Digimon Adventure 02 on CR and Funi Talkback (spoilers)

[garfield15]

Digimon Adventure 02

Three years after the events of the first series, With most of the original characters now in junior high, the Digital World was supposedly secure and peaceful. However, a new evil has appeared in the form of the Digimon Kaiser. This new villain is different - he’s a human just like the DigiDestined. The Digimon Kaiser has been enslaving all Digimon in sight with Black Rings and Dark Towers and, to make things worse, has somehow made regular Digivolution impossible. Three new children are chosen to save the Digital World and, along with Takeru andHiKari, make up the new generation of DigiDestined.

Episode page here: http://www.crunchyroll.com/library/D...e_02?src=trail

Okay so since the regular talkbacks get so little posts as someone mentioned, I just made this talkback for the remainder of Crunchyroll's broadcast of the show. So this week it's...



EPISODE 12: "Duel on the Digimon Ranch"

Previously: Daisuke learned the true meaning of sacrifice for friendship and was able to armor-digivolve Veemon into Raidramon to save a corrupted MetalGreymon from the Digimon Kaiser's evil clutches. Where will the adventure lead them now?

Review comes later. (not looking foward to this one)

[veemonjosh]

First off, I'd like to fully apologize for not doing these as of late. The holidays completely threw me off, and then I just plum forgot.

Also, we should be getting close to one of my favorite episodes of this arc...

[Scirel]

Ah, this one. The very first digimon episode that added absolutely NOTHING to the overall plot and whose only redeeming quality was seeing Sora in the Tennis outfit.


If the next one is the one I think it is, though, it will more than make up for it.

[garfield15]

Originally Posted by veemonjosh

Also, we should be getting close to one of my favorite episodes of this arc...

Dagomon, right? I'm with you there


So in this week's episode, NOTHING IMPORTANT HAPPENED! NOTHING! There was nothing added to the plot, no real development of characters, nothing! When I saw this episode for the first time, I felt ripped off. I hated Starmon's voice, I hated Revolmon's voice and the episode itself was just plain stupid in general. I mean, yeah sure, it's great to be able to hear the original voices for this instead of those things that I think were trying to be western accents and failing horribly in the dub, but honestly it doesn't really matter due to how mediocre the episode itself was. Come on Toei, you guys made Adventure, you can do better than this. You know what this episode was for? It was to show Raidramon again. Because see, if they had gone straight to next episode, we wouldn't have seen Raidramon fight again like from last episode.

Four things I did like though.
1. "JUSTICE! JUSTICE! JUSTICE! JUSTICE! JUSTICE! JUSTICE! JUS...oh I'm out of bullets"
2. Tailmon grooming herself
3. Revolmon...um...proving himself that he didn't have an Evil Ring
4. Evolution music (but that one's obvious)

Now normally I would put hilarious dub moments here but I really don't feel like hearing those two really bad voices again.

(Does anyone else think that Starmon's attack is a bit overkill)

[FUNiOP]

Does this talkback also apply to those of us with Anime Memberships, who can already watch the full series?

[veemonjosh]

Originally Posted by FUNiOP

Does this talkback also apply to those of us with Anime Memberships, who can already watch the full series?

I don't think so. I mean, sure, 98% of us have already seen the series in it's entirety, but it's more fair to those who can't pay to be able to discuss it at their pace, especially due to this being the first time it's been legally available uncut in the US.

[FUNiOP]

Originally Posted by veemonjosh

I don't think so. I mean, sure, 98% of us have already seen the series in it's entirety, but it's more fair to those who can't pay to be able to discuss it at their pace, especially due to this being the first time it's been legally available uncut in the US.

Alright, fair enough.

[Light Lucario]

Yeah, there really wasn't anything too important going on in this episode. It felt kind of weak and it dragged on a bit too long. Though, I do think that Revolmon was funny throughout the episode. That was one of the few good things about this episode, along with Hikari and Tailmon spending some quiet time together and the evolution music, which still rocks. One could argue that Kaiser still working on the evil spiral could be new, but I don't think so since that could have been explained in a much better episode and in a much better way.

