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  1. #61
    defunctzombie's Avatar
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    Like This Thread!

    If anyone's interested, the movie is up now on itunes for sale.

    Took me a while to download due to my internet connection, but I finally got to see it. I still don't get why my one friend thought it's terrible, I thought it was awesome. I really liked the line about how "this is what you would have done" near the end, it fits with the parallel timeline. Spock's KHAAAAN! was a little cheesy, though.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by defunctzombie View Post
    Spock's KHAAAAN! was a little cheesy, though.
    So was the original, though you really can't compare them. This lacked that critical ingredient of SHATNER..

  3. #63
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    Any cheesiness was rendered moot in the original because of ShatnerxMontalban. Quinto is awesome but he is not that awesome.
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  4. #64
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    The original was Star Trek's Empire Strikes Back. The villain killed alot and ultimately within the confines of the single film sans sequels, won.

    This one was cool, but not great. It really felt poorly written, like good fan fiction. This should have been The Dark Knight of Star Trek films, but not so much. I totally got some things they did, but the execution was kinda off.

  5. #65
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    Empire exists in flux though, Wrath of Khan has a complete narrative with a beginning and a middle and and an ending. If the other sequels had never come out, the film is emotionally, narratively and thematically 100% satisfying.
    Not it will most likely do any good, but I encourage any interested parties to sign this petition.
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  6. #66
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    Well, that's what makes the Star Wars trilogy the greatest trilogy, because they are seamlessly one story.

    All I meant was that Wrath of Khan was influenced by Empire, and again, I wish Into Darkness had been influenced by The Dark Knight.

  7. #67
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    I'd put this in the thread about the release of the Blu-Ray, but a quick search doesn't show one yet. In any case, not good news. Hopefully it's just stupidity on the part of Paramount and not a sign that they're just abandoning caring about physical media completely, but I suspect so. And I wholeheartedly agree with him about Paramount being so uncaring about the much-needed director's cuts.
    Not it will most likely do any good, but I encourage any interested parties to sign this petition.
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  8. #68
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    I didn't like it as much as the first film, but it was still a lot of fun.

    I still think it was a bit too early to bring out Khan and I didn't like when the third act turning into a Wrath of Khan tribute. I think it was actually more interesting when they had to team up with Khan instead of fight him. It was a nice turn that separated it from the original.

    Overall though, I had a good time.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanshotfirst113 View Post
    I'd put this in the thread about the release of the Blu-Ray, but a quick search doesn't show one yet. In any case, not good news. Hopefully it's just stupidity on the part of Paramount and not a sign that they're just abandoning caring about physical media completely, but I suspect so. And I wholeheartedly agree with him about Paramount being so uncaring about the much-needed director's cuts.
    I've been fuming for a while, since whenever they revealed the features that would be on disc and I saw no mention of a commentary track. I'd been hoping it was some kind of mistake, but as you've pointed out, we now know there are a bunch of features not on the disc that are being divvied up as retailer exclusives. Yeah, I'm upset.

    Cancelled my pre-order, which had been through Best Buy. Hope enough people do that, such that Paramount gets the message. I'm tempted to get the iTunes version to get that commentary track, but I don't want to reward what they're doing. I'll wait and hope we eventually see a proper BD release that has all the special features.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAngel View Post
    I've been fuming for a while, since whenever they revealed the features that would be on disc and I saw no mention of a commentary track. I'd been hoping it was some kind of mistake, but as you've pointed out, we now know there are a bunch of features not on the disc that are being divvied up as retailer exclusives. Yeah, I'm upset.
    Not upset enough, I assure you. Not only is the commentary being held off for the iTunes version, but it isn't just a commentary: it's a whole separate encode of the movie! Much like Warner's Blu-Ray's Maximum Movie Mode, it has a number of picture-in-picture extras and behind-the-scenes bits, and it runs significantly long than the movie itself. That, however, isn't the best part. No, the best part is that Abrams, God bless him, is one of the last holdouts for shooting on 35mm film. As such, he wouldn't shoot the film digitally, so the IMAX sequences were shot with IMAX cameras and IMAX cameras use a different ratio. This is all very well, it's not the first or the last film to do that, except that this means that as the scenes are cut, the ratios will shift, and scope version will be cropped. And it doesn't look there's a version that has the shifting ratios, and even if there is, I'm pretty sure none of them are the 3-D version. Apparently, Bad Robot delivered some special features pretty late, so they aren't entirely blameless here.

