"Planet of the Apes" (2001) Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Clown Prince]

Rule the planet.

"Get your stinking hands off me, you damn dirty human!" - Attar

Release Date: July 21, 2001
Studio: 20th Century Fox
Director: Tim Burton
Starring: Mark Wahlberg, Tim Roth, Helena Boham Carter, Michael Clarke Duncan, Paul Giamatti, Estella Warren

Plot Summary: n remaking this classic sci-fi horror film, director Tim Burton takes on a whopping challenge and succeeds. Astronaut Leo Davidson (Wahlberg) is part of a space station crew that, in the year 2029, is conducting experiments in training genetically engineered chimps to perform complex away missions. When Leo's chimp disappears into a worm hole, Leo unadvisedly goes after him, ending up in a parallel world in which the monkeys are the keepers and humans are traded and caged like animals. It's a horrifying place, and the whole atmosphere, colored by Burton's direction and Rick Baker's incredible special effects makeup, is charged with terror. Leo becomes a heroic figure in the eyes of his defeated human brethren, and he puts his trust--and his hope for escape--in Ari (Carter), a forward-thinking ape who believes in human rights. But Leo has formidable opponents in Thade (Roth) and Attar (Duncan), two power-hungry, testosterone-charged apes who wish to rid the planet of humans altogether.

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Comments?

What did everyone think of it? Definitely better than last week's JP3! I went into this thing with mixed hype. After JP3, I was not gonna walk out of a movie for a second time in a week disapointed because of the hype. Loved the fact that it was about 2 hours, had an interesting story, and was one of the few movies this summer that I had fun at. The make-up was just wonderful, a little bit of eye candy I think. The way the actors in the ape suits moved and body language was just really cool to see. If anyone saw the Fox special on Thursday, it said they all had to learn how to move like apes. Great addition to this movie I think.

Oh yeah, that shock surprise ending was pretty good too! A little confusing but very good. Just like the original, this one went out with a bang. I knew from the moment that Mark Wahlberg walked into the Lincoln Memorial we were gonna see an ape face, but who's was a surprise. I asked my girlfriend if she thought it would be cheesey if say Wahlberg crashed in New York near the Statue of Liberty, he gets out of his ship and sees the face of Thade on the statue. Not his face on the woman body, but a statue resembling the original statue of liberty, but with Thade's face. She said no and thought it was cool, and I thought that would have been better. But the Lincoln Memorial was a nice touch. Neat to see the apes in cop uniforms driving fancy cop cars. The Washington Monument behind them was a cool background site to see too. I think General Thade is one of the better villians we have seen on screen in a while. Anyone aggree?

There's no doubt in my mind that this one will be a hit at the box office, but should this movie have a sequel? I would love to know what happend and why things went the way they did. Success at the box office always means sequels, and I think we'll see a sequel within the next 2 or 3 years.

The Clown Prince (self proclaimed movie guy)

[The Clown Prince]

Was surprised to see that Charlton Heston's cameo appearence wasn't in the begining or ending credits. Maybe he didn't want to be credited?

The Clown Prince

[James Harvey]

Heston's cameo was uncredited, as he wanted it. I think the villian was great. I just loved his "kill them all" line. So heartless and such a cruel bastard. I predict a $57 mill opening, with JP3 grossing a solid $30 mill.

[The Clown Prince]

I think POTA WILL set a record this weekend, but I can't honestly predict a number. I think it will be more than $57 million though. As for JP3, I think $30 million is a little too much money for it to make this weekend. Word of mouth and bad reviews will stop this one from doing as well as it's predecessors. Quite frankly, I hope this will wake Universal up to not make such a sh**ty movie next time around!

The Clown Prince

[joker]

i just saw it and i thought it was great. i think mr. burton did a great job at recreating the movie from ground zero. i didnt notice mr nra. where did he appear?

[DR. BELCH]

You know, I've been pretty much soured on this remake from the get-go from the previews. The chimpanzees look too human--one in particular resembles Rosie Perez--and one of the apes spouts that lame "Can't we all just get along?" that wasn't funny when Rodney King said it almost ten years ago (one of the myriad reasons I think the LAPD should have killed him when they had the chance, IMO).
Wasn't the original Planet of the Apes already everywhere thirty years ago? That and Star Wars have outdone even Pokemon movie, TV show, and merchandise-wise....

