Maybe Nick execs were (somewhat) in the right with dealing with Vasquez?

[Fool's Gil]

Now before anyone grabs their flamethrowers, let me say, not everything Nick execs were right, but just dealing with some of Vasquez's eccentric dealings.

I don't know if anyone ever fully read any of his work prior to Invader Zim, (I read one chapter of Squee.) but his work is pretty messed up, insanely gruesome. While it's weird that Nick execs chose someone like him to make a kid's show, I feel Vasquez should've found himself sort of lucky, and kept the creepiness and oddities, but remember Zim was a kid's show. Instead he:

Tried to kill Dib. Even I would've prevented that from happening.
Tried to get images of Gir covered in blood out to the public.

And all in all, the times that he was forced to censor, the series still came out as twisted and funny as possible ("What you don't like waffles?"/"IGGINS!"/The Pigboy flying up/Ending of SuperPepe)

So maybe on some things, Vasquez should've calmed down on. Anyone else agree or disagree?

[Super Leviathan]

Based on what I read online about what Nick axed or tried to axe, I doesn't really seem like they were being harsher or more unreasonable than usual with ZIM!. Yeah, they put the kibosh on Bloody GIR and attempts to kill various characters, but what kid's network wouldn't?

Nick is nervier than they get credit for. Even in their big cash cow Spongebob, there are a lot of moments that you wouldn't think would pass muster.

[Innagadadavida]

This is the first I've heard of anything on the subject, but did he quit or get fired for something silly like that? Bloody Gir? Killing Dib?

Also, where's this coming from that he wanted to kill off Dib? He already had a plot written way down the line that would revealed Dib to be a creation of his father's. At least that's what Dib's VA said in an interview on the DVD.

[PC!]

I remember in an interview hearing that after Nick decided to cancel the series, Vasquez wanted to make one final episode where Zim dies a slow death to provide closure for the series. What made him think kids would want to watch a show where the main character dies in the last episode?

[Fool's Gil]

Originally Posted by Innagadadavida

This is the first I've heard of anything on the subject, but did he quit or get fired for something silly like that? Bloody Gir? Killing Dib?

Dib is my favorite Zim character, I would've been angry if he'd been killed off. And bloody Gir...I would've asked for the blood to be changed to purple, cuz alien blood don't count, amirite?

I believe it was just a multitude of problems with Vasquez and Nick that caused the cancellation of the series, but those two are one of the bigger fights,

Also, where's this coming from that he wanted to kill off Dib? He already had a plot written way down the line that would revealed Dib to be a creation of his father's. At least that's what Dib's VA said in an interview on the DVD.

DVD Commentary on the episode Big Bad Rubber Piggy, they state the original episode was Zim would've killed Dib, and in the next episode, a character similar to Dib would have emerged.

[Mandouga]

From what you're all saying, I'm guessing "creative differences" would be an understatement?

[Mad Mod 49]

I remember in an interview hearing that after Nick decided to cancel the series, Vasquez wanted to make one final episode where Zim dies a slow death to provide closure for the series. What made him think kids would want to watch a show where the main character dies in the last episode?

Well, kids might have been able to handle the main character dying...but an entire episode dedicated to him dying? That's really pushing it.

[Lychii]

Originally Posted by Fool's Gil

So maybe on some things, Vasquez should've calmed down on.

To tone down Invader Zim is to tone down Flapjack; they would both loose a lot of their charm and appeal. Many show creators try to push their boundries, try to include things they shouldn't, and get shot down. Happens all the time. And relax, Dib would have come back the next episode if he was killed. This show (at the time) didn't have the strongest continuity so everything would have gone back to normal by the next episode.

Originally Posted by Mad Mod 49

Well, kids might have been able to handle the main character dying...but an entire episode dedicated to him dying? That's really pushing it.

