"WWE RAW" 1-18-10 Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Penguin]

Happy Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, everyone!

Last week, Randy Orton bested John Cena and Kofi Kingston (with some help from The Legacy) to win the right to face WWE Champion Sheamus at the Royal Rumble. On SmackDown this week, World Heavyweight Champion The Undertaker promised to come to RAW to answer the recent challenges by the man he defeated at WrestleMania last year, Shawn Michaels.

WWE RAW #869
Monday, January 18, 2010 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on USA Network

GRIM RESPONSE
SmackDown's World Heavyweight Champion, The Undertaker, has vowed to appear on Monday Night Raw to personally respond to Shawn Michaels' challenge to a WrestleMania rematch. What judgment will The Deadman render?

HEDER & JOHNSON HOST
Don Johnson and Jon Heder, stars of the upcoming film "When in Rome," host the next edition of Raw, live in Knoxville, Tenn. Will these two accomplished Hollywood stars do as the WWE Universe does?

[sag_2002]

The good:

+Undertaker refuses Shawn's request for a Wrestlemania rematch. Good for him. It would be nearly impossible for them to top last year's MOTY at WM25.

+The guest hosts were pretty entertaining. Don Johnson is as close to A-list as WWE has gotten since they started this gimmick, and Heder was pretty funny as a heel tonight.

+The closing segment was very well done.

The bad:

-The Diva's match was the usual crap.

The ugly:

*BIG botch by Lawler tonight, as during a highlight package prior to the Legacy/Cena-Kofi match, the King accidentally called Randy Orton "Randy Savage". Methinks he'll be getting an earful from Vince for that one.

Overall: Another average night on RAW. 3/5

[Nygma]

That was a really boring episode of Raw that exposed just how directionless the show is lately.

Is there anybody that wants to see Randy Orton vs. Sheamus? Is anybody buying this crap of Sheamus as WWE champion as anything other than a LAME DUCK champion?

The match of the night Cena/Kofi d. Legacy(**) didn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things. Yeah they get their revenge on Legacy, why should I care? Nothing interesting has developed of it. It shows the kind of depth problems this show has.

Also watching Gail bump around for wrestlers that aren't even in her league as wrestlers, while her tag partner missed a drop kick by 20 miles made the show more depressing.

[Hobbes829]

i'm not ordering the ppv but i would be interested in Orton/Sheamus.

the tag match was good and it gave kofi a boost after a few losses, plus a rub from cena. He's looking more and more like a star. Nygma, i'm not sure what you mean by depth in this context.

[Mesousa]

i'm not ordering the ppv but i would be interested in Orton/Sheamus.

And skip the Rumble match? That's like skipping Wrestlemania's main event.

[Zyzzybalubah]

Except for John Heder's humor, this was a pretty weak show. You have to give him credit, for him to play a heel on the show when mostly every celebrity host is regularly face is impressive. Another thing I enjoyed was Undertaker turning down the challenge and HBK realizing he needs to win this rumble to fulfill his destiny of possibly ending the Taker's Wrestlemania streak. What would be a funny twist is Rey Mysterio beats Undertaker (don't see that happening personally) and HBK winning the rumble. Or even HBK/Taker winning their matches but Undertaker losing his title at or before Elimination Chamber and HBK flipping out.

So having Hornswoggle at your side or being in DX seems to mean more than the WWE championship these days. With Seamus holding the title and regularly fighting a random squash match in the opening hour of each show, he has not come off as a real world champion at all. I might regret saying this later, but I really hope Orton wins the title at Royal Rumble. They still have next week to try to sell us on this match, but this week besides the attack Seamus gave Orton, nothing really stood out at all. I understand the Rumble match is a little bigger than the championship matches, but still, this is weak. I really think this kind of stuff would have been more acceptable if Seamus won the ECW championship instead. They could have played on an angle that Vince McMahon was so impressed by Seamus's quick dominance to the top, that he could be on ECW but wanted him on Raw as well. Personally, I think this streak is really going to make me and many others beg for the days of Diesel and JBL being WWE Champs.

[Hobbes829]

And skip the Rumble match? That's like skipping Wrestlemania's main event.

i'm not ordering the ppv, but i think saying i'm interested in the rumble match would be useless as that's always the case.

[hobbyfan]

What worked:

Cena/Kofi over Legacy. Kofi gets some momentum back, and Cole acts like the losses to Randy Orton didn't happen. Looked like they were finally going to start the Legacy breakup angle, but they didn't get very far.

