The official "Avatar the last airbender" speculation thread.

[Delthayre]

I suspect that the Earth Kingdom is not a single, unified state, but a mass of smaller, autonomous states that are historically associated with each other as a single cultural unit. The analogy drawn earlier to China makes sense here.

Consider that Bumi from "The King of Omashu" was quite clearly a king, but did not seem to be the monarch of the whole Earth Kingdom. My guess is that he's either one of many kings who may be under a single high king who could well be a relatively impotent sovereign. The only precedent that comes immediately to mind is the Irish Ard Ri, which doesn't match A:tLA's asian setting, but seems like a possible historical parallel.

I think the Fire Nations relative success may be owed to it being more organized and centralized than the other nations. The Air Nomads, as their name suggests, probably consisted of numerous small, spread out groups with the largest concentrations at the temples and perhaps traditional trademeet locations. The norther water tribe seems to be a strong, organized city state, hence its description by Zhao, but the southern tribe seems to be a collection of minor villages, provided it wasn't at one point like the northern tribe and then badly beaten by the fire nation.

One other thing that comes to mind is the status of the former Air Nomad lands. With the extermination of the Air Nomads, it seems likely that someone would have moved in to occupy that territory. Those lands may be occupied by the fire nation, settlers from the peoples, or some other group entirely.

I'm reasonably confident that the creators have this all worked out, they seem to have done rather well at their worldbuilding (does my conworlding heart good), but I would love to have a crack at the series bible for this show some day.

[Freedom Fighter]

Ahh! I missed so many episodes that I feel lousy, when is the 1 hour finale going to air? Is there going to be a second season to Avatar right afterwards?

The finale is this Friday at 8 pm EST (with an encore scheduled Sunday at 11 am EST). There are two 'unconfirmed' encores also scheduled for later in December... I'll probably add those dates and times to the episode thread when they're made official.

Word of advice/advanced warning... considering how very little they've played the one-hour pilot (Episodes 1 & 2), the finale (Episodes 19 & 20) will probably also get very little airplay down the road. So try not to miss out, because you won't get many chances to see it again (short of Nick eventually releasing it on DVD).

The show does have a second season in production, but a premiere date has not been confirmed, to my knowledge. By my assumptions, though, it would probably start in February, like Season One did.

[Akelexre]

1. If and when Aang dies wont the Avatar cycle be broken? I know that Zhao used reincarnation as an excuse not to kill Aang, but if he were to die there wouldn't be anymore Airbenders right? So the Fire nation wouldn't have to worry anymore right? Oh well.

Two things.

Even with currently no Air nomads left, the cycle would still have to go through at least the water, earth, then fire cycles before it reached the personless air cycle. The job of the Avatar is to balance the land and bring peace, regardless of his alliegance, hence if Aang died then the FN would just have to worry about the next Avatar.

Also, perhaps if the cycle reached its wind portion, and there is no one there, it just might *create* a wind-bender?? Obviously you have to learn a bending art, but it seems that the *ability* to learn a specific element only exists within that respective tribe. To say the same thing in a different way, it appears to be genetics. Is it really so hard to believe that the Avatar cycle might be strong enough to effect genes?

...the status of former Air Nomad lands...

I would figure most of the former Air Nomad lands would be extremely mountainous (like Tibet, obviously) hence impractical for most people except for odd groups like in the Northern Air Temple episode. It wouldn't appeal to any of the other elements (Earth bending on a steep mountain? ), none of them could travel up, down, and around it with the sheer ease of wind benders, and though we know the *military* technology exists to project people on those lands (think the cool tank-like machines from N.A.T.) it remains to be seen how many machines like that the public and most private groups have access to, therefore most wouldn't even be able to traverse former Air nomad lands even if they wanted to.

I would suspect most of them are just sitting, lifeless, empty...

Most, anyway. And I'm sure some nation/groups lay claim to them, but who would really respect such a dubious claim in war time from their enemy?

--Alexander

[Rasputin]

Some interestng ideas you have going on there. But how is it possible to loose your bending abilities? Even if Aang is concentrating on the other elements he wouldn't loose his knowlege of airbending would he.

