Scooby-Doo continuity

[Knightmare]

I've got two Scooby-Doo questions that have been bothering me for awhile and I was wondering if you guys cna help me with them.

1)Were do the 80's DTV Scooby-Doo movies and the 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo fit into the Scooby-Doo timeline? I used to think that the movies (Boo Brothers,Ghoul School and Reluctant WereWolf) took place after the Scooby and Scrappy-Doo show because of the change in Shaggy's clothes, the change in the look of the Mystery Machine and Shaggy becoming a racecar driver, and then came the Scooby-Doo Mysteries because of the return of Daphne and then came the later Scooby and Scrappy-Doo show that featured the return of Fred and Velma, but then in the early 90s I saw the 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo and seems to come after the Scooby-Doo Mysteries because of Daphne being there plus getting an updated look and it seems to follow the 80's DTV movies with the Shaggy and the Mystery Machine look and if that is the case then why is there now mention of Flim Flam in the later Scooby and Scrappy-Doo show that feature Fred and Velma and why did both Daphne and Shaggy return to their classic looks. And if it doesn't then why is there mention of Fred or Velma in 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo. Also in Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island Daphne mentions wanting to see proof of real ghosts and monsters instead of just people in monster suits, but during the 80's Scooby-Doo stuff both she,Shaggy and Scooby all had contact with real monsters, why did she forget about that?

2) Why didn't Casey Kasem voice Shaggy during the 90s DTV Scoob-Doo movies? I know the simple answer is money but they were able to get Frank Welker back as Fred so why not bring back Casey? Frank as Fred VA is a big part of the Scooby-Doo franchise but bigger than Casey being Shaggy, I mean most of every Scooby-Doo episode or movie is mostly Shaggy and Scooby, off on their on running from the monster and doing the classic comedic stuff. After being Shaggy's VA through all of the classic Scobby-Doo cartoons,the Scrappy-Doo era, and even A Pup Named Scooby-Doo not hearing the familar Shggay voice was a big let down for me and alot of other fans during the 90's DTV Scooby-Doo movies.

[BlackoutCreature]

1. Your trying to make a coherent timeline from Scooby-Doo? Brave, brave man, far braver then me. If your insistent on it, i can tell u that most people dont consider anything with Scrappy or real ghosts in it in continuity. Scrappy is basically a personal preference, and shows with real ghosts and monsters (like "13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo" and the 80's DTV's) kinda violate the spirit of the original series. The exception would probably be the 90's DTV, where the ghosts and monsters were considered the exceptions and not the rules. Also, "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo" is probably also questionable as to continuity, again due to peoples personal preference. If that helps u out i dont know.

2. My guess is that its because Frank Welker is a full time voice artist, thus available to do the movies, while Casey Kasem isnt, thus he was doing something else (what that would be i have no idea) and wasnt available.

[Anthonynotes]

>>1. Your trying to make a coherent timeline from Scooby-Doo? Brave, brave man, far braver then me. If your insistent on it, i can tell u that most people dont consider anything with Scrappy or real ghosts in it in continuity. Scrappy is basically a personal preference, and shows with real ghosts and monsters (like "13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo" and the 80's DTV's) kinda violate the spirit of the original series. The exception would probably be the 90's DTV, where the ghosts and monsters were considered the exceptions and not the rules. Also, "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo" is probably also questionable as to continuity, again due to peoples personal preference. If that helps u out i dont know.


My take would be that those three movies (Boo Bros, Reluctant Werewolf, Ghoul School) and those 6-minute "Scoob and Shag running from real monsters for six minutes w/Scrappy in tow" (which are probably the absolute nadir of the whole Scooby franchise) seem to be considered as apocryphal---meaning that they don't necessarily fit into "Scooby canon" (as it were)...though I guess like the above poster said, it depends on how strict one draws the line at there being "real" monsters in Scooby's universe. Dunno where "13 Ghosts" fits into all this...

Outside of the more cartoonish (even for "Scooby"'s standards) elements, there isn't really anything about "A Pup Named Scooby Doo" that would exclude it in my mind from being considered canonical (unlike, say, "The Flintstone Kids" or "Yo Yogi"). That, and one of the 90's DTV used one tidbit of info from this series---the revelation of Shaggy's real name ("Norville")!



>>2. My guess is that its because Frank Welker is a full time voice artist, thus available to do the movies, while Casey Kasem isnt, thus he was doing something else (what that would be i have no idea) and wasnt available.[/QUOTE]

Casey Kasem is more well-known as a decades-long radio DJ, whom you can still hear on weekends on various stations (hosting those "America's top 20 countdown" type of programs).

