FOX X-Men cartoon vs. Justice League cartoon

[Frank White]

So far I would give it to X-Men, shoot even the 10 episodes. The first 10 eps all had action, depth, and character development. Plus it introduced some interesting lingering plots and villians. Maybe the JL gets it in animation, but thats about it.

[SimonMoon5]

Well, if we're talking about the X-Men cartoon which had founding members of Rogue, Gambit, Storm, Morph, etc, well...

It's an interesting comparison, as I had just the other day managed to put my finger on one of the weakness of the Justice League cartoon that I had not previously been able to articulate... and this is a weakness shared by the X-Men cartoon as well.

One thing that makes the Justice League comic book work is that the readers know the characters; the heroes don't have to develop during the League stories as they have their own comics for that. The idea of the League is to take these characters with their own involved and complicated histories (which we the readers know backwards and forwards) and bring them together.

The Justice League cartoon can't do this, of course. Apart from Superman and Batman, the cartoony League doesn't have any heroes like this. So, when we see the cartoony heroes gather, it lacks the synergy possessed by the real version of the League.

Oops, I'm rambling; that's not the flaw I mentioned above, though it's related to it.

Why call this cartoon "Justice League"? Because it's based on the comics? Ha! It's not based on the comics at all.

"But..." you might say, "but... the characters are the same, right?"

Well, no, of course the characters aren't the same. For example, John Stewart was almost never a member of the real League, nor was his personality like the one in the cartoon. Similar differences exist for the others, etc, etc. (Superman is actually one of the most powerful members in the comics.)

Okay, so the characters aren't the same. But the stories are, right? Well, no, of course not. You can't tell the same stories if the characters are different. Where's the story where Green Arrow joins the League after splitting a giant diamond in which the League is trapped? Well, Green Arrow will never join the League, so we can't tell that one. What about the story where Hawkman joins? Well, no, we can't tell that one. How about the pivotal stories where Red Tornado joins and dies and comes back and so on? Uh, nope. Meeting the JSA? Not gonna happen. Hawkman and Green Arrow's squabbles? Uh, nope. Etc ad infinitum.

So... why call this cartoon the League? The stories aren't the same as the real League. The characters aren't the same as the real League. Nothing is the same... except some slight similarity among names of characters and powers, etc.

In other words, the creators of the cartoony League have decided to adapt the Justice League into a cartoon... by changing everything about it. And that imho is not the way to do any sort of adaptation, whether it's comics into cartoons, comics into movies, or novels into movies. If you want to tell a different story, then you should tell a different story, with different characters, imho, instead of trying to pretend that there is any similarity whatsoever between the two versions.

And the X-Men cartoon was the same way.
(I bet you thought I'd never bring this back to the topic at hand.)

Any X-Men cartoon that has Rogue and Gambit as founding members who seek out new mutants like the Angel and Havok is just fundamentally flawed, imho.

Oh, and the animation was terrible, and so were the voice actors.
And the scripting was hardly stellar either. I used to try to count how many times we'd hear the sentence "Put me down!" since real violence was absent.

The X-Men cartoon was painful to watch. The Justice League is merely disappointing, so I'd have to give the edge to the Justice League.

[Frank White]

Rouge and Gambit weren't founding members. There were numerous references to the original X-Men in many episodes. In fact in one episode they show a flashback of the original X-Men in there costumes. And I actually liked the X-Men cartoon

[Mr. Obsession]

Interesting SimonMoon5, but your forgetting one very important detail: Both Justice League and X-Men: TAS take place in universes that are very different those portrayed in the mainstream comics. Sure you have some characters with the same names and similar powers, and there are some events that are very close (but not exactly the same) but that's about it.

One thing that makes the Justice League comic book work is that the readers know the characters; the heroes don't have to develop during the League stories as they have their own comics for that. The idea of the League is to take these characters with their own involved and complicated histories (which we the readers know backwards and forwards) and bring them together.

And some of those characters have a good 60+ years of stories behind them. Justice League is taking the "starting over from scratch" approach. Sure JL does have the advantage of some history through BTAS and Superman: TAS (and X-Men solved this through some references, and occasional episodes that dealt with the past of the animated show). So of course they're going to take time to introduce the characters to the audience, who not all are avid comic readers.

We're still in the "get to know the characters" stage, other than Batman and Superman we don't really know the histories of the other members of the animated League. If you give it time, and leave your expectations from the comics at the door, you might just be suprised.


