Flintstones Canon

[Anthonynotes]

From the "Scooby Doo" post, Mister Intensity states:
>>Scooby continuity is easy (although let's not mention Scooby Goes to Hollywood), now if only someone could explain Flintstones continuity (which was a mess even before Flinstone Kids). Now that would be a chore.
<<

So, out of too much time on my hands, I've decided to take up that challenge/task... (yeah, I know, "it's only a cartoon, d00d"---so stow it! ;-) )

From my p.o.v., I've got the various Flintstones' series arranged in the following order, from start to finish:

Assumptions:

The Flintstone Kids (and the "Just Say No" special) is non-canonical, save for aspects of the characters' backgrounds (their parents/families' names, Fred knowing at least Philo Quartz as a child---I'll explain later---etc...). The live-action movies are also non-canonical.

"Laff-a-Lympics" and other such appearances are also non-canonical (more under the "Roger Rabbit" toons-as-actors scenario)

I'll ignore/retcon the original series' run and assume the gravel pit either a) went through several different owners and/or b) was a family-owned buisness----explaining away why Fred's bosses seemed to change in appearance/last names (or why there were other Mr. Slates besides the one we're most familiar with).

Much like "Star Trek" is fiction and takes place in the future (and thus can jump over years at a time for spinoffs--TOS to TNG, and "Enterprise"), thus the Flintstones (taking place in the past *and* being fiction) can have the kids shown anywhere from infancy to adulthood.

So, let's see...

- Aspects of "The Flintstone Kids", as described above. None of the adventures shown on here in my book happened (since per the original series, Fred and Barney didn't know Betty and Wilma as kids), but Fred likely did at least know/meet Philo Quartz (as Fred calls him an "old friend" in "A Flintstones Christmas Carol").

- Fred and Barney meet Betty and Wilma as late teens/early 20's while working at a resort (original series ep flashback)

- Fred and Wilma/Barney and Betty get married (as mentioned in the original series' run). The flashback to the Flintstones' wedding as shown in "I Yabba Dabba Do" gets ignored.

- "The Flintstones" (orignial 60's run, the pre-Pebbles portion)

- "Flintstones on the Rocks" (Cartoon Network special)

Given the lack of Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm, and the "retro" look to it, I'd stick it in here (though I admit to not having seen it), probably taking place sometime during the first season, from the pics of it I've seen.

- "The Flintstones" (rest of the original 60's run)

- "A Man Called Flintstone" (the 1966 movie)

- "The New Fred and Barney Show"
- "Fred and Barney Meet the Thing/Shmoo" (told was mostly reruns of "The New Fred and Barney Show")

Both shows with a preschool-aged Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm.

- "The Flintstones' New Neighbors" (1980 special)
- "Fred's Final Fling" (1980 special)
- "Wind-up Wilma" (1981 special)
- "Jogging Fever" (1981 special)

Placed here, assuming P&BB are preschoolers in these from what I recall (since I haven't seen them, except for "Wind-up Wilma" about a gazillion years ago).

- "A Flintstone Christmas Carol" (1990's special)

Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm seem to be preschool-aged here. Fred also meets his "old buddy", an adult Philo Quartz, here.

- "Cave Kids" (mid-90's series?)

Told was some extremely short-lived mid-90's series with a preschool/very young Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm; I've never seen it (guessing it was direct-to-video). Anyway, I'll fit it in here.

- "A Flintstone Christmas" (the 1977 one-hour Christmas special)

Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm are grade-school aged here. While this one conflicts with the original series' Christmas special (Santa here seems distinctly a modern, and not a "Stone Age" one), I'll dismiss the discrepancy via the ever-popular "Christmas magic!" ;-)

- "The Flintstones' Little Big League" (1978 special)

Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm are pre-teens here.

- "The Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm Show"
- "The Flintstones Comedy Hour"
- "The Flintstones Comedy Show"

All with the teenage versions of Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm.

