1970's: Why did they suck?

[StrangerAtaru]

I know I have been thinking about this for a while, but a certain thread made me think of it again. I have just been wondering why the 1970's were not a good time for animation? I am not talking about Japan, since a lot of classic anime came out then. I am asking about why animation sucked in this country? I mean, the only show that anyone really talks about from that era is Scooby Doo, and that was first started in 1969. (although a good chunk of its content came from the 1970s)

[zimbach]

Short answer: Money

Animation is a very labor intensive, and therefore expensive, proposition. Technology had not advanced enough to reduce costs by that time, so they did it by cutting corners with limited animation techniques, or by shipping production overseas.

Of course there are other things that led to the decline of animation in the 1970s (many of which actually started in the '60s). I'll leave that to others to contribute to.

[Daniel P]

Another reason is PC-freaks.

Remember that crappy Tom & Jerry reincarnation in 1975? Hanna Barbera made 48 shorts for TV in which they were friends. There was no action.

It's a darn good thing CN doesn't mix those in with the rest of the T&J's on "The Tom and Jerry Show".

[mbaker]

Here's another answer. "Cartoons Are For Kids." The old line of thinking was still prevelent at the time. The other answers were good too. Alot of restriction at that time. Thank god things have changed for the better. I'm also glad that Hanna, and Barbera's Tom & Jerry revival from the 70's (As well as Filmation's revival) isn't included with the classic shorts on Cartoon Network.

Itchy: Lemonade?

Scratchy: Please.

Itchy: I made it just for you.

Scratchy: You are my best friend.

[Jack]

Originally posted by dacp3
Another reason is PC-freaks.

Remember that crappy Tom & Jerry reincarnation in 1975? Hanna Barbera made 48 shorts for TV in which they were friends. There was no action.

At the old TTTP, someone once said that originally there was a lot excitement about those TV Tom and Jerrys. Hanna-Barbera was going to get the old MGM crew back together, and they were going to give the cartoons bigger-than-usual budgets. Basically, they were going to make them like the originals.

But what happened to change all of this?

ABC, who bought the series, told them that the cartoons couldn't be violent. Since Tom and Jerry are nothing without violence, everyone stopped caring about the project, and it was handled just like any other cheap Hanna-Barbera 70s production.

Sad, isn't it?


Jack

[Daniel P]

Man, that sucks.

These are the same people who gave us The Tom & Jerry Movie is I know correctly.

[mbaker]

I belive Film Roman produced the Movie. Hanna, and Barbera were only credited for creating them.

[RayChuang]

I think the reasons why the 1970's were terrible for animation was the fact it was this period that the animation houses were undergoing some heart-rending changes--namely the fact that it was getting too costly to maintain US-based production of animation. I believe that companies like Hanna-Barbera laid off a huge number of employees during this period. People forget that for a while the middle to late 1970's live-action shows for children was all the vogue.

It wasn't until the early 1980's when much of the animation production was farmed out to Asian production houses that animation started to revive again for a bit--and the 1980's were the time of the toy-product tie-ins: He-Man and the Masters of the Universe, My Little Pony, Care Bears, and several others.

[TServo2049]

Originally posted by Jack
At the old TTTP, someone once said that originally there was a lot excitement about those TV Tom and Jerrys. Hanna-Barbera was going to get the old MGM crew back together, and they were going to give the cartoons bigger-than-usual budgets. Basically, they were going to make them like the originals.

But what happened to change all of this?

ABC, who bought the series, told them that the cartoons couldn't be violent. Since Tom and Jerry are nothing without violence, everyone stopped caring about the project, and it was handled just like any other cheap Hanna-Barbera 70s production.

This has happened other times with H-B's more ambitious 70s projects. Joe Barbera wanted to make the Godzilla cartoon more like the movies; I also seem to recall (or maybe I made this up subconsciously) that Hanna and Barbera also originally wanted the Super Friends cartoon to be a straight animated version of DC's Justice League comics. Of course, both times, the network said it couldn't be violent. And then H-B stopped caring about that particular project.

[Chris Wood]

One reason the 1970s was a terrible time for American action cartoons was the efforts of the group ACT (Activists for Children's Television?), which sought to make children's programming inoffensive and educational. Or in other words bland.

