X-Men: Evolution "Operation: Rebirth" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Bird Boy]

Discuss this episode of the fan-favorite X-Men: Evolution animated series!

Episode #24 - Operation: Rebirth
Original Airdate - March 30, 2002

Nick Fury informs Wolverine that Magneto has stolen a device once used to create the super-soldier Captain America. Wolverine, Rogue and Nightcrawler go to recover it. Meanwhile, Logan reminisces about his history with Captain America during World War II.

Comments?

[JohnStewart-GL]

Well what did you think of todays all new x-men evolution? I thought it was the best of this season. Captain America looked awesome! But why was Magneto older? does anyone know? Do you guys thing they'll be an ep were the cure is found?
i think it'd be cool.

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

Originally posted by JohnStewart-GL
Well what did you think of todays all new x-men evolution? I thought it was the best of this season. Captain America looked awesome! But why was Magneto older? does anyone know?

Best of the season? I thought it was the best episode period. The backgrounds were neater than usuall. And the plots can be kind of retarded sometimes...but this episode was great.

[Venom]

I was enjoyed this episode a lot. It was great seeing Captain America back on the tv. I was surprised at how old Magneto seemed to be because in "On Angels Wings" he didn't come across that old. Wolverine must be ancient. Are they ever going to get back to talking about Apocalypse... they dropped his name in at the end of that one episode and since then nothing.

[Kathy Kane]

I liked it.
But I wish that after Magneto got out of the glass and had them pinned, that Nightcrawler could asked more but the Mother line.
Plus how does Mags know about Kurt's mom, anyhow?

[Barb Gordon]

There's that one episode about Nightcrawler that deals with Rogue having gotten some memories of Kurt's. It being something in some old country in a castle and Magneto and Mystique--and Mystique being Kurt's mom. Anyhoo, I was really pleased with this ep, and yeah, Capt.America looked pretty awesome. I loved how well the WWII scenes turned out, it's pretty rare to see that in cartoon form, but I thought they pulled it off nicely. I still think Kurt should have set the bomb off, isn't Magneto going to be much stronger now that he's younger again? When they showed the one scene with Capt.America saving that kid from the camp, and the kid having magnetic powers, I was like, hey, it's just like the movie! Really cool. Logan isn't ancient, he's old, but let's see....let's say the Logan was about 30 in WWII, and that was 60 something years ago, he'd be about 90....okay yeah, that's pretty old,lol.

Barb^-^

[Sandoz]

I was pleasantly surprised by this episode. I was glad that Fury and Cap took a back seat to Wolverine's story. The scene with Wolfsbane helping Jaime with his homework was cute, and watching Logan save little Magneto was moving, in its own way. The "Are you that much like your mother?" line was cold, and great. I'm sick of all the mindwiping (grrr, me no like Jean) I'm eager to see mutants be exposed to humanity...but, on an odd note, when I first saw the silhouette in the Rebirth Chamber, I could have sworn it was Quicksilver! That would have been interesting...

[spyke]

Very surprised they included the concentration camp stuff. This was, from the little I saw of it, a great episode.

[Sandman]

Another Wolverine episode. Yawn. I actually liked this one better than Grim Reminder. Probably cause of Magneto and no Kitty. We get a little of Magneto’s past even though a concentration camp becomes a POW camp for children’s television. I think Captain America worked better as the star Marvel hero rather than bringing in someone like Spidey or Daredevil. It was somewhat easier to explain, since superheroes do not exist in the Evolution universe; at least yet. Nice scene with Kurt and Magneto at the end when Erik brings up Kurt’s mother.

My favorite scene though was of Wolfsbane helping Jamie with his homework.

Now they can thaw out Rogers and add him to that future Brotherhood/SHIELD team. Throw out Blob and Toad, replace them with Thor and Hawkeye, and you got yourself a cool Avengers/Freedom Force type team. Strike that. Keep Toad around for comedy relief. He’s too funny not to use.

[Ian]

Upon seeing this episode again, I noticed for the first time how the WW2 soldiers had real guns, a detail I had forgotten. I realized that there's a reason why it's allowed (historical accuracy), but still, it makes their absence and substitution in episodes like Cajun Spice and Uprising all the more jarring.


