Reflections on [as]' early years

[hobbyfan]

Ya know, I was thinking earlier today about the beginnings of Adult Swim. I've never been a big fan. I once fell asleep trying to watch Cowboy Bebop, probably because I'd been awake for nearly 20 hours that day, and.....ahhhh, skip it! Anyway, I thought I'd share a few thoughts. Your actual mileage may vary.

Space Ghost: Coast to Coast---The one that started it all.

Concept: Out of work superhero becomes talk show host. And a mediocre one at that.

Pros: Parody of the Late Show w/David Letterman, although Paul Shaffer never has been abused the way Zorak was. Foundation for the early [as] line.

Cons: Rotoscoping. 'Nuff said there. Seemed like they only had certain stock poses for SG that were done to death, based on what few eps I saw, that were also used on its sister series, Cartoon Planet.

Appreciation: The earliest TV shows, like in radio, usually ran for 15 minutes before evolving to the 30-60 minute format we're all accustomed to. In that regard, Coast to Coast was a throwback.

Should [as] bring it back to the air? That's one I'm opening for discussion among the rest of y'all.

Sealab 2021:

Concept: Supposedly set 1 year after the 1972 Sealab 2020 series. Too much chaos.

Pros: That it lasted 4 years, subsisting strictly on 1 year's worth of material (Sealab 2020 was cancelled after 1 season), was a miracle.

Cons: Total lack of respect for the original material, characters included, which is a hallmark of [as]. The 15 minute format didn't work for me on this show.

Appreciation: To borrow a line from In Living Color's Blaine & Antoine, Hated it! It was a harbinger of things to come from [as].

Aqua Teen Hunger Force:

Concept: Parody of common superhero convention at first, later dropped in favor of general silliness.

Pros: Still in production. Spawned a 2007 feature film, with a 2nd film due next year, per Wikipedia. Longest running series since the official [as] launch.

Cons: Flash animation looked more like animated colorforms in the first year, which never works as well as it should. Rotoscoping seems to be a problem from what I've seen, given that Carl, the ATHF's neighbor, seems to only have one basic look. Has he ever worn anything to cover that wifebeater t-shirt?

Appreciation: Not much, but I'll give them points for longevity. Would be interested in seeing them meet CN characters like Johnny Bravo, just for kicks.

The Brak Show:

Concept: Parody of sitcoms from the 50's-70's. Former space pirate (from Space Ghost) settles on Earth with his mom and a human father.

Pros: The most recurring theme seemed to be Brak was Beaver to Zorak as Eddie Haskell. After this, there is no way you can use Brak's original incarnation ever again, unless you dismiss this as an alternate universe, which it probably is anyway.

Cons: Ended too soon, when there was plenty of material to be mined. Did they ever get around to parodying Happy Days or Mork and Mindy? Noting the size difference between the father figure and Brak and his mom, one must assume that Mommy remarried upon hitting Earth, and......!

Appreciation: Deserved more time per show. I mean that, seriously. 15 minutes wasn't enough for Brak, because it forced the writers to rush the gags and what plots existed. Hmmmmm. This has reclamation project written all over it!

Should [as] put it back on the air? Absolutely!

Harvey Birdman, Attorney-at-Law:

Concept: Out of work superhero now works for a law firm while another (Mightor) is a judge, as is one of Birdman's enemies.

Pros: It got Birdman out of obscurity, but that's about it.
Cons: To say it was a parody of courtroom dramas would be an insult to the genre. Way too much disrespect to icons like Scooby-Doo, Jonny Quest, and Yogi Bear, among others. The producers went way out of their way to make a mockery of cherished fan favorites for cheap laughs.

Appreciation: None. I tried to watch "Turner Classic Birdman" on demand yesterday and had to change the channel halfway. It was just awful. Robert Osborne, who should know better, signed on for this drivel and mispronounced Birdman.

Did anyone at [as] actually understand that there would be people who would take offense? I just don't believe they did.

Discuss.

