Fantastic Four vs. Justice League (not as pointless as you think)

[Frank White]

OK, I know this seems like a complete massacre but think about it. The Invisible Woman could just turn invisible and kill every member of the JL by putting bubbles in their bodys and blowing them up. You could say that the Martian Manhunter could get her with his telepathy but one hit from the Human Torch and he's gone. When the Invisible Woman was evil she actually did that trick on Mr.Fantastic, but it didn't kill him because he has an elastic body anyway, but if he was a human it would have been over. Another one of her tricks is to but a bubble on somebody's head so they can't breath. She could use that trick on the Flash.

[Stupendous Man]

Frank . . .


I have to agree - I think the Fantastic Four have a really good shot here.

First of ...Batman is always given credit for being able to outsmart any opponent - however Reed Richard is no sloach and effictively cancels batmans effectiveness as a strategist. Its dead even.


The Invisible Woman is really a one women wrecking machine unloosed.

The Thing can duke it out with WW & Superman.

Its a toss up.

Im rooting for the FF ( I always root for the underdog !!)

[GL2k2]

I'm not even a big FF fan, but they "know" how to work as a team. The JL would lose badly.

[Bleu Unicorn]

Originally posted by GL2k2
I'm not even a big FF fan, but they "know" how to work as a team. The JL would lose badly.

Stole the words right out of my mouth! I'm sure that it would be an interesting fight, though. Regardless of teamwork and whatnot, JL has the advantage in that they do have more members. But I have to say that the Invisible Woman definitely is a one-woman-wrecking-machine, so I have to agree with the consensus, they'd probably win. Kind of a shame, since I'm not really a fan -- and I love JL. Oh, well.

-- Uni

[Joe Wagner]

I'm actually going to follow the crowd here - FF would win.

Mr. Fantastic could run Batman through hoops trying to figure out how to counter the him while still building a device that would nulify Supes powers (if it's the JL:TAS version - a fly swatter might work). Invisible Woman would truly hold the edge over WW and Hawkgirl. Human Torch - Martain Manhunter would run away crying for his mommy, nuff said! Thing could take on any power they have and one hit from him would take out the Flash (who would probably hurt his hand at the same time from trying to beat up ol Grimm). The only one that could pose a problem would be GL but since his power relies on concentration it would be easy enough for Reed to rig something up that would effectively cancel GL from even being a factor.

-Joe!

[SimonMoon5]

If you mean the animated version of the Justice League, well, yeah, duh, of course, anybody can beat them. They're wimps.

The comics JLA might fare a little better. Let's play fair, and assume that both sides have equal preparation. Either they both have time to prepare or neither side has time to prepare.

Both sides have a genius type who can always come up with a way to beat the unbeatable, given time to plan (Reed and Batman). So, giving them time to prepare just means that it comes down to a coinflip: whichever one manages to get their plan going first wins.

So, suppose that they don't have time to prepare. This means no "Reed beats Superman" option.

Sure, the Torch can beat the Martian Manhunter. Hembeck once even drew a comic strip in which Johnny introduced himself to J'onn, and then "flamed on", causing J'onn to have a heart attack and die.

While that's going on, we still have:
Reed, Sue, and Ben versus Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, Flash, and Plastic Man. (I'll assume Aquaman is still dead.)

I'll continue to give the FF the benefit of the doubt. Let's continue to give them the "initiative" as it were. Otherwise, Flash would instantly KO Sue and maybe Reed before anybody else got to act.

Reed vs Plastic Man: takes a while to determine a winner.

Ben vs Wonder Woman and Superman: takes a while to determine a winner.

Sue vs. Batman, Flash, and Green Lantern: won't be as easy as you think.

My predictions:

Reed barely wins out over Plastic Man.

Ben gets clobbered by WW and Superman. He doesn't really stand a chance against the power levels that they routinely show, but assuming that the DC characters get scaled down (as they always do in the Marvel/DC teamups, so that the Marvel characters don't look so bad), he is unlikely to fare well against these two DC characters.