As to the episode itself, I think it's great. Easily the best of the seasonal Wolverine episodes.

[Mynd Hed]

Quick question-- how come the poll goes all the way up to six stars? This episode's good, but it's not THAT good. (-:

Anyway this has always been one of my favorite Evo episodes, and I was quite pleased that I managed to catch it (don't watch it regularly any more now that I've seen all of the episodes CN has aired). The only down sides were one or two cheesy segues from present to past (team of two... team of two... team of two...) and Kurt being his normal annoying self (briefings of mission paralegals and all that crap).
I also thought it was slightly dumb that Magneto would bother creating that big metal spider thingy at the end rather than just have each piece of metal move independently, and that they bothered using girders to slap Wolvie around when he could just as easily have manipulated the adamantium in his skeleton, but it was still neat to watch, so... whatever.
And other than that, great episode. Good animation as always, a nice bit of backstory for Wolvie and Magneto, a good guest star who stays in his place and doesn't take over the episode, VERY neat WWII sequences... fun stuff.

[Stu]

One of the better episodes.

It was just damn cool seeing Captain America again, who had a great design. Shame he didn't say anything, or appear again, but still it was nice seeing him.

The rest of the episode was all right, the under-utilized Wolverine having a bigger role always seems to help the show, evem more annoying stuff with Kurt couldn't diminish this episode.

****

[Rurouni Kenshin]

Captain America has to be the worst hero ever created. I mean just look at his outfit for starters.

[Stu]

Captain America has to be the worst hero ever created. I mean just look at his outfit for starters.

Out of interest, why is he the worst character ever created? His outfit is a symbol of who he is, and was designed like 60 years ago.

Have you ever heard of a character called Submarinor by any chance?

[Chosen Raven]

A poor episode. They changed Cap's origin, which was rather stupid. A concentration camp became a POW camp, another stupid move. They could have at least hinted at some people dying. To soften up war for the kiddies seems a bit disrespectful to the men who fought. Aside from being a soldier, Logan goes into the mission without using a gun(I'm probably nitpicking here, but it is rather odd). The dumbest part of the episode had to be when Rogue said she should be able to spot landmarks on the way to Magneto's base. Of course, this is the Sahara. It is largely nothing but sand dunes, which constantly change. It was only a cheesy reason to bring Rogue along. I also have to wonder why S.H.I.E.L.D. would suddenly attack Logan, instead of just asking for his help.

[Spider-Man]

This is an excerpt from a conversation over in this thread at the DC Animated Universe Board which I think would be really great to continue here. I hope nobody minds me putting it in this thread so we can discuss this further. This is where the covnersation left off:

It was not a cameo??? He was in like 50% of the episode(the visual), the only time he wasn't was when Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Rogue fought Magneto and Sabretooth in the climax and THAT would've much better if Cap was in on that too and not in contrived suspended animation like he is in every goddman animated series.

And even when he wasn't on screen the Captain America legend and the serum was 100% the crux of the entire episode(where did you think they got the name "Operation Rebirth" from anyway?? Cap's comics of course!) so for the subject of the episode to not have an actual speaking voice is just ludicrous. For someone to try and rationalize that massive glitch and say he was more mysterious and authoritative etc without one is probably giving X-Men Evolution too too much credit and it's really totally out of character for an articulate speaker and #1 leader in all of comics like one Steven Grant Rogers to go mute for so long, makes no sense for the character to act that way.

I don't get it, what do you consider a cameo, is it less than 40% or 30% or 25% of an episode, what's the official comic book animation definition of a cameo? No way was that a cameo, not in my book, he had plenty of opportunities for cogent thoughts or words. I've actually never in my life seen an episode with a major iconic character like Captain America get muted for so long, it's freaky.

