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2012 Presidential Election Part 2 (Fall General Election) Please read rules before posting!

Discussion in 'Cafe toonzone' started by wonderfly, Jun 2, 2012.

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Who will you vote for for President of the United States?

  1. Barack H. Obama (Democrat)

    41 vote(s)
    60.3%
  2. W. Mitt Romney (Republican)

    11 vote(s)
    16.2%
  3. Other (Independent/Third Party)

    5 vote(s)
    7.4%
  4. Abstain

    4 vote(s)
    5.9%
  5. I'm ineligible to vote (due to age, nationality) but I'd vote for Obama

    5 vote(s)
    7.4%
  6. I'm ineligible to vote (due to age, nationality) but I'd vote for Romney

    1 vote(s)
    1.5%
  7. I'm ineligible to vote (due to age, nationality) but I'd vote "Other" (Independent/Third Party)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. I'm ineligible to vote (due to age, nationality) but I'd abstain from voting.

    1 vote(s)
    1.5%
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  1. wonderfly

    wonderfly Shaking things up a bit
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    Welcome to the 2nd thread devoted to 2012 Presidential Election here on the Cafe! To review the 2012 Presidential Primaries Discussion thread click here!

    With Mitt Romney succeeding in getting enough electoral votes tow in the nomination, the Fall campaign is set to begin! We are now Democrats versus Republicans with the Independents in the middle. It is now President Barack Obama versus Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney.

    Time for a refresher on the rules:

    THE RULES:

    1) Discussion should remain primarily on the 2012 Presidential Election. You can discuss the candidates' stand on issues, but do NOT go off on ideological RANTS. This means you can't just preach about, let's say, abortion, and how terrible it may be or how we need it. You can make a quick point like "I believe this," and have maybe a sentence or two max to back it up, but that's IT. Do not go crazy about spouting your beliefs here. That's not what this thread is for or about.

    2) Keep the focus on news. Link only to official news media sites, do not link to partisan bloggers or partisan editorials.

    3) A discussion should not go more than "Post, Response, Reply to Response" as we don't need ongoing debates between two individuals that overtake the thread. Also, no picking apart someone else's post with a line by line reply over each point made in the other person's post. Pick one or two parts of the post to quote in your response, and that's it. We don't need a drawn out idealogical debate: You can believe what you want, and others can believe what they want, but realize that you probably won't be able to change their minds.

    And the big no-no:

    4). Name calling or belittling other forum members or the candidates will not be allowed. Do not denigrate supporters of a candidate. Do not denigrate a state that supports a candidate in the general election. Do not denigrate the country if a candidate you disagree with wins a primary/caucus/general election. This is TROLLING or flamebait and may result in a warning or being banned. You can express your displeasure with the results of a poll or an election without resulting to name calling.

    5). Do not respond to flamebait or troll posts yourself!! Report the offending posts and let the moderators do their job! This thread will be CLOSED if repeat violations occur, and warnings will be issued for violations as warranted! Just like four years ago, this is an experiment on the Cafe's part, but as long as you keep these rules in mind, then this thread should go smoothly.

    6). About political cartoons- If you want to post more than one in the same post (or more than one on the same day), put them in spoiler tags. It makes it easier for people to navigate the thread.

    This thread is mainly to raise political awareness and to get all of you over 18 to the polls! Enjoy, but keep things under control.

    Thanks,

    wonderfly
     
    #1 wonderfly, Jun 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2012
  2. Aquadementia

    Aquadementia That's a lot of Mulaney!
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    Just a few words about the Wisconsin governor recall election.

    The Democrats have chosen to use a good deal of irony in their ad campaign.
    They started with ads that call Walker a "rock star" for spending so much time out of state speaking at political events. It looks bad if you call yourself a rock star, but if other people are…

    In other ads they take something Walker says and then go on to show how wrong he is. The only thing is the image on screen is his picture and underneath the quote is written out. Things like “I’m a straight shooter” and “Our reforms are working.”

    Meanwhile, the Republicans are using more direct messages with an ad about crime where they show a picture of Barrett next to the words “Child Abuse/Neglect” that look like they are torn from a police report.

    If Barrett wins it will be a big boost for those of us dreaming of being ironic in public.
    But then again the Republicans have been putting up signs saying "We stand by Walker" and I don't see how it's possible to be standing by someone who's walking. Maybe if he was pulling you in a wagon. :shrug:
     
  3. Space Cadet

    Space Cadet I'M SWEATING
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    Well, Scott Walker and his Lt. Governor will survive the recall election. No word on the state senate elections.

    Also, Obama not going to Wisconsin and only sending a tweet in support of Tom Barrett might have been the right move after all. There are some exit polling that shows that among Wisconsin voters, Obama leads over Romney. Of course, things could change in November.
     
  4. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    Classy.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/romney-campaign-bus-taunts-obama-supporters

    CLEVELAND, Ohio — Republican nominee Mitt Romney's guerrilla tactics continued Thursday, as the campaign bus circled the venue where President Barack Obama will be speaking this afternoon.