- "The Flintstones Meet Rockula and Frankenstone" (1980 special)

No mention of P&BB here (as far as I know), so I guess I'll assume they're teenagers (and busy with their own lives/activities) or are grown, and have already left the house, and place it here. Though I haven't seen this one, I'd assume the canonical version of Frankenstone is the one from the various previous "Frankenstones" cartoons.

- "The Jetsons Meet the Flintstones" (1987 TV-movie)

While there's no sign of Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm around, it could just as well mean the Jetsons time-travelled back to a point *after* the kids had left home (probably for college). Also explains how they could recycle/trace over old footage of Pebs and Bamm-Bamm dancing for those Judy-dancing-with-that-rock star scenes during the "Bedrock Rock" song number ;-)

- "I Yabba Dabba Do"
- "Hollyrock-a-bye Baby"
- "A Flintstone Family Christmas"

Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm are adults here (with their children born in "Baby", and their kids seen again once more in "Family Christmas").

*Whew*! As they said on "Mystery Science Theater", what do you think, sirs?

-B.

[Jack]

Wow, I'm impressed. I'm not much for taking cartoon continuity seriously, but it's interesting to read people's attempts at it.

You should try to do a Looney Tunes/Merrie Melodies canon You'd have a lot of work cut out for you, like explaining why characters sometimes know eachother and sometimes don't, as well as Daffy's seven wives and abrupt mid 50's personality change.


Jack

[Dub]

That is impressive. I never realized how much of a complete mess Flintstones continuity is. XD

I always wondered about the Philo Quartz thing tho.

[Anthonynotes]

Wow, I'm impressed. I'm not much for taking cartoon continuity seriously, but it's interesting to read people's attempts at it.

You should try to do a Looney Tunes/Merrie Melodies canon You'd have a lot of work cut out for you, like explaining why characters sometimes know eachother and sometimes don't, as well as Daffy's seven wives and abrupt mid 50's personality change.


Jack

Well, there's nothing wrong with continuity (or *completely* being able to avoid it in any serialized storytelling)---just depends on the nature of the show, I suppose. Being more-or-less sitcoms, there'd be expected to be *some* (sitcom-style, of course) consistency with the Simpsons/Flintstones (though at least we won't see, say, Maggie aged from infancy to being a 16-year-old anytime soon!). Continuity's pretty much a non-issue for stuff in the style of LT/MM in my mind---besides the characters' personalities staying consistent, I suppose (yeah, there's Daffy, I know...).

As for why Daffy had all those wives, well... I somehow a marriage involving *Daffy* would last too long. But hey---all he needs is a couple of more wives and he'll be one-up on Elizabeth Taylor!

Re: the Flintstones: the main chore was finding a list online of the 457 gazillion spinoffs/specials they had; from there, was mostly just a matter of sorting the shows' orders by the ages of Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm. Still, most of DC Comics' output of late probably makes the Flintstones look extremely cohesive (*cough*Hawkman*cough*).

As for Philo Quartz, he was one of the "Flintstone Kids" characters, presumably added to give "Freddy" & co. someone to pal around with (though they also had them palling around with a kiddified Mr. Slate---?!?). Anyway, Philo was your basic "kid brainiac" one sees in cartoons often (like Archie Comics' Dilton Doiley). Guess whoever wrote the "Flintstone Christmas Carol" special was feeling a bit nostalgic for the "Flintstone Kids" (or wanted to add a bit of racial diversity to the special)...


-B.

[mbaker]

You did A very good job explaining the whole "Flintstones" continuity. I Guess Bill, (Hanna) and Joe (Barbera) didn't do A good job of keeping track of the show, or it's spinoffs. They just went back, and forth on A number of things. Especially with Pebbles & Bamm-Bamm. You forgot to mention some info on Captian Caveman, who existed in Bedrock at some point in time, and then was descovered by The Teen Angles in the present. I also noticed Filo Quarts (from "The Flintstone Kids") as an adult in "The Flintstones Christmas Carol". He now resembles his dad, who was also A cop (sans glasses) I'd also like to point out that Gazoo, and Hoppy were never seen in any of the spinoffs. Some people write Gazoo off as the "Scrappy-Doo" of the Flintstones, but by comparison, he's alot more charismatic that Scrappy in my opinion.