As for the JL vs. X-Men: TAS question, I can't really answer that right now. X-Men had three whole seasons, JL is only halfway through it's first. It's just not fair to compare them at the moment. Ask me again when we're watching JL season 3.

[Jade_GL]

I think what a lot of people need to mention is how easy it is to jump into JL as oppossed to the X-Men cartoon. Don't get me wrong, I adore the X-Men cartoon, but it had drawn out plots that took numerous episodes to wade through. JL has plots that run two to three episodes max. That makes it easier for a newbie, as well as a JLA comic fan like me, to get into it.

And JL definately wins in the Animation department.

But I have to give X-Men a better grade for voice acting. Their voice actors were so perfect for the character. Everytime I hear Wolverine, I KNOW that's what he would sound like in real life.

JL's Superman however........

But I still think JL is better overall, mainly because of it's accessability. Not only that, but it includes a bucnh of "Oh my God, I remember that!" Moments for comic fans. Like you were talking about how they showed the "Old X-Men" in one episode. That's one of those moments, but JL has them too. In Legends the similarities between characters to comic counterparts was uncanny. An example _ The Green Guardsman could not catch the scaffold because his ring had a weakness against aluminum. This relates to GL lore about Alan Scott, whose ring had a weakness to wood. It was interesting to see them slyly tip their hat to former ideas and heroes.

Anyway, I like JL more, but I still love the X-Men cartoon for other reasons, like voice acting.

[Batman's Biggest Fan]

I don't know I like how in the first season Morph 'died' and didn't come back till the second season I loved the promo for the second season

"I'll destroy all the X-Men"

Maybe that's how Jl's first season will end with one member dieing and wanting to get revenge for some reason under the control of a villian

[Frank White]

Eh, I like long plots. Like Superman vs. Darkseid, or Ra's Al Ghul in B:TAS. I just builds up anticipation for when the hero is going to fight them. But you are right, some plots were really long and drawn out. Like Rogue not touching anybody, or Jean Grey and Cyclopses marriage. But some of the arcs were really good, particalarly the adaption of the Dark Phoenix Saga or the final battle with the Sentinals. Plus I loved how there were a lot of guest superhero's from the Marvel Universe like Captain America or Quiksilver. I havent seen this yet in JL but then again it is the first season so hopefully in the future there will be alot of great cameos.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

Originally posted by Batman's Biggest Fan
I don't know I like how in the first season Morph 'died' and didn't come back till the second season I loved the promo for the second season

"I'll destroy all the X-Men"

Maybe that's how Jl's first season will end with one member dieing and wanting to get revenge for some reason under the control of a villian

Ack, I really hope not. I can't picture any of the current JL lineup doing such a thing.

Personally, I'd put JL a mile ahead of the original X-Men animated show, only because X-Men was very much a product of the 80's, complete with all the plot lines involving time traveling, clones, doubles, cloned-doubles, time-traveling clone-doubles, doubled-time-traveling-clones from alternate universes who cloned themselves before time traveling and cloning themselves and becoming their own grandfathers right when they supposedly blew up but resurrected themselves and then cloned themselves for good measure. I held out brief hope that the cartoon would ditch all the stupid stuff of the comics, but that hope got dashed pretty quickly.

That said, I think I wouldn't mind if JL imposed an overarching plot that resolves itself throughout the season, rather than having the essentially separate episodes we've seen so far. The closest we've seen to something like that is the progression of "Paradise Lost" -> "Injustice for All" -> "Fury," where the connections are tenuous, at best.

-- Ed/Ace

[Wumbo]

time traveling, clones, doubles, cloned-doubles, time-traveling clone-doubles, doubled-time-traveling-clones from alternate universes who cloned themselves before time traveling and cloning themselves and becoming their own grandfathers right when they supposedly blew up but resurrected themselves and then cloned themselves for good measure.

....head spinning.....trying to process data.....help.....

[Jade_GL]

My point was simply that the long arcs in the X-Men cartoon made it harder for the casual watcher, or the newbie, to become involved. It's like a comic book. Would you rather pick up a one shot story, or the middle book in a five comic arc?

Besides, I love both cartoons. =)

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

Oh, I have no problem with long story arcs (I love Farscape on Sci-Fi, but I think anybody who misses 2 or 3 eps in a row is totally lost). My issue with the X-Men cartoon was the quality (or lack thereof) of the stories they told in those arcs. To me, the cartoon and comic are emblematic of the Marvel that went bankrupt, financially and artistically, in the excesses of the 80's and 90's.

Like I said, I think I'd prefer it if there were more of a sense of a "story arc" over an entire season of JL.

-- Ed/Ace