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  1. #1
    Stu's Avatar
    Stu
    Stu is offline Marvel Animation Age Webmaster
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    Cyclops And Rogue - Meant To Be?

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    Hey,

    This is one of those topics that has sort of come up every now and then (mainly thanks to the Frank Paur interview, specifically, the following comment;

    Quote Originally Posted by Paur
    We played the relationship card with Scott and Rogue, she makes a play for him, and why not? If anyone has an idea of what she’s going through, it would be Scott. He lives in fear of losing control of his powers and killing someone; so does she. He had a lousy childhood; so does she. He always feels isolated because of his powers and of his responsibility; so does she. And he’s the one who reached out to her and brought her into an environment of warmth, family and friends. Why wouldn’t she make a play for him? She reads Jean's actions toward Scott as mean. Jean is a player, the cheerleader who has everything, and can’t make up her mind at what she wants. Scott is an item to her, just like Duncan, and who knows whom else. Rogue thinks Jean is a dumb ass and cannot recognize a good thing when she sees it, so yeah, she’s going to make a play on the guy. (Oh, as a minor side note; on the final episode, during the peek into the future, check out who is not included in the group shot and check out whom Rogue lands next to.)
    So what did you think of thier 'relationship'? Was it just a neccesary blockage to the inevitable Scott/Jean romance, or a well thought out coupling?


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  2. #2
    tb4000 is offline Senior Member
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    I thought it was interesting seeing as how Rogue when she was initially created was the sexy southern belle that most dudes wanted but couldn't have, and Jean was the somewhat attractive but still isolated empath. Now Jean is the hardcore popular one and Rogue is the goth/emo.

  3. #3
    Silverstar's Avatar
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    I personally didn't care for the would-be Rogue/Scott stuff myself, but I'm not a 'shipper', and I never really liked the Goth/emo version of Rogue all that much, so.....
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  4. #4
    Joe Wagner's Avatar
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    Easy answer - no, no, and no again.

    Scott has always been in love with Jean, end of story. Considering they couldn't add the Wolverine element to the comic love triangle that played out for much of the 90's, I'm sure that they were looking for ways to add that element to the series. However, it just seems wrong somehow. Kind of like the whole Cyclops/Emma Frost thing they have in the comics right now.

    Just my two cents.....

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  5. #5
    The New Titans is offline Man of Marvel Marching Society
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    It was an interesting twist, I'll admit, I just wish it'd been developed more over the course of the show.
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  6. #6
    W.C.Reaf's Avatar
    W.C.Reaf is offline Senior Member
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    I liked it and wished they could've played with it more. Two reason's why they couldn't 1) they weren't allowed to do any romance on the show (hence why we didn't see any of the couples kiss) 2) Fans of the comics will go “Scott and Jean forever!!!!" and/or "Rogue and Gambit forever!!!!!!!" example provided by Joe.

    Evo was a new show with no existing continuity and could pick and choose what to use from the comics. It was done very well and fans should realise that this is not the comics and could do whatever the hell it liked. Sorry but I have a pet peeve with Evo fans who want to make it into the comic.

    Quote Originally Posted by tb4000 View Post
    I thought it was interesting seeing as how Rogue when she was initially created was the sexy southern belle that most dudes wanted but couldn't have, and Jean was the somewhat attractive but still isolated empath. Now Jean is the hardcore popular one and Rogue is the goth/emo.


    Rogue was not created as the "sexy southern belle" she was covered up a lot and didn't show any of the figure we now see of Rogue in the comics.

    Secondly: she was not "emo" and never displayed any of the personality traits. She barley even acknowledged that her mutation bothered her.

    Finally: she was made into a Goth because that was what she'd be if a teenager had her powers.

    Sorry for going a tad off-topic.

    I don't really like any of the Rogue pairing (fan made or otherwise) but the way the show used both characters was good and I wish they'd have done more with Scott/Rogue at least in friendship in the later seasons.

  7. #7
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    'Meant to be?' Oh, heck no. That pair was doomed from the start. But they should have been. As a couple Scott and Rouge had much more chemistry that Scott and Jean. Mainly because Jean didn't have chemistry with anyone. At all.

    ...Jean never did impress me in Evolution...
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  8. #8
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    lordsmurf is offline Cartoon Collector
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    Nightcrawler is the only character I remember as having any personality whatsoever. The rest of them were pretty one-dimensional. It's not the way Stan Lee saw these characters, nor would such shallow characters have survived past the 1960s.
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  9. #9
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    I really enjoyed the Scott/Rogue romance, and it was one of Evo's more successful subplots even though the relationship was doomed. (Though maybe that added to the relationship's bittersweetness.) Their scenes together in "On Angel's Wings" were more touching and genuine than any of Scott's scenes with Jean. Evo worked very well as a re-imagining of the show. It was at times radically different from the comics--why stick rigidly to the pairings? Lance/Kitty was the best pairing on the show, and it was much better than attaching her to Colossus just because they're together in the comics.