[Mister Intensity]

Wow, I'm impressed! When I made my comment, I didn't expect anyone to actually take my challenge. I do have some comments about the timeline.

One of the problems with Flinstones continuity is chronicler's errors. Each succeeding spin-off isn't consistent with the shows preceeding it. You run into problems like Pebbles being ignorant about baseball in an episode of Pebbles and Bam Bam and being a pitching ace in Little Big League that was made a few years later but took place before. Repetitive plots that don't refer to each other like the Christmas episode and the first Christmas special, Little Big League and Wind-Up Wilma. And perhaps the most, unforgivable, because there wasn't a big production gap between appearances, the two (three) different Frank Frankenstone personalities that are supposed to be the same person, the mild-mannered one voiced by John Stephenson and the ill-tempered one voiced by Charles Nelson Reily and how does the Grusomes fit into this. And let's not forget Barney's multiple jobs (Barney Rubble, supertemp). While recent interpretations put Barney in the rock quarry with Fred, I could only recall one or two instances in the original series where he worked with Fred and by the end of the episode he was out of a job.

The Rock Quarry explaination makes sense and let's not forget about Mr. Slate's partner, Mr. Quartz (I was reminded of him in an episode I seen this past Sunday).

Anything in the original series trumps everything else. I get the sense that the official Warner Brothers' Flinstones cannon is limited to the original series only, with a creative preference for the pre-Pebbles episodes as evident by Flinstones On the Rocks.

I agree with the first part of the timeline for the most part. Most of the cannonical aspects of The Flinstone Kids was already established in the original series even if it wasn't emphasised. My only addition to this part is the placement of the Jetsons Meet Flinstones should be pre-Pebbles rather than post. Maybe it is personal preference but I can't really think of a reason for the creators to either pair up Judy with a teenaged Pebbles and Bam Bam or Elroy with the younger versions. There's really no evidence that would place that movie either pre- or post- Pebbles.

The placement of The New Fred and Barney Show (which did include Hoppy) after the original run and then the early-80's specials that established the Frankenstones as the next door neighbors. In fact, the rest of the timeline makes perfect sense. It really is the little things that make things more complicated (the stuff mentioned in the second paragraph and Pebbles and Bam Bam's pets).

I get a sense that the Cartoon Network creators feel that Pebbles and Bam Bam made The Flinstones a mess and would rather avoid them than dealing with them. In many ways they are the benchmarks of continuity in this group of shows but at the same time they also made things a mess.

I don't think we'll see Pebbles and Bam Bam again in any revivals in the near future (assuming there are any).

Mister Intensity

[Anthonynotes]

>>Wow, I'm impressed! When I made my comment, I didn't expect anyone to actually take my challenge. I do have some comments about the timeline.

Yeah, well, I was bored :-) Comments away...

>>
One of the problems with Flinstones continuity is chronicler's errors. Each succeeding spin-off isn't consistent with the shows preceeding it. You run into problems like Pebbles being ignorant about baseball in an episode of Pebbles and Bam Bam and being a pitching ace in Little Big League that was made a few years later but took place before.

Yeah, I thought of that... maybe Pebbles rapidly lost interest in baseball once puberty hit (boys and all) to the point of forgetting the rules? (Or just ignore the "Pebbles don't know baseball" episode...).

>>Repetitive plots that don't refer to each other like the Christmas episode and the first Christmas special, Little Big League and Wind-Up Wilma.