Not that he would "lose knowledge", he'd just get out of practice. The title of Avatar is "the MASTER of all four elements", and while he's darned good at airbending, I haven't heard him referred to (at least in the first 10 episodes I've actually watched and synopses of everything else) as an airbending MASTER, just an airbender.

"Bending" is martial-arts based magic. Without constant practice, it's bound to get a little stuffy. And on top of everything else, to achieve the required concentration for bending, as well as any martial art, requires a special state of mind and a deep knowledge of principles. The airbenders are extinct and their culture is being demolished in a way akin to China's demolition of Tibetan culture. Under such pressures, Aang can't keep all knowledge of the airbenders in his 12-year-old head.

I hope we get plenty of insight into the Earth Kingdom next year. We haven't really had a good glimpse of its leadership or its structure. I posted notes on what I thought in another thread, but the idea of the Earth Kingdom as a disorganised series of feudal fiefdoms makes the unified and centralised Fire Nation's success more understandable.

I am similarly impressed with the world-building on show. It's not good-and-evil geography like Tolkien's world is. It's the kind of world that allows far-fetched ideas like my post-war-sectarian-conflict fluff.

[I.R Joey]

"Bending" is martial-arts based magic. Without constant practice, it's bound to get a little stuffy. And on top of everything else, to achieve the required concentration for bending, as well as any martial art, requires a special state of mind and a deep knowledge of principles.

Actually Katara stated in the first episode that water bending isn't considered magic. I guess the people of that world consider it a science, even though it looks like magic to us outsiders. To some extent it's kind of like the alchemey in Full Metal Alchemist.

I hope we get plenty of insight into the Earth Kingdom next year. We haven't really had a good glimpse of its leadership or its structure. I posted notes on what I thought in another thread, but the idea of the Earth Kingdom as a disorganised series of feudal fiefdoms makes the unified and centralised Fire Nation's success more understandable.

I think you and Delthayre may be on the right track with your assumption about the Earth Kingdom, I'd also like to throw in the example of ancient Greece which was made up of seperate (often rival) city states who were able to unite against a great for like the unified Persian empire.

One thing doesn't add up with this theory though. It has been mentioned by more than one person that the Earth Kingdom has a capitol city. Therefor it must have some centralized authority right?

[CartoonOverlord]

Actually Katara stated in the first episode that water bending isn't considered magic. I guess the people of that world consider it a science, even though it looks like magic to us outsiders. To some extent it's kind of like the alchemey in Full Metal Alchemist.


I think you and Delthayre may be on the right track with your assumption about the Earth Kingdom, I'd also like to throw in the example of ancient Greece which was made up of seperate (often rival) city states who were able to unite against a great for like the unified Persian empire.

One thing doesn't add up with this theory though. It has been mentioned by more than one person that the Earth Kingdom has a capitol city. Therefor it must have some centralized authority right?

Well I'm sure there's always a king figure in a fuedalistic government. So the king of the capital city (The real name eludes me) has some poltical power probably but not as much as the Fire Lord. Though if the Earth Kingdom was a fuedalistic government there is always a chance of some lord rebelling against the king. Hm, I just thought of another possibly interesting plot point.

[Tash]

I have this funny feeling that Bao Shing She is going to be their destination in the Earth book. They've mentioned it (by name) tree times this season. I also get the feeling that the fire nation will kill two birds with one stone by invading it while the Avatar is there.

[Akelexre]

I have this funny feeling that Bao Shing She is going to be their destination in the Earth book. They've mentioned it (by name) tree times this season. I also get the feeling that the fire nation will kill two birds with one stone by invading it while the Avatar is there.

Wow, good outlook. That very much makes sense; the fact that its the Earth capital, and one of the few cities that have actually been given a name and discussed multiple times, means that its chance of eventually playing a significant role in the series are excellent.

That would be the...3rd city/place Aang brought war to simply by being there (Kyoshi and the North).