[Bradyrands]

Now I have to disagree with you on Birdman. I love that show and while the first season had its meh moments everything afterward was great. Actually "Turner Classic Birdman" is one of my favorites, and I love how they point out certain animation mistakes.

The only thing that bothers me is some of the voice acting. Why did they totally change Peter Potoma's voice? I'll admit, I love his voice in Harvey Birdman and works for his role on the show, but they changed it completely. And, at times the H-B character voices can leave a little-bit to be desired.

Just my opinion. And what do you mean by rotoscoping? I read that means you take video of a human then trace over it with your paper, but, in SGCTC and ATHF? What would they use for Meatwad..an exercise ball?

Yes the stock poses (from what I've seen in Space Ghost) are incredibly over-used but I think its kinda funny.

I also love Sealab and I have not actually seen the original. But yes 4 seasons out of 16 episodes is pretty incredible.

The Brak Show, can't really say much except I love it. I love the voice of Brak and the little musical numbers.

ATHF I like this one too. Can't really say much else.

My opinions.

[miraimike]

Had the main VA of Sealab 2021 not died, the show would still be on today. It was way more nuanced than Harvey Birdman and Season 1 Aqua Teen.

[hobbyfan]

Originally Posted by Bradyrands

Now I have to disagree with you on Birdman. I love that show and while the first season had its meh moments everything afterward was great. Actually "Turner Classic Birdman" is one of my favorites, and I love how they point out certain animation mistakes.

The only thing that bothers me is some of the voice acting. Why did they totally change Peter Potoma's voice? I'll admit, I love his voice in Harvey Birdman and works for his role on the show, but they changed it completely. And, at times the H-B character voices can leave a little-bit to be desired.

Just my opinion. And what do you mean by rotoscoping? I read that means you take video of a human then trace over it with your paper, but, in SGCTC and ATHF? What would they use for Meatwad..an exercise ball?

Yes the stock poses (from what I've seen in Space Ghost) are incredibly over-used but I think its kinda funny.

I also love Sealab and I have not actually seen the original. But yes 4 seasons out of 16 episodes is pretty incredible.

The Brak Show, can't really say much except I love it. I love the voice of Brak and the little musical numbers.

ATHF I like this one too. Can't really say much else.

My opinions.

Rotoscoping, as I understand it, is the repetitive use of certain scenes in order to save on drawing new backgrounds and things like that.

I'm aware they changed some of the voice cast on Harvey Birdman (i.e. Peter Potamus), but since I didn't follow the show regularly, I can't judge.

[Beat]

Originally Posted by miraimike

Had the main VA of Sealab 2021 not died, the show would still be on today. It was way more nuanced than Harvey Birdman and Season 1 Aqua Teen.

If Goz was still alive, the show wouldn't have self-destructed upon itself and awful writing. We would have never gotten Archer though.

[Sprocket]

For a guy that isn't into Adult Swim, you sure know a lot about it.

[Rick Jones]

Originally Posted by hobbyfan

Rotoscoping, as I understand it, is the repetitive use of certain scenes in order to save on drawing new backgrounds and things like that.

I believe rotoscoping is when they use live action actors and then trace over to get more realistic movement. The thing about overuse of backgrounds or poses or actions in any of the AS shows based on classic H-B is that the original shows pretty much did the same thing. I'm a crazy H-B fan and I enjoyed these shows a lot. They're not about disrepecting the original shows. The people that made these shows are obviously huge fans, too. They're just having some irreverant fun with these characters. These aren't relaunches of franchises or anything; they're just parody shows.

[hobbyfan]

Originally Posted by Rick Jones

I believe rotoscoping is when they use live action actors and then trace over to get more realistic movement. The thing about overuse of backgrounds or poses or actions in any of the AS shows based on classic H-B is that the original shows pretty much did the same thing. I'm a crazy H-B fan and I enjoyed these shows a lot. They're not about disrepecting the original shows. The people that made these shows are obviously huge fans, too. They're just having some irreverant fun with these characters. These aren't relaunches of franchises or anything; they're just parody shows.