Guest hosts: As different as night & day. Heder stumbled over some of his lines and sounded like he was coming from shooting "Napoleon Dynamite 2" or something. He was out there. Don Johnson, still looking the way he did on "Nash Bridges", was dead on. Heder & Miz being real-life buds? What a shock, eh?

Vince/HHH backstage. Hunter was spot on when he said Vince always wants to get the last word in. That explains why all of Dr. McNutty's feuds go way past their expirations (i.e Vince-HBK 4 years ago). That ego gets in the way.

Vince/UT/HBK opening segment. Undertaker said that "there are so few of us left" from 1997 (specifically himself, Vince, HBK, & HHH), and perhaps he was hinting to Vince that now would be a good time to close the books on Montreal once and for all. UT turning down HBK's challenge for a Wrestlemania sequel only fuels the anticipation that it will happen.

What I see happening: Either Shawn costs UT the World title at some point, or wins the Rumble, which would be his 1st in 14 years (Austin's the only one with 3 Rumbles). I see the former more likely than the latter.

What didn't work:

Divas tag. The tournament's been delayed for unknown reasons. If they had any sense, they'd have split the semi-finals and had 1 last night, the other next week, with the finals at the Rumble. The tag match was sloppy, especially with Eve missing a dropkick by 2 feet. The camera angle couldn't change fast enough to cover it.

Jack Swagger's over-the-top challenge. I feel sorry for Jack (sorrier for Carlito having to dress up as Napoleon Dynamite), who was ECW champ at this time last year. Who did he tick off to get this kind of treatment? Or did he try to go to bat for Mickie James and did that get him in trouble?

Orton-Masters. No way could Orton go from selling the Masterlock after a rope break to hitting an RKO to win "out of nowhere". It's not the same as going from 0 to 60 in mere seconds driving a car. Masters got royally dissed.

[ToonFaithful]

This RAW was boring, well I didn't see all of the matches especially the main event. I totally thought both of guest hosts were gonna be face but I was shocked when Jon Heder was heel. Didn't see that coming.

Randy Orton vs. Chris Masters was lame. It was short and it felt rushed. I knew Randy Orton was not gonna tap out or submit out of the Master-lock because it's all about Sheamus and Randy Orton. I knew he was gonna hit that RKO on Masters.

Am I the only one getting sick of Hornswoggle?! He is so annoying. Undertaker's segment was awesome. Now I kinda want a rematch at WM 26. Are we ever gonna see Bret Hart again? People are saying that he's coming back but I haven't heard any news. Anyways, I hope next week's RAW will be better.

[Wonderwall]

Am I the only one getting sick of Hornswoggle?! He is so annoying.

You must be new here

Are we ever gonna see Bret Hart again? People are saying that he's coming back but I haven't heard any news.

Yea he signed a contract for a few months back late last year. I would assume we'll see him again but it's hard to keep a guy who can't wrestle anymore in front of a camera every week probably up until Mania. In the weeks leading up to Mania you'll probably see him in a more prominent role.

[ToonFaithful]

You must be new here

The previous Hornswoggle storyline was with Chavo Guerrero I believe? I'm glad that's over because I thought it was a waste of time. Chavo Guerrero has talent and I don't think he should've been treated like that.

[Nygma]

i'm not ordering the ppv but i would be interested in Orton/Sheamus.

Why should a casual fan be interested in Orton/Sheamus? Not only a heel vs. heel match, but the champ has no heat at all.

the tag match was good and it gave kofi a boost after a few losses, plus a rub from cena. He's looking more and more like a star. Nygma, i'm not sure what you mean by depth in this context.

How much of a boost does Kofi get by beating two scrubs like Cody and Ted? I don't see how beating THEM would mean anything for Kofi. Also Kofi is at the point as a star where teaming with Cena doesn't mean anything regardless. It means about as much as Shawn Michaels teaming with Cena.

The depth I'm refering to is the lack of any compelling characters/storylines on a weekly basis.
-Sheamus is not over as a champion. And doing a heel vs. heel match won't do him any favors.
-Kofi has taken two steps forward only to take five steps back by getting pinned three times in a row by Orton.
-Miz is about the only compelling star on Raw these days, but he's stuck in a feud with a watered down MVP because the WWE doesn't realize they've taken away what was compelling about MVP to begin with. So his push won't go beyond the U.S. title because they won't have confidence in him.
-The divas tournament has only one competent wrestler in it.
-DX, Cena, Big Show are involved in generic "I'm gonna win the Royal Rumble" claims, but there's nothing deep beyond that. Sure Shawn has foreshadowed wanting to face Taker again but it's not a relatively new angle, and it's not like Shawn can top his WM25 match due to Undertaker's mobility.
-There's also the Hart-McMahon angle, but where do you go with it in a way where it will benefit someone in the long run?