--Alexander

[Delthayre]

Well I'm sure there's always a king figure in a fuedalistic government. So the king of the capital city (The real name eludes me) has some poltical power probably but not as much as the Fire Lord. Though if the Earth Kingdom was a fuedalistic government there is always a chance of some lord rebelling against the king. Hm, I just thought of another possibly interesting plot point.

That's essentially how I see it. A capitol has been given for the Earth Kingdom, but the king of Bao Se Sing is quite possibly a relatively weak monarch who may well be largely symbolic.

To draw from Irish history, for several centuries Ireland was ruled by a system of petty kings (ri), overkings (ruiri), and provincial overkings (rí ruirech), who were perhaps nominally under the rule of the High King of Ireland (Ard Rí Érenn). In reality the High King is probably a historical fantasy or simplification with regards to most of Irish history, and even when a clear office of High King existed, the position was generally weak and impotent unless the High King went to considerable efforts to establish dominance. I'm sure some explanator parallel exists in Chinese history, which would be more appropriate, and I know there is on in Japanese history, but I know even less of those.

My general point is the highlight how limited the real power of the Earth King might be. Trying to strengthen the Earth King and by extension his kingdom so that he might more gainfully resist the fire lord could well be a plot point of book two. As could the idea of rebellious nobles mentioned above.

[Rasputin]

Very interesting. Even if it does sound like a retread of Lord of the Ring's Gondor, it's a GOOD retread.

Actually Katara stated in the first episode that water bending isn't considered magic. I guess the people of that world consider it a science, even though it looks like magic to us outsiders. To some extent it's kind of like the alchemey in Full Metal Alchemist.

Just because "it's not magic" doesn't mean it's the OPPOSITE of magic. After all, you could consider acupuncture and tai chi 'sciences', it doesn't make it so. I call it 'martial-arts-based magic' because that's exactly what the show's producers called it. I can't bring up the interview right now, but that's a direct lift.

What I was stressing was the 'martial-arts' part of it. If you practice Bugua half-interestedly (if highly competently) for many years and then abandon training to hurriedly master Tai Chi, Hung Gar and Shaolin Kung Fu in a matter of months, if you're promptly called upon to enact all you've practiced in Bugua then obviously you're going to be a bit patchy. It's only natural. It's not like normal magic where once you've memorized a spell you can call upon it at will. It's more PHYSICAL than that. It's more like driving a car than riding a bicycle, say, where the latter you can pick up again in an instant whereas the former needs constant repetition. And in this example, there aren't any cars anymore...

[Strollymonster]

Now that the season's done...

New speculation time!

-Zhao will be back, mark my words. A character that egomaniacal (he was making titles for himself when he killed the moon ) and that central to the plot as Zuko's rival won't be done after slinking into the water. Expect him to return when you least expect it.

-The idea of Spirits adds a HUGE amount of speculation. Can spirits be people, or are they limited to animals? Can they be objects? Maybe Appa and Momo are spirits?!

You see where I'm going with this. We've got to be considerate from now on about the issue of spirits...you never know what could be one.

-Koh will be back sometime...he seems to be the info guy that surpasses Roku's knowledge, so you know that'll come back into play. Wonder if he'll steal Aang's face or something, or maybe Aang will have to take him down.

-Aang will use the form of a giant creature again, I'd bet my bottom dollar. Maybe make it out of a mountain next time...it'll be like an extra from the "Shadow of the Colossus" game.

-Iroh mentioned a lost son...I've GOT to know what that's about. Zuko's sister may play into this family drama as well.

-Ozai considers Iroh a traitor now, so they're pretty much officially rogue. I'd expect more clashes between the Fire Nation and Zuko's group. They may even end up joining the Avatar

That's all I got to say for now!

[Tash]

-The idea of Spirits adds a HUGE amount of speculation. Can spirits be people, or are they limited to animals? Can they be objects? Maybe Appa and Momo are spirits?!