In the late 1960s there were a number of popular cartoons which contained a good deal of violence for the time. Jonny Quest is one good example, featuring sometimes brutal (though never explicit) deaths in most episodes. ACT managed to get broadcasters to place severe restraints on the level of violence depicted in cartoons. Thus in the Superfriends you never see anyone actually punch another character. I suppose many 70s cartoon producers figured there was no point in trying to do a realistic action cartoon if one wasn't allowed to show much action.

Also in the late 60s there was a cartoon called Hot Wheels, about the cars of the same name. ACT was outraged by this blatant advertising, and thus for many years cartoons were not permitted to be made from toy lines. This removed a major source of sponsorship for action cartoons in the 70s.

Finally, due to ACT's push for educational content, many cartoons attempted to offset their violence and commercial intent by tacking on those sappy public service announcements at the end of programs, which you may remember from shows such as He-Man, G.I. Joe, Sliverhawks, MASK, etc.

[Jeff Harris]

Originally posted by Desslar
One reason the 1970s was a terrible time for American action cartoons was the efforts of the group ACT (Activists for Children's Television?), which sought to make children's programming inoffensive and educational. Or in other words bland.

Finally, due to ACT's push for educational content, many cartoons attempted to offset their violence and commercial intent by tacking on those sappy public service announcements at the end of programs, which you may remember from shows such as He-Man, G.I. Joe, Sliverhawks, MASK, etc.

Ah. Just when I was about to chime in with my two cents, somebody hit the nail right on the head. Peggy Charren's Action for Children's Television group. Basically, their whole agenda was to make television aimed towards children as wholesome and educational as it was back in the 1950s. Their first success came in the early seventies with the removal of a lot of merchandise-based shows. Of course, in the beginning of the 80s, companies like Hasbro became smarter than ACT by advertising their toys in animated form (which they couldn't "thanks" to an ACT-guided bill in the mid-70s) in the form of an ad for a comic book, the first comic book ads ever made. Then the so-called onslaught began. Because of this onslaught, ACT grew in leaps and bounds and helped create bills to put more restrictions on television, like the V-Chip, the two-hour educational requirement for broadcast television, and the television ratings system. As a result of the passing of the bill, the ACT dissolved and Charren became a part of the Parent's Television Council (the PTC) to help censor television even further.

Kids (and those that believe in the bohemian spirit of truth, freedom, beauty, and love), know the enemy.

[hyprlynx]

you want scary stuff?

go to the ptc's website.. know thy enemy very well.

[spyke]

Filmations star trek and flash gordon animated series, while not realy violent, got away with having characters die, in some very subtle and creative ways.

[Zyzzybalubah]

While those Tom and Jerry cartoons were lame, and even though I have only seen a little of it, I find Grape Ape to be funny. Maybe it's just because I've heard him on my "Brak Presents the Brak Album Starring Brak" CD so many times. Plus his Dexter cameo was funny. Other than that, it seemed like the 70s were bad.

[Gary L Thompson]

In fairness, I always thought ACT had a point about the 1960s action cartoons. The main trouble was that a casual viewer (like a parent) would get the impression that those cartoons were nothing but violence. ("Mighty Mouse" and reruns of "Sky King," "William Tell" and "Roy Rogers" were also rough on Saturday morning, but they never drew the parental fire that the superhero fad did.) They were little more than meaningless gladiatorial contests for the most part. Well, not always, shows like "Super Six" or Bob Kane's "Cool McCool" threw in a bit of humorous parody. But these shows were not by Hanna Barbera, which was the worst offender. (I agree with Desslar that "Jonny Quest" was violent, but time has been far kinder to it than other HB material because that was never what the show was solely about. The 1960s "Fantastic Four" also was better because HB was wise enough to incorporate a lot of the Stan Lee/Jack Kirby original, far more than they did with FF characters in later decades.) I've always wondered if some of HB's better 1960s concepts wouldn't have benefitted vastly if the storytelling techniques of anime or current-day WB animation were applied to them.