I'm sure there's others I might of missed, but those are the major points that stuck out this week.

[Hobbes829]

so what if they're scrubs. I think both guys are talented in the ring and it wasn't some squash match. They have some hint of legitimacy stemming from their feud with DX. You say him teaming with Cena doesn't mean anything. Who got the pin? The match was meant to give Kofi momentum, the rub and the spotlight.

Kofi hung in there with orton and looked like he belonged. It's not real. No one cares if he loses. Austin lost to bret in 2 BIG matches, the one at SS 96 and WM 13 and yet he became a bigger star for it. Crack analysis as always. Stop overanalyzing wins and losses.

I like miz but he still needs to work on his delivery. I like his motives but his delivery is what subtracts points. I feel like he's performing as opposed to really feeling that way.

Sheamus is starting to get heat with the crowd. They are getting familiar with his character. A good match with Randy can help him in that respect.

HBK and taker may not be able to top the match, but i think they can match. They probably aren't going with that match anyways. Some have speculated that if hhh throws hbk out of the rumble, thus costing him an opportunity to face taker once again that will lead to tension and thus a match against hhh at WM26. That's an intreguing premise and an understandable angle.

While i don't think "i'm going to win the rumble" is particularly inspired, why does it have to be any deeper than "i want to win a match"? They are portraying prize fighters.

I think you really need to stop trying to hate things before you've seen them play out. Then talk about it.

[Nygma]

Sheamus is starting to get heat with the crowd. They are getting familiar with his character. A good match with Randy can help him in that respect.

starting to get heat? The crowd was silent during his entrance and match with Evan Bourne. Last I recall the fans aren't supposed to respect a heel.

I think you really need to stop trying to hate things before you've seen them play out. Then talk about it.

Yeah I've heard that before from other people. And the result was still the same, nothing interesting happened with the wwe.

[Hobbes829]

starting to get heat? The crowd was silent during his entrance and match with Evan Bourne. Last I recall the fans aren't supposed to respect a heel.



Yeah I've heard that before from other people. And the result was still the same, nothing interesting happened with the wwe.

But he got heat during the match and against randy. heck, randy even got cheered during the confrontation. Stop making stuff up.

Why watch? you seem to hate it.

[ToonFaithful]

But he got heat during the match and against randy. heck, randy even got cheered during the confrontation. Stop making stuff up.

Why watch? you seem to hate it.

The crowd was yelling: "Go Randy!, Go Randy!, Go Randy!" So yeah Randy is gonna have some fans at the Royal Rumble.

[The Penguin]

If there’s one thing I love, it’s Vince McMahon insulting the crowd enough that they forget to chant “What?” at him. That should have gone out with Stone Cold and I like that WWE doesn’t want to play that game with the crowd anymore. Anyway, I liked what Vince said about Bret Hart. Not because I agree, but because it fits with what Mr. McMahon would think. Good stuff.

The Undertaker brought it as a he always does and I was pleasantly surprised that he went with what I hoped for and actually told Shawn no. Michaels then stating his plan to win the Royal Rumble worked for me—that would be what I would expect. I wouldn’t want Shawn to win anyway, but definitely not now.

It’s a nitpick, but I would have liked Evan Bourne to at least get a half entrance (theme playing with him in the ring) before Sheamus came out. You do what WWE did here and Evan is on the same level as a ‘local competitor.’ Unlike a guy falsely billed as being from the town they’re in, Evan nearly beat Sheamus again, this time with Randy Orton’s indirect help.

I didn’t get Carlito dressed of as Napoleon Dynamite. It might have been funny if Carlito wasn’t wearing a wig and it was his actual hair, but it just didn’t make much sense. I liked how HBK didn’t know who Jon Heder was when DX was talking to Don Johnson, seems about right.

Jack Swagger is just having a heck of a time the last several weeks (months really). Not only did Santino refuse to mess up his Miami Vice suit to fight him, and then Mark Henry came out and threw him around.

So who was in the limo with Heder and the Bellas? Was it his ‘good friend’ The Miz or his ‘agency brother’ Big Show? I suppose it must have been.

Don Johnson and Jon Heder both did a great job. I have no idea if either knows anything about wrestling, but clearly they were both professionals and represented themselves well. It was cool seeing Don Johnson on RAW. Miami Vice was on when I was a little kid, but I loved Nash Bridges. My family watched it every week for years.

