My thoughts on Toon Zone's current state

Robin · 08-12-2005, 11:11 AM

I feel the need to post this. I've been lurking most of the summer, and watching events unfold over a few forums, and a couple other sites, around here. I feel we have a great forum here. I really enjoy this it and I hope it remains in is. Which is why it's so difficult posting this. This is the last time I can post before the start of the school year, when I'll have my own computer and not this crappy office one, so I want to make sure I get this right, or as close as I can. It's my last Friday off until September so I hope to enjoy it!

I'm really disappointed in what I've seen here. I've seen posters harass and just pummel mods with insults, act like jerks, get hostile towards each other and cause equally pointless problems, but the mods put on their best face and deal with it head on. So what happens? Naturally, a whole slew of posters rip into the mods, call them nazis and fascists. A user gets yelled at by another user, so obviously it's the mod's fault for not going back in time to stop that user from being yelled at, and so on. Of course, that last example is an exaggeration but I think it works.

One example I can think of is the infamous "McDuffie interview" at the DC Forum. A link gets put up to a rather poorly executed joke thread, McDuffie gets offended and leaves, and the mods get blamed. Now why not point the finger where it should have been pointed - at the person who posted it? Besides, McDuffie said this was the final straw and left the forums. Is that the mods fault? No, it's the members who were constantly giving him crap for his work. Users who weren't providing thoughtful criticism, but just endlessly bashing them on some power trip. If anything, McDuffie's departure, which he could've handled better, is to blame on the users and not the moderators. Why not own up instead of pointing the finger elsewhere? Not all users are to blame, of course, but using some lame excuse like "the mods didn't close the thread fast enough" to pin the blame elsewhere is pathetic.

After that incident I was too busy with work to visit here daily, so I sort of forgot. I was a bit repulsed by the users here so it was probably a good thing. Now, I had a vacation last week, which I'm still on, and in an attempt to catch up, I went to every forum on this site. I eventually made it to this one and saw all the stuff by Rionixis (that correct?), which led me to his site and postings by some guy named Zarius.

Now, this was funny. I love that fact that this Rionixis guy claims that the moderators and creators of Toon Zone are not true animation fans. And apparently Toon Zone also promotes piracy? I thought that was unbelievable! Gimme a break! Of course after reading more posts it's obvious that both of these guys are crazed, jealous morons who are probably bitter because Toon Zone is this huge, respected site, and their pathetic attempts at contributing to animation are bizarre, looney rants with very poor grammar. If people hate this place so much, why waste so much time complaining about it or posting here? It's so incredibly pointless. It doesn't show you're committed to changing animation for the better, or whatever stupid reason you tell yourself, but that you have alot of free time and like wasting the valuable time of other people. Get a life and grow up.

So Toon Zone does not have a single "true animation fan" according to these two, and probably a handful of other banned ex-users and bitter little kids? Well, that statement alone should tell you something is wrong...with them. Personally, I don't think there is such a thing as a true animation fan. Whether you like 1980's cartoons, the old 1930 silent material, Bruce Timm stuff, Disney stuff, whatever, you are an animation fan. Nothing makes you a "true fan." You can be a crazed lunatic fan with illusions of grandeur as you type a hilarious blog from your parent's basement, but those fans are just bitter that they don't have what others have.

If I had to consider anyone a "true" animation fan, it would be just about every person who loves talking about cartoons and has a great passion for them, no matter what the shows are. To me, it's not what you watch that defines your stature as an animation fan, or what you like or hate. What defines you as an animation fan is appreciating what you see before you, no matter what company produces it. There may be some recommend viewings that other fans to suggest, but nothing that will instantly catapult you from "regular animation fan" to "true animation fan" in an instant. But if you want to be a moron and state exactly what you have to watch in order to be a true animation fan, we'll all be waiting to laugh at you.

I think Toon Zone is open to all these different cartoons. Look at all the forums and the mods who put all this heavy volunteer work into it. These guys don't get paid, yet we give them crap all the time. They all have their own methods for modding their own boards and they do a good job. Sometimes there may be a bad call but the mods are always willing to fix it.

If people here are complaining that these boards suck then we have no where to look but at ourselves. It should be us taking the blame when boards go downhill, not the mods who try to fix it. Make an effort to make this place better, don't sit by and expect everyone else to do it for you. Help out instead of adding to the problem.