Irreverent? No, I don't think so. In some cases (see certain eps of Harvey Birdman), they play to the internet. Old school fans like you and I see things differently. That's understandable. If the creative personnel were really huge fans as you surmise, why tear down these icons for a few cheap laughs?

[miraimike]

Originally Posted by Beat

If Goz was still alive, the show wouldn't have self-destructed upon itself and awful writing. We would have never gotten Archer though.

The last season was so bad...

[SpaceCowboy]

The early years had a lot to offer. More anime and better written WS originals. In recent years we've had good shows that deserve their own praise (like The Boondocks and The Venture Bros.) but the block sometimes has too many shows that rely on gruesome violence and shock value (like Squidbillies or Tim & Eric). There's also more good anime out there that AS just doesn't pick up. Just my opinion.

[Speedy Boris]

(note I'm only talking about shows that debuted in the first couple of months of AS)

Back when Adult Swim debuted, the standout shows for me were Home Movies and Harvey Birdman. Both premises had promise and got me to laugh, especially in Birdman's case.

Brak Show was fitfully amusing (and certainly better than Brak Presents The Brak Show Starring Brak), but didn't grab me like Space Ghost did. The dad was the best character. Brak himself, though, was kind of bland. In retrospect, this never really belonged on Adult Swim, even though Williams Street made it. Take away the cursing, which seemed tacked on to be "adult", and this could've easily passed for CN material.

I didn't care for Sealab's debut episode, "Chickmate", aside from a couple jokes. My opinion of Sealab improved a bit as the season progressed, but it was never one of my favorites, and season 2 actually caused me to stop watching the show entirely.

[Desensitized]

Harvey Birdman and Home Movies were (and still are) my favorite things to come out of AS. Though how Space Ghost managed to stay awesome throughout it's entire run is a mystery, too.

I don't think Harvey Birdman was playing to the internet crowd, since at the time it came out, it wasn't as big as it is now. It was an adult show on cartoon network meant to hook fans of classic HB properties and hopefully hook some new ones. I mean it definitely hooked me, and at the time I didn't know much about HB.

Sealab 2021 was funny, but I completely lost interest after season 2 and Goz died. And considering how great Frisky Dingo and Archer are, I still wonder how they managed to drop the ball so hard on it.

ATHF completely lost it after the movie, IMO. It ran out of steam and simply has nothing else left to tell. I can still watch the pre-movie episodes and enjoy the quirkiness, but after the movie, the charm and fun went out the window. The original show was insane, but it was still coherent despite the chaos usually going on.

The Brak Show always felt average to me. I'm not sure why, but I always saw it as the generic AS show. Of course, I would love to have something of it's quality out now on the block, but that's increasingly looking like a pipe dream.

In summation, early AS was very fresh at the time. It was clearly a block made by animation fans for adults (and adult animation fans), as opposed to the block it is now. Which is to just be as shocking and random as possible.

[Silverstar]

Ah, early [adult swim]. The memories...

I enjoyed Space Ghost: Coast to Coast back when it was part of Cartoon Network proper; it was one of the few bright spots in the lineup back then, since it came at a time when Toon was little more than the Hanna-Barbera Reruns Channel. So when it migrated to [as], I followed. It started to get a little too random and stonerish down the line, but the early ones were great.

Sealab 2021 was funny, but the show completely lost its' mojo with the passing of Harry Goz. Captain Hazel Murphy was the glue that held Sealab together, and when Goz died, the show died right along with him. Harry's son Michael tried to fill the void as the show's new captain Tornado Shanks, and to be fair, Michael didn't do a terrible job, but no one could replace Harry. [as] should've just pulled the plug on 2021 when Harry Goz passed away. It was like trying to continue The Royal Family without Redd Foxx or 8 Simple Rules without John Ritter.

The early Aqua Teens were great. I second the statement that all of ATHF's quirkiness and charm flew out the window after the movie. The early shows were weird, but there was still a thread of cohesion that just isn't present on the show nowadays. Aqua Teen unfortunately is another show which got too stonerish as it went on.