I liked Cena & Kofi teaming up to take their revenge against Rhodes & DiBiase. I like follow-ups like this. The bit of tension after the match between Cody and Ted was good this close to the Rumble. I was just baffled by King saying “Randy Savage.” I don’t know if he meant Randy Orton did a savage RKO, but it was just so bizarre.

Wow, that Divas match was a mess. I just sat in their in disbelief when Eve completely missed that dropkick, but Alicia reacted like she hit it and then they did the spot again immediately to get it right! I don’t know what their schedule is like, but virtually the entire female roster needs more training.

Sign me up for Stone Cold on Chuck! I love that show anyway and it will be great to see Austin there.

Show & Miz were a lot of fun backstage with Heder. He really got excited about his “The Flame” robe!

I liked Hunter talking to Vince about Bret Hart. His thoughts for his father-in-law was a good way to keep things moving.

Sheamus was happy to return the favor from earlier in the night when Orton was facing Chris Masters. Just like Sheamus though, Orton still managed to win. Unless this match with Orton makes Sheamus, I think he’ll be done as Champ at the Rumble.

Next week should be great with James Roday and Dulé Hill from Psych. They are great on that show and I suspect that will transfer to the live stage of RAW.

The main event was your typical guest host in the ring sideshow, but it was kind of fun. If I watched any entertainment shows, this would be where the clip would probably come from. I liked that Don Johnson was there with DX and then took Heder to the back with him for the “Rumble announcements” portion of the show.

So Triple H had something important he wanted to tell Shawn and then did it in front of everyone? Not sure if that jives with what he meant earlier, but I guess it’s cool. Cena’s announcement was a bit weird since Cole said earlier he was in, I suppose the crowd in the arena didn’t know that, but it didn’t quite work. I did like Show stumbling to his feat only to be knocked out of the ring after his announcement. HHH dispatching HBK to make his point was to be expected. It most certainly will be every man for himself.

Cena/Kofi over Legacy. Kofi gets some momentum back, and Cole acts like the losses to Randy Orton didn't happen. Looked like they were finally going to start the Legacy breakup angle, but they didn't get very far.

We'll have to see, but I wouldn't just the gun on this just yet. As I said in my comments, I think this is just some "Rumble tension" to build up "every man for himself." Would you say the end was teasing a DX break-up angle?

Why should a casual fan be interested in Orton/Sheamus? Not only a heel vs. heel match, but the champ has no heat at all.

A casual fan is most interested in the Royal Rumble. You could have Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker and it wouldn't do a ton for a more casual fan, that's why you won't see that type of match here in 2010. As I have been saying for weeks, WWE is more likely to play with the title matches because with the Rumble at the top of the card it doesn't matter. I don't think anyone ordered the 2004 Rumble to see Brock Lesnar vs. Hardcore Holly.

[Nygma]

But he got heat during the match and against randy. heck, randy even got cheered during the confrontation. Stop making stuff up.

Randy got cheered by default, not because fans actually like him. If I'm making stuff up then why are you the only one claiming he's gotten any reaction? Where are all these other people claiming that Sheamus is drawing any heel heat? Sheamus is still an over pushed mid-carder.

[hobbyfan]

Randy got cheered by default, not because fans actually like him. If I'm making stuff up then why are you the only one claiming he's gotten any reaction? Where are all these other people claiming that Sheamus is drawing any heel heat? Sheamus is still an over pushed mid-carder.

A year ago, I don't think we had any similar discussions regarding then-ECW champion Jack Swagger, who tore through ECW the same way Sheamus did. However, Sheamus has made the "right" connections (i.e. HHH) and progressed further than Swag did.

Hmmmm. I think I just solved the mystery over Swag getting dissed the way he has the last couple of weeks. Jealousy might've overtaken the "All-American American", IMPO. I actually like Sheamus. He's fresh and different, and isn't that what we've been asking for?

[The Penguin]

Randy got cheered by default, not because fans actually like him. If I'm making stuff up then why are you the only one claiming he's gotten any reaction? Where are all these other people claiming that Sheamus is drawing any heel heat? Sheamus is still an over pushed mid-carder.

You just helped make Hobbes' point for him. If the fans cheered Orton not because they like him then that means that of two guys they don't like, they hate Sheamus more than they hate Orton. Forced to pick, they'll pull for Orton because they can't stand Sheamus.

Sheamus may not be a "super-heel" at this point, but he certainly gets a reaction.