I had a bad feeling putting this thread up, that it might get me in trouble, but I don't think it will. I think the mods will understand where I'm coming from and the type of forums I hope to return to in the fall. I really enjoy this site and these boards are easily the funnest, kindest boards I've been on. I've been on so many lousy Batman, animation, and comic forums that this board was a breath of fresh air, with some really fun users. The mods really make it a great place to post. About 98% of the users actually discuss, talk, and have a great time posting, with only a few being bad eggs looking for attention they can't get in real life.

Now, like I said, I have barely been on this site over the summer, and this is the last day of the summer break I get from work. I popped on for Batman Begins and that was about it. It's very possible I missed some big event and I've totally made a jerk of myself by posting this. I also do mean to offend anyone. That is not the intention of this post. I wanted to get my thoughts up where alot of people might see it, and hopefully cause some others to re-evaluate why and what they do. The morons will remain as such, no doubt, but I hope the more sensible users stop and think.

I can only imagine what my opinion might be like if I had forum access every day. I can't say it'd be better or worse, but hopefully better. Anyways, that's my feedback on this site and the sudden wrongful finger pointing that looms overheard. If this thread needs to be closed to avoid any type of flame war than I totally understand. I just wanted to get my thoughts up in here. With the new fall season coming up and all those new episodes I can't wait for some thoughtful discussion.

**Spider-Man** · 08-12-2005, 05:12 PM

I think this is a really good post Robin. It's something that probably needs to be said. I can't imagine how hard it must be to mod boards like the DC forum or the General Animation forum. Those must be really difficult to look after and all the mods volunteer to do this. It would be nice if more people saw this post and really took the time to read it. I bet the mods appreciate to hear that we admire the work they do here. To put up with thousands of us can't be the easiest thing to do.

**Duke** · 08-12-2005, 11:44 PM

You've probably gotten a lot of PMs about this, but I'll say it here: All the Mods here at Toon Zone absolutely love that article and are very appriciative of it.

**Tanooki** · 08-13-2005, 01:26 AM

what duke said. thanks, robin!

**Ajax** · 08-13-2005, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by Robin

One example I can think of is the infamous "McDuffie interview" at the DC Forum. A link gets put up to a rather poorly executed joke thread, McDuffie gets offended and leaves, and the mods get blamed. Now why not point the finger where it should have been pointed - at the person who posted it? Besides, McDuffie said this was the final straw and left the forums. Is that the mods fault? No, it's the members who were constantly giving him crap for his work.

I think that whole incident was a result of people who have too much time on thier hands and those who thought they were uncovering a mod conspiracy. It was hilarious, it was like everyone had this inherit instinct to prove the mods wrong or catch them in some sort of lie. I tell you, I can't get enough of these people.

I eventually made it to this one and saw all the stuff by Rionixis (that correct?), which led me to his site and postings by some guy named Zarius.

I think this one was more of a "meant to piss off people" thing and not meant to be taken at heart or literally.

And apparently Toon Zone also promotes piracy? I thought that was unbelievable!

That was started by one of the members, who IMO, was just trying to stir up ****. It was like his true intention was not to alert the mods about the piracy ads, but to rip on Toon Zone. You know sometimes I think to myself that people here have some sort of hidden agenda when it comes to the mods.

**Fone Bone** · 08-13-2005, 07:19 AM

I contributed to this mess and I just want to say I'm sorry to the mods. I was so upset because on Mr. McDuffie's site he implied that the mods were responsible and that made me see red. I'm sorry to anyone I offended but I want to let people know that I only was concerned about that because I believe Toon Zone is a wonderful place and I didn't want anyone, especially Mr. McDuffie to feel that they were unwelcome here. Sorry again.

**Spider-Man** · 08-13-2005, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Comic Book Guy

I think that whole incident was a result of people who have too much time on thier hands and those who thought they were uncovering a mod conspiracy. It was hilarious, it was like everyone had this inherit instinct to prove the mods wrong or catch them in some sort of lie. I tell you, I can't get enough of these people.

That's what I find so mindboggling about some of the behaviour here. All these mods volunteer their time to make sure the boards run smooth, so why would there be some sort of giant conspiracy? It is pretty hilarious! It's just wrong to see this kind of thing but the mods do a good job in standing their ground.

I bet it must be rough for the DC forum mods who not only have to put up with this but also all the complaints about the Timm universe being on the way out and the new DC cartoons slowly moving in. Things can't be easy for them that's for sure.