Not sure if the script is still online but the plot of the episode was that Dib stole Zim's PAK, which is Zim's lifeforce, Zim tries to get it back. The original ending was that Zim got his PAK back and lived but then it was changed to acomedate the show's canclation. It's not as bad as it sounds, as Dib had some of his own scenes.

[Fool's Gil]

Originally Posted by Lychii

And relax, Dib would have come back the next episode if he was killed. This show (at the time) didn't have the strongest continuity so everything would have gone back to normal by the next episode.

Like I said in an earlier post, The commentary of Big Bad Rubber Piggy stated Dib would've been killed off permenantly if Nick hadn't intervened.

[Time Wizard]

Honestly, I love Invader Zim, my favorite animated show in the 2000s. IF Dib was supposed to die, then he should of died. Sure Vasquez's previous works were a little messedup, but they were great comics! Jhonny the homicidal maniac, Squee, and I feel sick are great and gory, Nickelodeon caused Zim to not have its planned third season and planned movie. If Vasquez wanted it, he should of got it.

[baycrum267]

Originally Posted by Time Wizard

Honestly, I love Invader Zim, my favorite animated show in the 2000s. IF Dib was supposed to die, then he should of died. Sure Vasquez's previous works were a little messedup, but they were great comics! Jhonny the homicidal maniac, Squee, and I feel sick are great and gory, Nickelodeon caused Zim to not have its planned third season and planned movie. If Vasquez wanted it, he should of got it.

Actually I think they should have put it on MTV like they did Rim and Stimpy(or so I'm told)or maybe the N or something if it went to that.

[Mist]

You guys are gullible. Jhonen had no intention of killing Dib. When he said that in the commentary, he was JOKING. Why would he kill off a character, just so he could introduce a character JUST LIKE HIM? The episode was just meant to be dark and twisted.

Dib was actually Jhonen's favorite character. Nick execs didn't like the Dib character, referring to him as a "whiny b****." prompting Jhonen to draw some artwork for the staff of the show, titled "God Save the Dib" telling the staff to re-work the character and how to do so.

God Save the Dib 1

God Save the Dib 2

Invader ZIM wasn't cancelled because of Jhonen's dark humor (At least, I don't think it was) I'm pretty sure 9/11 was the reason Zim got cancelled. Door to Door featured an apocalyptic New York. However, after 9/11 occurred, Nick didn't want to air it, and so the staff re-animated said scene to make it not look like New York. (Funny thing is, after they finished completing the new scene, Nick went ahead and aired the New York-style scene anyway!)

Also, the show was very expensive to produce, and wasn't as popular as the other Nicktoons: Spongebob, Oddparents, and to a lesser extent, Jimmy Neutron. (Invader ZIM was more of a cult hit) And so, the show got the axe.

I've heard rumors that Jhonen once said at Comi-Con (Or some other convention) that Dib died when he got trampled at the end of the Christmas special. But he could've been joking that time too.

In response to the Original Poster's question. Yes. I do think Jhonen needed to lighten up a bit. I mean, he WAS working on a kid's network. But if he did, I don't think the show would've been as good, so i'm glad he didn't.

I'm honestly suprised at a lot of things that have gotten away on Nick. Ren & Stimpy had a lot of moments that seemed way too violent for a kids show. I remember the violence of Ren & Stimpy upsetting me as a kid.

I'm also suprised at some of the stuff Spongebob got away with. (That episode where Spongebob took Mermaidman's belt and then chopped a screaming Squidward in half with a giant pair of scissors? How on earth did that get past censors!?)

Nick definitely needs to be a little bit more watchful of what they allow. They are a kids network after all. (Though not TOO watchful..)

[baycrum267]

Originally Posted by CjFilmz

You guys are gullible. Jhonen had no intention of killing Dib. When he said that in the commentary, he was JOKING. Why would he kill off a character, just so he could introduce a character JUST LIKE HIM? The episode was just meant to be dark and twisted.

Dib was actually Jhonen's favorite character. Nick execs didn't like the Dib character, referring to him as a "whiny b****." prompting Jhonen to draw some artwork for the staff of the show, titled "God Save the Dib" telling the staff to re-work the character and how to do so.