I'm almost certain that Momo is a spirit. I point this out every once in a while, but have you ever noticed that Momo seems to... well... whenever Aang is talking about his destiny and stuff, Momo will jump into the picture for no reason. The only example I can think of at the moment is in "The Spirit World". After being asked what Aang will do again the spirit, he replies "Maybe whatevr I have to do will just... come to me" and Momo jumps into the frame during the pause. Plus the fact that he's the only Lemer left. (those fish seemed to have been alive for a long time)

I wonder if that meditating monkey has anything to do with him?

[Delthayre]

I could imagine Zhao returning. I'm not sure that I would want it, but characters like him do have a way of not staying dead.

Something to consider is whether or not Zuko can really redeem himself to his father and nation. He and Iroh are both effectively traitors now and there is a distinct impression that Ozai has nothing besides antipathy for his son. Perhaps at some later point Prince Zuko will capture Aang and present him to the Fire Lord only to be ungracious rebuked by Ozai and cast aside without the restoration of honor and position that he seeks.

[Akelexre]

You would think a hard, warring, battle ready man like the FL would favor his son over his daughter.

But apparently the FL has *always* prefered his daughter. Interesting.

[I.R Joey]

You guys might be on to something with Momo, you recall how they met him? When they were talking about the Avatar cycle?

I also don't think Zhao's dead, see my comments in the episode 19/20 talkback.

As for Iroh and Zuko, yeah I'm pretty sure that the Fire Lord's never going to let them come back to the fire nation. I wouldn't be suprised if Zuko does capture Aang at some point, presents him to Ozai, and gets shoved aside thus making the last few years of his life futile (as in Ozai was never going to let him come back). It might also mean that Zuko wil join Aang's crew.

[Funkatron]

OK, speculation time:
We saw the Ocean Spirit take over Aang/Avatar(or vice versa, I'm not sure which) After the moon spirit died. Now, if all the spirits can posess like that and if the comet is a spirit itself...duh duh duh...you see where this is oing: the last Firel lord probably literally became the comet and Ozai probably wants to repeat the process.

[Tash]

You guys might be on to something with Momo, you recall how they met him? When they were talking about the Avatar cycle?

Plus, do you remember when Bumi said that Aang would need momo to defeat the fire lord?

I have a feeling that Momo is an air spirit of some sort, and Aang will have to fuse with it after Ozai fuses with the comet. (but there better be a kick-ass non-fused battle first)

[Akelexre]

Hey.

The fire bender from the opening is a woman.

Hmm....

Perhaps a rival of Zula's will train Aang, as revenge to get back at her?

Maybe Zula herself? That would imply a switching of sides.

Or it could be unrelated. Just tossing it out there.

--Alexander

[Jex]

Kinda new here....
Anyways I just finished watching the entire season through torrent and I just downloaded my Camcorder recording of "Seige of the North". Now, I'm gonna jump right into my point...The end of the entire story. I think that katara does marry Zukko and that aang sacrafices himself in order to save the planet. And since the next avatar in the cycle should belong to water....Katara and sukko have the avatar.In other words the avatar is reincarnated into their child, I know it seems a bit odd but because of the show's simple outline this is what I could gather as an ending.

I was a bit dissapointed to see princess yue(SP??) die in the finale. Althought she's not necessaraly "Dead" (Never know when she can come back) I wanted sokka to at least be more than friends. One question for you guys, How long where aang and the gang in the Northen water tribe? I'm sure it wasn't too long but Katara did earn the rank of master...
Pretty awsome seeing her bend so well and beat Zukko almost no sweat.
The finale was a semi sick-twisted episode and possibly ATLAB's most contraversial to date since they mentioned death and many dark subjects such as "The face stealer". Nick finally let something mature slip through and I found myself surfing through the channels to make sure it was Nickelodeon. The next season should start some-when around Febuary since that's when the first season started...."Avatar Day" would be an episode where the tribe honors aang for keeping them alive, or it could be about how aang figures out more about his past lives. I'm also glad that Nickelodeon isn't completly whoring this show out of it's schedule like spongebob (which does nothing for me). I hope that ATLAB isn't another "Invader Zim". In other words, it won't be completly Spectacular at first and die out in it's second season.*Misses Zim*
Well, all I have to say is that now that katara is a master water-bending we'll see more and different styles of action this time around. I would also like to see Jun come back for some revenge. That way we'll actually have an innovative women villian unlike the lame female villians in the past. So far I love the show I'm giving it an 8.75 out of 10.
---Edit---

To akelexre...