I'm not saying Cap should plow in like a Deadpool and berate his enemies but jeez you would think he would utter at least one word??? Especially when he broke into the Nazi concentration camps/barracks where young Magneto was being held prisoner at least have him say "Everything's going to be okay son, NOW everyone follow me!" NOTHING, he just stares at them and waves his shield and everyone blindly follows after witnessing for the first time some seemingly a loon in a American chainmail armored super-hero duds. Not even bantering with Logan when they first meet or when the serum eats away at him doesn't tell him what's wrong???? Inexcusable!!!

I think it's a very much above average episode for X-Evo but a blown opportunity to get the most out of a Captain America appearance they possibly could. If they have the blessing from Marvel to use the character USE him and don't F around for the sake of their lil X-Men Evolution convoluted continuity. You can bet your buttocks Bruce Timm wouldn't squander a Cap appearance like that. Cap would've been done justice by Timm, I'm positive of that.

[Stu]

It was not a cameo??? He was in like 50% of the episode(the visual), the only time he wasn't was when Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Rogue fought Magneto and Sabretooth in the climax and THAT would've much better if Cap was in on that too and not in contrived suspended animation like he is in every goddman animated series.

But, he really wasn't. Kitty and Nightcrawler were in it more than Captain America.

I think the episode is one of the best Evo ever did, but it simply wasn't a team up episode. It was a flashback sequence, to explain the significance of what was about to happen in the future.

Still, Captain America fighting the Nazi planes was undoubtedly one of the coolest moments in any Marvel cartoon. I think him not speaking gave him more of an iconic presence. But that's just me.

[Spider-Man]

Still, Captain America fighting the Nazi planes was undoubtedly one of the coolest moments in any Marvel cartoon.

I agree with you there. It's a great moment for the character. I don't mind that he was silent. It's quite possible any spoken dialogue could've ruined the characters presence. I don't think it's cheap or lazy just a fair decision. Perhaps the creators didn't want to risk bungling on his voice.

My favorite Captain America appearance in recent years still remains the "Old Soldiers" episode of the original X-Men cartoon.

[tedcassidy]

I can see the point made about Cap not speaking, which does seem to me like a missed opportunity as well, but... I would like to point out that Captain America was released as an awesome animation maquette/statue in the Hard Hero X-Men Evolution line. Which, is alot more than can be said for Jean Gey, Nightcrawler, and many of the X-Men, so I guess things kind of even out sometimes in other ways.......

[Wayman Tisdale]

I agree with you there. It's a great moment for the character. I don't mind that he was silent. It's quite possible any spoken dialogue could've ruined the characters presence. I don't think it's cheap or lazy just a fair decision. Perhaps the creators didn't want to risk bungling on his voice..

"Ruined the characters presence" where the do you get this rationalization stuff from, is that a Boyd Kirkland quote? It's Captain America for crissakes, the man with the plan, the best leader in all of comics(chosen over Batman and Superman in Avengers/JLA crossover) he's the ultimate warrior and field general. He straight up believes in full on communication in battle ESPECIALLY with his teammates, be it the Avengers or Falcon or Bucky or Logan. For him not to talk during that long flashback made no sense for ANY incarnation of Steve Rogers, TOTALLY OUT OF CHARACTER. He has to assess the situation and know exactly where his new partner(Wolverine) is coming from. Wolverine talks, Nick Fury talks, young Magneto talks, but Cap is a mute, bullcrap, you can't possibly defend this complete and utter lazy ass character glitch.

You can possibly make Batman behave this way, Deathstroke perhaps, maybe Wolvie, maybe Daredevil, or Black Panther but not Cap, no way. Cap let's you know the score and is supposed to command the screen both physically and verbally. Cap speaks just as much as a Spider-Man can, and face it if they muted Spidey you'd be pissed too.

My favorite Captain America appearance in recent years still remains the "Old Soldiers" episode of the original X-Men cartoon.

That is sooo true, once again Captain America makes for the best episode of a series, how many times has this happened with Cap as a guest star 5 or 6 times throughout the 80's and 90's. Whether it's Spider-man and His Amazing Friends or X-Men Cap's appearances generate the most buzz and fanboy praise. Wonder who should get the next animated series hmmmmm??

WHEN CAPTAIN AMERICA THROWS HIS MIGHTY SHIELD(at Avi Arad's stupid arrogant big fat face)!