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  1. #1
    FriendlyMushroom's Avatar
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    What the heck is Legend of Korra doing on Nickelodeon?

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    The same question applied for the original series. Nickelodeon is a channel mainly known for its family comedy cartoons and tween sitcoms. Then there's Avatar: The Last Airbender/The Legend of Korra, which has themes of genocide, parental abuse, an Orwellian police state, civil unrest and revolution, and the sort of fear that isn't too far off from that of being raped (Korra's fear of Amon. Yeah, I went there).

    This all makes for really good television, but Nickelodeon programming? If Nickelodeon is willing to produce and air a show like this, why don't they do it more often? The only Nicktoon that came even remotely close was Danny Phantom. It just boggles my mind that Nickelodeon produced this show, not a network like Cartoon Network, which has a history of producing thematically mature action shows. Even today, Legend of Korra would fit in much better with the lineup Thundercats, Young Justice, and Green Lantern, rather than stuff like Kung Fu Panda and the almighty Sponge.

    I'm not saying this is bad for Nickelodeon -- on the contrary, I want them to make more shows like Legend of Korra. Just expressing how out of place it all feels.
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  2. #2
    I.R Joey's Avatar
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    The irony of A:TLA and now Korra being aired after Spongeobob has struck me a number of times.

    According to the Art of Book...I think Nick greenlight the first show back in 2002 because Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings were big and they wanted to tap into the Fantasy adventure genre. Avatar is a weird fit...but I ain't complaining.
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  3. #3
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    I'll take an out of place action adventure over none at all. I'd like Nick to make more Avatar and Korra quality action series and I hope Ninja Turtles is not just played for laughs. Nick could stand to try more action animation and maybe even run DBZ Kai on Nick proper where it can be seen in a lot more homes.

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by I.R Joey View Post
    The irony of A:TLA and now Korra being aired after Spongeobob has struck me a number of times.

    According to the Art of Book...I think Nick greenlight the first show back in 2002 because Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings were big and they wanted to tap into the Fantasy adventure genre. Avatar is a weird fit...but I ain't complaining.
    It's similar to how Disney produced Gargoyles, to cash in on the success of Batman: TAS. It's a show like they never made before that stands out with their other programming.


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  5. #5
    ferrisjso's Avatar
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    I feel like this is a breath of fresh air for Nick.Hopefully they follow this up with more action shows.Maybe this will be the start of the end of the Spongebob/Dreamworks CGI near monopoly that's dominted on Nick for years.They did just lose NO.1 to Disney last i heard so hopefully they change it up a bit.

  6. #6
    Dragnatek is offline Senior Member
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    I would say that if Danny Phantom is "remotely close" as you put it then so is Kung fu Panda. really I don't get how you dismiss it along the same line as Spongebob? It's not silly hell it's comedy is probably less childish then Danny Phantom's whose comedy is almost Fairly Odd Parents level.

    Still you make a good point but really I would say KFP is as "remotely close" as Danny Phantom was. Still very far from the Avatar series but decent action comedies.

  7. #7
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    I feel that DP is more remotly close to A TLA than Kng Fu Panda for a variety of reasons.One DP is traditional 2d animation while Kung Fu Panda is CGI and two DP has a more campy feel to it than Kung Fu Panda DP has a more serious storyline with continuty that while not close to Avatar is IMO the closest thing Nick has realesed to Avatar in that comparison.Now Kung Fu Panda is'nt on the same level as Spongebob seriousness wise odviously however i still feel that it is less serious than DP.

  8. #8
    ZoddGuts is offline Member
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    Yeah, I find it odd that even after the success of Avatar, Nick didn't attempt to make more shows similar to Avatar. Only thing we've gotten is a sequel.

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    I find it odd that Nickelodeon isn't promoting it more. I mean if I were them not only would I constantly show reruns of TLK episode I would also start showing old episodes old TLA. I was half surprised they didn't have a TLA marathon leading up to the premiere of TLK, because they do that with other shows so often.

  10. #10
    Ed Liu's Avatar
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    I do have a two different answers to the question:

    - Nickelodeon may have tried getting another Avatar, but all they got was Speed Racer: The Next Generation. There may have been any number of projects that got scuttled because they weren't up to snuff, which we never heard about because they never got very far. Just because you're aiming for something doesn't mean you'll get it.

    - They were working with Marvel Animation for a while and ran Wolverine and the X-Men and Iron Man: Armored Adventures on Nicktoons. If Marvel hadn't been bought by Disney, I expect that the relationship would have continued.