-B.

[Tobias]

If you have to try and make sense, then the order goes:

A Pup Named Scooby Doo
Scooby Doo, Where Are You?
The New Scooby Movies
The Scooby Doo Show
The Blue Falcon Show
Scooby Doo/Scrappy Doo (With Fred and Velma)
New Scooby and Scrappy (With Daphne)
DTV (Boo Brothers, Reluctant Werewolf)
DTVs (Zombie Island, Witch's Ghost)
Scooby Doo Mysteries
13 Ghosts
Scooby Doo/Scrappy Doo (W/O Fred, Velma and Daphne)
What's New Scooby Doo

A way to explain away 13 Ghosts is to say either

A) It was nothing more than a nightmare that Scooby had
B) After the 13 Ghosts were caught, Van Ghoul took Flim Flam in while Scooby and the others went back to their non real ghost hunting lives.

After the beginning of Zombie Island, where the gang breaks up, that's where New Scooby/Scrappy - 13 Ghosts (I'm going with the whole bad dream opinion) occurs. After that, Daphne goes off to become a journalist, which is where the Scooby Doo/Scrappy Doo show and the 80's DTV's happen without the rest of the gang happens. Scrappy can be assumed to go back to live with his mom (or if you go by the live action film, dropped in the middle of the desert), which is where Zombie Island picks up with Daphne on the reality show, hiring Fred after his book career goes down in flames and Velma is fired from NASA for "meddling too much" and opens her own book store.

Now, if you really want to get confusing, figure in "Laff-A-Lympics".

[Anthonynotes]

If you have to try and make sense, then the order goes:

A Pup Named Scooby Doo
Scooby Doo, Where Are You?
The New Scooby Movies
The Scooby Doo Show
The Blue Falcon Show
Scooby Doo/Scrappy Doo (With Fred and Velma)
New Scooby and Scrappy (With Daphne)
DTV (Boo Brothers, Reluctant Werewolf)
DTVs (Zombie Island, Witch's Ghost)
Scooby Doo Mysteries
13 Ghosts
Scooby Doo/Scrappy Doo (W/O Fred, Velma and Daphne)
What's New Scooby Doo

A way to explain away 13 Ghosts is to say either

A) It was nothing more than a nightmare that Scooby had
B) After the 13 Ghosts were caught, Van Ghoul took Flim Flam in while Scooby and the others went back to their non real ghost hunting lives.

After the beginning of Zombie Island, where the gang breaks up, that's where New Scooby/Scrappy - 13 Ghosts (I'm going with the whole bad dream opinion) occurs. After that, Daphne goes off to become a journalist, which is where the Scooby Doo/Scrappy Doo show and the 80's DTV's happen without the rest of the gang happens. Scrappy can be assumed to go back to live with his mom (or if you go by the live action film, dropped in the middle of the desert), which is where Zombie Island picks up with Daphne on the reality show, hiring Fred after his book career goes down in flames and Velma is fired from NASA for "meddling too much" and opens her own book store.

Now, if you really want to get confusing, figure in "Laff-A-Lympics".

Not bad!

Re: fitting in "Laugh-a-Lympics": either A) an alternate reality/apocryphal (not really a "Scooby" show and all), or B) just a TV show Shag and Scoob managed to get into (and become the stars of)... a la the relation of Pinky and Brain in some A! shorts vs. their own spinoff...

-B.

[Rurouni]

2) Why didn't Casey Kasem voice Shaggy during the 90s DTV Scoob-Doo movies? I know the simple answer is money but they were able to get Frank Welker back as Fred so why not bring back Casey? Frank as Fred VA is a big part of the Scooby-Doo franchise but bigger than Casey being Shaggy, I mean most of every Scooby-Doo episode or movie is mostly Shaggy and Scooby, off on their on running from the monster and doing the classic comedic stuff. After being Shaggy's VA through all of the classic Scobby-Doo cartoons,the Scrappy-Doo era, and even A Pup Named Scooby-Doo not hearing the familar Shggay voice was a big let down for me and alot of other fans during the 90's DTV Scooby-Doo movies.

I remember hearing that Kasem had a falling out with WB over an ad campaign for Burger King (he's a vegetarian), which is why he briefly stopped voicing the character around that time.

[Mister Intensity]

Scooby-Doo continuity is almost as confusing as Batman Beyond continuity.

