Discussion of the original G.I. Joe's structure of command

[SF4Ever]

This is taken from the 1986 G.I. Joe TV movie, which started the second season of the series, "Arise, Serpentor, Arise". The previous season, the Joes had strong leadership with both Duke and Flint. For the second season, they have even stronger leadership as General Hawk is on board- he's not only the Joe team's advisor and commanding officer, he also founded G.I. Joe. We also saw Beach Head for the first time, as a gruff, hard-nosed sergeant major, but as far as the Joes were concerned, since they were under General Hawk's command, he had to deal with the fact that both Duke and Flint had more seniority than him. Duke as the Joe's first sergeant and Flint as the Joe's warrant officer, but nonetheless, under Hawk's command, both had the most seniority of all of the Joe's field commanders. That leads to believe that the structure of command in G.I. Joe is based, not on rank, but on seniority. The following year(in the G.I. Joe movie, "The Secrets of Cobra-La"), Duke's half-brother, the irresopnsible Lt. Falcon, had to realize that pulling rank won't get him anywhere. Falcon might have been a lieutenant, but it meant little in G.I. Joe, because Duke dwarfed him in seniority. Think about all the enlisted personnel and their ranks in the Joes, but when you think about it, the structure of command is based, not on rank, but on seniority. It might sound crazy, for a while, but it's also a fact. Those who can elaborate, please post, but remain relevant to the topic of this thread.

[Tobias]

I don't know if we can ever figure out the structure of the Joe's ranks. I mean, outside of that line from Flint in 'Arise, Serpentor, Arise', the Joe's ranks were rarely ever referenced.

In 'Revenge of Cobra, Part 1', after Duke & Snake Eyes were captured, then Flint & his team were taken out by the weather dominator, Scarlett took control of the team until Flint came back.

This, of course, was only because Hawk and Beach Head weren't even thought of to be put into the series yet. It's only natural to assume that the Joe's ranks were changed as the new characters were brought in:

First Mini (The M.A.S.S. Device): Duke was the leader, with Scarlett and Stalker (if I remember correctly) under him. Snake Eyes might have even been fourth in command since the team only seemed to consist of grunts beyond a few other characters (Gung Ho, Cover Girl, etc)

Second Mini (Weather Dominator arc): It looked like the chain went Duke-Flint-Scarlett, which seemed to carry over into the first actual season of the series.

Third Mini (Pyramid of Darkness): Once again, it looked liked Duke-Flint-Scarlett. But it was hard to tell since Duke and Scarlett sat most of the mini on the sateltie as Zartan's prisoners, while Flint was leading the charge on Earth.

Season 3: Hawk-Duke-Flint-Beach Head- then I'm assuming Scarlett and Stalker, who wasn't even around at that point for some reason.

[SF4Ever]

I don't know if we can ever figure out the structure of the Joe's ranks. I mean, outside of that line from Flint in 'Arise, Serpentor, Arise', the Joe's ranks were rarely ever referenced.

In 'Revenge of Cobra, Part 1', after Duke & Snake Eyes were captured, then Flint & his team were taken out by the weather dominator, Scarlett took control of the team until Flint came back.

This, of course, was only because Hawk and Beach Head weren't even thought of to be put into the series yet. It's only natural to assume that the Joe's ranks were changed as the new characters were brought in:

First Mini (The M.A.S.S. Device): Duke was the leader, with Scarlett and Stalker (if I remember correctly) under him. Snake Eyes might have even been fourth in command since the team only seemed to consist of grunts beyond a few other characters (Gung Ho, Cover Girl, etc)

Second Mini (Weather Dominator arc): It looked like the chain went Duke-Flint-Scarlett, which seemed to carry over into the first actual season of the series.

Third Mini (Pyramid of Darkness): Once again, it looked liked Duke-Flint-Scarlett. But it was hard to tell since Duke and Scarlett sat most of the mini on the sateltie as Zartan's prisoners, while Flint was leading the charge on Earth.

Season 3: Hawk-Duke-Flint-Beach Head- then I'm assuming Scarlett and Stalker, who wasn't even around at that point for some reason.

The point is the Joes had very stong leadership, and it didn't just fall with Hawk, Duke and Flint- there were other enlisted personnel who could also lead, and Scarlett and Stalker were just two, who could also lead, and let's not forget Roadblock(my personal favorite), Leatherneck, Sgt. Slaughter and the list goes on. That stands the reason why the Joes win their battles against Cobra. Now, Cobra, on the other hand, were very disorganized in the leadership department, especially with the ongoing bickering, between Cobra Commander, Destro, Serpentor, etc. Yes, the snakes were very maniacal, diabolical, vicious, ruthless, sinister and downright dangerous- they kept planning to take over the country and/or the world and eliminate G.I. Joe in the process, but failed at every turn. I'm sure there's plenty more to add in the discussion of the Joe team's structure of command.