Sue vs. the others... Well, it depends on who she goes after first. Maybe she pulps Green Lantern first, since he has powers similar to hers (green instead of invisible). Batman notices and realizes that there is an invisible foe present. Pulling out a Bat-gadget (paint, gas bombs, acetylene torch to set off the sprinklers, etc), he locates Sue (probably protected inside a force field). He alerts the others before being dropped by Sue.

At this point, the battlefield looks like:

Reed, Johnny, and Sue versus an injured WW, an injured Superman, and an uninjured Flash (moving too fast to get dropped by Sue).

Well, at this point, nothing they've got can affect Superman. Reed needs time to plan, which he doesn't have. Johnny's flames aren't good enough, unless he wants to Nova Flame and kill his friends, and even then, it might not be enough. Sue's tricks aren't going to be powerful enough to affect Superman. Once Superman knows she's there, his senses can find her and keep her under observation until he's ready to deal with her.

The end. Superman wins. The others probably help out, though. For example, WW can take out Sue once Diana knows where she is and the Flash can whip up a tornado to blow out Johnny's flames. At that point, it hardly takes Superman to deal with Mr. Fantastic.

So, imho, even giving the FF the chance to attack first, the JLA comes out on top.

[Epyon999]

I'm going to go against the crowd and root for Justice League. You all forget that Green Lantern could just use his ring and trap them all in a giant green bubble. The Flash could run around Mr. Fantastic twisting him into knots. As for the human torch, Wonder Woman can handle him. And for the Thing, Martian Manhunter and Superman could take care of him. But Invisible woman, that would be tricky, but I'm sure the Justice League could find a way to take her down.

[The Green Hornet]

being a HUGE FF fan, i would think they would win

BUT


everyone makes a lot of Sue but remember this

Supes has super-hearing

invisible she may be but she still makes noise
and her force fields can be broken by an intense enough force-- superman for example

in the end, i think that JL - superman vs. FF = FF winner

with Supes its a blowout =(

[RorShaq]

Well, like someone said before,it depends on whether this is animated or comic book JL. Animated makes it more even, as the justice league has been severely scaled down in powers.

Comic version though...it's over in less than a second. Literally. Superman can move at close to the speed of light and knock out every memeber of the FF before they have a chance to think. As for the invisible woman going invisible, it's been tried before. Superman's standard response? "Try stopping your heart from beating next time."

[JLU Dude]

Also, it depends on which version of the Fantastic Four.

Superman's superhearing & J'Onn telepathy would help stop Sue, Wonder Woman, J'Onn & Superman could give Ben a beating. Green Lantern could form a bubble & trap Reed, and Flash could use his speed to make a vortex to stop Johnny. I like both teams, but I have to go with the Justice League.

[Gyro]

Fantastic Four is the best. They would definately win.

[The Green Hornet]

FF could VERY well beat the animated JL

as a matter of fact, id say definatly

[Sapphic Amazon]

