3 reasons marvel blew the Avengers cartoon!

**thanos28542** · 06-16-2002, 01:42 PM

when I first heard that the Avengers were coming to Fox as a cartoon in 98, I was sky high! I pictured the big 3, Cap,thor & ironman leading the rest of the team on awesome adventures against the likes of Ultron, Thanos , the squadron supreme,etc w/great animation & good storylines & intelligent plots! Instead they not only have the stupidity to exclude the big 3, but the series takes place like in the future n they wear these lame ass costumes! worst of all, the team consists of 2nd tier Avengers that no one cared about, the animation was aweful, the villians were altered like the zodiac & kang! Utron , one of the avengers most deadly ,if not the most deadly enemy of all is rendered cheesy & laughable! What was Marvel thinking when they agreed to this cartoon? IMOP this has to be one of the most disappointing cartoons of all time! The reason JL has succeeded is DC knew that they better include their big 3,Bats,supes & WW!then you could fill in the league w/any other combo of JLeaguers, that & great stories & animation have made JL a hit! I'd love to hear your take on the Avengers cartoon & if you agree w/me & If marvel should make another attempt to bring back an all new Avengers cartoon?

**Leaping Larry Jojo** · 06-16-2002, 02:23 PM

Hey, I LIKE Scarlet Witch, Ant-Man and The Wasp, buddy, so watch it!

I agree that the series sucked for a number of reasons. The animation, the costume design, the plots...everything you said.

I think superhero team shows like this needs more scope. They needed sweeping, world-danger storylines and melodrama. They relationships on an operatic scale and they needed some better art design. And yes, they needed Thor, Cap and Iron Man.

**Anubis C. Soundwave** · 06-17-2002, 12:12 AM

* FOX/SABAN's X_MEN, up until the last season.

Yes, we could have done more here. I glanced at this show[AVENGERS] once and groaned in agony.

**Joe Wagner** · 06-17-2002, 10:14 AM

There was a reason the big three weren't included - Iron Man had already been given his own animated series and the show didn't last, Captain America was currently having his own show in pre-production and Thor wouldn't have fit without the other two on the team.

While the show did have some issues I have to admit that I actually liked the show. Not only did they update WonderMan into a kick-butt character but overall the team was pretty good. I also enjoyed the episodes where IM and Cap guest-starred but found that the Namor episode was good as well. Not only that but I thought Vision became a very kewl character in the series.

Most shows often need work and the first season is a place to try out a wide variety of things and find out what works and what didn't. While everyone could have done without the "mighty morphin Avengers" scenes a lot of the show had a great deal of potential to make the team a great one (esp. Ant-Man).

The worst part is this show was actually renewed for a second season but it was never made because of the financial issues running through Marvel Animation Studios at the time of its production. As with most shows I'm sure that the second season would have proven to be far superior than the first.

-Joe!

**czyznyck99** · 06-17-2002, 04:06 PM

Yeah, Avengers was a cartoon with great potential. Marvel Studios going bankrupt did not help.

That's my two cents that really aren't worth much.

Later.

**Jeff Harris** · 06-17-2002, 06:29 PM

I agree that Marvel should make another Avengers cartoon. It's nice to see a series that's about 80% mutant-free

My problems with the Saban series are numerous and as a fair warning, they should never be repeated again:

1) No Iron Man, Thor, nor Captain America - How can you have an Avengers series without any of those characters in the lineup? I could understand that Marvel had projects with those characters in the works, but come on! Why would anybody make an Avengers series with nothing but second stringers, making the hokiest character, Ant-Man, lead them all? And why would they put the three who aren't even in the series in the opening titles?

I mean, it's like Blue Beetle replacing Batman, Zatanna replacing Wonder Woman, and Booster Gold replacing Superman. It wouldn't work, and it didn't work. Heck the one episode of Avengers I do remember is the one with Captain America in it, with the heroes being reminded that they didn't need the special costumes to be heroes. Speaking of those costumes . . .

2) What in the blue hell were they thinking when they turned Marvel's Greatest Heroes into the "Mighty Morphin' Fighting Avengers?" They should have left that to those sentai heroes of live-action.

3) Villians are a vital part of the series, but where was faces like Loki? How about the Masters of Evil (it would have been cool to see these guys end up as the Thunderbolts years down the line)? And Ultron was turned into a maniacal madman. Weird stuff.

I think Marvel needs to make an Avengers series soon.

**optimal321** · 06-18-2002, 08:47 AM

Yep, the series definately sucked for a number of reasons. The main one i saw that hasn't been mentioned is that the entire show looked like a big toy commercial. It seemed like they had a new toy advertisement... er, costume every episode, which also changed within each ep.

Gen2k · 06-18-2002, 11:17 AM

yea it did sux nutz but wutever happened to the silver surfer cartoon that one ruxed!

**JusticeLeagueLegion** · 06-18-2002, 10:56 PM

I thought the Avengers cartoon was stupid...the Sub-Mariner episode was the only one worth watching...of course I hadn't seen the Captain America episode though....

**James Harvey** · 06-18-2002, 11:10 PM

The Avenegers were better handled in the second season of Iron Man than in this show. And don't even get me started on Scarlet Witch's horribly bad accent. It was one of the worst accents I've ever heard for that character. The animation was clunky, the plots were juvenile and insipid, and I was watching for Hawkeye to scream "It's Morphin Time!".