Now, I'm questioning if I really do think that Adventure 02 is better than 01. Though, this is the worse arc in the series anyway and it does get better during the later arcs. The next episode is the one about the dark ocean, which was so interesting yet they never explained it at all. Still, it should be a good episode to watch and I'll be looking foreword to it.

[Undrave]

I think this episode was a really funny distraction! I think its purpose was really to show that the new kids can handle themselves even without Hikari and Takeru.

Plus it had Sora in her tennis outfit XD

Starmon wanting to hang the kids was pretty hardcore oO

It also reminded me of that fic where Revolmon actually wanted to play STRIP POKER with the girls

[Scirel]

Now, I'm questioning if I really do think that Adventure 02 is better than 01. Though, this is the worse arc in the series anyway and it does get better during the later arcs. The next episode is the one about the dark ocean, which was so interesting yet they never explained it at all. Still, it should be a good episode to watch and I'll be looking foreword to it.

The fandom consensus is that 01 is better than 02, mainly due to factors such as:


1. Daisuke, Miyako, and Iori not being nearly as developed and complex as the 01 cast.( I still admire 01's seemingly herculean feat of properly developing EIGHT main charachters!)

2. The kaiser arc being long and mostly uneventful, combined with the lack of urgency it brought.

3. Leaving the fascinating issue of the dark ocean and daemon completely unresolved.

4. the ending

[garfield15]

Originally Posted by Scirel

4. the ending

That's probably the biggest one to me due to what could have happened during that episode and what actually did happen.

[Scirel]

Originally Posted by garfield15

That's probably the biggest one to me due to what could have happened during that episode and what actually did happen.

basically every issue that the ending brought up was met with heavy diagreement towards all of the fandom.

The fate of the world made no sense


The Jobs of some of them made absolutely NO SENSE, and some were insulting. (Although many of them sounded about right or decent)

Spoiler:

Tai, Izzy, Joe, Ken, Daisuke, Tk, Kari and Iori all had decent jobs

And the couples nearly started WWIII on megchan's board. XD

Spoiler:

Writer 1: Here's an awesome Idea! Instead of getting the cast together in couples, let's marry 95% of them to random people that nobody cares about, thus destroying everyone's ships all at once!

Writer 2: BRILLIANT! except Miyako and Ken, since scirel likes that one

Writer 1: Fine, Fine, but then she HAS to be relegated to being a 1950's housewife stereotype. Can`t go making too many people happy.

Writer 2: Deal.

[Light Lucario]

Originally Posted by Undrave

I think this episode was a really funny distraction! I think its purpose was really to show that the new kids can handle themselves even without Hikari and Takeru.

Oh yeah. I forgot that this was the first episode that Hikari and Takeru weren't part of the action of the episode. Good point.

Originally Posted by Undrave

Starmon wanting to hang the kids was pretty hardcore oO

I thought that was really intense too. I forgot what he wanted to do to the kids in the dub, but I'm fairly sure that they didn't mention hanging them or showing the scene where Starmon prepared their hangings.

Originally Posted by Scirel

The fandom consensus is that 01 is better than 02, mainly due to factors such as:


1. Daisuke, Miyako, and Iori not being nearly as developed and complex as the 01 cast.( I still admire 01's seemingly herculean feat of properly developing EIGHT main charachters!)

2. The kaiser arc being long and mostly uneventful, combined with the lack of urgency it brought.

3. Leaving the fascinating issue of the dark ocean and daemon completely unresolved.

4. the ending

Those are good and valid points. I thought that the new cast had some development, though I definitely agree that they weren't as complex and I don't recall as much development for them either. You bring up a good point that Adventure 01 did a good job with developing eight main characters. I also completely agree with the Kaiser arc and leaving the dark ocean unanswered. They could have made the Kaiser arc a bit shorter, or at least have more interesting and intense episodes like the Agumon arc, the dark ocean episode and the conclusion to the arc.

Despite the amount of hate the ending has from the fanbase, I never really thought that it was too disappointing. I can understand and see that they could have done a lot more with that ending, but I was content with it too. Outside of some pairings not actually happening and some of the random jobs the kids got as adults, I thought that it was a cute finale. It was cheesy, but I thought that was the main point of the ending.