    Cancelled my pre-order, which had been through Best Buy. Hope enough people do that, such that Paramount gets the message. I'm tempted to get the iTunes version to get that commentary track, but I don't want to reward what they're doing. I'll wait and hope we eventually see a proper BD release that has all the special features.
    This isn't the first time Paramount has partaken in this nonsense, either. The Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol Blu-Ray locked similar special features in the iTunes version as well. To be a bit more fair, most discs will come with code to activate the iTunes copy. However, as iTunes has a vice-like DRM death-grip on their consumers' throats, you can't put their material on a USB stick or something, so if you want to watch it, you're stuck in front of your computer screen. And the pièce de résistance is that isn't the first time Paramount has messed up the ratios either. When Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen came out and had sequences shot with IMAX cameras, there was in fact a version on Blu-Ray which preserved this, but it was exclusive to Wal-Mart. Like you, I'm likely giving this release a pass. I'll just Redbox it and call it a day, maybe pick up a used copy on eBay. Are most of these likely to be fluffy EPK-style extras? Maybe, maybe not, but first of all, that's not the point, and second of all, the commentary blasted well isn't. I'm hoping for another proper released down the road, but with the way other Trek and Paramount films have been treated, it isn't likely. Paramount discontinued their two-disc DVD version of Iron Man and the first Abrams Star Trek and replaced them with singles, and haven't reissued the SEs as far as I know. It looks like they've all-but abandoned physical media, especially as a collector's market, and aren't likely to partake in double-dips, which in this case is a bad thing.

    On a tangential note, Bill Hunt is 100% right about Paramount giving Trek fans the short end of the stick as far as Blu-Ray as is concerned, especially regarding the director's cuts of I, II, and VI. With TMP, it's a bit more understandable since the new FX sequences were only created in an SD version, but I've never understood what the problem was as regarded II and VI, did any of the new sequences has FX footage? I can't imagine reintegrating those scenes would cost that much time or money. But I could be entirely wrong. Maybe for the 50th anniversary in 2016? Hopefully sooner.
    Not it will most likely do any good, but I encourage any interested parties to sign this petition.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanshotfirst113 View Post

    On a tangential note, Bill Hunt is 100% right about Paramount giving Trek fans the short end of the stick as far as Blu-Ray as is concerned, especially regarding the director's cuts of I, II, and VI. With TMP, it's a bit more understandable since the new FX sequences were only created in an SD version, but I've never understood what the problem was as regarded II and VI, did any of the new sequences has FX footage? I can't imagine reintegrating those scenes would cost that much time or money. But I could be entirely wrong. Maybe for the 50th anniversary in 2016? Hopefully sooner.
    Yet they seem to spend a fortune converting TOS and NG into HD, redoing ALL the special effects.
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  12. #72
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    Yeah, the itunes file has some extras and the commentary included in the price. Kind of angers me though, as I completely forgot that Paramount has proper digital copies and I already paid for the download....

    Oh well, at least I paid for the disc pre-order with credit card reward points.
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  13. #73
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    Sequels are a tricky business, especially those in long-running franchises. Whatever opinions long-time Trek fans held about J.J. Abrams 2009 reboot of the venerable sci-fi franchise (Which I will always call Star Trek Zero.), there isn't any denying that it commercially revitalized a franchise Rick Berman had all but run into the ground. With the sequel, Abrams, Orci, and Kirkman have brought Lost co-creator Damon Lindelof with them and aim higher in their attempt to better the first. How do they fare? Pretty well, all things told. All of the criticisms of the first films still stand. The lens flares are still irritating, it still feels more like Star Wars in drag than Star Trek, the Enterprise still looks like an intergalactic Apple Store, the movie doesn’t have many ideas in its shiny head, the film still can't help but feel like a glorified TV pilot in places, and it still can't quite strike the balance of borrowing too heavily from the past vs. reinvention. But all of the pros are still here as well-a terrific new cast, fast and fun plot twists, dialogue, and action, and a deep sense of humanity. And this time it brings a slightly darker underpinning of social commentary along with it and more importantly, a proper antagonist. The filmmakers have heard all too clearly the criticisms of the first film’s Nero, a clichéd Bond pantomime at least a few decades out of date. They aim to give the crew a proper challenge this time, and they’ve resurrected the greatest villain in all of Star Trek to do it.