God Save the Dib 1

God Save the Dib 2

Invader ZIM wasn't cancelled because of Jhonen's dark humor (At least, I don't think it was) I'm pretty sure 9/11 was the reason Zim got cancelled. Door to Door featured an apocalyptic New York. However, after 9/11 occurred, Nick didn't want to air it, and so the staff re-animated said scene to make it not look like New York. (Funny thing is, after they finished completing the new scene, Nick went ahead and aired the New York-style scene anyway!)

Also, the show was very expensive to produce, and wasn't as popular as the other Nicktoons: Spongebob, Oddparents, and to a lesser extent, Jimmy Neutron. (Invader ZIM was more of a cult hit) And so, the show got the axe.

I've heard rumors that Jhonen once said at Comi-Con (Or some other convention) that Dib died when he got trampled at the end of the Christmas special. But he could've been joking that time too.

In response to the Original Poster's question. Yes. I do think Jhonen needed to lighten up a bit. I mean, he WAS working on a kid's network. But if he did, I don't think the show would've been as good, so i'm glad he didn't.

I'm honestly suprised at a lot of things that have gotten away on Nick. Ren & Stimpy had a lot of moments that seemed way too violent for a kids show. I remember the violence of Ren & Stimpy upsetting me as a kid.

I'm also suprised at some of the stuff Spongebob got away with. (That episode where Spongebob took Mermaidman's belt and then chopped a screaming Squidward in half with a giant pair of scissors? How on earth did that get past censors!?)

Nick definitely needs to be a little bit more watchful of what they allow. They are a kids network after all. (Though not TOO watchful..)

Oh I see!Thanks for clearing that up.

[Michael JJ]

I really loved this show and I was sad that it was cancelled. I also preferred it uncensored, though if it was going to end up like Johnny I would be happy to see Vasquez under some restraint. Really, I don't think this should have been on Nickelodeon. It needed to be on a network where an older audience would have watched and they could have done more. For a kids network, I think Nick was thinking appropriately.

[CaptainHero]

A lot of people wonder why this series was ever on Nick in the first place. I believe a Nick exec approached Jhonen because they wanted a series that catered to teens and above.
What I do think is that Nick never expected the series to be so insanely bizarre and disturbing.

It's both of their faults, Jhonen should have realized he was making a series for a kids network, while the end product was vastly entertaining, I think it would have been better suited to a slightly more mature network.

[SpongeJosh]

Originally Posted by CaptainHero

A lot of people wonder why this series was ever on Nick in the first place. I believe a Nick exec approached Jhonen because they wanted a series that catered to teens and above. What I do think is that Nick never expected the series to be so insanely bizarre and disturbing.

It's both of their faults, Jhonen should have realized he was making a series for a kids network, while the end product was vastly entertaining, I think it would have been better suited to a slightly more mature network.

Yeah I think Nick wanted this show for the 11-15 demographic, but it did better with older audiences. What I don't understand is that it shouldn't have mattered where the ratings came from as long as it did well. It might've fared better on another network but it may have not become the cult hit that it did.

[CaptainHero]

Originally Posted by SpongeJosh

Yeah I think Nick wanted this show for the 11-15 demographic, but it did better with older audiences. What I don't understand is that it shouldn't have mattered where the ratings came from as long as it did well. It might've fared better on another network but it may have not become the cult hit that it did.

Well, I'm sure it matters when it comes to advertising what age demographic a series appeals to. It's one thing if the show appeals to children AND teens/adults but when it appeals to a demographic that your network's programming isn't aimed at, that's when it becomes an issue.

It'd be like Adult Swim airing a series that caters to Nick Jr. audiences only.

[SpongeJosh]

Originally Posted by CaptainHero

It'd be like Adult Swim airing a series that caters to Nick Jr. audiences only.

Ahh, I see. No one ever put it like that before.