Maybe I'm mixing up with liking the whole series with really liking BlackWarGreymon, which was the best part of 02 for me. Though, I would have to finish watching this series and then Adventure 01 to make a more proper conclusion since my opinions could easily have changed since I last saw those episodes when I was around fourteen or fifteen.

[Scirel]

All of 02's charachter development went to Ken, who was by far 02's best charachter. Dai, Iori, and Miyako's backstories and problems were barely touched upon. 01 gave every charachter personal insights and epiphanies, which was awesome.

[garfield15]

Originally Posted by Light Lucario

Oh yeah. I forgot that this was the first episode that Hikari and Takeru weren't part of the action of the episode. Good point.

I think they were left out of this episode due to the drama that takes place next episode.

And for me when it came to the ending, sure the couples and weird conclusion was one thing but here was my main issue...

Spoiler:

"I want to cook noodles" BOOM HEADSHOT!

[zoombie]

Yeah this episode was about the newbies going on an adventures without Takeru and Hikari, and gave them a chance to have more of the spotlight. Let's face it, Takeru and Hikari are very dominent characters.

I actully liked this episode, it was a great comic relief after the whole Dark Greymon arc, and just before the next episode which is argueably the darkest episode of the series.

Though I like episode 14 better.

[Undrave]

Hmm...we don't have a lot left for this arc right? The dark ocean, A couple of Digimental episodes, the Little Edo episode (which is rather pointless too) and then we move on to the final part of the arc which is what...3 episodes I believe? So seven episodes left?

[Light Lucario]

Originally Posted by Scirel

All of 02's charachter development went to Ken, who was by far 02's best charachter. Dai, Iori, and Miyako's backstories and problems were barely touched upon. 01 gave every charachter personal insights and epiphanies, which was awesome.

That's true. Even though the Kaiser arc is so long, I've heard people say that it was there to develop Ken's character. Though, I think that the writers could have made it shorter, or overall better, to make that same point. He was the only one of the new main characters that really had a developed background. The only thing I remember for Iori was about his father and how that connected to the last few episodes. Other than their siblings, I don't remember much about Miyako or Daisuke's backgrounds.

Originally Posted by garfield15

I think they were left out of this episode due to the drama that takes place next episode.

And for me when it came to the ending, sure the couples and weird conclusion was one thing but here was my main issue...

Considering that the next episode focuses more on Takeru and Hikari, that would balance things out. As for your main issue, I can definitely understand that. I like how Daisuke is so carefree, but that job of his was really weird and it came out of nowwhere.

[zoombie]

Originally Posted by Light Lucario

That's true. Even though the Kaiser arc is so long, I've heard people say that it was there to develop Ken's character. Though, I think that the writers could have made it shorter, or overall better, to make that same point. He was the only one of the new main characters that really had a developed background. The only thing I remember for Iori was about his father and how that connected to the last few episodes. Other than their siblings, I don't remember much about Miyako or Daisuke's backgrounds.

The problem I had with that thinking, is Ken did not develop at all till the end of the Kaiser arc. He is the same person without any character development at the begin of the series and the beginning of the last episode of the arc, and than they cram all of the development in the second half of the last episode of Kaiser arc.

Two characters that got on my nerves later on was Miyako and Iroi, first with their cold unforgiven attitude for someone. But what really got on my nerves is how far they went with being pacifese. I don't mind a pacifese (spelling?) attitude, but it went too far that it was ridiculous. What person in their right mind would just sit there and let bad guys hurt and maybe kill innocent people because good lord we can't kill anyone. They crossed the lines of pacifese to altra liberal wimps. They were as bad as Aang from Avatar. "I can't kill a digimon good or evil, but it is okay if a bunch of innocent people get serious injuried and some even killed because that is a real Digimon."

My thoughts on the next villains in the series after Ken speaking of bad guys.

Spoiler:

I couldn't help but love Mummymon. There is some inner sweetness in the guy. Deep down he is a good guy for sure. He was just born under the wrong circumstances.

Even though they never did anything to redem themselfs, showed no remouce for anything, I felt sorry or sad when Arukenimon and Mummymon died. And I was furious with BeliaVamdemon for killing them, almost if not equally for him killing good digimon Wizzmon, Pumpmon, and Gotsumon. When those characters die I vengefully wanted Vamdemon to suffer.