Well, as comics and the Simpsons proves, characters can have as many Christmas specials as they want with no ill effects. It's "Christmas Magic"! ;-p

>>And perhaps the most, unforgivable, because there wasn't a big production gap between appearances, the two (three) different Frank Frankenstone personalities that are supposed to be the same person, the mild-mannered one voiced by John Stephenson and the ill-tempered one voiced by Charles Nelson Reily and how does the Grusomes fit into this.

Simple: the Gruesomes moved out, and the Frankenstones moved into the Gruesomes' old place (and remodelled it). No doubt there's some prehistoric monsters' "Century 21" they all went to... ;-)

>> And let's not forget Barney's multiple jobs (Barney Rubble, supertemp). While recent interpretations put Barney in the rock quarry with Fred, I could only recall one or two instances in the original series where he worked with Fred and by the end of the episode he was out of a job.

Ah, the big Flintstones mystery: where did Barney work? Whatever he was doing, he never seemed as badly off as Fred often came off as (remember one episode where he invites Fred to stay at a *cottage* he had!). I'm sure we'll get an answer for this after we get an answer in the no-doubt-upcoming Secrets of the Legends of the Tale of the Myth of the Story of the Shadow of the Bat that'll explain how Batman can jump from rooftop to rooftop without breaking his knees, outrun machine gun fire, and why Dick Grayson grew up, yet Bruce Wayne stayed the same age...

>>Anything in the original series trumps everything else. I get the sense that the official Warner Brothers' Flinstones cannon is limited to the original series only, with a creative preference for the pre-Pebbles episodes as evident by Flinstones On the Rocks.

That was my assumption as well (original series takes priority--hence the apocryphal status of "The Flintstone Kids")...

>>I agree with the first part of the timeline for the most part. Most of the cannonical aspects of The Flinstone Kids was already established in the original series even if it wasn't emphasised. My only addition to this part is the placement of the Jetsons Meet Flinstones should be pre-Pebbles rather than post. Maybe it is personal preference but I can't really think of a reason for the creators to either pair up Judy with a teenaged Pebbles and Bam Bam or Elroy with the younger versions. There's really no evidence that would place that movie either pre- or post- Pebbles.

True...was a pretty arbitrary placement...but I guess the more modern/80's elements made me feel like sticking it post-Pebbles (that, and I was getting tired by that point :-)).

>>The placement of The New Fred and Barney Show (which did include Hoppy) after the original run and then the early-80's specials that established the Frankenstones as the next door neighbors. In fact, the rest of the timeline makes perfect sense. It really is the little things that make things more complicated (the stuff mentioned in the second paragraph and Pebbles and Bam Bam's pets).


The pets didn't really factor in...outside of the original series, we haven't seen Hoppy much. And can't see why they wouldn't have more pets by the time they were teenagers (that baby mammoth/triceratops they ran around with)...

>>I get a sense that the Cartoon Network creators feel that Pebbles and Bam Bam made The Flinstones a mess and would rather avoid them than dealing with them. In many ways they are the benchmarks of continuity in this group of shows but at the same time they also made things a mess.

I don't think we'll see Pebbles and Bam Bam again in any revivals in the near future (assuming there are any).
<<

I wouldn't say that...I think they just wanted to go with a more "retro" or "old school" approach of late, that's all. I'm sure we'll see the kids again at some point.

Interesting that the Flintstones has managed to cover everything from Fred and Barney as children to Fred and Barney as *grandparents*... kind of epic stuff for a show based on "rock" puns! ;-)

-B.

[Mek]

Yowzers!

And here I though Marvel Comics continuity was a nightmare! *laughs*

[Nin-Nin69]

It all makes sence now. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

[BlackoutCreature]

Heres my take on where Barney works if it helps u out. From what i remember of the original series (its been a little while since ive seen it), i got the feeling that Barney worked at some kind of factory or assembly plant. I dont think he was a floor worker though, he seemed more like blue-collar management. Probably a dispatcher or floor supervisor. From what i remember about later Flinstones shows and specials, most of them placed Barney working with Fred at the rock quarry. My guess is that shortly after the original series ended, Barney's factory went out of business, and Fred got him a job at the quarry.