    Mr. Paur's comments are interesting. I'd like to think they got together after the Dark Phoenix Saga was over. (The less said about Gambit/Rogue, the better.)
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.C. Reaf
    Evo was a new show with no existing continuity and could pick and choose what to use from the comics. It was done very well and fans should realise that this is not the comics and could do whatever the hell it liked. Sorry but I have a pet peeve with Evo fans who want to make it into the comic.
    IMO, You can't really blame people who wanted to see XME be more like the comics; after all, the comics came first; people expect to see the characters portrayed the way they're used to seeing them. Hardcore fans resist change. I mean, would you want to see a Justice League show in which all of the superheroes were teenage pirates, Superman was a grungy biker with a cocaine habit, Wonder Woman was a nun and Batman was a mincing metrosexual who said "Fabulous!" all the time? I can tolerate change if there's legitimate reasoning behind it and if the changes work well, but I've never agreed with changing established continuity just for sake of doing something different. Too many of the revisions on XME just came off as gratuitous to me, like they made a lot of stuff different just for the sake of being different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paur
    We played the relationship card with Scott and Rogue, she makes a play for him, and why not? If anyone has an idea of what she’s going through, it would be Scott. He lives in fear of losing control of his powers and killing someone; so does she. He had a lousy childhood; so does she. He always feels isolated because of his powers and of his responsibility; so does she. And he’s the one who reached out to her and brought her into an environment of warmth, family and friends. Why wouldn’t she make a play for him?
    Funny, to me the above statements are precisely why Scott and Rogue shouldn't have been a couple; they were too much alike. Pairings in which both parties are essentially the same are boring and unimaginative; IMHO, it's much more interesting to hook different personalities up, so there will be some necessary friction and character interaction. Scott/Rogue would have been dark brooding personality/dark brooding personality, and that's just not interesting to me. It's the same reason Robin and Raven would've made a lousy couple on Teen Titans. Too many fanfic writers do that; they pair up characters solely on the grounds that they have the same personality or they're the same race or they have the same or similar powers or wear the same colors on their costumes or some other superficial reason. One or two similarities alone isn't a foundation for an effective relationship.

    As for the assessment that Jean was just "Miss Popular" who never did anything impressive or of note on the show, that's nobody's fault but the writers. Jean could have easily been a dynamic, multi-layered character on the show, but clearly the Evo writers had a Jones for Rogue and were obviously bent on making her the female star of the show. If Jean wasn't interesting, it's because the writers didn't make her very interesting. You can hardly blame that on someone else.


    Last edited by Silverstar; 10-08-2007 at 11:05 AM.
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  11. #11
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    What makes Scott and Jean a good couple? I'm not just talking XME but every continuity. This is something that's bugged me for awhile for when hardcore fans 'debate' over other pairings (such as Scott/Rogue) it comes down to "Well this original one is better" but why? What makes it better?

    The pairing seems just as dull and unappealing to me as Scott/Rogue is to others. It might be because I haven't been reading comics since the sixties but what makes it so great except for the fact that it's been established continuity for forty years?

  12. #12
    krazymed is offline Senior Member
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    I for one enjoyed the tease. It was something different. At this point, many young adults who are watching X-men related shows already know the basic story. It was refreshing to see something as basic as the Jean/Scott "romance" mixed up.

    And I agree with W.C. Reaf. The Cyclops/Rogue thing makes sense in the cartoon, while I've never understood the actual Scott/Jean relationship in the comics. But like all comic book things, it's considered untouchable because it's been around for so long and sacrilage to anyone who tries to make it otherwise.

  13. #13
    JLU Dude is offline Senior Member
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    I actually haven't seen a lot of episodes of X-Men Evolution, so I'm not going to comment on the whole Cyclops/Rogue thing. I'm just popping up here to address krazymed's post.