I may be in the minority, but I never liked The Brak Show. The show just never worked for me, mainly because I never thought Brak was deserving of his own show. Brak worked as a lunatic supporting player in the Coast to Coast universe, because back then he was just loud and insane. For The Brak Show, the writers had to replace much of Brak's craziness with likability; he went from being a lunatic who occasionally had heart to a guy with heart who was occasionally a lunatic. Brak became so bland that in short order he was reduced to the role of supporting player in his own show, playing second fiddle to Zorak, Dad and Thundercleese. Also, I don't know whether Marsha Crenshaw left the show willingly or was fired, but when Joanna Daniel replaced Crenshaw as the voice of Brak's mom, the character became completely unlikable. While Crenshaw's Mom was quirky but sweet, Daniel's Mom was a humorless nag. So that show never did anything for me.

[Creme]

Ah Adult Swim's early years. That's something fun to reflect upon. I don't even watch AS, I haven't watched them religiously since they got rid of the first AS Saturdays many moons ago, but still I remember it like it was yesterday.
I remember how I first got introduced to Adult Swim. They were having a Yu Yu Hakusho marathon one Saturday and I turned it on and heard Yusuke say a swear word and my eyes just got wide cause I'd never seen that before on Cartoon Network, but I saw at the bottom of the screen it said "adult swim" in white letters so during the break I went to Cablevision's TV guide channel and found out the name of the show "Yu Yu Hakusho".

Anyway, I was hooked after that. Tuned in the next Saturday and I watched the whole thing and loved all the cartoons except Cowboy Bebop which I didn't particularly care for since I was only 13. Loved Gundam 0083, Mobile Suit Gundam and Yu Yu Hakusho though. Those 3 were Adult Swim to me. And then later I loved Inuyasha, it became my definite favorite and Gundam 0080 was awesome (even though it was only on very briefly)

As for the Sunday comedy portion I liked it too at first, Mission Hill and Home Movies were definately my favorites there. But I just loved the Saturday AS better because it was just like Toonami except better, they had cool hellish music from outer space and flashing graphics to announce the lineups. and the robotic voice, can't forget that.

I think my favorite early Adult Swim memory was when they played Char's Counterattack. The ending made me cry. A Cartoon had never moved me like that. And I never thought that Amuro would....

Anyway, eventually all good things come to an end. I was devastated when they canned the Saturday AS and put it on weeknights. Not only did they put it past my school night bedtime and stop me from watching what I thought would be new episodes of YYH eventually and Inuyasha, but they also killed what, to me, was the best thing on Cartoon Network at the time.


Anyway that's my little rambling for tonight. I'm glad I at least have those memories stuck in my head. Nothing could beat the old Adult Swim for me

[PC!]

Originally Posted by Silverstar

I may be in the minority, but I never liked The Brak Show. The show just never worked for me, mainly because I never thought Brak was deserving of his own show. Brak worked as a lunatic supporting player in the Coast to Coast universe, because back then he was just loud and insane. For The Brak Show, the writers had to replace much of Brak's craziness with likability; he went from being a lunatic who occasionally had heart to a guy with heart who was occasionally a lunatic. Brak became so bland that in short order he was reduced to the role of supporting player in his own show, playing second fiddle to Zorak, Dad and Thundercleese. Also, I don't know whether Marsha Crenshaw left the show willingly or was fired, but when Joanna Daniel replaced Crenshaw as the voice of Brak's mom, the character became completely unlikable. While Crenshaw's Mom was quirky but sweet, Daniel's Mom was a humorless nag. So that show never did anything for me.

I never cared for The Brak Show much either, for the reasons you mentioned. Brak was much funnier in his Adult Swim News segments. Classic Brak insanity, there.

Also, Marsha Crenshaw, IIRC, left the show willingly because she had other commitments.