The official answer is that all of the Scrappy seasons, with the possible execption of the first one with Mystery Inc, are not part of the official Scooby canon (similiar to how the 80s Jonny Quest cartoons were jetisoned when Real Adventures came along).

If you want to consider a timeline for the first thirteen seasons and the 80s movies (Boo Brothers, Ghoul School, and Reluctant Werewolf) they more or less occurred in the order in which they aired with the 13 Ghosts taking place before the 1980s movies, ending the original Scooby chronology.

The current DTVs, particularly Zombie Island and the Witch's Ghost, went out of its way to write the Scrappy episodes out of continuity. The chronology of events described in those movies make it impossible for the post-1980 (before Pup) episodes and movies from happenning since none of them encountered a real supernatural being (with the possible exception of the Jeannie episode) and the gang didn't really reunited for a significant period of time since Mystery Inc broke up with only Fred and Daphine really keeping in touch.

The current Scooby-Doo chronology goes like this:

Aspects of A Pup Named Scooby-Doo like the names "Coolsville" and "Norville." I doubt the stories happenned as we saw them but it does contains the building blocks of current Scooby continuity. Likely none of it happenned but it contains enough background material on the Scooby Universe that it needs to be included since it affects the way we see Scooby today.

Scooby-Doo, Where Are You
New Scooby-Doo Movies
What's New Scooby-Doo
Scooby-Doo and the Legend of the Vampire
You could argue that all these series take place simultaneously (does it really make sense that they spent a whole year meeting celebrities during each and every case). I put What's New in here because it seems like in What's New the gang is younger than how they were portrayed in the late-70's.

Scooby-Doo and Dynomutt (the first 24 Scooby-Doo Show episodes and the Dynomutt crossover episodes)
The Scooby-Doo Show (the last 16)
Scooby-Doo and Scrappy Doo (the first season, questionable but it hasn't been contradicted yet)
These episodes featured a more established Mystery Inc and a tired Scooby and Shaggy. Assuming that the first Scrappy season is in continuity, those episodes could be mixed in with the last 16 Scooby-Doo Show episodes. It is obvious the Scooby-Doo Show is in continuity since most of the video monsters in The Cyber Chase came from that show.

Then the DTVs with the exception of Legend of the Vampire which takes place earlier in the Scooby timeline. Maybe one of these days they would tell the story about Mystery Inc's last case before Zombie Island.

As for Casey Kasem, the Burger King story is accurate from what I know. In the 80's episodes, Shaggy was constantly eating pizza and didn't touch a hamburger or a sandwich. Without Casey doing Shaggy's voice, Shaggy was free to eat whatever he wants but now that Casey's back Shaggy is eating zuchinni sandwiches (notice that all Shaggy eats are sandwiches with multi-colored vegetables in What's New).

A recent issue of the Scooby-Doo comic had Velma telling Shaggy that she thought he was a vegetarian and he responds with something along the lines of "says who."

I hope this helps explain things.

Mister Intensity

[Knightmare]

Thanks everybody, you guys have been a big help.

Tobias: I can see how both of you explanations for 13 Ghost could work, I was talking with some friends of mine and one of them suggested that Van Ghoul might have cast a spell over Scooby,Shaggy,Scrappy and Daphne to make them forget about the chest of ghosts while he hid it from the rest of the world.

Mister Intensity: I agree with your timeline except for one thing Scooby-Doo and the Legend of the Vampire couldn't have occured at the same time as Scooby-Doo, Where Are You,New Scooby-Doo Movies and The New Scooby-Doo show because the band from Scooby-Doo and the Witch's Ghost are featured in it and Witch's Ghost takes place after the gang is reunited in Zombie Island.

I think that the major problem with making a timeline for Scooby-Doo is the same as problem with the Godzilla movies, the new creators keep going back to the original story and pick an choose different things from the other incarnations franchise and it's characters for their story and not caring if it controdicts something that has already been stated.

Thanks for telling me about the Casey Kasem thing, is the Burger King commercial in question the one from the mid-90's where a live-action Mystery Machine pulls up to the drive and we hear Shaggy's voice making an order.

Thanks again guys.

[Mister Intensity]

Thanks everybody, you guys have been a big help.

Tobias: I can see how both of you explanations for 13 Ghost could work, I was talking with some friends of mine and one of them suggested that Van Ghoul might have cast a spell over Scooby,Shaggy,Scrappy and Daphne to make them forget about the chest of ghosts while he hid it from the rest of the world.