    I think the answer is a combination of the two, plus a bit of general wariness of drifting too far into the teen action/adventure audience that they landed with Avatar. As a network, Big Nick tends to skew younger, but TLOK is an exceptional case.
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  11. #11
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    Well A TLA was'nt hugely sucessful in the ratings so that might be the reason.Sure A TLA made the top 25 with new episodes quite often especially in later seasons but only passed 4 million viewers once and that was the finale.Meanwhile on the other hand Korra's ratings are far superior to that of A TLA getting over 4 million viewers every episode so far.So hopefully that leads to more action shows coming up in the future as Korra helped Nick get NO.1 back for this month.

  12. #12
    Dragnatek is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrisjso View Post
    I feel that DP is more remotly close to A TLA than Kng Fu Panda for a variety of reasons.One DP is traditional 2d animation while Kung Fu Panda is CGI and two DP has a more campy feel to it than Kung Fu Panda DP has a more serious storyline with continuty that while not close to Avatar is IMO the closest thing Nick has realesed to Avatar in that comparison.Now Kung Fu Panda is'nt on the same level as Spongebob seriousness wise odviously however i still feel that it is less serious than DP.
    First this whole it's worse because it's cg is pure crap. Really CG Traditional those things do not make something better or worse. besides the topic creator uses green Lantern as an example of good action shows another CG show so clearly CG is not a factor. People need to stop looking at CG TV shows as the red haired step child of animated shows worse then others because it's CG. That notion was never correct and hell we have gotten to the point where CG TV shows actually look good and KFP is one of them. It also has good animation. Really Danny Phantoms "traditional" animation was more simplistic and limited then KFP's CG so the CG hate is pointless.

    Second Danny Phanton was not really that serous at all. Less so then Kung Fu Panda seems to be. Both shows are action comedies with simplistic plots but Danny Phanton had much more gross out as I said Fairly odd Parent style humor then Kung Fu Panda has. Really even the big bad of Danny Phantom is pretty none intimidating. Vlad while a threat is not completely serous and very childish in his motivation especially in season three. The rest of the villains less so. The only two completely serous threats are one time villains. Yes Kung Fu Panda's villains are no better but that's the point they are about the same. Though threat level they are pretty dangerous.

    I give you the continuity going for Danny Phantom but it often felt tacked on. One of the best and most series action cartoons ever has next to no continuty so really it's more a bonus and not a representation of being series.

    Danny Phantom is far less serous then KFP for no other reason then the type of humor DP uses.

    Note I liked Danny Phantom alot. Hell Danny Phantom is a better show then the Kung Fu Panda series but in terms of which show was more serous I give that to KFP. It is just as 'remotely close' to Avatar as Danny Phantom.

    CG hate and no continuity are not good reasons and all you have.

  13. #13
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    A show is'nt worse because of CGI.CGI has great potential but all the CGI Nicktoons really upset me not because they're inferior to 2d nicktoons in any way but because they're not original as every CGI Nicktoon has been based on a thaetrical movie.If an original CGI show was to come out not based on a movie i would give it a fighting chance.Now i never said CGI was bad even though it's not exactly my favorite thing in the world shows like Jimmy Nuetron and Back to the Barnyard have been far from terrible being pretty good at times.What i meant was that IMO it's harder to take CGI shows seriously because that style of animation is more geared towards comedy rathar then action.Now Kung Fu Panda is probably the most serious CGI Nicktoon except Jimmy Nuetron but i feel like it's not as serious as DP.Now DP had it's horrible moments and at times is'nt that serious but is far from being at the same level as FOP comedy wise as DP is far more serious.Also while at times Vlad was'nt serious in episodes like D-Stablized,Kindred Spirits and Bitter Reunions Vlad was very serious.Also one look at the Ultimate Enemy can show that very few shows can parallel DP in seriousness the only shows that surpass it are IZ and A TLA and LOK.Also most action Nicktoons have a lot of continuity(Avatar,Danny Phantom,Invader ZiM was heading there but was canned before the plot had time to develop,El Tugre with a simillar issue).

  14. #14
    Vaporleaf's Avatar
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    It's not so out of place, like it's been said, Nick did have Wolverine and the X-Men, and they have Monsuno and Dragonball Z/GT. Nick is just known more for its comedy, which it has more of. I'm guessing the network wants to grab different demographics in young viewers, from the pre-school age to teens, including anime/fantasy fans.