It is good to know that most users here do have some common sense. And I do suppose the ones who make the most trouble are the loudest to try and be most effective but they just end up making themselves look ridiculous. I agree with you comment on the hidden agenda towards mods. I can see alot of users holding a grudge for being warned and deciding to just make life hell for the mods unti they eventually get banned but what would that prove?

Well I guess it doesn't matter. I just hope the mods know that even though they get alot of crap they're really appreciated by alot of people here.

**efumf** · 08-14-2005, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Comic Book Guy

That was started by one of the members, who IMO, was just trying to stir up ****.

I'd defend myself, but apparently criticism from a concerned animation fan worried about piracy isn't welcome here. I'm on my way to a ban and I have no idea why.

When a user is too worried to post his thoughts on anything for fear of the royal banstick that is dangerously close to his behind, you can presume the moderators are a tad too sensitive on these boards.

I know I'll never bring up TZ profitting from piracy again on these boards, or any other subject.

**Harley** · 08-14-2005, 08:19 PM

efumf,
What're you talking about, man? There are no official warnings on your record. If it'll make you feel better, I can add a warning to your record, but I'd really rather not. I don't like warning and I don't like banning. I've got no problems with you. Stop trying to find trouble where there is none. Just follow that last request I gave you in that thread (go through the proper channels) and tone down the drama.

If you have problems with those requests, you can PM me privately. We've spoken before.

Robin,
On behalf of TZ's owners, I'd just like to say, thanks. That was a cool thing you did.

**James** · 08-15-2005, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Fone Bone

I was so upset because on Mr. McDuffie's site he implied that the mods were responsible and that made me see red.

I just think we should clarify, that while the mods are responsible to make sure the comments are reflective of our own mandate (specifically to be respectful to ALL members and guests), one cannot ignore the fact it is in the end members who make comments. Reading Mr McDuffies comments at his site, I believe he was aware of this balance and that his comments was made collectively at members and staff. It's not worth pointing fingers at one side without looking at the issues of the other.

I can bet you all the DCAF moderators look back at that day and wish we had caught that thread and seen the subtexts which were going on in the link posted. Not just for Mr McDuffie's grievances, but because it caused such a painful mess we'd have loved avoided. Furthermore we don't like thinking we've failed to catch everything. Heck, we try to catch everything let me promise you, and it's BEYOND infuriating when one thread isn't caught. The gift of hindsight makes it all the worse. The mods who commented in the thread didn't read the subtexts that others did. You can bet they wish they did - the curse of hindsight. Why would the wish they'd caught the problem?

Because they want to keep people happy
Because they want to do a good job
Because they care as much as the members do.

I'm not berating you here FB, don't worry. I'm just picking on the point you made. Rather, there is an issue I would like to slay: The issue of "them" Vs "us".
There is no "them" vs "us". We are all cartoon fans. Fans who post in the anime forum, fans who post in the Disney forum. Fans who post as members. Fans who post as mods.

We are all of the same intent; we want a community to talk about cartoons. We want one where we can do so free of disrespect. We want one we feel comfortable in. That's what we all want here, carte blanche. Those who don't leave - be it of their own free will or because they break that essential rule about being respectful. There is no conspiracies here. We just all work towards that common goal.

As a member FB, you were upset over the McDuffie incident. Yeah, so were "we" - the "them"

. It was messy, embarassing and resulted in a mass of negative feelings from all quarters. People were angry. People were hurt. We ALL did our best to sort things out in whatever way our role allowed - be us member or staff.

So that's the bottom line. There is a divide between member and staff. No point hiding that. That's the nature of a community where there are workers and there are those who benefit from the work. We work for you to make a better place for all of us. There is no alternative motives than that. As I've said before, we are as people no different to the members here; just people who take cartoons WAAAY too seriously.

That's Toon Zone - members and staff alike. It's easy for one side to demonize the other - intentionally or not - when in fact, we are both cut from the same side of the same coin. Always best to remember that, we're all cartoon geeks alike.

Peace. Nice comments Robin.

**Ajax** · 08-16-2005, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by efumf

I know I'll never bring up TZ profitting from piracy again on these boards, or any other subject.

