2004
    Messages:
    11,032
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ash is always 10 but there are seasons where he looks generally older in his early teens, like AG, DP and XY did. Basically if the writers want Ash to be more mature or experienced for a season like in AG/DP/XY, they draw him a bit older looking and have the beginning female trainer be the "rookie" for that saga.

    In other sagas where they want Ash to be more kid-like or younger, they do that like how he started in the OS, or what they did in BW and now SM. Personally I find these changes jarring, since it doesn't make sense anymore to have Ash mature in one saga just to make him seem like a kid again in the next saga. The transition from XY to SM is almost exactly like the transition from DP to BW, at least in terms of Ash.
     
  7. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    43,075
    Likes Received:
    692
    I wouldn't go that far. SM Ash, from what I've seen of the series, really isn't like BW Ash. He acts more like a kid in both series, but I feel like SM has a better grasp on the concept since it hasn't drastically reduced his skills by making him more energetic. I can understand the transition feeling jarring, but SM Ash no where near as bad as BW Ash. Besides that, the transition between BW Ash to XY Ash didn't really make much sense either. It's just that few people have a problem with that because of how XY Ash is more traditionally cool and serious.
     
  8. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2004
    Messages:
    11,032
    Likes Received:
    6
    I guess the writers feel Misty/Brock aren't incentive enough to put in this movie, although I do think it's possibly we'll see them in a brief montage if they show Ash battling all the Kanto Gym leaders. There is a scene in a trailer with what looks like Ash battling Erika's Tangela, so if they bothered to show that we'll probably see all the other Gym leaders or at least Misty/Brock since they wouldn't choose Erika of all characters to show a match of.

    It's rather strange that on other forums like bulbagarden I see people constantly wondering who this movie is aimed at. Even some people mentioning over there that SM Ash is a continuation of this movie version of Ash...which literally makes no sense. I also don't know why they mentioned Misty leaving caused some May hate in early AG, when that never really happened outside a small vocal minority of obsessive fans. May was popular at the beginning of AG, and then once the Contests got introduced and we found out May was actually going to do something rather than stand around, her popularity skyrocketed. So I don't know why people over there are so surprised we don't see anything of Misty or she's excluded from this movie, Misty/Brock aren't really any more popular than the characters who came after them, especially with active anime fans who watched through most of the anime. So I found that discussion very weird, a lot of the people posting over there weren't even in the fandom when AG was airing so I don't know why they would mention that.
     
  9. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    43,075
    Likes Received:
    692
    It could be that Misty and Brock wouldn't fit in whatever plans they have for the movie. The movie will be centered more around Ash and Pikachu's journey to Ho-Oh, so that might have made it harder for Misty and Brock to stand out more. It also could make it clearer that this is an alternate universe take on Ash's journey rather than a retelling. Granted, that was kind of clear before anyway and there were other ways they could do to do that, but that is my guess. I agree that we'll probably see them in a montage with the other Gym Leaders at least.

    I think that theory came about because what little of the manga version of this movie has shown up showed what looked like SM Ash. People then assumed that this meant this is supposed to be Ash's new origin story instead of stand alone movie and that SM is a brand new continuity altogether. Honestly, I don't get it either. I don't know how faithful the manga adaptations of the movies tend to be, but that's seems like a huge conclusion to jump to with such little information to back it up.

    I was involved with the online community during AG. Not nearly as much as I am now, but I lurked around sites and was active at Serebii's forums. I clearly remember quite a bit of hate on May for replacing Misty. It didn't seem like a small vocal minority of fans hating on May. Misty vs. May flamewars were pretty common and it got pretty intense. Maybe this was only around Serebii at the time and the forums there are pretty terrible anyway, which is why I don't go there anymore and haven't for years, but it was too frequent of an issue to be brushed off as just a small vocal minority.

    Granted, I don't think it lasted too long. May was still pretty popular and I also remember people hoping that she wouldn't be replaced like Misty near the end of AG. The fact that D/P had Contests like the third generation games did probably gave fans hope at the time. I think that the May hate cooled down considerably by the time AG entered its second year, if not a bit before then, but there was quite a bit of hate towards her for replacing Misty for the first few months of the series.
     
  10. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2004
    Messages:
    11,032
    Likes Received:
    6
    What's funny is it seems like Ash's Kanto team will be roughly the same as the series. He's getting the Kanto starters, Butterfree and Pidgeotto, and once again only Charizard is fully evolved. So it seems weird they gave him the same pokemon Ash is known for in Kanto, but excluding Misty/Brock and even Gary and giving him a new rival with an Incineroar.