    Plus it's not like Avatar and Korra are THAT dark. They're still humorous and lighthearted enough for kids to watch.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tealeaf View Post
    It's not so out of place, like it's been said, Nick did have Wolverine and the X-Men, and they have Monsuno and Dragonball Z/GT. Nick is just known more for its comedy, which it has more of. I'm guessing the network wants to grab different demographics in young viewers, from the pre-school age to teens, including anime/fantasy fans.

    Plus it's not like Avatar and Korra are THAT dark. They're still humorous and lighthearted enough for kids to watch.
    Marvel licensed shows and imported animes are not Nickelodeon productions and are universally relegated to Nicktoons Network. Avatar and Korra are Nickelodeon Studio's own productions, and air new episodes on the main Nickelodeon network. Although I suppose it is worth noting that before Avatar aired, Nickelodeon never really dabbled in importing anime and licensing superhero shows. Maybe Avatar's success spurred them into trying those shows out.

    And while they do have lighthearted moments, the last episode of Korra really was that dark.
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    Yeah, but they're still on the network, and that's what really matters IMHO.

    And I doubt it'd break the PG rating, but I guess I wouldn't know. I still haven't seen it (lousy schedule).

  17. #17
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    It kind of does matter because if it's an acquisition Nick does'nt have to pay to make it just to acquire the rights while with a Nicktoon for example Nick has to pay to produce and pay the creator and staff to order episodes.So to make their own production it costs them more money so if they did that more it would show they're more commited to showing more serious content.If it's acquisations it no big deal as they probably acquired them for a low sum which is like a tip compared to what they'll make off advertising revenue with a Nicktoon it's not that simple.

  18. #18
    Ed Liu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrisjso View Post
    It kind of does matter because if it's an acquisition Nick does'nt have to pay to make it just to acquire the rights while with a Nicktoon for example Nick has to pay to produce and pay the creator and staff to order episodes.So to make their own production it costs them more money so if they did that more it would show they're more commited to showing more serious content.If it's acquisations it no big deal as they probably acquired them for a low sum which is like a tip compared to what they'll make off advertising revenue with a Nicktoon it's not that simple.
    You're kind of right that Nick is going to get behind its own products over acquisitions, but the economics is not as simple as you indicate. There's licensing fees that Nick has to pay each time it airs an acquisition, and Nick won't make as much (if any) money off licensing and merchandising for the acquired shows. Licensing and merchandising makes the world of kids' TV go 'round, often even trumping ratings and audience reception.

    Avatar was unusual in that the merchandising and licensing was pretty much a total bust (not surprising, judging by the number of times the merchandising people crop up as the butt of jokes in the art book, and occasionally in the show). I have absolutely no idea how they managed to fund Korra (especially because the animation budget alone must be humongous), considering that conventional wisdom among the merchandising manufacturers says that nobody will buy an action figure of the lead character because she's a girl. It's another case where the ATLA franchise has broken the mold.
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  19. #19
    Dudley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Liu

    You're kind of right that Nick is going to get behind its own products over acquisitions, but the economics is not as simple as you indicate. There's licensing fees that Nick has to pay each time it airs an acquisition, and Nick won't make as much (if any) money off licensing and merchandising for the acquired shows. Licensing and merchandising makes the world of kids' TV go 'round, often even trumping ratings and audience reception.

    Avatar was unusual in that the merchandising and licensing was pretty much a total bust (not surprising, judging by the number of times the merchandising people crop up as the butt of jokes in the art book, and occasionally in the show). I have absolutely no idea how they managed to fund Korra (especially because the animation budget alone must be humongous), considering that conventional wisdom among the merchandising manufacturers says that nobody will buy an action figure of the lead character because she's a girl. It's another case where the ATLA franchise has broken the mold.
    From what I read, the DVD sales go through the roof. I think that's where Avatar's revenue comes from besides the ratings.


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  20. #20
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    Yeah the DVD sales certaintly gave A TLA more wiggle room as far as ratings were concerned.Besides the DVDs though and the video games A TLA like most Nicktoons did'nt get much merchandise.As a matter of a fact A TLA might be the only non cancelled Nicktoon besides Spongebob to get put out on DVD they never did that for FOP,DP,JN or any of the other shows of that era except for the occasional tv movie release.However in the end what Nick cares about in the end is ratings and at the time of the regime shift at Nick in 05-06 Avatars ratings were higher than that of any non Spongebob show(at that point in time the FOP and DP usually got better ratings before that.So they kept Avatar one of the few good desicions Nick has made since that time.Remember at the time A TLA had only aired one season and a LOT of people expected the show to get canned.In its final seasons its rastings increased even more leading it to be the sucess it is today.

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