In the comics, the Fantastic Four wouldn't last a minute against any Justice Laegue combination that included a few heavy-hitters. Their only chance, and I say this regretfully considering how much I love Susan Richards, would be if Mr. Fantastic devised some brilliant scientific means to defeat the JL. This plan then would have to be carried out with the element of surprise and the precision of an expert strike force. Even then, the League's defeat is doubtful, albeit now possible. However, to make things fair I will pick out only 4 JLer's (Green Lantern, Flash, Superman and Martian Manhunter) to go against the FF members of the Invisble Woman, Human Torch, Thing and Mr. Fantastic. This will be the logical set-up that springs forth from these types of arguments, which is, just throwing the characters together where it is power vs. power.
1. Mr. Fantastic's shape-changing, malleable form are utterly outclassed aginst any of the four JL members I've chosen. Reed loses easiily.
2. Human Torch vs. Martian Manhunter. J'onn completely outclasses Johnny in power, but if you're insistent that the Manhunter's psychological fear of fire is so incapacitating, I'll let the Torch win here. Torch vs. Flash. The Flash will never be touched as his speed is either near, at or beyond the speed of light. He could pummel the Torch 1,000 times per second as the Speed Force dynamics protect him against any heat generated by the Torch. The Flash could create a vacuum robbing the Torch of oxygen, thus extinguishing his flame and asphyxiating him. Or he simply could vibrate his hand through Johnny Storm's heart. Flash wins. Torch vs. Green Lantern. The energy field protects GL against any assault wagered by the Torch, whereas Johnny has no invulnerability to prevent GL from simply cutting him in half with a pair of giant energy scissors. Green Lantern wins. Torch vs. Superman. Almost as fast as the Flash, heat vision, invulnerability and super strength that is seldom rivaled means Superman wins.
3. The Thing vs. Martian Manhunter. J'onn is more powerful and would win any simple slugfest. (The Thing isn't even in the Hulk or Thor's strength division.) J'onn could telepathically render the Thing unconscious or simply become intangible and phase through the Thing and partly re-solidify disrupting the neural synopsis system and render the Thing useless. Thing vs. Flash. The Flash would never be hit and the Thing would be constantly assaulted. Think an oak tree eventually giving way to a tornado or wind storm. Also, there's the "vibrating the hand through the heart" trick of the Flash. Thing vs. Greeen Lantern. Gl can shield himself from harm and the Thing can't reciprocate. I'll ignore the near limitless offensive uses of the ring and simply have GL abandon the Thing in space to suffocate or hold him under water until he drowns. Thing vs. Superman. Is this one necessary to compare?
4. Invisible Woman vs. Martian Manhunter. J'onn's intangibility means Susan can never strike an offensive blow. If J'onn's telepathy is somehow negated by an ambient energy force field, and I don't see why it would be, this would be a stand off. Sue vs. the Flash. Susan would never have time to focus, manipulate and direct an ambient energy attack. If the Flash can't vibrate through her shield, this is another draw. Sue vs. Green Lantern. Neither one could pierce the energy field of the other. Stalemate. (Sue's awesome.) Invisble Woman vs. Superman. If Sue attempts to strangle Superman's windpipe, attack his brain with an ever-increasing force bubble or send invisible daggers up his nostrils the effect still won't be instantaneous due to Superman's great invulnerability. Therefore, Superman can still mount a major and powerful offensive strike, thus leaving Sue with two losing propositions. Abandon the offensive strike to keep up her force field, which will crumble eventually under Kal-El's onslaught, or give up her shield to keep up the offensive tactic and leave herself completely vulnerable to any easy Superman attack. Superman wins either way.
Let's recap. Green Lantern easily beats the Human Torch. Martian Manhunter easily beats the Thing. The Flash easily beats Mr. Fantastic. Even if the Invisible Woman can manage a miracle against Superman, the other three easily defeat an exhausted Sue. The best aspect of the FF is that their creation led to the creation of fiction's greatest villain- Dr. Doom.
The FF loses to the JL easily. Except, if Reed and Sue's son Franklin is an adult at the height of his powers. Supposedly Franklin will combine telepathic, telekenetic and psionic powers that will dwarf the Silver Surfer in ability and almost rival cosmic beings like Galactus at full capacity. That Franklin, if he strikes first, would lay waste to the minds of any combination of JLer's.

PS: To those who don't know, Batman is a genius, but he is not a scientist. Compared to Reed's scientific knowledge, Batman is legally retarded. However, the Dark Knight is a million times cooler than Mr. Fantastic.

Sapphic Amazon

[Gen2k]

i wouldn't know who would win ...in case of team work ff would win cause they are family. but would be outclassed in everything else the jl does...sorry to say it but jl would own them 10x over. It would be interseting to watch thou.