    People just don't like SM Ash being a continuation of XY Ash, same way BW Ash from DP Ash. But it's still part of the main series, this movie is the first alternate Ash we ever had.

    You also have to remember this was back in 2003-2004, back then most of the fandom consisted of young teenagers. Hell I was only 17-18 myself back then, and I was older than most people as everyone else was only around 13-15 at the time. So obvious at that young age of being a teenager, a lot of people had no idea how the real world worked or what the show is aimed at or who it's made for, so they treated it like their fanfiction where anything can happen. Even though episodes are scripted like 7-8 months before they even air on TV, and so forth. Most of the people complaining were indeed just young shippers/fans, and even then it was mostly the same group of people. Trust me, I was the one debating with them constantly in the early 2000's so I know...lol. In fact I was like a one-man army back then so I remember it vividly. And as said, May herself became popular and the Contests pretty much immediately caught on after the first 1-2 or so of them aired. A lot of people on forums now are teens or in their early 20's, they were just kids when AG was originally airing so they weren't even online at the time.
     
  11. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    43,075
    Likes Received:
    692
    I think that's mainly because the Pokemon are more marketable than the human characters are. There is merchandise featuring the human characters, especially in Japan, but most people are going to buy Pokemon plush toys and such more so than figures or something like that of the human characters. They also still need to incorporate the most recent Pokemon somehow, which is why we got a new rival win an Incineroar.

    That certainly is a factor and I vaguely recall people wondering if BW was a new continuity too for awhile, despite the nods to previous episodes within Ash's room right when the series began. Ash is pretty much a new character with every series anyway. Few people complained about how drastically different he was from BW to XY, but that was because he was more traditionally cool and more in character than I think he was during BW.

    I'm sure that there were shippers among the people complaining back then and being relatively young was a factor too. People thought that Misty could come back like Brock or were just upset that she was replaced. Some of the fans in their teens and early twenties might not have been online at the time, but I was. I still don't think it was a small group though considering how often it came up. Plus, Misty's departure was a pretty common reason as to why people dropped the show for quite some time, although not everyone who said that would necessarily hate on May for replacing her. People calmed down after awhile and once they showed a couple of Contests, most fans seemed to really like them. There are fans who still want Contests to come back, including me, so being used in AG and DP was appealing for a lot of fans.
     
  12. Megumi

    Megumi ★ No One's Dream Anymore ☆

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    22
    So this movie did well for Pokémon at this point in its life. Better than the XY movies is what I've seen in terms of money.
     
  13. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    43,075
    Likes Received:
    692
    Yeah, the opening week turned out really well. It dropped down pretty quickly, but considering how the last few movies did in the box office, this one did fairly well for itself all things considered.
     
  14. Megumi

    Megumi ★ No One's Dream Anymore ☆

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    22
    That's cool. I won't be watching this one due to the lack of nostalgic features on it. I mean, if there's one thing I don't get nostalgic over, it's two random characters made for the movie and more exposition on Ash and Pikachu's bond.
     
  15. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2004
    Messages:
    11,032
    Likes Received:
    6
    What would you get nostalgic for then? Misty/Brock's absence wouldn't be much different than having two recognizable characters there.
     
  16. dragoonanime

    dragoonanime Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    43,075
    Likes Received:
    692
    That's pretty cool. There will hopefully be a theater playing it close by to where I live. I've had pretty decent luck with previous Pokemon movies with limited releases, so that will hopefully happen with this one too.
     
  18. Mikurotoro92

    Mikurotoro92 Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,672
    Likes Received:
    90
    I won't be able to watch the movie since our theater doesn't have the technology that Fathom Events uses so it DEFINITELY won't be coming here!

    How do I know this?

    I contacted them about their promotion for "Mickey and the Roadster Racers" that they did a few months ago

    Also I am surprised that this is limited-release considering it's freaking POKÉMON!
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    43,075
    Likes Received:
    692
    I don't think it's that surprising. I believe that the last movie to get a nation wide release was the third movie. There have been a few movies since then in theaters, but only for limited releases. While the Pokemon franchise itself is still pretty popular and the main series games sell like hotcakes, the anime's popularity has greatly decreased after the fad popularity cooled down. Most people nowadays would just be surprised to hear that the anime is still going and that Ash is still the lead character. Plus, most anime movies nowadays only have a limited release for a week or two as well.
     
  20. Cartoon_Kid

    Cartoon_Kid Customized

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    1
    I haven't been excited for a Pokemon movie in years, I'm glad they are doing this! This is an awesome idea! Props!
     

Share This Page

  • Find Toonzone on Facebook

  • Toonzone News

  • Site Updates

    Upcoming Premieres

  • Toonzone Fan Sites


Tac Anti Spam from Surrey Forum