    As it passed the assembled throngs of supporters awaiting entry to the event at Cuyahoga Community College, the bus honked its horn dozens of times, before circling around to do it again. Obama supporters jeered and booed each time the bus passed the line outside of the security screening area.
     
  5. Jacob

    Jacob Moderator
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    I don't think Obama's going in the right direction with his campaign. In every campaign speech he's given lately, he just seems to make excuses and blame Bush, and talk about how bad of a governor Mitt Romney was. The problem I have with it is that those are just talking points and it makes him seem like such a politician. It is true that the massive debt under Obama is largely the fault of Bush's wars and the unemployment skyrocketed DURING Obama's term but BEFORE the stimulus went into effect. But you see, Americans won't analyze these facts when they go to vote, they'll just hear Obama making excuses and see that the economy still sucks. Obama needs to somehow make his campaign positive.

    The political ads are really disgusting. Here in Virginia I heard that by September the local news commercial breaks will bought ENTIRELY by Obama/Romney and their PACs. Why it disgusts me is because you will literally hear an Obama commercial about how terrible Romney was as governor, and then RIGHT AFTER that commercial you will hear a Romney ad about what a great governor he was. How is anyone supposed to know what to believe?
     
  6. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator
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    This was FAR too nerdy to not share. Lt. Gov David Drewhurst of Texas is in a runoff election against Ted Cruz, a Tea Party challenger. Drewhurst could have made a generic negative ad criticizing the outsider candidate for money gained from PAC's. Instead his people made this web video.

    Whoever you support...wow. Best ad concept of 2012? Maybe.

    [video=youtube;WDA097FkDEg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDA097FkDEg[/video]
     
  7. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator
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  8. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    Well, they want to win the election. A pick like Michelle Bachmann might fire up the wing nuts, but it would come with too many negatives. So you're going to get someone vanilla who fades into the background, because ideally that's what a vice president does.
     
  9. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator
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    I talked him up a bit in the other thread already but I really, really don't think Rubio deserves to be in the exciting-but-detrimental category. He comes off as smart and reasonable guy. Lack of experience is the only strike against him.

    In any case, Rob Portman rumors have a lot more credence now, though there are multiple picks similar to that one (some of Portman's fellow Senators, Governors not named Chris Christie).
     
  10. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    Maybe he comes off as too smart and reasonable, that's another possibility. The vice president needs to seem less interesting and subordinate to the president.
     
  11. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator
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    Well that story didn't last long....

     
  12. Jacob

    Jacob Moderator
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    i think Romney's trying to avoid making a pick that would be too predictable. The way the media has talked about Rubio, Romney picking him would almost be like Obama picking Hillary to be his running mate.

    Also, Rubio's already kind of running for vice president because he thinks he'll be picked. The new book, the Dream Act stunt, the massive media presence. Rubio's basically taking a lot of Republicans' attention away from Romney and onto himself, which Romney understandably wouldn't like.

    But I really don't think Romney should pick a white male politician to be his running mate. I mean Rob Portman, really? I know that sounds like reverse racism but two white guys running together is soooo 2004. And let's face it, Romney is already the "whitest" major candidate for president in a long time. At least other past white candidates have been likable and interesting on a personal level, Romney/Portman would be the most BORING ticket possible. Diversity is important, especially when you're running against someone like Obama in a country with a growing minority presence. If I were him, my short list would be Herman Cain and Bobby Jindal.

    EDIT: I see the story about Rubio was not true. But Rubio's also a boring white guy so I still stand by what I said.
     
  13. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    I'd like him to add Herman Cain to the ticket, too. Because I'm a Democrat and also because everything I've seen and heard from Romney adds up to the fact that I've come to personally despise him in a strong, almost physical way. I want to see him not only lose but be so humiliated he has to immigrate to Dubai to get away from the constant derision, being the butt of jokes, children laughing at him in the street, the term "Pulling a Romney" becoming a synonym for crushing defeat. I think picking Herman Cain as his running mate might help make that happen. :) But I don't think Romney wants that for himself.
     
  14. macattack

    macattack I see you!
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    I believe Marco Rubio will be the vice presidental nominee and what Romney and company are doing is simply trying to keep some of the suspense up before the nomination is actually announced. But the way Rubio's already acting makes me think he already knows he's going to be VP so he's trying to put together as many proposals as possible so they get merged into the Romney campaign. Like it or not Marco Rubio is an ideas machine and Romney will likely pick & choose some of Rubio's ideas and incorporate them into his campaign. And that will only improve the Romney ticket because Rubio is a moderate on immigration issues but brings enough conservatism on other issues that it doesn't look like Romney's selling out from the POVS of the Tea Partiers and the religious conservatives.

    Using the Rubio "inexperience" knock is also not completely helpful for Obama. After all a knock against Obama was his own inexperience before becoming President.