[BlackoutCreature]

I remember reading an "official" chain of command article on a fan site about 10 years ago (God, I feel so old). Here's what it said -

In the first mini Duke is the field leader, taking his orders from General Flagg.

In the second mini and first season, Flagg has disappeared (common theory is that he died, hence why they named their aircraft carrier after him), and Duke is taking his orders from Colonel Sharp. Flint is introduced as Duke's second-in-command.

In the second season, General Hawk is introduced as the new leader of the Joes, but unlike Flagg and Sharp he's actually considered a Joe, and not just high-ranking military brass giving them orders (and will actually do field work). Duke is still the main field leader, with Flint still his second, followed by Beachhead, then Sgt. Slaughter.

[Ed Liu]

I'm guessing from some of the comments above that military chains of command aren't too familiar? Forgive me if I end up repeating information that you already know (especially if I get it wrong, since I'm strictly an Armchair Ranger ), but even if G.I. Joe doesn't get it 100% right, it's close enough that you can use it as a guide to what they probably meant.

Short, broadly defined version: your rank in the military places you in the chain-of-command. You receive and obey orders from those above you in the chain and you can give orders to people below you. The top of the chain has commissioned officers (lieutenant, captain, colonel, general), followed by warrant officers, and then enlisteds (private, corporal, sergeant). Warrant officers usually have some kind of special knowledge that puts them above a regular enlisted but below commissioned officers. Being a sergeant or higher as an enlisted means you're a "non-commissioned officer (NCOs)," giving you command authority among enlisted troops. At a platoon level, a captain commands several squads or sections, each of which has a senior NCO in command, and usually with a high-ranking senior NCO acting as the platoon sergeant. It's also worth detailing the structure of a Special Forces A-Team, which is composed of 12 soldiers: the team is lead by a team captain and a team warrant officer on the officer side, and a team sergeant and an intel sergeant on the NCO side, with the remaining 8 soldiers being SF sergeants specializing in 1 of 4 fields (weapons, communications, engineering, and medical).

With that in mind, G.I. Joe looks like a lot of special operations teams: the bulk of the troops are all NCOs (which really indicates that they're not green rookies), with their chain-of-command defined first by rank and then by seniority. Special ops units like the Navy SEALs or the Army's Delta Force and Special Forces have a tendency to ignore or de-emphasize rank in favor of seniority and ability, and since they have to be prepared to work in very small teams (possibly even individually), the spec ops guys all tend to take on a lot more command responsibility than their rank and seniority alone would justify. The Joes seem to mirror that.

Even with that in mind, I don't think the Joes ever completely ignored rank. It's just that the chain-of-command was always more defined by who was in an episode rather than by any larger, more organized command structure. Duke was always top-ranked sgt. and Flint was the warrant officer, so they were at the top of the pyramid, which makes them look a lot like an A-Team. There was never a company-grade officer on the show giving orders, which always struck me as unusual. After that, command was taken by the top-ranked soldier in the room the way it ought to be; it's just that it was never really clear who the top-ranked soldier was because they never talked about it. Some troops are obviously senior based on the number of times they give orders to others (Scarlett and Lady Jaye, for instance), and some troops are obviously not in the command structure (Doc, who was probably an officer due to his medical degree) but that's about all you can tell from the show.

I am sure that Cobra also has a comparable chain-of-command among their troops. I think the bigger reason why they failed was not an absence of a command structure, but probably because that structure was top-heavy. Cobra Commander, like a lot of totalitarian dictators, is a micro-manager, so nobody will ever make a decision without ensuring it's OK with him first. Even the most skilled soldier can end up ousted (or worse) if they make him or any of the senior Cobras angry, which puts a damper on initiative. This is in contrast to the Joes, where the individual troops are more capable and able to make decisions on their own, and someone who disagrees with Duke isn't likely to get shot for it even if it leads to a mission failure.

[ABrown]

I think that not only does Joe top Cobra in their command structure, but I think that there's another reason why Joe will always top Cobra. I think that most people will agree that the Joes have a much bigger commitment to their cause than Cobra soldiers do. So Cobra soldiers have no problem pushing around civilians, but they get cowardly when it comes to actual combat against the Joes.

[Lord Sidious]

Duke will always the "Man In Charge" of G.I.JOE

While Flint is his second in command.


(MASS Device, Revenge of Cobra, Cobra Stops the World, Jungle Trap, Gamesmaster, Synthoid Conspiracy, Traitor, Cobra Claws are coming to Town)


I consider Hawk in same bracket with General Flagg, Colonel Sharp, Admiral Ledger, General Ross and General Howe but more active than the latter 5.

They are all above Duke but are OUTSIDE the Rankings.

Below Duke and Flint are:

Beachhead
Sgt. Slaughter
Scarlett
Ladyjaye
Gung-Ho
Roadblock

Covergirl, Ace, Cutter, and Stalker also lead on some ocassions. Shipwreck and Dusty also sometimes.