[Totally_Insaney]

NOTE: I didn't see any of these shows when they first started

I haven't seen a lot of Space Ghost, but I own the first season on DVD and it's pretty funny. I'd like to see some of the later episodes that were made for [as] and not CN.
I love Home Movies, it's one of my favorite shows. It always makes me laugh.
Never watched Sealab but i find Archer (H Jon Benjamin!) and Frisky Dingo hilarious.
Harvey Birdman is genius. I haven't seen it in a while, I'm going to start watching it again tho'.
I liked the first few episodes of The Brak Show but I thought it was downhill from there. As someone said before, Brak's dad was the funniest character on the show.
Aqua Teen is great. I agree with Desensitized about how it went downhill after the movie. I still tune in to the newer episodes, but they don't hold a candle to the old ones.

[hobbyfan]

As my memory serves, Home Movies wasn't picked up until after [as] launched and was on the air a few weeks. It was the first show picked up from another network (UPN), and this investment turned out to be a good one, since new eps were made in a more traditional line animation style, replacing the Squigglevision format. I left it off my list because it wasn't created for [as].

Not all of [as]' off-network acquisitions have worked out (see: Ripping Friends), and they let Futurama get away (to Comedy Central, which reaps the benefits with new eps later this year).

[spidey4545]

Originally Posted by hobbyfan

As my memory serves, Home Movies wasn't picked up until after [as] launched and was on the air a few weeks. It was the first show picked up from another network (UPN), and this investment turned out to be a good one, since new eps were made in a more traditional line animation style, replacing the Squigglevision format. I left it off my list because it wasn't created for [as].

Not all of [as]' off-network acquisitions have worked out (see: Ripping Friends), and they let Futurama get away (to Comedy Central, which reaps the benefits with new eps later this year).

Actually, the episode "Director's Cut" of Home Movies was the first show ever aired on Adult Swim way back on September 2, 2001. UPN had only aired the previous 5 episodes back in 1999, so the remaining 8 episodes were all new when they aired on Adult Swim.

[DisneyDusty]

Yes, I think early Adult Swim was the best, I caught it after Coast to Coast and I think it was actually after I saw the first commercial for Aqua Teen Hunger Force. I was young at the time, probably in late middle school or early high school, and it looked so new, and weird, and adult, and funny. It was talking fries, meat, and a milkshake! I just had to see that! I asked my mom's permission and they said ok. I also remember the Adult Swim intros and inbetweens of old people swimming, and I thought those were great, and that was part of how the whole original Adult Swim felt. But maybe Adult Swim has realized they're really mainly being watched by teenagers and college kids, so they have changed.

The classic shows turned into parody shows aren't meant to cater to fans of the original classic cartoons, really, otherwise why not just make new episodes of the originals?

One TELL TALE sign these are not meant to be like the originals for fans of the originals is those original cartoons weren't meant for adults only!

No, those shows are having "adult fun" with the original classic shows. Yes, making fun of them, but also having fun with them. They even make fun of things about the shows you knew were true, which is even more funny.

I love Scooby Doo and get a little sad or hurt when they make my favorite classic character look bad or do bad things to them, but I know it's not "really" them. I know it's something different, for laughs. Because I just want to laugh. Occasionally they make you think, too, but they really just need to make you laugh, inside or outloud.

I love Harvey Birdman. I think it's genius, too. One time a character was walking the beach and a lobster flew past his face and made a "caw" sound like a seagull. It was the best.

Aqua Teen Hunger Force is also awesome and genius and I love it, it must be my favorite. I just wish that they still tried to be super heroes sometimes. But you know, what's really funny is that they just gave up on that. They became what real people become, lazy and selfish and not wanting to save the world! But that's about the only thing real about them, and why the show is so great. It's something new, and a whole new funny.

[miraimike]

I don't think it would be particularly hard to bring back the "glory days" of adult swim. All the block really needs is more entropy. The block is so segmented and predictable now.

PS: ...and who cares about treating little known and cared-about characters with respect and reverence? Sealab 2021 took legitimately cookie-cutter and boring source material and was able to turn it into something unquestionably more entertaining. If you spend too much time tip-toeing around "the classics", you'll never be able to create anything meaningful. Fred freaking Flintstone isn't the be-all and end-all of animation, you know.