Toon Zone profitting from piracy is not criticism from a concerned animation fan, its an accusation from a member with no respect for this site. Some of the things you said were out of line and the rest was just you finger pointing. And like I said, this is IMO. I was just responding to what Robin was saying, who also thought your statment was ridiculous.

When a user is too worried to post his thoughts on anything for fear of the royal banstick that is dangerously close to his behind, you can presume the moderators are a tad too sensitive on these boards.

Aren't you being a little too sensitive here. Hey if your scared of the mods thats your fault and no one elses, stop trying to make yourself look like a victim.

**Fone Bone** · 08-16-2005, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by SJJ

I just think we should clarify, that while the mods are responsible to make sure the comments are reflective of our own mandate (specifically to be respectful to ALL members and guests), one cannot ignore the fact it is in the end members who make comments. Reading Mr McDuffies comments at his site, I believe he was aware of this balance and that his comments was made collectively at members and staff. It's not worth pointing fingers at one side without looking at the issues of the other.

I can bet you all the DCAF moderators look back at that day and wish we had caught that thread and seen the subtexts which were going on in the link posted. Not just for Mr McDuffie's grievances, but because it caused such a painful mess we'd have loved avoided. Furthermore we don't like thinking we've failed to catch everything. Heck, we try to catch everything let me promise you, and it's BEYOND infuriating when one thread isn't caught. The gift of hindsight makes it all the worse. The mods who commented in the thread didn't read the subtexts that others did. You can bet they wish they did - the curse of hindsight. Why would the wish they'd caught the problem?

Because they want to keep people happy
Because they want to do a good job
Because they care as much as the members do.

I'm not berating you here FB, don't worry. I'm just picking on the point you made. Rather, there is an issue I would like to slay: The issue of "them" Vs "us".
There is no "them" vs "us". We are all cartoon fans. Fans who post in the anime forum, fans who post in the Disney forum. Fans who post as members. Fans who post as mods.

We are all of the same intent; we want a community to talk about cartoons. We want one where we can do so free of disrespect. We want one we feel comfortable in. That's what we all want here, carte blanche. Those who don't leave - be it of their own free will or because they break that essential rule about being respectful. There is no conspiracies here. We just all work towards that common goal.

As a member FB, you were upset over the McDuffie incident. Yeah, so were "we" - the "them"

. It was messy, embarassing and resulted in a mass of negative feelings from all quarters. People were angry. People were hurt. We ALL did our best to sort things out in whatever way our role allowed - be us member or staff.

So that's the bottom line. There is a divide between member and staff. No point hiding that. That's the nature of a community where there are workers and there are those who benefit from the work. We work for you to make a better place for all of us. There is no alternative motives than that. As I've said before, we are as people no different to the members here; just people who take cartoons WAAAY too seriously.

That's Toon Zone - members and staff alike. It's easy for one side to demonize the other - intentionally or not - when in fact, we are both cut from the same side of the same coin. Always best to remember that, we're all cartoon geeks alike.

Peace. Nice comments Robin.

The situation was very confusing for me and I was mad. I probably should have found a better way to address it but other members were leaving Toon Zone and I was as mad about that as I was about Mr. McDuffie. I hope we all can be friends again. I like Stu and Spider-Man very much and I hope they can eventually forgive me. I don't like people being mad at me, especially if I respect them so much.

**BrickTamland** · 08-17-2005, 12:07 AM

I don't see why you guys are upset, I just joined this site, I did because I thought it seemed like a great place

Robin · 09-13-2005, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by BrickTamland

I don't see why you guys are upset, I just joined this site, I did because I thought it seemed like a great place

It is a great place, and that's why I find so many of the attacks against this site so ridiculous. I find it hilarious how some people call this place a corporation, and just a shill for the networks (is this what they call volunteer work nowadays?). But It's good to know people understand that this is a site to have fun with. I'm sure there are many stressful times here, whether it's a users giving mods a hard time or some bad news about a favorite cartoon, but we've come here to have fun and share our mutal interest in animation.

When one starts taking all of this too seriously, that's when you have to start re-evaluating why exactly you watch cartoons and what you waste your time with.

I don't mean to dig up a fairly old post, but I just wanted to add any final thoughts on it before I laid this topic to rest. I enjoy this site and I hope it stays around for quite some time. It has a great variety of boards and sites, with only a few small holes that could use filling, and the people here are generally well educated and fun. I'm not saying this site is perfect, but it's a great place to hang up my cape for a bit.