Arukenimon and Mummymon ended up being good guys or not? The writers seemed to want us not to hate them at the very end, and feel some what bad for their deaths. If you compare those that died at the hands of Vamdemon, Arukenimon and Mummymon's death resembles Wizzmon, Pumpmon, and Gotsumon's deaths more than PicoDevimon.

I wish the ending would have given a more happy hopfully ending for them. In those 50 years at some point, they should have been reborn as good digimon. If the Evil Legendary Warrior can have a redemption reincarnation, why not them?

[Light Lucario]

Originally Posted by zoombie

The problem I had with that thinking, is Ken did not develop at all till the end of the Kaiser arc. He is the same person without any character development at the begin of the series and the beginning of the last episode of the arc, and than they cram all of the development in the second half of the last episode of Kaiser arc.

I understand that. I guess that there wasn't much of any sign for Ken's development until near the end of that arc. The writers could have made that development less rushed, but I guess they just didn't want to go with that.

Originally Posted by zoombie

Two characters that got on my nerves later on was Miyako and Iroi, first with their cold unforgiven attitude for someone. But what really got on my nerves is how far they went with being pacifese. I don't mind a pacifese (spelling?) attitude, but it went too far that it was ridiculous. What person in their right mind would just sit there and let bad guys hurt and maybe kill innocent people because good lord we can't kill anyone. They crossed the lines of pacifese to altra liberal wimps. They were as bad as Aang from Avatar. "I can't kill a digimon good or evil, but it is okay if a bunch of innocent people get serious injuried and some even killed because that is a real Digimon."

I can definitely understand that for Iori. When they first met Ken, after learning he was the Digimon Kaiser, I thought that calling him a disgrace to humanity, or something of that nature, was kind of harsh. Sure, Ken was being a complete jerk, but that just felt too much. As for Miyako, I didn't think that she was so unforgiving of Ken. She was one of the few people who gave him kind of a welcomed feeling after he came back to the Digital World, next to Daisuke that is. Besides, she did end up marrying him, for some odd reason.

I can also understand why they wouldn't want to kill either. They were in an emotionally tough spot when faced with possibly killing Digimon. Yes, the original cast were able to do it, but Miyako and Iori were different in that regard. Though, I can also understand why it could be seen as annoying for some people. At the very least, they could fight back to protect the people.

As for your comparsion with Aang's behavior, I'm not sure if that really works. Aang grew up in an Air Temple, where he was taught to believe that killing is never the answer. He was taught to fight to defend himself and other people, but it went against his moral beliefs to actually kill another person. I personally respect that and I agree with that choice as well. As for Miyako and Iori, I don't think it was about violating their personal beliefs. I think that it was more like they were scared to actually kill another life, which, I would imagine, be scary to think about. To me, both cases feel too different to compare.

My thoughts on the next villains in the series after Ken speaking of bad guys.

Originally Posted by zoombie

Spoiler:

I couldn't help but love Mummymon. There is some inner sweetness in the guy. Deep down he is a good guy for sure. He was just born under the wrong circumstances.

Even though they never did anything to redem themselfs, showed no remouce for anything, I felt sorry or sad when Arukenimon and Mummymon died. And I was furious with BeliaVamdemon for killing them, almost if not equally for him killing good digimon Wizzmon, Pumpmon, and Gotsumon. When those characters die I vengefully wanted Vamdemon to suffer.

Arukenimon and Mummymon ended up being good guys or not? The writers seemed to want us not to hate them at the very end, and feel some what bad for their deaths. If you compare those that died at the hands of Vamdemon, Arukenimon and Mummymon's death resembles Wizzmon, Pumpmon, and Gotsumon's deaths more than PicoDevimon.

I wish the ending would have given a more happy hopfully ending for them. In those 50 years at some point, they should have been reborn as good digimon. If the Evil Legendary Warrior can have a redemption reincarnation, why not them?

Spoiler:

I understand that. I actually thought that they were really funny villains. I thought that their deaths in the dub were pretty sad, especially how Mummymon wanted to avenge Arukenimon. Not to mention how the Digidestineds were too shocked to look at their deaths.