Mister Intensity: I agree with your timeline except for one thing Scooby-Doo and the Legend of the Vampire couldn't have occured at the same time as Scooby-Doo, Where Are You,New Scooby-Doo Movies and The New Scooby-Doo show because the band from Scooby-Doo and the Witch's Ghost are featured in it and Witch's Ghost takes place after the gang is reunited in Zombie Island.

I think that the major problem with making a timeline for Scooby-Doo is the same as problem with the Godzilla movies, the new creators keep going back to the original story and pick an choose different things from the other incarnations franchise and it's characters for their story and not caring if it controdicts something that has already been stated.

Thanks for telling me about the Casey Kasem thing, is the Burger King commercial in question the one from the mid-90's where a live-action Mystery Machine pulls up to the drive and we hear Shaggy's voice making an order.

Thanks again guys.

That's the Burger King commercial everyone is refering too. Thanks for clarifying the info about Legend of the Vampire. Admittedly I have yet to see it and I was placing it based on artwork featuring the gang in their original outfits.

I was thinking about the same thing regarding the 13 Ghosts and the idea of a possible mindwipe. It makes as much sense as anything else.

Scooby continuity is easy (although let's not mention Scooby Goes to Hollywood), now if only someone could explain Flintstones continuity (which was a mess even before Flinstone Kids). Now that would be a chore.

Mister Intensity

[FuriousFreddy99]

Scooby continuity is easy (although let's not mention Scooby Goes to Hollywood), now if only someone could explain Flintstones continuity (which was a mess even before Flinstone Kids). Now that would be a chore.

Mister Intensity

"Scooby Goes to Hollywood" is a sort of "Roger Rabbit" thing, where the characters are shown to be filming the stories we know them for.

None of those "kid version" TV shows can be considered as part of the choresponding show's continuity (Fred and Barney met Wilma and Betty as young adults; Yogi grew up in the 50s in a more or less *real* bear environment, etc.). A Pup Named Scooby-Doo is actually the closest they got to something that could fit into the series canon.

It's a sort of "pick and choose" thing, like Jonny Quest: only the original series and the "Real Adventures" are considered part of the timeline, which excludes the 1987 comeback and both TV movies.

As for Scooby-Doo, anything made between 1980 and 1988 can't really tie in as canonical: the real monsters (unless Shaggy hallucinated them all), Freddy's incorrect last name ("Bronters"...what the heck), Freddy and Velma's supposed jobs, and the perky little Scrappy-Doo (he original, tougher, and more annoying Scrappy-Doo is the one that fits in better, especially with the live-action movie).

Of course, it's almost futile to try and get some cohesiveness out of a Saturday morning cartoon show that ran as long as Scooby-Doo did, as concepts and characters wwere created, dropped, and changed based on the flunctuation of their Nielson ratings. TV loves not behing cohesive: Whatever happened to Chuck Cunningham or Judy Winslow?

[Eric B]

The continuity of Scooby is simple. There is no reason all of the shows, except for Pup Named Scooby, can't be seen as continuous (And I think the Pup show should be non-canonical, because not only are the personalities reversed-- yeah I know it is supposed to be funny how Fred and Daphne grew up into the perfect man and woman from the total opposite personalities as kids, but it is a stretch looking at it realistically. Unfortunately, Fred has not completely recovered from the "dork" stigma from that show. Anyone see the new WNSD on CN promo where the gan in the new outfits runs across Fred's ascot? Also, is the time of the show 50's/60's, or the 80's/90's? You have elements of both periods. So to me it is just a spoof that is not really real.)

From my page (http://members.aol.com/bdmnqr2/scoobystory.html) I wrote:

[cover beginning of show and all of the copycat shows it inspired]Meanwhile, Scooby himself remained steady foiling ghosts as his fame increased. Soon, famous celebrities would join him in his adventures. The act got so hot that his canine relatives gradually joined him, as monsters got weirder and weirder and his travels spread to all around the world. Scooby then took a few years off from crime solving, only to wind up in such fantastical places as Atlantis and Wonderland, where he finds that the monsters, witches and other mythical characters are no longer phony crooks, but are quite real. He quickly returned to phony ghosts, climbing the corporate ladder of the crime-solving industry to get his own detective agency, and then came the ultimate challenge, as he and his friends teamed up with Vincent Price, king of horror films (in animated form, of course) to capture the 13 most terrifying ghosts of all, which Scooby himself had accidentally released from a chest.

Scooby's illustrious career, running longer than any other cartoon show, would end in the nostalgic kick we are in today, where Scooby finally has his own live action feature. [This also covers the DTV movies and WNSD in which the gang finally permanently got back together.]