If you have seen the past episodes where Zula is featured you can also see that she is the firbender that appears in the interlude of the show. I know that people have metioned that Aang's trainers are in the interlude. From this you can conclude that Zula might teach Aang how to Firebend. It seems very odd but IMO it's semi-logical and the show does have many twist.
---Edit---

Almost forgot the funniest episode so far... "Imprisioned" when they have to fget haru back from the prision and katara devises a plan to earthbend to get inside the prision and free the earthbenders...here are a few quotes...

sokka: I thought you were crazy at first, katara, but this might work. There are ventaliton shafts throughout these mines. all aang has to do is send an air current from that vent to this one right here. The boulder levetates and TA-DA, fake earth bending.
Katara: Aang, did you get all that??
Aang(Relaxed and playing with a butterfly) sure,sure, I got it.
Sokka: Do you remember your cue?
Aang:Yeah,Yeah just relax, your taking all the fun out of this.
Sokka:By "this" do you mean intentionally being captured by an army of ruth-less firebenders?!
Aang:Exactly! That's fun stuff!
Sokka:Here they come get in your places..
*As three fire-nation soldiers approach the gang up the mountain Sokka and katara bump into each other and begin a very bad acting scene*
sokka:Get out of my way pipsqueak!
Katara:How dare you call me a peapsqueak, You giant-ear-cretin?
Sokka:What did you call me?
Katara:A GIANT EAR-CRETIN!! Look at those things..Do herds of animals use them for shade??!
Sokka:You better back off!! *whispers to katara* seriously back off...
Katara: I will not back off....I bet elephants get together and make fun of how large your ears are!
Sokka: That's it! your going down!
Katara: I'll show you whos boss! EARTH-BENDING STYLE!!!!
*Silence and we get a clue that it was aang's cue since it was completely quite*
Katara:*pissed off* I SAID, EARTH-BENDING STYLE!!!!
*Aang finally pushes air throught the duct and the rock rises which reveals momo*
Fire-Nation soldier: Look! That leumur, it's earth-bending!!!
Sokka:No, you idiot it's the girl!!
Fire-nation soldier:*Embarrased* oh....Of course...
Sokka: I'll hold her! *Whispers to Katara*You got 12 hours to find haru...Good luck.
*as the FN soldiers walk away with katara Sokka says to momo*
Momo....You have some big ears!

[Delthayre]

I am somewhat dissatisfied with the role that Sokka's been given. There was a brief reference to him receiving warrior training in "The Waterbending Master", but nothing was made of that. But he did get the most emotionally effective character ark in the last three episodes. I wonder what might have changed in Sokka now that he's lost Yue, his love. He's the only principal character who seems to lag with regards to his character development and advancement in skill. The latter, at least, may be parlayed into a sort of theme for the character in future episodes, along with, I should hope, a more somber bearing.

Now that Katara is a potent bender in her own right the obstacles thrown against the protagonists are going to have to be much greater in order to remain credible. And if they fall back on neutralizing Katara by keeping her away from a source of water, so help me I'll... well, I'll be a bit put out, but that's the extent of it. Anything more substantial would probably entail airfare to Burbank, which means that besides having to pay plenty, I'd have to go to California, and I do not want to go to California.

I wonder if any Zuko's crew will return to him. They seemed, especially in light of "The Storm" to hold some loyalty to him, or at least to Iroh. Granted they were pulled away without much fuss by Zhao, but I don't think much of that. The military does as it pleases with its personnel. Of course, if they were to return, Zuko would need a more robust craft than the improvised catamaran that he and Iroh were seen on at the end of "The Siege of the North part II".

I don't suppose anyone knows the date for the premiere of book 2. Whatever TV Tome has turned into gives January first, but without substantiation and unless it's part of some special New Year's affair, I do not think that likely.