    I also don't agree with the method Obama used for forcing the immigration changes. That sets a dangerous precedent for presidential power and unless it gets defeated or otherwise stopped it opens up the opportunity for both Republican and Democratic presidents to similarly subvert Congress and abuse the law. However, it also shows how cynical of a politician Obama is revealing himself to be. He waited three and a half months to do something like that and for the first two years he had a completely Democratic Congress to ram something like this through. Why didn't he do it back then? Politics, that's why. Even if the attempt does get stopped because it is such a subversion of the law, he just needs it to hold out for five months and if not he'll just use the "unfair" card to rally the votes. That is what he is going to do if the Supreme Court overturns any part of Obamacare.

    But he could have held onto his Democratic majorities if he had pushed immigration reform instead of health care. That would have been smarter and classier.
     
  15. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    Democrats reintroduced the DREAM Act two months after Obama took office. Having a majority didn't help, Republicans blocked it, going as far as a filibuster twice when it looked like Democrats would use their Senate majority to make it happen, and have continued to make any progress on it impossible. You can say they should have tried harder, but you can't say they didn't try.
     
  16. macattack

    macattack I see you!
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    They could've rammed it through, filibuster or no filibuster. I think the GOP would have blinked in the end. If they had continued this over and over it would have cost them the Hispanic vote for a generation or longer. It already probably cost Romney the Hispanic vote even if Marco Rubio becomes the VP nominee.

    Anyway, there's conspiracy theories being thrown around because of this executive order here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...order-national-defense-resources-preparedness

    Any thoughts on it?
     
  17. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    No, if they could have rammed it through, they would have. They came a couple of votes short of the supermajority needed to break the filibuster and that was that, Jack. Right after that we had the new Congressmen from the 2010 election take office and any hope of the Dream Act's passage evaporated, because Republicans care more about the white anti-immigrant vote than they do about the hispanic vote.

    The screwed up thing is that the Dream Act was originally Republican-supported legislation. It just goes to show how far to the right the Republican party has slid, and how out of touch they are.

    Conspiracy theories are for idiots. They always assume a hypercompetence that doesn't really exist in government.

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ndrp.asp
     
  18. macattack

    macattack I see you!
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    The odd thing is that Marco Rubio is working on another version of the DREAM act right now, so some members of the Republican Party are changing their tune. You can argue that not enough are changing their tune (many of those beholden to the Tea Party certainly am not and probably never will) but some Republicans are waking up and realization and they're going to lose the Hispanic vote for generations if they don't do something now. And considering how huge the Hispanic vote is going to be, the Republicans will stand to lose every election post 2024 or so unless the country goes completely to hell under a Democratic administration (of course, if we don't get off the track we're on regarding Social Security and the debt, etc., the country will go to hell). So the GOP needs to do something and I would not be surprised if they wind up doing so if Romney manages to pull out a victory.

    I will continue to play devil's advocate (somebody has to) by pointing out that Obama just invoked executive privilege over revealing the classified Fast & Furious documents, which will likely hurt him: http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-i...s-documents-142550887--abc-news-politics.html
     
  19. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    Again, they will never jeopardize the white anti-immigration vote to court hispanics. The scary immigrant is one of their staple fear mongering issues. They will lose the hispanic vote and become irrelevant. It's inevitable self-destruction.

    They may try things like Rubio as VP to make some disingenuous noises to the hispanic community, but they'll never allow real change that would upset their base. You will note that now that Rubio is getting some VP heat, he is killing his watered-down version of the DREAM Act and blaming it on Obama. Rubio as VP wouldn't make the Dream Act more likely anyway, Romney has said he'd veto it.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/19/2856838/sen-marco-rubio-may-scrap-his.html

    I don't get that devil's advocate comment. Devil's advocate means you don't necessarily agree with a position, you're just putting it forward to debate. If you mean that you think you're the only anti-Obama person in the thread look again. It's nearly evenly split.

    Speaking of Cain, here's all the news anyone ever needs to hear about him, anymore, ever.

    toonzone's censor messes the link up. Replace the stars with the f word.
     
  20. macattack

    macattack I see you!
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    You are assuming a rank, uniform stupidity and incessant rigidity out of a party that has existed well over a hundred years, has undergone a consistent evolution along with the Democratic Party, and has intelligent men and women working in it even now. This is Bill Maher's "Party of the Apes" philosophy here. You're assuming that an entire party would be so stupid as to instigate its own self-destruction over a base that is gradually going to fade away. They see it and they will adjust with time like what has happened to both the Dems and the GOP over history.

    I lean to the left on social issues and to the right on economic and foreign/military issues. I don't agree with the right wing on everything.

    And you are dodging what I feel is a very damning report regarding Fast & Furious. This pretty much shows there is something that is being hidden and Obama is either protecting Holder or is protecting himself. It's an effort to buy time until the election runs its course, and I think it's because the Obama Administration may believe it is a scandalous document (or could be skewed that way) that could derail the administration and its agenda.
     
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