The live action movie also supposedly covered the breakup and reuniting of the gang, but that movie is revisionist and inaccurate on several fronts, especially involving Scrappy. In the movie, he has a falling out with the gang and leaves way in the past (it was a flashback, and was nowhere around when the gang broke up. I'm surprised they didn't go and have him actually breaking up the gang as many accuse him of doing). A much more logical use of Scrappy would have been when the gang broke up, and then Shaggy told Scooby "well, I guess it's just us now" and took off in the Mystery Machine. Scrappy could have been waiting inside, and they could have said "Oh No!", or something and then ditch him when they got called to the new case, to make the Scrappy haters happy. That would have been true to actual Scooby history.

It seems the original questioner was confused about the original timeline of the actual airing of the 80's-90's shows.

The original Scooby-Scrappy show with the whole gang was 1979. The final episode was a transition where Fred and the girls only appear at the beginning and end.
The first batch of shorts without the gang and with real monsters(called "scary Scooby Funnies) were '80-81, airing with Richie Rich
in 1982, Scooby began inching back to crime solving by working at Shaggy's Uncle Fearless detective agency. Many villains were real and not unmasked, Some were however. Other episodes featured Shaggy Scooby and Scrappy with teens, and the Scrappy-Yabba spinoff
'83 Daphne came back as a "snoopy reporter" bringing Shaggy and the dogs with her on her cases.
'84, Scooby now has his own official crime solving service: the "Scooby Doo Detective Agency" (there never was any "Mysteries Inc" BTW). As I say on the page, "Scooby slowly worked his way up to the status of an official detective! (The childhood SDDA, was not an official organization, of course.)"
'85 They team up with Vincent Price and Flim Flam for the 13 Ghosts
'87-88 Shaggy, Scooby and Scrappy star in Superstar 10 movies. Sort of like extended "Scary Scooby Funnies.
('88-91 Pup Named Scooby. Spoof of entire series)
'93/4 Scooby's Arabian Knights (DTV) Scooby and Shaggy mini-story wraps around Yogi and Friends plus Magilla stories.
'97 Scooby mania on CN in full swing, Bravo Dooby Doo is produced reuniting the whole gang with Johnny Bravo.
'98-present New DTV movies featuring original gang permanently reunited, plus live action and new series WNSD

So according to 1984's "Happy Birthday Scooby", Fred and Velma had moved on to their own careers, (mystery writer and NASA) as Daphne had (reporter). While Daphne at first rejoined the gang and brought them to her cases, she was apart of the new SDDA, while Fred and/or Velma visited from time to time. There are no signs of any ill feeling between anybody, as was suggested on the first DTV, "Zombie Island", or the live action, or the myths of Scrappy breaking them up. That's why all of this revision that comes up is ridiculous. As Scooby and the gang take off around the world in their own plane tracking down the 13 ghosts, Fred and Velma would be too busy to keep up with them. Shaggy and the dogs take another break from the business and get little jobs taking care of Dracula and other monsters' daughters, and in their spare time run in a race to keep Shaggy from being permanently a werewolf, and try to get shaggy's inheritance, and then Shaggy and Scooby go alone to work for a prince.
Finally, the original gang comes back together for old times sake.
Check out the page for more details.

[Mister Intensity]

Personally, I don't like retroactive continuity and would prefer that everything happenned even the things that I don't like. Just because a creative team doesn't like a story shouldn't make it invalid. That's the main reason why I included the first Scrappy season in my reading of the timeline WB seems to use for Scooby these days, even though I consider that season the worst of the Scrappy seasons (I personally consider the Yabba-Doo season my favorite of the Scrappy years). I'm sure there will be a group of writers, producers, and executives who will decide that the Scrappy years aren't so bad and decide to make them "canonical" again or even decide to bring back Scrappy. Then again, my personal "canon" includes everything but at the end of the 13 Ghost, Vincent Van Ghul cast a time spell that prevented the last few years of Scooby's life from happening to combat the effects of the Demon Chest.

As far as the last names and "Mysteries Inc." go, while neither were mentioned in the series itself until recent years (What's New avoids using the name "Mysteries Inc."), both were mentioned in Scooby-Doo books that came out during the time of the show and were likely in production materials for the show.

I do wish WNSD was rated TV-Y7 instead of TVY so they could up the excitement level a bit.

I said it before and I'll say again, I love the website.

Mister Intensity

[Obi]

Yeah yeah, this is all good and well, but where does "Shaggy Busted" fit in?