toonzoneAnimation News : Blog : Forums : TV Schedules : Wiki : Comics : Hosted : CD! : Forums  
Loading

toonzone forums - Powered by vBulletin

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4
Results 61 to 73 of 73
  1. #61
    spyke is offline Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    866
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Like This Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Convoy Rat View Post
    Okay, to me it just sounds like you're a fan of the show because everyone else doesn't like it.
    More like a diehard Marvel Animation fan who has a blind spot for everything that they put out.

    People aren't hating on the show because it's not Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. They dislike it because it is poorly written and goes out of its way to cash in on the Avengers movie, mimicking exact lines and scenes from the movie instead of trying to be its own thing. Call it whatever you want, but to many it is considered laziness on the writers' part.
    It's also (at times) poorly animated and talks down to the viewers.

  2. #62
    TheVileOne's Avatar
    TheVileOne is online now Peace Loving Shinobi
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    6,479
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by King_of_doom View Post
    You kinda ran out of excuses on defending AA and avoid some of the replies i made over "bickering and acting idiotic" It's kinda funny how you see Avengers UTS since that's how we feel with AA.
    It doesn't matter at this point. I'm explaining why I like the show and how the show is.

    The thing is that you bring that subject in the first place where you mention "Fans have become obsessed with the idea that a show has to be like a Young Justice as the standard for quality." where you are not and still getting what everyone is saying over the flaws AA has.
    It appears a great deal of anger is directed against this show because its not a carbon copy of Young Justice or Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Even Batman Brave and the Bold had people hating on it at first. Josh Keaton received hate mail when he played Spider-Man in Spectacular. Fans act very irrationally when a show isn't like their favorite version of something.

    You are entitled to your beliefs on the show. To me, these issues aren't flaws so much as things that are consistent with the characters and stories from the comics and elsewhere.
    "This is true. This is real. This . . . Is . . . STRAIGHT EDGE."


    -CM Punk

  3. #63
    PapaGreg's Avatar
    PapaGreg is offline Getting off from violence
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    303
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post



    It appears a great deal of anger is directed against this show because its not a carbon copy of Young Justice or Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Even Batman Brave and the Bold had people hating on it at first. Josh Keaton received hate mail when he played Spider-Man in Spectacular. Fans act very irrationally when a show isn't like their favorite version of something.
    Yeah its true that a lot of people hated BTBAB because it wasn't dark and Teen Titans because it was too anime looking but there is a very thick line between the hate those show gets and the shows we are talking about yeah people may not like it because these shows aren't serious but the people who saw above that still hates this show for deep reasons, horrible pacing, pandering to the movie so much that they put every scene and line in places that seem out of place, trite dailouge, making the Avengers into children, making Widow a Flawless female chharacter, sub par animation, talking down to the viewer and putting exposition down there throat with so much force that the audience is crapping backstories, and just not having a moment of silence or just have the characters silent while the atmosphere of what is going on is taking a toll on them. It doesn't matter if this was dark and gritty or light and soft, if your show has all of these painfull problems then it is a bad show in its own right

  4. #64
    spyke is offline Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    866
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by King_of_doom View Post
    I think you're comparing both the wrong way. EMH reference they use are either character designs and stuff that fits better with the character like Jarvis being A.I. instead of a human butler, just key elements from the movies that work well in the cartoon unlike AA they use the movie reference like Steve taking down the punching bag, Thor breaking a mug along and by saying "ANOTHER" or having reenact the same invasion scene from the Avengers. When MOA and Loeb took over with half of the 2nd season of the EMH, it's clear it was their idea of having Iron Man do the same scene from the episode "Code Red" where he was being chase by fighter jets and lets not forget the infamous "Powerless" episode.