[James Harvey]

With this movie, you'll eiother like it or hate it. I like it...alot. This was such a great movie up until the final 2 minutes were it just got weird. The twist at the end was cool, but also weird and sort of unexplainable. My and my friends spent a good half hour figuring out why it ended like that. Why Thames was at the Memorial? Was he in the same time lione. Is this an alternate realm? Did he just really screw up his own world.

ut I really liked this movie. Helen Bonham Carter was simply astounding, as was Tim Roth was was the biggest bad ass of the summer, no doubt. Michael Duncan Clarke was great, as was the hilarious Paul Gaulietti (Anyone want Aspirin?). Elfman's score boomed throughout the threatre. There was music there that I could just hear in any Batman movie. The techno twist on the music also worked especially well.

Wahlberg did a good job, not great, as the hero. While the true star was Roth, Wahlberg served well as the hero of the pic. I loved Heston's cameo as Roth's father. His "dirty humans" line was a nice homage to the line he made popular over 30 years ago. Clarke also got to shout "Those damn dirty humans" which I thought was scary and sorta funny. Burton did a great job on this movie. I think this is THE summer movie. Forget Dinosaurs....the Apes rule with an iron fist. I may have tro go buy the Planet of the Apes Box Set now...

Rating: 5/5

[The Clown Prince]

Mr. NRA Charlton Heston was the sick, old, dying ape General Thade's father. If you noticed before he died, he said "Damn them, damn them all to hell!" He was talking about the humans.
I noticed that he wasn't credited at the begining of the movie or at the end and DG pointed out to me that he wasn't because he chose it to be that way. Why? I don't know. Do you know DG?

The Clown Prince

[The Clown Prince]

I agree while the ending was great, it was confusing. Though you know Burton did that on purpose. Either to pay homage to the surprise ending that the original POTA had or to leave open to a sequel. I think it's both. But anyway, over at the POTA message boards on IGN, there is a HUGE discussion about the ending. Everyone has a theory, but the one that caught my attention is the one that I am posting here. It's simple enough and is not confusing like a lot of people's. Most everyone's theory has to do with a mirror alternate universe. Kinda dumb, but this here I really liked....

"If it was earth all along, in the distant past, then that would explain why the apes have horses. I don't think they kept horses on the mother ship.
So....

The ship recieves message. It is really thier own message from the past, but they think its Leo. The ship travels back in time and creates an ape civ instead of a man civ. But then Leo shows up and stops war, reunites the 2 civs. Leo Leaves. Thade escapes, or is let out. Thade starts a movement to retrun apes to supremacy. Thade succeeds. Man is wiped out. Apes continue to thrive and build thier CIV based on historical records Thade found in the ship's computer (while imprisoned). Thade dies a hero. Second moon explodes because it is unstable (or some asteroid hits it). Apes build a monument to Thade like the one in history records. Leo returns, to find apes have coppied the human civ. Loe is arrested. Leo is in sequel.

All this is based on other peoples unfinished thoughts. I'm not sure this is what realy happened. But it does seem logical in it's own way."

The only problem I have with this is the that the apes would copy and build human monuments from the records in the ship computer. Another poster at the boards had this to say about the problems within the story. He does have a good point though...

"The filmmakers (I'm not sure who to blame, here) took what would have been--right up until the last few minutes--a great neo-classic science fiction film, burnt it all to the ground, then pissed on the ashes. And for what? Sequels? A big "twist" ending? Crap.

MINOR FAULTS:
* Where did the horses come from? Not the Oberon.
* How do the apes know about monkeys? There were no monkeys on the planet, or on the Oberon.
* Why would an orangutan know anything at all about aspirin?

MAJOR FAULTS:
* The filmmakers never establish rules for the bahavior of the electromagnetic storm. Nothing ever happens the same way twice.
* After he lifts off the ape planet, why would the filmmakers make a point of specifically showing Davidson's chronometer rolling backwards?
* Where was the black hole, exactly? I never got the impression that the Oberon was anywhere near Earth, yet the storm dumps Davidson back in our solar system.
* Why 21st century Earth?
* Why modern-day Washington, D.C.?
* Why apes in regular human clothes?
* And, finally and most egregiously, why, why, WHY was there a monument to Thade on Earth?! Thade was from the ape planet!

Bleh. Crap. Utter crap. Someone really f'ed up this film."

I don't agree with the above line here.... this was not utter crap and was not f'ed up. It was a good movie that makes you think, and I really love that!

That's something to think about. Whether or not all or if most of this stuff will be answered in a sequel remains to be seen.

The Clown Prince

[James Harvey]

Heston's cameo was cool. He looked awesome in the get up. Sometimes when actors get an uncredited cameo, it's becuase they're not a member of the Screen Actors Guild, or they do the cameo out of the kindness of their heart and don't get paid for it. I don't know the reason for Heston, but I will try and find out.

[Movie06]

First of all, sorry for the talkback. Didn't know there was already one.

