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#1
10-25-2009, 01:49 PM
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90s Marvel Animated Universe continuity
I watched the entire Marvel Animated Universe a few months ago and made a list of continuity errors, some IMO are fairly small and easily explainable while others are much more complicated. Anyways heres the continuity errors I've found and explanations I could come up with. They are divided by series kind of since contradictions occur between two series normally. This is actually the fourth time I'm typing this up but the last three times for one reason or another I lost everything, so yeah that was a long time ago so I may have forgotten some not to mention I won't go into as much detail/organization as previously since I'm kind of jaded after doing this three times already. So sorry if it doesn't make much sense in some points, I didn't want to invest as much time as the previous three times. Theres a few more threads on this subject if you're interested, just search the forum titles for canon/continuity etc.
Some people like to separate the later shows (Avengers/Unlimited/Silver Surfer) out of continuity of the animated universe mostly since they don't like the shows, however I'm choosing to include them, IMO they are better than the IM/FF shows and besides SS they seem to fit nicely in continuity. SS is a bit trickier but kind of works in the end. In fact the main reason SS doesn't work well is because of FF, but FF creates continuity errors with the other Marvel shows and even between its first and second season. It'd almost be easier to take out FF since it'd solve most of the big problems, but we're not doing that since its clear its in continuity. X-Men: X-Men has a few but the later shows are the ones that contradict XM so they are discussed in their own shows. Sasquatch - Conflicting depictions, discussed in Hulk. High Evolutionary - He looks different in Unlimited, since its Unlimiteds error I discuss it there. Scarlet Spider - discussed in Spiderman Scarlet Witch - People mention her but theres no real contradictions between her appearance here, iron man and avengers. Pryde of X-Men - at one point I wanted to consider it canon with the animated universe and while theres plenty of contradictions you could kind of shoehorn it in but the contradictions are still kind of big. But yeah it fits WAY better in the 80s continuity, without shoehorning and no contradictions Spider-Man: Spiderman isn't too bad but it does contradict itself in its own show and messes up the entire MAU with a single line throw away line in the first episode as well as making Captain America be stuck in time or whatever. Scarlet Spider - In the finale you see the Scarlet Spider is from a different unvierse, yet he appeared in X-Men and FF. Well theres two explanations and both work well. He could have traveled through dimensions, no reason why not. And the second one is all the spiderman universes featured mostly the same characters just with slight differences, even TAS was indeed kind of going to the clone saga so there could definitely be a Ben Riley in the TAS universe unrelated to the one in the finale. We just never saw the events carry out. Avengers - In the first episode he saysa line mostly just meant for comic book fans about the avengers yet that ends up causing problems. So we kow the Avengers exist....yet Spiderman TAS later reveals Caps has been trapped all along since WWII. I try to explain this in the Avengers cartoon section. Defenders - He also mentions the Defenders and Hulk. He does it separately so it doesn't mean Hulk is a member. It could just be a team with the same name but unrelated to the comic book one. But even if it was like the comic book one, it could still be somewhat plausible for the team to exist. Captain America - Like mentioned above it'll be discussed in the Avengers section. Hobgoblin - This is a big one, in the first Hobgoblin episode you can clearly see a black bald man putting one the Hobgoblin mask, when his identity is revealed seasons later he is a white man with hair. This really annoys me, I guess you can say it was just a "shadow silhouette" in the first episode or that he was wearing a black man mask under the hobgoblin one for extra security... Iron Man: Only one I can remember is the hulk origin is slightly different, I go into more detail on the Hulk TAS section. Its just a matter of "perspective", if you're wondering what that is scroll all the way to the bottom, I put it there since it was kind of hard to fit it elsewhere in the post. Fantastic Four Like I stated before it creates tons of problems and even contradicts itself. The most affected is Silver Surfer but instead of taking the SS show out of continuity that show actually kind of helps fix a few inconsistencies in FF through some work. Galactus attack/Surfers punishment/second herald/nova/ergo - All explained in the Silver Surfer. avengers / vision / captain america - FF shows the Avengers exist right now and that vision exists both explained in avengers. And caps being there. She-Hulk- People say that she appears in FF before her origin, and this isn't really a big problem. While its true air date wise, theres nothing that says the origin couldn't have happened after before her appearance. Iron Man - During S1 you see Iron Man T-shirt and in the tv, its kind of depicted as a fictional universe but never stated, in S2 you get that they are indeed the same universe so it can be explained that it was a news report and that the t-shirt just means he is popular. Hulk: Only one big one that I can remember from this show. sasquatch - In x-men he is shown as a member of alpha flight and can control himself while Hulk shows his origin and he can't control himself yet which is why he goes to isolation. It'd work/fit perfect except that the Hulk episode can not take place in the past. So the only way for it to work is for Sasquatch to have joined Alpha flight after wolverine left, which I don't remember correctly if its possible or not but I think it could be. iron man origin - His origin and the leaders origin in the iron man cartoon is different from the one in the Hulk, but this is explained through "perspective"[see bottom of the post] Silver Surfer One of the best Marvel shows out there, while it does contradict FF a lot, FF had its own share of contradictions and through some work in trying to fit SS in continuity it actually helps fix FF contradictions between itself. Counting the second season was to have a FF team up, it would have solidified if it was indeed in or out of continuity but now we'll never know. Galactus