[Frank White]

Originally posted by Sapphic Amazon
In the comics, the Fantastic Four wouldn't last a minute against any Justice Laegue combination that included a few heavy-hitters. Their only chance, and I say this regretfully considering how much I love Susan Richards, would be if Mr. Fantastic devised some brilliant scientific means to defeat the JL. This plan then would have to be carried out with the element of surprise and the precision of an expert strike force. Even then, the League's defeat is doubtful, albeit now possible. However, to make things fair I will pick out only 4 JLer's (Green Lantern, Flash, Superman and Martian Manhunter) to go against the FF members of the Invisble Woman, Human Torch, Thing and Mr. Fantastic. This will be the logical set-up that springs forth from these types of arguments, which is, just throwing the characters together where it is power vs. power.
1. Mr. Fantastic's shape-changing, malleable form are utterly outclassed aginst any of the four JL members I've chosen. Reed loses easiily.
2. Human Torch vs. Martian Manhunter. J'onn completely outclasses Johnny in power, but if you're insistent that the Manhunter's psychological fear of fire is so incapacitating, I'll let the Torch win here. Torch vs. Flash. The Flash will never be touched as his speed is either near, at or beyond the speed of light. He could pummel the Torch 1,000 times per second as the Speed Force dynamics protect him against any heat generated by the Torch. The Flash could create a vacuum robbing the Torch of oxygen, thus extinguishing his flame and asphyxiating him. Or he simply could vibrate his hand through Johnny Storm's heart. Flash wins. Torch vs. Green Lantern. The energy field protects GL against any assault wagered by the Torch, whereas Johnny has no invulnerability to prevent GL from simply cutting him in half with a pair of giant energy scissors. Green Lantern wins. Torch vs. Superman. Almost as fast as the Flash, heat vision, invulnerability and super strength that is seldom rivaled means Superman wins.
3. The Thing vs. Martian Manhunter. J'onn is more powerful and would win any simple slugfest. (The Thing isn't even in the Hulk or Thor's strength division.) J'onn could telepathically render the Thing unconscious or simply become intangible and phase through the Thing and partly re-solidify disrupting the neural synopsis system and render the Thing useless. Thing vs. Flash. The Flash would never be hit and the Thing would be constantly assaulted. Think an oak tree eventually giving way to a tornado or wind storm. Also, there's the "vibrating the hand through the heart" trick of the Flash. Thing vs. Greeen Lantern. Gl can shield himself from harm and the Thing can't reciprocate. I'll ignore the near limitless offensive uses of the ring and simply have GL abandon the Thing in space to suffocate or hold him under water until he drowns. Thing vs. Superman. Is this one necessary to compare?
4. Invisible Woman vs. Martian Manhunter. J'onn's intangibility means Susan can never strike an offensive blow. If J'onn's telepathy is somehow negated by an ambient energy force field, and I don't see why it would be, this would be a stand off. Sue vs. the Flash. Susan would never have time to focus, manipulate and direct an ambient energy attack. If the Flash can't vibrate through her shield, this is another draw. Sue vs. Green Lantern. Neither one could pierce the energy field of the other. Stalemate. (Sue's awesome.) Invisble Woman vs. Superman. If Sue attempts to strangle Superman's windpipe, attack his brain with an ever-increasing force bubble or send invisible daggers up his nostrils the effect still won't be instantaneous due to Superman's great invulnerability. Therefore, Superman can still mount a major and powerful offensive strike, thus leaving Sue with two losing propositions. Abandon the offensive strike to keep up her force field, which will crumble eventually under Kal-El's onslaught, or give up her shield to keep up the offensive tactic and leave herself completely vulnerable to any easy Superman attack. Superman wins either way.
Let's recap. Green Lantern easily beats the Human Torch. Martian Manhunter easily beats the Thing. The Flash easily beats Mr. Fantastic. Even if the Invisible Woman can manage a miracle against Superman, the other three easily defeat an exhausted Sue. The best aspect of the FF is that their creation led to the creation of fiction's greatest villain- Dr. Doom.
The FF loses to the JL easily. Except, if Reed and Sue's son Franklin is an adult at the height of his powers. Supposedly Franklin will combine telepathic, telekenetic and psionic powers that will dwarf the Silver Surfer in ability and almost rival cosmic beings like Galactus at full capacity. That Franklin, if he strikes first, would lay waste to the minds of any combination of JLer's.