    Star Trek: Into Darkness open with Kirk being stripped of his command after violating Starfleet’s Prime Directive to rescue Spock. Reassigned to Admiral Pike’s crew and investigating an attack on a Starfleet outpost, Pike is brutally murdered by John Harrison, a fugitive Section 31 Starfleet officer who hides out on Kronos, the Klingon homeworld to avoid Starfleet. Admiral Marcus preps a decidedly un-Roddenberry-like military operation for Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise to Kronos for vengeance. But as Kirk’s conscience gets the better of him, he captures Harrison instead, and a series of dark secrets slowly come to the surface revealing to the Enterprise crew that Starfleet itself may have a darker agenda than they could have guessed and they’re merely pawns in a much larger game. But as Harrison’s true identity comes to light and a desperate Spock contacts his Prime Universe counterpart, they discover that they while they may be able to win the battle, the price may be more than anyone on the ship could have ever imagined…

    Star Trek: Into Darkness' real ace in the hole comes in the form of Benedict Cumberbatch, TV’s Sherlock, as-and all of the flashy marketing aside, there probably aren’t many Trek fans who couldn’t have guessed-none other than Khan. Superbly intelligent and appropriately evil, with a positively feral screen presence, he’s more than a match for the Enterprise crew. But what really gives the film an edge are the dark themes about Marcus violations of Starfleet regulations in an attempt to create an enemy to service his own needs and those of his power-hungry plans. Like Shane Black’s Iron Man 3, the film subtly hints that a terrorist is in the eye of the beholder and that the institutions supposedly designed to protect us often have altogether darker agendas, creating their own enemies for their own purposes. Into Darkness first action builds mystery and its second plays its hand in interesting ways. The problem comes with the third act. But we’ll get to that in a minute.

    Abrams finally place his name in the film’s final reel as possessory credits, proclaiming for the first time the movie as “A J.J. Abrams” film. But the movie itself still feels a bit second-hand. Abrams’ roving camera almost never stands still, bombarding the audience with a near nonstop stream of special effects, action sequences, and rat-a-tat-tat dialogue which takes a cue from the many 90s and 2000s TV soaps and sci-fi programs where he made his name. Like Joss Whedon and his ilk from the days of Buffy, the film bombards the audience with dialogue and soap opera character beats, almost to the point of exhaustion. Abrams is a more confident director after his experience, but the film rushes by at such a pace, full of special effects and cotton candy colours courtesy of ace DP Dan Mindel, that you can’t help but wonder if he’s scared the audience will get bored if he slows down, all too indicative of his TV roots. The film’s best moments are quieter, more character-driven one where the editors aren’t quite so cut-happy-the intellectual sparring between Kirk and Khan as an imprisoned Khan reveals to be in more control of the situation than Kirk though (Has the villain in the glass cage who “wanted to be captured all along” a new cliché or something? It’s showing up everywhere: here, The Dark Knight, Skyfall, The Avengers.). Spock and Khan’s back-and-forth mind chess matches are similarly appealing (“Vulcans do not lie.”). And Bruce Greenwood’s appropriately regal Pike’s bar sequence with Kirk makes the sheer-force-of-will superhuman character pretty human, however briefly.

    But Abrams can’t help but feel like the ultimate post-modern DJ, the film comprised of too many bits of other films to feel entirely like his own. The whole movie’s colourful space opera already feels more like Star Wars than Star Trek, and notwithstanding the many piece of Wrath of Khan it steals wholesale-again, we’ll get to it-the are too many things which feel all too familiar. The atmosphere tumble recalls Joss Whedon’s ever-underrated space opera Serenity, the conference room seems borrowed from The Godfather III, the race through the futuristic city looks like an outtake form the opening of Attack of the Clones, many of the other space battle have a decidedly prequel trilogy feeling, and the resurrected Tribble seems to have wandered in from E.T. The opening chase recalls Raiders of the Lost Ark, the debris field and the sideways ship feel like leftovers from The Empire Strikes Back, the suits look like props left over from TRON, the sabotage of the Vengeance feels like it’s borrowed from The Search for Spock, and so forth. Still, there are a handful of particularly cool shots- Khan’s arrival on Kronos, a tracking shot from the outside of the ship to the bridge.

    But the most egregious of these “homages” comes from appropriating the franchise most iconic death scene from The Wrath of Khan. 30 years on, I remains the franchise undisputed masterpiece, and the one which best stand the test of time, Meyer’s classy direction, and literate, witty, intelligent screenplay standing up long after countless similar genre movies have been forgotten. By appropriating the ending for Into Darkness, the filmmakers could at best be accused of showing a lack of imagination, but the truth is that abstracted from the thematically coherent story of The Wrath of Khan, the death sequence simply doesn’t work as well as they hope. Orci coherently argues that whereas in Wrath of Khan, it served as the punctuation mark for the characters’ relationship and their unspoken friendship and love, whereas here, it serves as the beginning of their long friendship, finally solidified after their attempts to communicate throughout the film. But in Wrath of Khan, it also served as the culmination of both the series itself (Even if you were unfamiliar with the show, Shatner and Nimoy sell the long friendship and the pain of Spock’s death.), and more importantly, the film’s themes of aging, death and rebirth. Had the film had the guts to kill Kirk, it might’ve signified a bold new direction, but as it basically rushes to get everyone back into their place, the film, for all of its glossy fireworks, feels reactionary rather than like a new direction for this franchise, the self-consciously hip aesthetic of TV grafted onto a film. In the end, the movie ultimately looks backwards rather than forwards.