**thanos28542** · 06-19-2002, 09:32 PM

Hi guys! thanks for the feedback on the "Avengers cartoon"! I had forgotten about the morphin segments! That was another reason I hated the show! Hey Joe! Where you watching the same cartoon as the rest of us? Wonderman was knocked out of the show in episode 2 & we didn't see him in action until like episode 12 against the zodiac! Hell yeah they gave Wanda the worst accent I've ever heard any female superhero ever have! Antman as leader of the world's mightiest mortals was an aweful decision by marvel! It's incredible how figures of that aweful show were made to coincide w/it's debut but we have to wait till next year to get JL figures when they'll be in thier 2nd season! It is a shame they never continued w/ the silver surfer series, that was way better than Avengers! Did anybody ever get to tape the whole season? If I remember correctly, marvel filed for bankruptcy that yr & they never aired the final 2-3 episodes of the surfer! Correct me if I'm wrong.

**Anarky** · 06-19-2002, 11:51 PM

back in the day marvel had decent animation: TF, GI Joe, etc...

but what happened in the 90s???
And it didn't help that DC/WB produced award-winning series off their franchise characters, Batman & Superman.

The Spider-Man series was mildly entertaining, and I'm being nice. I didn't care much for the animation or the cheap stock music they kept recycling thruout the series. And I hated when they tried to force that computer-animated stuff down out throats.

And Spider-Man Unlimited: that sucked on rocks!!!

Silver Surfer: horrible
Avengers: horrible
The Incredible Hulk: Horrible
X-Men: started well but fell apart as the series got older.
I'm just glad they didn't get around to ruining the Fantastic Four's good names!

memo to Marvel: LET the WB animate your properties, I think you'll like the results.

**Jimmy Kustes** · 06-20-2002, 12:20 AM

If Marvel needs a nerd to tinker around with their comic book characters in animated series form, look no further. I can think of a bunch of cool stuff to use with the Avengers, as well as Captain America and Iron Man. Man, I could even make a series off Magneto (sp?) if they want.

**Joe Wagner** · 06-20-2002, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by thanos28542
Hi guys! thanks for the feedback on the "Avengers cartoon"! I had forgotten about the morphin segments! That was another reason I hated the show! Hey Joe! Where you watching the same cartoon as the rest of us? Wonderman was knocked out of the show in episode 2 & we didn't see him in action until like episode 12 against the zodiac! Hell yeah they gave Wanda the worst accent I've ever heard any female superhero ever have! Antman as leader of the world's mightiest mortals was an aweful decision by marvel! It's incredible how figures of that aweful show were made to coincide w/it's debut but we have to wait till next year to get JL figures when they'll be in thier 2nd season! It is a shame they never continued w/ the silver surfer series, that was way better than Avengers! Did anybody ever get to tape the whole season? If I remember correctly, marvel filed for bankruptcy that yr & they never aired the final 2-3 episodes of the surfer! Correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually yes I was watching the same series as the rest of you but I tried to give the show a chance without worrying about Cap, IM and Thor being present. In the comic there are always various Avengers teams and there has been more than one occassion that these members haven't been present. Granted the show should have been called West Coast Avengers but at the same time I thought the premise of giving some of the other characters a spot-light was a good idea. As for WonderMan he was being transformed into the more ionic being that was in the comics around that time - a move that would have put him near the power level of Thor and given the team so much needed muscle. I've witnessed a lot of show that stunk in their first season and I think that a second season would have been far better than the first.

The entire first season of Silver Surfer did air and it did end with a cliffhanger. The only episode a lot of people missed was "Forever War" guest starring Adam Warlock. Fox aired this episode on a Friday night and did little to advertise it for that slot. After that they never re-aired the episode again.

-Joe!

**thanos28542** · 06-20-2002, 10:22 AM

Does anyone have the whole season of silver surfer on tape? If you do please leave a message here for me , I can't find it at comic/sci-fi conventions anywhere!

I thought the 2nd season of fantastic four was awesome! the animation was great, & they made episodes based on the FF comics! they also featured awesome guest like Thor(twice!) Black panther,ghost rider, daredevil,the hulk & silversurfer!

**spyke** · 06-21-2002, 02:06 AM

1. hire either the anime studio that did giant robo or the philipino studio that did the 2nd seasons for both the fantastic four and iron man cartoons to do the animation

2. get the producers,writers,and story board artists who worke on the 2nd seasons of iron man and FF,x-men evolution,and gargoyles to work on the show

3. have an active roster of avengers consisting of captain america,iron man,hawkeye,black panther,scarlet witch,quicksilver,vision,wonder man, warbird,and silverclaw
an active reserve group of avengers (that would be handeled similar to the way the new mutants/new recruits are handeled in the x-men:evolution cartoon, except tey wont be studnt but experienceheoes) consisting of thor,photon,wasp,antman,she-hulk, black widow (who would also be an agent of SHIELD),black knight,living lightnin,firebird,falcon,jack of hearts,and mantis

**Batmex** · 06-21-2002, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by Anarky
I'm just glad they didn't get around to ruining the Fantastic Four's good names

Too late, they did two bad F4 animated series not long ago.

**James Harvey** · 06-21-2002, 09:03 PM

As for Silver Surfer, TELETOON should be rerunning the entire 13 episodes really soon, in a few months time. I got to see all 13, but only taped 12 of them. I have the 12 from the FOX airings, but that's it. I watched the famed 'Adam Warlock' episode, but totally missed it. It also did air on a Saturday morning, as I caught the last few minutes of the episode. I thought Silver Surfer was a great series. Very Kirby influenced and had a nice dramatic tone. Something that was missing with all those other horrible shows Fox had on.

**Leaping Larry Jojo** · 06-21-2002, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by spyke
1. hire either the anime studio that did giant robo or the philipino studio that did the 2nd seasons for both the fantastic four and iron man cartoons to do the animation

I agree. Giant Robo is the best superhero group show ever made. Justice League is a distant second compared to Giant Robo. That's how good I think GR is.