I thought ABC's last-ditch attempt to save Saturday morning action with "Hot Wheels" and "Sky Hawks" actually came off better than the bulk of 1960s cartoons. Pity Hot Wheels ran afoul of ACT on other grounds, it and "Speed Racer" were about the only great toon shows America has enjoyed on racing. (The "Wacky Races" was a great concept, but in viewing it today, the weaknesses of HB in the 1970s are all too glaringly evident. Another HB show that could benefit by an anime or WB remake.)

Of course, ACT's impact would not have been so devastating were it not for the fact that animation was limited to Saturday morning in the 1970s. "Where's Huddles" failed in primetime, "Wait Till Your Father Gets Home" was a mild hit in early-evening sydication, but neither HB show had the long legs after cancellation that '60s shows like "Beany and Cecil," "The Alvin Show," "Bullwinkle," "The Bugs Bunny Show," "Top Cat," "Jetsons," and "Jonny Quest" had. Early morning and late afternoon syndication dwindled to reruns of a few Saturday and weekday syndication shows from the 1960s, and didn't revive again until the mid 1980s.

There were other factors. HB and Filmation became about the only animation studios around, when movie studios Terrytoons, Future, and UPA threw in the towel on TV animation; and when TV-only studios like Gantray-Lawrence, Jay Ward Productions, Total Television, and Translux faded out. Disney and WB didn't choose to get into TV animation until the later 1980s. Jay Hanna and Joe Barbera lost day-to-day control to a bunch of lower-level executives who couldn't care less about quality. After the explosion of anime imports in the 1960s, America saw none at all until Star Blazers and Battle of the Planets at the very end of the decade. Disney had slowed to releasing an animated feature every three or four years, and virtually nobody picked up the slack in the theaters. The old radio and theatrical-cartoon voice actors were starting to die out, and Saturday morning didn't offer enough future to attract new talent.

[zimbach]

Originally posted by Jeff Harris
Because of this onslaught, ACT grew in leaps and bounds and helped create bills to put more restrictions on television, like the V-Chip, the two-hour educational requirement for broadcast television, and the television ratings system.

I've had an idea for a while that an advanced version of the V-Chip concept could actually lead to LESS censorship and MORE creative freedom, but the studios and networks probably wouldn't go for it because it would mean more work for them (a few hours extra in the editing room per episode). If you want to hear about it, I'll start a new thread. I'm just not sure which forum would be appropriate.

[Brian Cruz]

Besides dumbing-down shows and pandering to a younger audience, I think Hanna-Barbera's success led in part to the glut of lousy 70s cartoons. Once they proved that you could be successful at producing limited animation on a low budget, everyone else jumped on the bandwagon, producing dozens of horrible shows no one's even heard of today. Plus H-B was simply producing way too many shows; with that much quantity, it's hard to ensure quality.

[Jeff Harris]

Besides dumbing-down shows and pandering to a younger audience, I think Hanna-Barbera's success led in part to the glut of lousy 70s cartoons. Once they proved that you could be successful at producing limited animation on a low budget, everyone else jumped on the bandwagon, producing dozens of horrible shows no one's even heard of today. Plus H-B was simply producing way too many shows; with that much quantity, it's hard to ensure quality.

You're right. You committed thread necromancy to prove it, but you're right.

Many studios decided to cheapen animation in this country because of the success Hanna-Barbera had with their limited series. As a result, studios like Filmation, DePathe-Freleng, and other studios lost in the sands of time made inferiorly-animated shows. Also as a result, Hanna-Barbera just got lazy.

They duplicated the Scooby-Doo formula many times:

- Goober and the Ghostchasers (Scooby-Doo with a hat).
- The Funky Phantom (Scooby-Doo with a ghost).
- Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kids (Scooby-Doo with spy rock stars).
- Jabberjaw (Scooby-Doo with The Archies under the sea).
- Clue Club (Scooby-Doo with two Scoobies).
- The New Scooby-Doo Mysteries (Scooby-Doo with a differently voiced Velma and several other Scooby cousins).
- The Buford Files (Scooby-Doo in the South with a duo that are either husband and wife or brother and sister).
- Scooby & Scrappy-Doo (okay, after the first season, it did deviate from the Scooby-Doo formula becoming straight comedy).