[GregX]

Crap in a hat.

I'll never forget the day I walked out of it with two friends. They were hesitantly saying "That was... pretty... good. I think." I was the only honest enough to say "That SUCKED!"

Another classic gets raped.

[Movie06]

I actually liked the remake and I still do. I thought it was cool on how it expanded on the Ape society unlike the sequels. Ceasar completely scrwed up the timeline. Due to the last sequel, it made the original pointless.

Now for the remake, I like it just as much as the original. Ok, so Tim Burton was probably the wrong guy to hire to direct but it's still good to me.

Other things I like are the make up effects and the music.

The make-up is one the shining points of the remake. The apes actually look like apes. I always thought the make up effects in the origina were a bit silly even when i was kid (11 years old). Ok, make up effects in the 60's wasn't as fancy as it is today but still.

The music is hands down one of the best things about the film. Elfman and Oakenfold are musical genuises.

And what I also like about it is the ending. Confusing and cliffhanging yes but it's pretty cool. Especially since it was more like the book's original ending.

[Hanshotfirst113]

Crap in a hat.

I'll never forget the day I walked out of it with two friends. They were hesitantly saying "That was... pretty... good. I think." I was the only honest enough to say "That SUCKED!"

Another classic gets raped.

I usually like Burton very much, so I must ask what the heck he and Zanuck were thinking. The remake makes pretty much no sense any which way, and outside of Rick Baker's dazzling makeup, there's nothing memorable whatsoever about it. Plus, this is a Tim Burton movie? Where's the Gothic atmosphere, his delightful subversiveness, his sociological underpinnings and questions about outsiders, the fascinating world for a quirky character to explore? This could've been made by just about any Hollywood gun-for-hire action director like...well, I won't name names . And...the point of this was...what? The original was such a great film, why was this necessary? And what in the HELL happened at the end?

I don't think that the film was quite as bad as some say, admittedly. But I think that it's rather a missed opportunity. What exactly was the point of this? The film ultimately has little to say about anything, compared to the much deeper original film. It's also, quite frankly, for an action film, just not that exciting. It's kind of...dull. It's as good-looking as you would expect given the budget, with absolutely gorgeous production design from Rick Heinrichs and rich, deeply textured cinematography from Philippe Rousselot, all of ILM's visual effects are great, and Baker's makeup is breathtaking, but I just didn't find myself much stirred by the film. The was nothing here that I found all that interesting. All of the ideas that the film leaves unexplored like the whole hierarchy of the apes society and the obvious allegorical implications seem rather a missed opportunity. There was nothing to top the original shocker ending, and there was so much potential here that I don't know what the heck happened. It appears that 100 million dollars can't buy a decent screenplay.

I actually liked the remake and I still do. I thought it was cool on how it expanded on the Ape society unlike the sequels.

Just barely. That was one of most fascinating concepts in the movie, but we don't find out that much about it.

Other things I like are the make up effects and the music.

The make-up is one the shining points of the remake. The apes actually look like apes. I always thought the make up effects in the original were a bit silly even when i was kid (11 years old). Ok, make up effects in the 60's wasn't as fancy as it is today but still.

Oh, aesthetically, the remake is magnificent, no doubt.

[Movie06]

And what in the HELL happened at the end?

Theere was supposed to be an explanation in the sequel but due to the bad response, that never happened and for the record, the ending is based on the ending of the original novel. Actually, that's what I also like about the remake. It used the book's ending. I actually read the novel to be honest.

Just barely. That was one of most fascinating concepts in the movie, but we don't find out that much about it.

Well despite that it was interesting. I mean humans as pets for the apes. How surreal can it get? I love it. And what's also interesting is that while the apes have the ability to walk upright and speak intelligently, they still have their characteristics of a primitive ape. Like the screeching, walking and even running on all fours, etc.

Oh, aesthetically, the remake is magnificent, no doubt.

Yeah but I still like after all these years. Actually, I haven't seen it in years until I saw last saturday.

Also, has anyone thought it was funny that near the end, the other spaceship revealed to be the chimpanzee and it turns out he's the monkey god Seimos? Oh, and the Seimos thing is another thing I liked about the remake.

[BonyT]

I usually like Burton very much, so I must ask what the heck he and Zanuck were thinking.

I usually don't like Burton's films very much ... and this one's no exception.

The remake makes pretty much no sense any which way ... And what in the HELL happened at the end?