Also, about Mr. Slate, i noticed that between series (and actually internally with the original series) that his first name kept switching between Sylvester and Nate. Is this what u mean by different family members?

[mbaker]

I noticed that they tinkered with Mr. Slate until they settled with calling him Nate Slate. (Having him bald, and with glasses.) I always found that wierd, but then again, Ranger Smith has been tinkered with as well. (As John K. pointed out in his two "Yogi Bear" shorts.) I remember an episode from the early seasons where Fred had A lookalike who was A rich businessman ("Old Battle Axe") who wanted to go out, to see what things were like outside of work. It had one guy named Mr. Boulder (Voiced by Mel Blanc) who was Fred's Boss at the rock quarry. (Probably A substitute for Mr. Slate.) Another thing I noticed is that sometimes Barney would have A car one minute, (which was made from A log, and has been tinkered with from time to time.) and the next minute he's riding with Fred in his car. I guess Barney was never very good at taking care of his car like Fred dose, so He either has it in the shop, or he has A "loaner" when he's not riding with Fred to work, or something.

[Geezil]

[...] You forgot to mention some info on Captain Caveman, who existed in Bedrock at some point in time, and then was discovered by The Teen Angels in the present. [...] Some people write Gazoo off as the "Scrappy-Doo" of the Flintstones, but by comparison, he's a lot more charismatic than Scrappy in my opinion.

Just one Geezil's POV: I'd have been inclined to leave Captain Caveman with his place in the "Teen Angels canon," and retcon him completely out of Flintstones continuity. (He still could have existed as a previously unknown mutation in "Dino Boy's" Lost Valley ages earlier, for one alternate possibility.)

(And I'm now starting to understand how this sort of project can cause a whopping big headache if one stays at it long enough.)

As for Gazoo, in my book he'd also have been retconned into some other dusty corner of the Hanna-Barbera Universe, but of course that move would wipe out the entire season 6 of the original Flintstones series! So as much as Gazoo irritated me, and still does (Fred and Barney were never that wimpy and defenseless before fall 1965!), he'd stay safe.

(Please pass the aspirin...)

[Anthonynotes]

>>
Just one Geezil's POV: I'd have been inclined to leave Captain Caveman with his place in the "Teen Angels canon," and retcon him completely out of Flintstones continuity. (He still could have existed as a previously unknown mutation in "Dino Boy's" Lost Valley ages earlier, for one alternate possibility.)
<<

Nothing about the Teen Angels precluded his being in the Flintstones as well (just does the "Capt. America" bit of being frozen for a million years and thawed out in the present)... well, except for that one episode where Cavey time-travels the Angels back to his prehistoric town, and it looks a lot more primitive than Bedrock did (maybe it's the run-down, "trailer park" section of Bedrock? ;-) ).

>>
As for Gazoo, in my book he'd also have been retconned into some other dusty corner of the Hanna-Barbera Universe, but of course that move would wipe out the entire season 6 of the original Flintstones series! So as much as Gazoo irritated me, and still does (Fred and Barney were never that wimpy and defenseless before fall 1965!), he'd stay safe.


Well, Gazoo still stays in my book... no need to do DC Comics-style wholesale revisionism/character assassination any more than necessary ;-)

-B.

[Jack]

Also, about Mr. Slate, i noticed that between series (and actually internally with the original series) that his first name kept switching between Sylvester and Nate. Is this what u mean by different family members?

If I had explain his name change, I'd say that his proper birth name was Sylvester, but he preferred Nate (perhaps a nickname he aquired as a child). Nate being a nickname for Sylvester might be a real jump for most people, but keep in mind that Friz Freleng's real name was actually Isadore Freleng.