Hanna-Barbera just got lazy. And became too PC for the audience. Yogi's Gang was probably the worst use of the "Funtastic" characters ever. Using the premise of a ABC Saturday Superstar, Yogi and his friends got together on a flying arc and took on all social vices to make the world a perfect place. Ah, cartoons with a mission . . . sorry, but they were completely out of character and clearly unfocused. Years later, the whole character get together vibe of Yogi's Gang was seen in other shows like Yogi's Space Race (think Wacky Races . . . in space) and a much better show, Scooby's All-Star Laff-A-Lympics (which had a lot of no-name villians on the Really Rottens team, transforming the already Muttley-like Mumbley more like his "evil" predecessor instead of his heroic spy mode, pairing him with a pseudo-Dick Dastardly, and having a really mutated Squiddly Diddley alongside The Dalton Brothers and a pseudo-Creepleys family). By becoming stagnant, creators like Ken Ruby and Joe Spears broke off from Hanna-Barbera, forming their own studio, Ruby-Spears, creating shows like Plastic Man, Fangface, and The Puppy's Greatest Adventures in the 70s and Thundarr the Barbarian and various licensed fare throughout the 80s when they became sibling studios with Hanna-Barbera after Taft bought them.

Some time in the late 70s, Hanna-Barbera launched an Australian-based studio, Southern Star, which animated a lot of shows for them in the 80s, starting with Drac Pack and making the more "human" looking shows for the studio like Teen Wolf and the CBS Storybreak shows. For some reason, Southern Star remains independant from Hanna-Barbera and continues to this day producing shows.

The advant of syndication's prominence in the late 70s helped engineer the changing rules of television animation for the decades ahead. Without following particular network standards nor having to adhere to industry guidelines, syndicated cartoons became very popular and more flexible than the network shows. Syndication got away with a lot for a long time, and networks grew frustrated with what syndicators could "get away with." So, guidelines changed a little. But it is troubling when, say, CBS showed The Bugs Bunny/Road Runner Show with numerous cuts within the hour while a local independent network could air the same shorts intact. Networks have been trying to play catch up with indy networks for years, and when they did, cable and the new networks of Fox and The WB came along.

The first network to completely give up on animation was NBC in 1992. The other networks let their cable counterparts take over their Saturday lineups years later. Now ABC and CBS rely completely on cable reruns for their Saturday lineups, and that's sad.

You could almost say that the grunge of bad 70s cartoons and the circumstances behind their creation were just the beginning of the end of Saturday mornings on the traditional networks.

[Dub]

You're right. You committed thread necromancy to prove it, but you're right.

Many studios decided to cheapen animation in this country because of the success Hanna-Barbera had with their limited series. As a result, studios like Filmation, DePathe-Freleng, and other studios lost in the sands of time made inferiorly-animated shows. Also as a result, Hanna-Barbera just got lazy.

Filamtion and Depatie-Freleng ESPECIALLY. Has anyone here ever heard of two rare gems called Super President and Super 6? They were aired at the San Diego comicon this year and have to be the single worst abominations I've ever seen.

Filmation's track record speaks for itself.

They duplicated the Scooby-Doo formula many times:

- Goober and the Ghostchasers (Scooby-Doo with a hat).

Never did see that one.

- The Funky Phantom (Scooby-Doo with a ghost).

A british ghost!

- Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kids (Scooby-Doo with spy rock stars).

Never saw that one but I heard it was the worst of the clones.

- Jabberjaw (Scooby-Doo with The Archies under the sea).

LOL! But its Jabberjaw! Everybody likes Jabberjaw ^__^ They played that "You've Got To Believe In Love" song every other episode. Gawd I hated that.

- Clue Club (Scooby-Doo with two Scoobies).

You know - call me crazy, but this was the only Scooby clone I liked. Its not bad. And you'd think it would be with Woofer and Wimper but its really not. Its the only one I'd consider tolerable anyway.

- The New Scooby-Doo Mysteries (Scooby-Doo with a differently voiced Velma and several other Scooby cousins).

Dont you mean the Scooby Doo Show? I thought New Mysteries was the one with the guest stars.

- The Buford Files (Scooby-Doo in the South with a duo that are either husband and wife or brother and sister).

AAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHH!! now this was truly awful. Especially since it was paired with Galloping Ghost.

- Scooby & Scrappy-Doo (okay, after the first season, it did deviate from the Scooby-Doo formula becoming straight comedy).