    Still, if it’s unoriginal, it remains a blast. Cast with fantastic actors (Karl Urban’s McCoy remains particularly hilarious), Pine and Quinto’s well-handled reimaging of the Kirk-Spock dynamic, the action sequences are sleek and kinetic, if occasionally frantic. And the various newcomers are all well-cast, a sexy if a bit stiff Alice Eve as Kirk’s future love interest, and an authoritative Peter Weller as Captain Pike 2.0, though his character eventually falls back on the paternal teacher who turns out to be a villain cliché. And of course, seeing Nimoy return to his signature role is always welcome. Likewise, the space battles are lots of fun, the production values top-notch, and Cumberbatch makes for a terrific villain and for popcorn thrills, Star Trek: Into Darkness, is pretty hard not to enjoy. And up until the slightly shaky final act, it’s a well-handled sci-fi action-picture with a nice human heart. Some Trekkers may find themselves pining for the days when science-fiction was a genre of ideas, but for PG-13 thrills, it’s pretty top-tier, and for the time being, that’ll have to do, and it does nicely.
    Last edited by Hanshotfirst1138; 01-21-2014 at 05:26 PM.
    Not it will most likely do any good, but I encourage any interested parties to sign this petition.
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  14. #74
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    Considering these guys wanted to use City On The Edge of Forever for the first film, I can pretty much tell these guys are not Trekkies. Alot of people always ask the question "why does it have to be like the original?". The very simple answer is, no it does not have to be like the original. But it should be inspired by the orginal. If it's just a cash grab, then it won't be successful. It's riding off of one thing, the name recognition, and Into Darkness definitely did that. The fact too that they are capable of creating a new vision within the confines of this universe, no problem at all, but based on what they've done so far, I can't even trust them to get right the advancements they made. They feel like they've painted themselves into a corner.

  15. #75
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    My respect for Abrams goes up a little :

    Bustle

    Interesting he also blames the studio who wanted to have a fresh start.

  16. #76
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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by the greenman View Post
    So once again Abrams admits to not being a fan:

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tazmMiuVnro
    You don't have to be a fan to make a good movie.
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  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob T. Paschal View Post
    You don't have to be a fan to make a good movie.
    Well the first film proved that. He also had alot of help with that one. Still I can't defend someone who clearly admits their own wrongdoing, unlike Grand Admiral Lucas.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by the greenman View Post
    Well the first film proved that. He also had alot of help with that one. Still I can't defend someone who clearly admits their own wrongdoing, unlike Grand Admiral Lucas.
    Not being a "Fan" of something doesn't mean anything wrong. A person can work on something, produce something entertaining, and not have much interest in it.

    In any case, any failings either movie has isn't the direction, it's the writing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatomon41 View Post
    Not being a "Fan" of something doesn't mean anything wrong. A person can work on something, produce something entertaining, and not have much interest in it.

    In any case, any failings either movie has isn't the direction, it's the writing.
    Well, first off, you guys have a certain point about not being a fan of something to make a good movie of a property. The fact is, being a fan of something is different than having a passion for something, and even that can be argued. For us fanboys/girls it is an issue about giving the ip some kinda respect. If that doesn't happen, then yeah expect problems. Critics and fans will nitpick apart to a point it really won't be able to stand.

    John Favreau was not a fan of Iron Man, but of MARVEL comics, so at least he had that. No one is saying even he did a superb job of it, I think it was a lot of luck that happened there. I say the same about Spider-Man versus Amazing Spider-Man, now Raimi was a fan of the character, and his films proved he was the perfect guy to do that ip, however he failed to make it what fanboys/girls wanted until Spider-Man 2. Amazing Spider-Man was decent enough but it worked well enough. As for the writers, it is possible for the director to save a film. There is such things called acting which has a various amounts of saving a bad script and then filming something too comes a long long way. A chef can make a good meal with seemingly bad ingredients and no one would know unless they told you.

    I do think Abrams is a little overrated as a director, mind you I haven't seen many films of his, but he got the property because the Studio wanted to "Save" Star Trek. They went with a guy who had history in television directing and adapting television propeties to screen well enough, but he had no real respect for it. He gave us the equivalent of what many CBM's were dong about ten years ago. They make a Daredevil, and Ghost Rider film and put the mythos and ip into a blender and give it to us. You can feel the film is rushed and convulted with stuff.

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