The continuity problems in the original series, especially in the earlier seasons, comes from the fact that most pre-mid 60's TV shows were tinkered with much like theatrical cartoons had been. The series went from having a theatrical cartoon-like continuity to having a sitcom-ish one.

I seem to recall that Fred had a friend in the original series who was usually only referred to (the name escapes me ), but he appeared in maybe two episodes. In one he was tall and thin, and in the other he was short.

Well, there's nothing wrong with continuity (or *completely* being able to avoid it in any serialized storytelling)---just depends on the nature of the show, I suppose. Being more-or-less sitcoms, there'd be expected to be *some* (sitcom-style, of course) consistency with the Simpsons/Flintstones (though at least we won't see, say, Maggie aged from infancy to being a 16-year-old anytime soon!). Continuity's pretty much a non-issue for stuff in the style of LT/MM in my mind---besides the characters' personalities staying consistent, I suppose (yeah, there's Daffy, I know...).

I'm totally against having an official Looney Tunes canon, but I thought it'd be interesting to see someone try it for fun . The personalities of the characters generally stayed the same, though Tweety changed quite abit over the years. I've heard a few people explain Daffy's personality shift as being the result of a stroke of some kind, but all in all I would generally ignore the later Daffy, since the ealier one dominates the character's pre 1960s filmography at about a 3:1 ratio.


Jack

[Anthonynotes]

>>If I had explain his name change, I'd say that his proper birth name was Sylvester, but he preferred Nate (perhaps a nickname he aquired as a child). Nate being a nickname for Sylvester might be a real jump for most people, but keep in mind that Friz Freleng's real name was actually Isadore Freleng.

Perhaps so...

>>
I seem to recall that Fred had a friend in the original series who was usually only referred to (the name escapes me ), but he appeared in maybe two episodes. In one he was tall and thin, and in the other he was short.

You're thinking of Joe Rockhead, the all-purpose "generic cohort" of Fred's besides Barney who's also varied in appearance greatly. Though the "favored" version of him from what I could tell is the tall, brownish-haired one...

>>
I'm totally against having an official Looney Tunes canon, but I thought it'd be interesting to see someone try it for fun . The personalities of the characters generally stayed the same, though Tweety changed quite abit over the years. I've heard a few people explain Daffy's personality shift as being the result of a stroke of some kind, but all in all I would generally ignore the later Daffy, since the ealier one dominates the character's pre 1960s filmography at about a 3:1 ratio.

Heh...don't think *anyone* would have a preference for the 60's Daffy (in those Daffy-Speedy cartoons)!

Speaking of canon/continuity, I had mulled over writing a fanfic story called "Pinky and the Brain: Year One" (covering "Snowball" and "Project B.R.A.I.N" contradicting each other). Perhaps throw in a pointless cameo by the Bat guy (BATMAN: It's a "Year One" story. *All* Year One stories have to involve *me* in some way. DC and Warner Bros.' marketing departments demand it.) ;-p

-B.

[Geezil]

Well, Gazoo still stays in my book... no need to do DC Comics-style wholesale revisionism/character assassination any more than necessary ;-)
-B.

Hey, I completely agree on not overdoing the rewritten history, as contradictory as that may seem (sometimes, like last night, words fail me in the evening)!

It's just that Fred and Barney made for far more enjoyable TV as first written, when they still had some blue-collar grit and were not above the occasional roundhouse scrap to defend Wilma and Betty. (Quoting Fred from one very early such episode, "Barney ... the charm stuff is out!")

OK, I know that trait was steadily watered down as the Flintstones became an ever hotter merchandising property, but it was only the arrival of Gazoo that finally turned Fred & Barney into the two-legged geldings of Earth Hanna-Barbera. (Did they do anything of note in original season 6 without first calling out, "Gazooooooo! We need you!"? Not IIRC. And how sad a comedown.)

But again, I agree that if we started out with such a loose canon, we'd likely end up with a red sky over Bedrock and... [Everybody: "Oh, shut up, Geezil!"]