The first season is OK. Not great, but not fully abominable YET. As far as the ORIGINAL Scooby formula goes, this is the worst for obvious reasons if you forget the comedy format ever existed. Anything afterwards is bar none grade A crap and a half :P

Hanna-Barbera just got lazy. And became too PC for the audience. Yogi's Gang was probably the worst use of the "Funtastic" characters ever. Using the premise of a ABC Saturday Superstar, Yogi and his friends got together on a flying arc and took on all social vices to make the world a perfect place. Ah, cartoons with a mission . . . sorry, but they were completely out of character and clearly unfocused.

I was weaned on Treasure Hunt, the stupid Yo Yogi cartoon, and the original shorts. So when I finally saw Yogi's Ark years later I was absolutely APPALED. XD My guess is that had the PCness of HB not started back then, we'd probably have gotten a premise like Treasure Hunt using the Classic HB characters, but instead we got.....that. **shudders**

Years later, the whole character get together vibe of Yogi's Gang was seen in other shows like Yogi's Space Race (think Wacky Races . . . in space) and a much better show, Scooby's All-Star Laff-A-Lympics (which had a lot of no-name villians on the Really Rottens team, transforming the already Muttley-like Mumbley more like his "evil" predecessor instead of his heroic spy mode, pairing him with a pseudo-Dick Dastardly, and having a really mutated Squiddly Diddley alongside The Dalton Brothers and a pseudo-Creepleys family). By becoming stagnant, creators like Ken Ruby and Joe Spears broke off from Hanna-Barbera, forming their own studio, Ruby-Spears, creating shows like Plastic Man, Fangface, and The Puppy's Greatest Adventures in the 70s and Thundarr the Barbarian and various licensed fare throughout the 80s when they became sibling studios with Hanna-Barbera after Taft bought them.

I've always been curious as to how - if they ever revamped the franchise - a modern day Laff A Lympics would do pairing the classic characters and the scooby types with the modern characters such as Dexter, the Powerfuffs, 2 Stupid Dogs, or even JB. Done right it could be interesting and have a terribly funny premise. The key word of course being: DONE RIGHT.

Some time in the late 70s, Hanna-Barbera launched an Australian-based studio, Southern Star, which animated a lot of shows for them in the 80s, starting with Drac Pack and making the more "human" looking shows for the studio like Teen Wolf and the CBS Storybreak shows. For some reason, Southern Star remains independant from Hanna-Barbera and continues to this day producing shows.

They do? Never knew that. I also never knew that they had any involvement in Teen Wolf either.

The first network to completely give up on animation was NBC in 1992.

I remember being small when NBC did that and I hated it like nobody's business. =\ You could probably blame it on the super success of Saved By The Bell. When NBC did that Saturday mornings were never the same since.

Now ABC and CBS rely completely on cable reruns for their Saturday lineups, and that's sad.

Amen. ABC became Disney owned and when Ninja Turtles lost steam CBS gave up altogether. Now I dont watch CBS at all and ABC while semi-watchable is a pale shell of what it used to be.

You could almost say that the grunge of bad 70s cartoons and the circumstances behind their creation were just the beginning of the end of Saturday mornings on the traditional networks.

Well - at least we still have Kids WB and Fox Box....whether or not thats a good thing though still remains under review.

[Anthonynotes]

>>
A british ghost!
<<

Well, technically, an American colonialist, since he was around/died during the American Revolution... :-)


>>

I remember being small when NBC did that and I hated it like nobody's business. =\ You could probably blame it on the super success of Saved By The Bell. When NBC did that Saturday mornings were never the same since.

<<

Posted on this before, but I blame the demise of Saturday mornings on sevearl factors, particularly: the rise of technology (VCRs, DVDs, video games, the Internet, home computers); the rise of cable as an original source of programming; the heavy media consolidation/mergers of the 90's; and the rise of TV news as a heavy profit-making source for TV networks (and particularly local stations---it's the most profitable thing they can air). I might also count the deregulation of network children's programming that came about during the Reagan administration.

Guess I can elaborate on this if anyone wishes, but Saturday mornings were probably doomed starting in the late 80's by my book, and "Saved by the Bell" didn't have anything to do with it...

-B.