    Quote Originally Posted by krazymed View Post
    And I agree with W.C. Reaf. The Cyclops/Rogue thing makes sense in the cartoon, while I've never understood the actual Scott/Jean relationship in the comics. But like all comic book things, it's considered untouchable because it's been around for so long and sacrilage to anyone who tries to make it otherwise.
    That didn't stop the crew of the Justice League animated series from hooking up Green Lantern and Hawkgirl, nor did it stop Grant Morrison from having Cyclops, who was still married to Jean, and Emma Frost from engage in a psychic affair during his New X-Men run.
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  14. #14
    Silverstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLU Dude View Post
    That didn't stop the crew of the Justice League animated series from hooking up Green Lantern and Hawkgirl, nor did it stop Grant Morrison from having Cyclops, who was still married to Jean, and Emma Frost from engage in a psychic affair during his New X-Men run.
    That's not really an accurate comparison. Who, aside from die-hard comic book readers, even knew who John Stewart and Shayera Hol even were before the Justice League TV show? But even kids who have never read an X-Men comic in their lives but were already familiar with the Fox show could tell you that Jean Grey is Cyclops's girlfriend, and Rogue and Gambit are hot for each other. It's one thing to screw with characters who are relatively unknown to mainstream audiences, and another to screw with long established pop-culture continuity. Just sayin'.
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    JLU Dude is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverstar View Post
    That's not really an accurate comparison. Who, aside from die-hard comic book readers, even knew who John Stewart and Shayera Hol even were before the Justice League TV show? But even kids who have never read an X-Men comic in their lives but were already familiar with the Fox show could tell you that Jean Grey is Cyclops's girlfriend, and Rogue and Gambit are hot for each other. It's one thing to screw with characters who are relatively unknown to mainstream audiences, and another to screw with long established pop-culture continuity. Just sayin'.
    I know that, but there are still some people who complained about the whole "Haekgirl not with/not destined to be with Hawkman" thing. Sorry for hijacking the thread. That was not my intent.
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  16. #16
    Joe Wagner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.C.Reaf View Post
    What makes Scott and Jean a good couple? I'm not just talking XME but every continuity. This is something that's bugged me for awhile for when hardcore fans 'debate' over other pairings (such as Scott/Rogue) it comes down to "Well this original one is better" but why? What makes it better?

    The pairing seems just as dull and unappealing to me as Scott/Rogue is to others. It might be because I haven't been reading comics since the sixties but what makes it so great except for the fact that it's been established continuity for forty years?
    I think a lot of it was because the two have been tied to each other from the beginning. To me it always seemed that Scott was the withdrawn leader taht carried such a sense of duty he was unable to form a long lasting relationship. Granted, he had friends within the X-Men but Jean was the one that really allowed him to open up and feel more at ease within the group. Even during the Age of Apocolypse comics there was always a psychic connection between the two. The Lance/Kitty pairing never bothered me but the Scott/Rogue pairing just never seemed to fit. Granted, I'm speaking as a long time fan of the X-Men comics and as someone that truly enjoyed the Evo series.

    I do tend to agree with Silverstar though - change can be good but at the same time there should be some constants within the series if you are choosing to use the label. If they wanted to build a show around a school for mutants with no established continuity they could have easily done an animated "Mutant X" type of show. However, the X-Men title was specifically selected due to the popularity of the X-Men name. Just as no one is expecting Superman to date Selena Kyle on a consistant basis, I think the same is true with some other comic relationships. Cyclops/Jean Grey, Superman/Lois Lane, Mr. Fantastic/Sue Storm - I think these are all relationships that have been established over a long period of time that one could make an arguement that the two have become linked - even to those not reading comics on a consistent basis.

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  17. #17
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    I think they would have made a great couple at least for a couple seasons on X-Men: Evolution. While I am sure the creators of the show would have eventually given in to Scott and Jean getting together it really would have made a good plot to follow for a few seasons because they both have alot of similarities and both struggle with their powers. If anything it really opened up the possibilities that Scott and Jean don't always need to be a fixture in every animated series which looks to actually be broken in the next X-Men cartoon.
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  18. #18
    Silverstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Man View Post
    I think they would have made a great couple at least for a couple seasons on X-Men: Evolution. While I am sure the creators of the show would have eventually given in to Scott and Jean getting together it really would have made a good plot to follow for a few seasons because they both have a lot of similarities and both struggle with their powers.
    As I said a few posts above, their similarities are why I felt that Scott and Rogue would have made a lousy couple; they were simply too much alike for it to be interesting. And I quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    Funny, to me the above statements are precisely why Scott and Rogue shouldn't have been a couple; they were too much alike. Pairings in which both parties are essentially the same are boring and unimaginative; IMHO, it's much more interesting to hook different personalities up, so there will be some necessary friction and character interaction. Scott/Rogue would have been dark brooding personality/dark brooding personality, and that's just not interesting to me. It's the same reason Robin and Raven would've made a lousy couple on Teen Titans. Too many fanfic writers do that; they pair up characters solely on the grounds that they have the same personality or they're the same race or they have the same or similar powers or wear the same colors on their costumes or some other superficial reason. One or two similarities alone isn't a foundation for an effective relationship.
    Anyway, it's a moot point because a) XME is over (thank God!) and b) Rogue coupled with anybody is doomed to fizzle out at some stage, since she can't have prolonged contact with anyone without putting them into a coma or eventually killing them. That's why her Ms. Marvel powers were the only thing I liked about Rogue, and she didn't have even have them in Evo (unless one counts that one Easter egg in "Ascension").
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  19. #19
    W.C.Reaf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverstar View Post
    As I said a few posts above, their similarities are why I felt that Scott and Rogue would have made a lousy couple; they were simply too much alike for it to be interesting.
    I think he was talking about Scott/Jean there and not Scott/Rogue.

  20. #20
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    I thought the idea was kinda cute for a while and I wouldn't of mind if it developed but it just got boring.
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