Indeed. Especially that nonsensical ending, which, whatever the idea behind it, honestly just came off like a pathetic attempt to "re-imagine" one of the classic movie final twists ever -- except with not a whit of actual imagination behind Burton's version. I know you're saying it was closer to the novel ending, Movie06; but that scene looks and feels like it was born as the first knee-jerk suggestion that someone blurted out in the opening moments of a writers' brainstorming session, and then nary a further thought was invested in the idea until it was filmed. Mind sharing a bit about what the logic to the ending was?

... and outside of Rick Baker's dazzling makeup, there's nothing memorable whatsoever about it.

The makeup was impressive.

[Movie06]

I know you're saying it was closer to the novel ending, Movie06; but that scene looks and feels like it was born as the first knee-jerk suggestion that someone blurted out in the opening moments of a writers' brainstorming session, and then nary a further thought was invested in the idea until it was filmed. Mind sharing a bit about what the logic to the ending was?

Well, according to the ending of the novel, Ulysse landed on Earth, over 700 years after he had originally left it, and lands outside the city of Paris. However, once outside the ship, he discovers that Earth is now ruled by sentient apes just like the planet from which he has just fled (this is where his story on paper ends). He immediately blasted his ship off into space once more, writes his story, places it in a bottle, and launches it into space for someone to find.

Now the book concludes by returning to the couple who had found the bottle in the beginning of the novel. They scoff at the unlikelihood of humans having been advanced enough to build spaceships, and conclude that the story must be someone's idea of a joke; the couple, it is revealed, are apes themselves.

[Hanshotfirst113]

I usually don't like Burton's films very much ... and this one's no exception.

I'm usually a big Burton fan. Sleepy Hollow, Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands, Ed Wood, and I've been told Sweeney Todd and Big Fish are all the work of a master stylist, with his blend of Fellini, Bava, and Hammer as a gorgeously Gothic visual pallet for character studies (ES and EW) and explorations of sociological themes (SH's battle of religion and science, Beetlejuice's questions about the afterlife and gleeful satire of commercialism, ES's evocation of the Brother's Grimm-style story of an outside with powerful morals, EW's great story of a man who was rich in character and talent with Burton's delightful love of the movies themselves). Even Burton's Batman films, while shallow, are gorgeous to look at, and full of fun things. They're like cinematic circuses, full of wild cleverness. Planet of the Apes is...well, excuse my language, but it's boring as hell. There's pretty much nothing of interest here, and it could have just as easily been another shallow action movie production directed by Simon West or Jan DeBont. There's none of the joy or gleeful cleverness that's prevalent in so much of Burton's work. It's worse than shallow. It's dull.

Indeed. Especially that nonsensical ending, which, whatever the idea behind it, honestly just came off like a pathetic attempt to "re-imagine" one of the classic movie final twists ever -- except with not a whit of actual imagination behind Burton's version.

It's gleefully subversive, but it makes no logical sense! It's almost like they made up a surprise ending and then tacked it onto the end of the film, which while interesting by itself, is idiotic in context.

The makeup was impressive.

Oh, the makeup was spectacular, and Heinrichs' production design was decent (though in a Burton movie, that's par for the course), but again, unimaginative. This is a sci-fi film! At least make some cool things to look at! Mario Bava or the crew of Farscape were more creative than this with literally about 100th of the budget. Outside of a few interesting touches (the vines being my favorite), the planet itself had no character of its own, which for a Burton film, is very usual. Hell, his vision of Gotham City was a more interesting "character" than his version of Batman! Everything looks great in Planet of the Apes, but there's no sense of fun. At least Michael Bay blows some stuff up periodically when I get bored.

On a side note, I remember watching Schaffner's film a while back, and while some of Heston's hamming is over-the-top, it's on the whole aged very well. The makeup is generally pretty good, and while it may not have the multimillion dollar look and pretty colors of Burton's film, it has something better: ideas. It has a brain. The script is as smart an allegory as they come, no surprise coming from Rod Serling, the master of "what if," and Wilson and Boulle, together again after Bridge on the River Kwai, giving the film an astonishing amount of gravity. I actually care about the characters. The film handles lots of interesting issues (slavery, man's inhumanity, brutality, evolution, social satire and commentary), and that final shot doesn't need CGI. It's still as chilling as they come, and it's more relevant today, not less. So many of the genre films of the period are now camp to laugh at. Planet of the Apes is not. It's a classic case of the Hollywood "high concept:" everything's pretty, but it doesn't mean anything. Schaffner's film may not have state of the art effects, but it has something to say. Given the choice, I'll take the Heston vehicle over Burton's film any day of the week.

[Movie06]

No offense but to me, the make-up in the original film was and probably still is a bit silly, okay, way silly.

[GregX]

No offense but to me, the make-up in the original film was and probably still is a bit silly, okay, way silly.

Silly make-up or not, the original is a much better movie.