PS: To those who don't know, Batman is a genius, but he is not a scientist. Compared to Reed's scientific knowledge, Batman is legally retarded. However, the Dark Knight is a million times cooler than Mr. Fantastic.

Sapphic Amazon

Woah, woah, Supermans internal organs AREN'T invunerable. Invisible Woman could turn invisible, make a force field around herself then make a bubble INSIDE Supermans body and just expand it. True it wouldn't kill Supermans body. Ewww, that would be kind of gross if you think about it. And anyway MM has NO chance agaisnt Human Torch in my opinion. And I think Ben could take WW, think about it, Ben can go toe- to -toe with the Hulk, Hulk can go toe-to-toe with Superman, Superman can beat Wonder Woman(Well, I hope) so....

[Joe Tully]

Here's fuel for the fire...

Issues #249-250 of FF, written by Byrne, had the team fight Gladiator of the Shi'ar empire, a thinly-veiled copy of Superman. Gladiator had the advantage over the team until #250 when Reed came up with a way to eliminate Gladiator's self-confidence, which Reed had realized was related to his powers. After that, they beat Gladiator easily.

Invisible Woman is a huge asset for the FF. Partly because her attacks are invisible. It's hard to fight what you can't see.

I smile just imagining Flash running into an invisible wall at 80 mph and knocking himself out.

[Dark Knight]

OK im going to throw up my standard VS disclaimer first of all and say that there is no DEFINATE solution to questions like this, so this is how I would weigh the fight. Because that's all any of us can really do is say what we want to happen. These kinds of things are up to writers not rule books.

Ok first off Invisble woman has a HUGE edge! She can do everything that John Stewart does (im going by animated roster and he hasnt an ounce of creativity in him) only its not bright green, its invisible. So she has the edge there. The only one who could get a clean grasp on her would be MM with his telepathy and the Torch would take him out lickity split.

In this fight Batman would probably be demoted to a strategist. Theres not much that he could do offensively. And Reeds brain is definately a match for his in the area of Science but not strategy.
Batman would put the heavy hitters to work taking out Thing (Superman and Wonder Woman) and Thing doesnt stand a chance against those two. But unfortunately as they're busy doing that Sue and Johnny have the others on the ropes and Reed has the necessary cover to build counter devices out of scrapmetal (Yeah he can do that ). Sue alone could take out flash (Definately like the idea of him running head first into an invisible wall! ) while providing cover for the other remaining two (and yeah her invisible force field is virtually indestructable even to Supes, the only time I ever saw it pushed towards its limits was when Doom stole the Watchers powers and focused all of his god-like energies onto it).

Now it's Hawkgirl and Batman under the protection of GL vs. Reed and the Torch under the protection of Sue. GL and Sue would be fairly evenly matched, again, if it wasnt for the invisibility. So sue can not only provide her teammate with protection, but also stealth. Batman's keen ninja senses alert him to thier positions however theres little to nothing that can be done about the force fields of either side.

It appears that we've reached a stale mate, but not so. Each team is buying time the only difference is that Reed needs less time to come up with insanely cool inventions than it takes for the Justice League to obtain a means of disabling Sue's force feild.

Very Close call but victory to the F4. That's not to say that under other circumstances it couldnt go the other way.

[Sapphic Amazon]

Superman's internal organs are just as invulnerable as his outer skin. Otherwise, every time a powerful villain punched him in his invulnerable skull, his vulnerable brain would be damaged to the point of death. Everytime his invulnerable chest took a serious blow, his vulnerable heart would explode. Please use logic people!

Sapphic Amazon

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

What's up with all these VS threads? Does it really matter? Fantastic Four as nothing to do with Justice League...and until Marvel merges with DC (That'll be around the time earth explodes) they will still not have anything to do with each other.

[Frank White]

I forgot, Sue can make others invisible too!



Anyway, that doesn't make much sense, if his skull is invunerable than it wouldn't effect his brain. If his outer shell it truely invunerable than his insides wouldn't be affected.