arrival - While different its not necessarily a continuity error, theres no reason why both events couldn't have happened through "perspective" [see below], in fact it fits rather nicely since The Thing punches the SS and we don't see him for a long time which is when the events portrayed in the SS cartoon happen. Surfers punishment -The punishment is different in both shows contradicting it, however FF does not only contradict the SS shows punishment it also contradicts it in season 2, later in season 1 and yes, it even contradicts itself in the same freaking episode Galactus gives him the punishment...wow. Season 2 even directly references the episode of S1 even though changing the punishment. So lets go back to the beginning. In FF Galactus punishes the SS to remain on earth the world he saved, at the end of the episode SS leaves earth quickly retconing that Galactus punished him to stay on "earths galaxy" meaning he can't go past earths galaxy but is actually able to stay on earth. Alright its a retcon but it kinda works with the explanation they give and since its the same episode you assume its what they always meant. The second episode in that season they use that rule to get Dr. Doom out of the surfers board using the retcon from the past episode. In the SS show, his punishment is that in a rage of what had happened galactus threw the surfers planet somewhere in the galaxy and he has to go find it. This can be explained that he could only search for the planet in the restrictions galactus gave him. Later in season 2 they make references to BOTH punishments. contradicting itself, you can kind of not take some of the surfers dialog too literal and it works out in the end. Another better explanation would be having Galactus change the ends of the punishment off screen, which is not too unrealistic since in both FF and SS he did it all the time. second herald/Terrax/Nova - In SS Nova becomes his second herald after SS leaves. In FF he is later seen with Terrax as his herald and then you see Nova become the herald. Well a way for this to work is that you see Terrax since the SS was his herald as galactus warrior before he even was his herald. A way for this to work is Nova does become his second herald but then something happens and she is brought back to earth and stops being her herald and her mind erased. Thats when Terrax becomes his herald. Now this actually works because the FF episode of Nova's origin has a few odd things. She becomes a human torch by just touching Jonny, they can't really explain why that happened other than something else must have happened before that triggered it. If she had already become Nova then that actually explains that was the thing it triggered. When Galactus comes to earth again and is dying, Nova actually shows compassion for Galactus that makes no sense at all, she is shown that she really cares for him and this is not explained at all in FF, its rather odd. However if she had been Nova before then that'd explain why, as Nova in SS she was very compassionate for Galactus. So she becomes Nova again and while kind of messy to try to join both origins in one continuity it actually works out since it does helps explain a few odd things about her FF origin. Also stuff like that (losing/regaining powers) happened in SS show all the time so its not too implausible. Ergo the living planet - In FF he is portrayed as an antagonist and an equal to galactus can't teleport and has a jet strapped in his back. In SS he is portrayed as a good guy (though he does become an antagonist for one episode) and actually fears galactus. An explanation could be that he once feared galactus until he realized he was his equal, thats when galactus strapped the "jet" on him and got rid of his teleportation powers. That seems to work. It could also work the other way around, that he once thought himself an equal until he realized he was no match for him and decided to just teleport away, though for the second explanation I think there may be some contradictions that don't allow it to work. Avengers United They Stand Avengers has a few inconsistencies mostly all created by Spiderman and FF which in this exception were not really the fault of this show but rather SM and FF. This show works as being a part of continuity with small references of Iron Man helping Force Works members scarlet Witch/hawkeye into the avengers. Also had it lasted a second season we would have seen a team up with the x-men. first team / Captain America - We know from Avengers that the original team was caps/thor/iron man/antman/wasp. We know thanks to spiderman and FF that the team existed for a while...And thanks to spiderman we know Caps was stuck with redskull..They could have easily freed him again after he is stuck again however he is supposed to have founded and been in the avengers before that... Only thing I can think of at the moment is that at least the founder was a different Captain America, theres been different caps in the comics and pretty much the same retcon has been used in Marvel comics to explain why caps was always around when he just woke up from being frozen. Another explanation is he got out of the time warp or whatever he was from before formed the avengers and then got stuck again to be freed by spiderman. Its kind of convoluted but that story arc in spiderman does end with caps/red skull trapped again so its not out of the question it could have happened a few times  Vision - He makes a quick cameo on FF but his origin is in Avengers UTS. Only explanation/thing I can think of is he was designed by Antman and used for a bit he doesn't even have a name and thats it, then Ultron made him better and the killing machine therefore his "origin", it does work since Ultron is basically also Antman's creation. Spiderman Unlimited People count this show as an unrelated spin-off but its clearly based on the world of Spiderman TAS and thus in continuity. Counter-Earth - Many people state how the world is totally different, well if you didn't watch the show he is not on earth, he is on counter-earth Maryjane - Not really a plothole, this show clearly takes place a while after the finale of S TAS, so he's already found MJ. origins venom/carnage - They are from earth and their origin is slightly different but can easily be explained through "Perspective" [see below]. High Evolutionary - In X-Men he is shown as an android looking thing, while here he is human. Like Venom/Carnage he is not counter-earths version he is from the actual earth. But he IS an expert in genetics, his work in X-men and Unlimited is basically the same. Theres no reason why he couldn't use his expertise in genetics