    Those type of reference are the ones that are pointless, why they need to show that type of stuff if we already seen that in the movies? If they want to use reference of the movies they should try to bring up a subject that happen in the movie and incorporate it in the cartoon as other past cartoons like the Real Ghostbusters where they have used reference from the movies but just for key elements, you don't see them saying "cross the streams" every time they face with a ghost or have Peter saying "He slimed me" every time a ghost attacked him.



    Richly designed story? Sorry Vile but either you want to see AA with a good eye or you have really bad taste with the Marvel recent shows. The way they bring together the Avengers wasn't even good, not to mention on the 2nd episode where Iron Man tells them "good work team.......so lets try that again sometime, maybe 1 year or 2 perhaps we meet again" and Red Skull's Cabal it's a poor imitation of Cobra(heck, even Cobra had better ideas then the Cabal) so far the Cabal haven't shown anything that show they are a menace to the Avengers and same routing where the Avengers defeat the Cabal and over and over again.

    Honestly i find Dr. Doom's appearance being bland on AA, not to mention making him a villain for Thor instead of having others has his enemy like Iron Man or Captain America.




    I thought that was one of the stupidest things they ever done with the characters, even Black Widow wanted it and that was kinda out of character for her on fighting for cookies.....
    Quoted for the ever lovin truth.

  5. #65
    spyke is offline Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    866
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
    Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes outright mimicked scenes from the movies and comics as well. Drawing inspiration from these things seems like a smart, appealing idea to me. I don't see why it is creative lethargy. Just like its not creative lethargy when we saw Graviton lift Manhattan out of the ocean or Maria Hill do the Nick Fury t-shirt joke. Scenes like that with Iron Man are ultimately inspired by things or poses that Iron Man does in the comics.
    You confuse/mistake the ADAPTIONS of scenes from past comic stories and paying ONE TIME HOMAGES to certain movie scenes with "mimicking". A:EMH ADAPTED and/or paid HOMAGE to comic stories and scenes from the movies. AA is CONSTANTLY MIMICKING scenes and lines from the movie as if they are afraid to let the show stand on it's own.

    To me The Cabal are no less competent or bumbling than the numerous other threats the Avengers have faced and defeated before in the comics and Earth's Mightiest Heroes. I'd put them on par with the Masters of Evil who constantly crumble and bicker whenever they are about to win or reach their goal. They slip up.
    I agree.

    The reason I disagree with that is you can find plenty of examples in the comics for years of the Avengers and other superhero teams acting and bickering like teenagers and children and letting petty conflicts get in the way of doing what's right. If they got along all the time and didn't fight or get into arguments, it would be a boring show.

    In fact I recall an instance in the Avengers relaunch when they make a call to all the reserve members and there was quite a bit of bickering and in-fighting going on in that issue. Spider-Man shows up to the call and decides to leave since and the other reserve members get all snippy about it and some of them nearly come to blows. D-Man shows up and everyone puts their distance between themselves and D-Man. In fact, everyone sits far away from him because of his smell like they are high school children. It was played up as a visual gag for laughs.
    The thing is that those scenes from the comic were either (a) written better then similar scenes in AA or (b) were actually funny and did not degrade into LCD humor.

  6. #66
    Medinnus's Avatar
    Medinnus is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    2,298
    Blog Entries
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ALC24/7 View Post
    My question is when are we going to get a new episode for this show? ALC24/7
    As soon as we get a schedule or a logline, you'll see it reported here. Stu is a wizard at these things!

    As for the ongoing - I agree with The Vile One in that bickering is a longtime staple of even the best comics, and that Avengers Assemble is more than a running homage to the AVENGERS movie. Credit where credit is due - while I may not LIKE (and that's purely IMO) the Cabal, nor think that the Red Skull, as its mastermind, is being written particularly well or effectively, it at least is original (or at least as original as anything else in the broader comics and comic-to-anime world).

    My complaint with AA is more the quality of execution; the writing and dialogue is stilted and pedestrian, when I know that the writers in question are capable of so much more. AEMH adapted a lot of things, but did so with style and intelligence. Originality BY ITSELF is not a virtue - there are some rather original concepts (REGULAR SHOW, ADVENTURE TIME) whose execution I find tedious.