to make himself that body, or maybe he wasn't a robot and it was just an armor like iron mans. Other errors: Presidents - In the Marvel Animated Universe we are shown three presidents. First an unnamed woman president and then President Kelly in X-Men and then Bill Clinton in Iron Man/FF. In order to be able to fit all three you have to take into account that one of the presidents term was about to be over hence the change. And one of the presidents had some type of scandal and had to step down. Which one gets which doesn't really matter. Character designs - you just have to realize they changed between shows, its an artistic choice among other things, it doesn't really affect continuity that the X-Men look different in the last season or their appearance in Spiderman etc. timeline - shows don't happen continuously or the date they were aired. between episodes months could have happened, some shows take place before others etc, depending how continuity allows them to fit. Obviously some episodes of one show may take place say before Spiderman TAS while others during etc. "Perspective" - Sometimes theres some slight inconsistencies between the origin of a hero being told in one show or the other. They either show something extra that wasn't there before but could clearly have happened you just didn't know it just wasn't told before. The other is when the event is slightly tweaked; As an example I'll use the FF. In S1 they are shown that they got their powers once they reach earth and get out of the space ship, in the S2 intro you see the FF get their powers while inside the ship in space. But theres no reason why both couldn't have happened. Maybe they started getting their powers while on the ship like shown but then once they landed on earth and put themselves together thats when the powers kicked in again and they finally realized something had happened. So yeah kinda lame but it works. 
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#2
10-25-2009, 03:20 PM
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They also had the Vulture end up contracting Spidey's genetic mutation and turning into the Man-Spider; but in his next appearance they make no mention of this and he's just the same old guy turning into a young guy now prisoner in the Scorpion's apartment. Scorpion turns into a monster in his first appearance and is always complaining about being stuck in his suit, but his next appearance he's in prison. Human, not in costume at all. His motivations keep changing every episode he appears in. Spidey witnesses Silvermane turn into a baby, yet the next time he encounters Silvermane he's surprised to find he's alive. There might be some more inconsistencies I don't remember. Personally, I think it would be easier just to say not all of these series are connected.
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"Wotta revoltin' development 'dis is!"
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#3
10-26-2009, 03:32 AM
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As far as the "Pryde of the X-Men" pilot is concerned, I would like to try to view at as in line with the X-Men and Brotherhood of (Evil) Mutant's guest appearances on Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends rather than the latter 1990s series.
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#4
10-26-2009, 02:40 PM
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Avengers wasn't in continuity. If I remember correctly (I do purposely try and block it from memory), A:UTS took place in the future.
Silver Surfer and Fantastic Four can't be in the same continuity - both versions feature The Surfer's encounter with Earth. Some work better than others - for example, it's quite clear Iron Man and X-Men were supposed to be in Spider-Man's continuity based on thier casting. Semper himself has stated he disliked the FF cast and the show itself, and recast them entirely differently for his show. FF is a more difficult nut to crack - The Avengers clearly exist in this continuity and Cap is involved, whereas he's still frozen in time in Spider-Man. She Hulk and Iron Man also appear to be members, whereas they've never mentioned that they are members in thier own shows. Spider-Man: Unlimited isn't related - there's too much evidence to contridict it from TAS (not counting the vast difference in quality). Any other areas of interest here?
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#5
10-26-2009, 02:59 PM
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I understand this is Semper opinion that he hate FF opinion form that show, But he should kept that cast for the Secret Wars in my opinion,It would have fanservie if he kept them.
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http://www.myspace.com/miller346 http://foxspideyfansite.yolasite.com/Batman: I suppose it's useless to tell you to leave. Superman: I wouldn't miss this for anything. Batman: Your funeral. Superman: Already had one.
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#6
10-26-2009, 07:04 PM
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I view all these shows as generally separated, aside from the occasional team-up (i.e. "The Mutant Agenda"). If they were all in the same universe and the same city, it would be very strange that they so rarely run into each other....
I actually really liked both SMU and SS, but I do not view them in-continuity at all.... In fact, I think that the vast belief that SMU is supposed to somehow be a continuation of Spider-Man TAS is one of the reasons people don't like it - different expectations.
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#7
10-31-2009, 12:00 PM
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And I while not a great show its a fairly average show, its not too bad and definitely MUCH better than FF/Iron Man. Quote:
There are other way bigger contradictions that I mention in my post. Now I think it was likely that SS was not going to be in continuity but its from the same era, easily one of the better Marvel cartoons at the time and actually trying to squeeze it in actually helps fix some of the errors/mess in FF so it works. And who knows maybe they would have tried to make it fit in continuity in its second season and the team up with the FF. Quote:
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SMU was a neat show, it had some great ideas as well as some pretty bad ones. There things it did good were fantastic and I love them, but the things it did bad man they really did them bad. Quote:
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#8
10-31-2009, 12:17 PM
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