    Man of Action is a talented group who are writing to a low level by editorial decree, and it insults its broader audience and underestimates its purported target audience. Its not for me (clearly), but that doesn't mean that there is no reason why others may find it to their liking, especially if they are pre-determined to like the Loeb regime's every output.

  7. #67
    Stonewall is offline Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    39
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by King_of_doom View Post
    The thing is that you bring that subject in the first place where you mention "Fans have become obsessed with the idea that a show has to be like a Young Justice as the standard for quality." where you are not and still getting what everyone is saying over the flaws AA has.
    Just as an aside, Justice League/JLU was (and still is) the "gold standard" for superhero team shows (though YJ is all but "right there" itself).

    Look, let's lay it on the table: the networks have given the studios their marching orders: target pre-tween/tween/early teen boys. "Goofy boy humor" is good. Push the toys. All-ages writing is bad. No girls wanted.

    That's the reality of how shows like AA and US get green-lit. I'm sure the writers could write to JL/EMH/YJ/W&TXM standards IF the networks would allow it.

    They don't, and won't until the marketing shifts again (if it ever does). The mid/late 90s through the mid/late 00s was an extraordinary time in superhero animation where the show came first. "Moving the merch" was a 2ndary concern. And if you re-read the Dini interview, you'll see that "moving the merch" specifically means action figures. Thus the obsession with young boys.

  8. #68
    spyke is offline Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    866
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
    Look, let's lay it on the table: the networks have given the studios their marching orders: target pre-tween/tween/early teen boys. "Goofy boy humor" is good. Push the toys. All-ages writing is bad. No girls wanted.
    Even with those guidelines a show could still be good if handled right. TEEN TITANS,BEN 10/BEN 10 OMNIVERSE,SUPER ROBOT MONKEY TEAM HYPER FORCE GO,CAPTAIN SIMIAN AND THE SPACE MONKEY'S,BATMAN:THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD,ATOM,JLA ADVENTURES:TRAPPED IN TIME,the NICK TMNT cartoon,ZEVO 3,MAX STEEL,FANTASTIC FOUR WGH,STAN LEE'S MIGHTY 7,and DANNY PHANTOM are shows/movies aimed at pre-tween/tween boys with "goofy boy humor" to some degree or another, and are all pretty good. Heck, if executed right/well, even the infamous "cookie scene" that some people keep complaining about, could have been handled in a way that would have been really funny and less silly/stupid.

  9. #69
    King_of_doom's Avatar
    King_of_doom is offline kiva fan
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    4,638
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
    Just as an aside, Justice League/JLU was (and still is) the "gold standard" for superhero team shows (though YJ is all but "right there" itself).

    Look, let's lay it on the table: the networks have given the studios their marching orders: target pre-tween/tween/early teen boys. "Goofy boy humor" is good. Push the toys. All-ages writing is bad. No girls wanted.

    That's the reality of how shows like AA and US get green-lit. I'm sure the writers could write to JL/EMH/YJ/W&TXM standards IF the networks would allow it.

    They don't, and won't until the marketing shifts again (if it ever does). The mid/late 90s through the mid/late 00s was an extraordinary time in superhero animation where the show came first. "Moving the merch" was a 2ndary concern. And if you re-read the Dini interview, you'll see that "moving the merch" specifically means action figures. Thus the obsession with young boys.
    So in other words having dumb cartoons with bad and idiotic writing sells for people who has that same taste. Seems like people have forgotten that just because a show is aim to certain demographic doesn't mean it should be enjoy by only them but from everyone. These are not action shows but lets compare Gravity Falls and My Little Pony FIM where the writing is good, it does have alot of comedy but at the same time is not forced(unlike action shows that some try really hard) and they are enjoyed by the target demographic but even adults.

    Dini seem to forgot the time he worked on shows like Animaniacs and Batman TAS or doesn't admit because who else will give him his pay day.

    I don't really see why they even bother of telling them who they are targeting since the merchandise is what counts after all and this is just a rumor i heard that MOA doesn't even care if the writing is dumb since it's a cartoon....instead of being remember of writing some good shows they will only be remember as the jerks who their about the green.
    You'll never get credit for my discovery,Who's going to believe a talking head? Get a job in a sideshow*Herbert West*

    Deadpool: They replace Megas XLR for this!? Man where’s the world coming to

  10. #70
    TheVileOne's Avatar
    TheVileOne is online now Peace Loving Shinobi
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    6,479
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ALC24/7 View Post
    My question is when are we going to get a new episode for this show? ALC24/7
    As soon as we get a schedule or a logline, you'll see it reported here. Stu is a wizard at these things!
    Here you all go:

    Sunday, February 16 will be the next new episode, "Bring on the Bad Guys." Looks like Agents of SMASH and Avengers Assemble are switching off in the rotation.

    Here's the official description from Disney XD:

    The Avengers start to see how tough the Cabal is and how much strength they'll need to take it down.
    "This is true. This is real. This . . . Is . . . STRAIGHT EDGE."


    -CM Punk

  11. #71
    Medinnus's Avatar
    Medinnus is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    2,298
    Blog Entries
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
    Sunday, February 16 will be the next new episode, "Bring on the Bad Guys." Looks like Agents of SMASH and Avengers Assemble are switching off in the rotation.
    I still have my copy of that book, signed by Stan Lee (I got all of my copies of that series signed at the time). Still love the title.

    And thanks for posting it, Vile One!

  12. #72
    Stonewall is offline Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    39
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by King_of_doom View Post
    So in other words having dumb cartoons with bad and idiotic writing sells for people who has that same taste. Seems like people have forgotten that just because a show is aim to certain demographic doesn't mean it should be enjoy by only them but from everyone. These are not action shows but lets compare Gravity Falls and My Little Pony FIM where the writing is good, it does have alot of comedy but at the same time is not forced(unlike action shows that some try really hard) and they are enjoyed by the target demographic but even adults.

    Dini seem to forgot the time he worked on shows like Animaniacs and Batman TAS or doesn't admit because who else will give him his pay day.
    No, Dini is very much aware of Animaniacs, BTAS, et al. That's the level of writing he wants to write.

    Re-read the article. The networks won't let him. The last time he tried it got his show cancelled, despite positive reviews, improving overall ratings, and a broadening of the viewership..

    This is not a writer issue...this is a network issue and to a lesser extent a studio issue.

  13. #73
    Convoy Rat's Avatar
    Convoy Rat is offline Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    82
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
    It appears a great deal of anger is directed against this show because its not a carbon copy of Young Justice or Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Even Batman Brave and the Bold had people hating on it at first. Josh Keaton received hate mail when he played Spider-Man in Spectacular. Fans act very irrationally when a show isn't like their favorite version of something.
    Again, no one has stated that they wanted this show to be a carbon copy of Young Justice or EMH. Ironically though, you seem to be dodging the fact that Avengers Assemble is trying to be a carbon copy of the Avengers movie.

    I'm also finding your rebuttal that EMH is also guilty of lazy writing for "mimicking" the comics to be poorly thought out. By your standards then, I guess that would mean every cartoon that was ever an adaptation or based off of a comic book series would be "mimicking" scenes from it. That's not what we have been saying. Avengers Assemble is literally taking scenes and dialogue straight from the movie in order to cash in on its success. I'm sorry, but when the advertisements for the show stop showing what an upcoming episode is about in order to make room for more jokes straight from the movie ("They will eat schawarma!"), that's my cue to leave.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

 
toonzone quick jump
This community is listed in
the mega forums index project
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO