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  1. #1
    The Penguin's Avatar
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    Smallville "Kandor" Talkback (Spoilers)

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    "My father, he's here on Earth"! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

    Smallville #9-7 "Kandor"
    Friday, November 6, 2009 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
    Jor-El (guest star Julian Sands) mysteriously arrives at the Kent farm searching for his son, Kal-El, but meets Chloe (Allison Mack) instead. Convinced the Blur is Jor-El, Zod (Callum Blue) enlists Tess' (Cassidy Freeman) help in finding him to force him to reveal the secret to his powers. Clark (Tom Welling) realizes Jor-El is alive and on Earth and races to find him before Zod does. Erica Durance and Justin Hartley also star. Jeannot Szwarc directed the episode written by Turi Meyer & Al Septien.

    #9.06: "Crossfire"

    CWTV.com - Smallville
    "Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves." - Henry David Thoreau

  2. #2
    DisneyBoy's Avatar
    DisneyBoy is offline Searchin' My Soul
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    Was this airing tonight? Wow - oh yeah, it's November. Time flies.

  3. #3
    Old Guy is offline Banned
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    This was an odd episode to say the least. They're running out of ideas. I can just picture the writer's room:

    Writer #1: How about we bring Jor-El back to life?
    Executive Produce: Um, no. Any other ideas?

    Silence.

    EP: Okay, then. Jor-El returns, I guess.
    So, if the show ends this season or the next I won't complain.

  4. #4
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    Kryptonian nerve pinch!!


    Seriously, weird. O.o
    TCG | Let's Sakuga: Discussing animation and the people who make it! | Dragon Ball Z 2015 Film

  5. #5
    Hobbes829's Avatar
    Hobbes829 is offline The Bad Guy
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    i enjoyed the episode. Not great but not horrible either.
    "I’ve followed every part of the Bible! Even the parts that contradict the other parts" - Ned Flanders

    "Say Hello... to the Bad Guy" - Razor Ramon

    "They say that people mellow with age. However, the older I get, the less patience I have with cleverness." - Thomas Sowell

  6. #6
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    ABrown is offline Father of twins
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    I thought that this episode kind of helped answer some questions that I was having about these Kandorians.

  7. #7
    DisneyBoy's Avatar
    DisneyBoy is offline Searchin' My Soul
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    So....who is Julian Sands? I'm assuming he's famous for something, but what? Why not simply get the guy who plays Jor-El on the series to play him in the flesh? Is it part of that "don't show Jor-El" rule Smallville has to abide by?

    Whatever the reason, I like Mr Sands. He has a gentle look about him, and seeing him on the Kent farm felt like a really special thing. Too bad it was so horribly rushed. Chloe's 2-minute spoiler rundown really didn't seem in character. She's smart enough to see that he isn't aware of a son, or the end of his planet and maybe that means he shouldn't be told, lest it create a time paradox.

    Chloe seems very much to be playing Clark's mother this season, and it's not a likeable role. She gets upset with him when he goes off to live his own life, she schemes to get him back together with old friends (Ollie) and she shows up at his house to walk his dog, even though it's a four-hour trip out of her way. Martha should have been the one to meet Jor-El. I'm saying that, and I like Chloe. But this season nine Chloe? I can't say I blame people for not liking her. There isn't much there...

    Um...so the Kryptonian Council all agreed to put Jor-El to death, but then after a short speech about his accomplishments - all of which should be known by the Council, one would presume - they do a 180 and suddenly proclaim him a hero...?! This is such dumb writing, it's unbelievable.

    However, the explanation for the Kandorians makes sense, so that's good. They're clones, the orb was a fail-safe of sorts...but then, if they didn't want clones running around on earth because they were inferior, then why make clones? Why not just have some tech on the kryptonians that shrinks them down and zaps them into an orb-ship that can then be piloted to earth? I know, I know...you can't argue fake sci-fi logic.

    What is it with the sinister, super-in-your-face flirting so many of the characters on this show do? Annoying. We needed a second of Clark recognizing the first real glimpse of his father as he watched the barn tapes with Chloe and Ollie for the anger that followed to have weight.

    I really enjoyed the flashback to the creation of the Kryptonian elements, though. Was waiting to hear why exactly Jor-El would have made the orb capable of stripping his son of his powers - when at that point he didn't even have a son, correct? - and destroying the fortress - supposedly built for said nonexistant son - and instead? Origin of Davis. Well, show, you may have brutally wounded my interest in this series by discarding Davis and Sam Witwer, but that was an almost nice callback. Callum really played well off the whole dead son angle, even if I still can't entirely like him because he comes off like a thug.

    Cool moment with Clark attacking Tess. Hate her pink jammies though. And how could she talk if she were being held by the throat, though? It's the simple stuff Smallville, that makes the big difference. Nice tie-up from last year's whole "admit you're an alien" bit, even if the whole editor Tess angle has been so far absent from the season. Smart move to pull the camera away before it's really clear that Tom isn't doing any real crying. That was overwraught. But Jor was nice. Miss him.

    So...does Clark know Jor was only a clone? Why didn't we get a scene at the Fortress so El could explain how he was in two places at once? I mean, I get that El is a computer and Jor is a clone - I'm not dense - but it would have helped clear things up a bit.

    Oh goodie - Jor left behind another Kryptonian deus ex machina. Anyone wanna bet it'll help stop Zod in episode 22?

    This will be the last season, I'm betting. But at least Smallville had two semi-decent episodes back-to-back. I'll tune in for the Society two-parter, but that'll probably be it for this year. Most of this episode was spent explaining this year's headache-inducing villain presence and trying to explain past continuity elements. Too bad some of the really emotionally moments - Jor-El's chat with Chloe, Clark finally meeting Dad - were glossed over.

    EDIT: Have to repost these comments from tv without pity's boards, as they capture my frustrations brilliantly.

    And this is exactly the reason I'm no longer watching. The character destruction and random plot contrivance done just to line up with romantic Iconic Density, not to mention the utter inability of the "writers" to sustain any sort of momentum in an ongoing plot arc or to develop any deep motivation (beyond "oh the angst") for any of these people: Nothing shown on screen will necessarily be deemed to be relevant in the next couple of episodes; The constant waffling of everyone - Clark, Oliver, Chloe, Tess, even Lois - depending on what is needed for a particular scene; Explanations that make no sense or are contradicated a week later; They're never going to get any better and no amount of fanwanking is going to explain what is on screen except abysmal writing and a "vision" that only involves stretching this out for a long as possible. To me those answers by KS point to the flailing they're doing in trying to comprehend why the people who are no longer watching have chosen to do so. Two words, dear, Lousy Writing.

    Having the EP's appear in interviews to hint at yet more failed relationship futures for characters like Chloe only serves to drive my interest in the show even further down.

    I don't want her paired up with some random love interest. I don't care. Get her back in journalism again, and I might watch the second half of the season. But pairing her up with Random Dude #8 doesn't matter to anyone. And why exactly can't she have screen time unless she's paired up with a guy? Before Jimmy, she had plenty of screentime without being paired up. What is with these producers and their absurd focus on "romance"?

    Regarding being Superman: Though THIS 'Superman' is capable of brushing off first degree murder so cavalierly and even offer emotional support to the murderer, his best friend is treated much more severely for what I feel is the lesser crime of trying to save Davis when he was not worthy of being saved (a judgment that some might argue was not a crime at all, but a striving after the REAL superman's ideal that he should try to save everyone). For that 'crime' Chloe is frozen out by Clark and denied all emotional support at a time when she is mourning for Jimmy, worried about Lois missing , and wracked with guilt about Jimmy's death, which Clark has implicitly blamed her for. Clark continues to treat her coldly and pretend to "Kryptonian" indifference even while he's indulging in human telephone dalliances with Lois. The emotional hell Chloe went through has apparently warped her; she seems to have swallowed wholesale Clark's idea that she was wrong to try to save Davis and that the end (saving the world) DOES in fact justify the means (doing harm and injustice to one to save many). And the plotline seems to indicate that she's carrying these ideas out, making ever more morally ambiguous decisions. But Clark, even though he's more or less reverted to his previous 'human' (albeit dickish) attitude, has never bothered to sit down and tell her that he was wrong; that the end DOESN'T necessarily justify the means. Even though he had the perfect opening when he heard about how Metallo's sister was killed because Clark made a decision to save a killer similar to the one Chloe made to save Davis, he didn't tell her, "You know, that thing with Metallo's sister got me thinking about what happened to Davis. Maybe you should have done things differently to try to save him, just like I should've been more careful when I saved the prison bus and let one of the violent felons inside escape. But I still think that trying to save them was the right thing to do, and I think your heart was in the right place when you tried to save Davis." Instead, he light-heartedly ignores the fact that he left her without help for the worst month of her life and doesn't ever bother to inquire if it left any marks on her. And yeah, I know Chloe is in the end responsible for her own moral decisions, but that doesn't absolve Clark of his own abdication of his responsibilities as her friend. If he's the REAL Superman, he ought to be held to a higher moral standard. Instead, the morality of the Smallville universe seems to depend on whatever Clark's whims are at any given moment, and I can't see that as Supermanly.

    Regarding Clois: I had a friend that stopped watching asking me about SV today and I told her: "do you remember how bad Clana was? If you watch S9 you will wish Clana was back..." so yeah on the same train.
    Last edited by DisneyBoy; 11-08-2009 at 02:43 AM.

  8. #8
    k.s. is offline Member
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    I thought this was another great episode but it still had some minor flaws. The biggest one was the retcon involving Zod's family - that his wife and child died in Kandor 20 years before the destruction of Krypton instead of his wife being sent to the Phantom Zone with him and his "son" being Doomsday as we saw in Bloodline last year. Somehow, this didn't turn out to be that big a deal for me though since I still found myself thoroughly enjoying the story. The Krypton flashbacks were also my favorite parts of the episode, so I'm willing to be more forgiving than usual for continuity errors in those scenes.

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyBoy View Post
    Um...so the Kryptonian Council all agreed to put Jor-El to death, but then after a short speech about his accomplishments - all of which should be known by the Council, one would presume - they do a 180 and suddenly proclaim him a hero...?! This is such dumb writing, it's unbelievable.
    If that was what actually happened, I would agree with you that that would be exceptionally stupid writing. Thankfully, that's not what happened at all. The council made it clear that Jor-El was being sentenced to death for treason since he decided to put an end to the "orb project" despite the fact that he had no authority to do so. When Zod intervened, they did not release Jor-El because Zod listed off his accomplishments. They obviously knew that Jor-El was the top scientist of Krypton. The council released him because Major Zod (presumably a major player on Krypton at that time given the council's reaction to his entrance) vouched for Jor-El and explained that while Jor-El's actions would normally be unacceptable, given the destruction of Kandor and the loss of numerous Kryptonian scientists, it would not be prudent to kill off yet another scientist (especially their top one, at that) for such a minor incursion (compared to what else was going on at the time).

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyBoy View Post
    So...does Clark know Jor was only a clone? Why didn't we get a scene at the Fortress so El could explain how he was in two places at once? I mean, I get that El is a computer and Jor is a clone - I'm not dense - but it would have helped clear things up a bit.
    This is another minor problem I noticed. It's not clear what Clark knows about them at this point, but I would say it is most logical for him to believe that the Kandorians on Earth are the real deal until he is given reason to believe they are clones. This leads us to a very confusing point, though - if Clark thinks that the Kandorians are the same as him, why did he not question why Jor-El died while bathed in the yellow sun? More importantly, why is he not seriously worried that Zod is back on Earth presumably with the full powers of a Kryptonian? Smallville's history has shown us that other than Lex and maybe Brainiac, Zod is one of this Superman's biggest villains. Hopefully we'll see Clark take a more active role in seeking out Zod in Pandora.

    Edit: DisneyBoy, just out of curiosity, where on the TWOP forums did you find this quote: "To me those answers by KS point to the flailing they're doing in trying to comprehend why the people who are no longer watching have chosen to do so." Assuming that the KS is me, I'm interested in seeing the full context of the discussion and which quote that person was talking about. I just tried searching through the forums but I wasn't able to find it.
    Last edited by k.s.; 11-08-2009 at 11:36 AM.

  9. #9
    Hobbes829's Avatar
    Hobbes829 is offline The Bad Guy
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    please stop posting things from people on another board. The problem i have with these guys is that they seem to be intent on complaining about a show and yet continually watching it. Clark and Lois are nothing like Lana and Clark. That was painful to watch towards the end. This is more mature. They aren't remotely on the same train as Lana and Clark.

    Some of the things in this season are starting to come into focus.

    As for chloe and clark's relationship, WAIT! we have a 22 episode season to cover that material. Not everything has to be done immediately. I do agree with that one assessment about getting her back into journalism. This is out of her depth and completely contrived. either that, or get her off the show.
    "I’ve followed every part of the Bible! Even the parts that contradict the other parts" - Ned Flanders

    "Say Hello... to the Bad Guy" - Razor Ramon

    "They say that people mellow with age. However, the older I get, the less patience I have with cleverness." - Thomas Sowell

  10. #10
    DisneyBoy's Avatar
    DisneyBoy is offline Searchin' My Soul
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    Hobbes, I can't deny that the majority of the tv without pity posters seem really annoyed with the series, but that's an opinion I share. I still check the show out. It's Superman - people love the character, so even if this series has mangled him many, many, many times over in the last nine years, curiosity will still bring you back to see if maybe, just maybe the writers did something right this week. While watching Crossfire and Kandor back-to-back, I walked away from the computer at least four times, bored and disinterested. The only scene that really had my interest was the flashback to the creation of the crystals. So when I see someone agreeing with me and expressing themselves in a fashion I find insightful and clear, I might want to share that with the readers here, to see if anyone else agrees, or simply to spark discussion about the episode. Believe me, I'm not posting the really angry stuff...

    I don't know if you've noticed, but these talkback threads this season have been really dead compared to even last year's, nevermind season one or two threads. People have given up so much on this show, they don't even criticize it here at Toonzone anymore. What's the use? The producers are working with blinders on (Lana with superpowers? Lois macking on everyone? Jimmy being Henry? Chloe's Dad disappearing to never again be mentioned? Clark being unable to see someone standing twelve feet away from him when there's nothing else in the clearing but a small grave? Him never really studying journalism? Him abandoning a friend who was just widowed?) and until they step back, listen to viewers (the way they seemed to be doing last year) and start trying to write with some consistency and quality again, this show's entertainment value is barely more than that of watching a real trainwreck.

    But I always give credit where it's due. Sands was quite good as Jor, Callum's dead-son request bit worked well...and um....yeah.

    As for chloe and clark's relationship, WAIT! we have a 22 episode season to cover that material. Not everything has to be done immediately.

    Sure, fine, easy for you to say - you hate Chloe You're not even complaining about the narrative inconsistencies between last year and this one. In HEX, Chloe inspired Clark to make his super-leap, reminding him of the person he is. In this year's premiere, suddenly Lois is the center of Clark's mind, the reason he doesn't fly and the only person he's going to keep in his life when he gets moody? Um...what?

    I've said this before, but to me Chloe is one of the few reasons I still had hope for this series and eventually came back to it. And this year, while dealing with two deaths she surely feels guilty over, Clark walked away from her to make goo-goo eyes over Lois. The show is literally treating her like dirt. I was willing to suspend disbelief last season when Chloe wanted a break from journalism. But now? She's a tech girl/sidekick with no life and - as you've pointed out - little purpose on the series, simply because the writers now want to phase her out and turn Lois into what Chloe has been this entire series long; Clark's good friend/possible love interest/serious journalist/fan favorite character. It's sickening, really. People loved and still love Chloe. This Lois hardly won people over in as big a fashion. So no...waiting through another ten episodes of Lois and her wig and Clark and his stupid black coat before Chloe maybe gets back some of the focus she had last year...ain't enough.

    Edit: DisneyBoy, just out of curiosity, where on the TWOP forums did you find this quote: "To me those answers by KS point to the flailing they're doing in trying to comprehend why the people who are no longer watching have chosen to do so." Assuming that the KS is me, I'm interested in seeing the full context of the discussion and which quote that person was talking about. I just tried searching through the forums but I wasn't able to find it.

    If your name is Kelly Souders, executive producer for Smallville who recently did a Q+A about the show for EW I believe it was, then yes...they're talking about you. I was going through the spoiler threads yesterday when I think I came across that quote, so I think it's in reference to this Michael Aussiello interview:

    Question: Why has Allison Mack had so little screen time on Smallville this season? —Kathy
    Ausiello: The calm before the storm, perhaps? “Chloe fans will not be disappointed,” Souders maintains. “There will be some budding romance in her life from an unexpected source.”

    And if you really are Kelly Souders - boy do we need to talk :anime:

    If not - welcome to Toonzone anyways! I'm generally not nearly as grumpy as I sound here. See, I even unearthed the post I was referring to:

    http://forums.televisionwithoutpity....12634&st=67350

    Scroll down - it was written by pyralis.

    The council released him because Major Zod (presumably a major player on Krypton at that time given the council's reaction to his entrance) vouched for Jor-El and explained that while Jor-El's actions would normally be unacceptable, given the destruction of Kandor and the loss of numerous Kryptonian scientists, it would not be prudent to kill off yet another scientist (especially their top one, at that) for such a minor incursion (compared to what else was going on at the time).

    Okay...but that still doesn't make the Council seem any less dumb. Killing the man who decided not to finish the project isn't a reasonable way to get what you want. They knew he was the best scientist on Krypton, and they thought killing him and scrapping the whole project would get them ahead...how? The way the scene plays out, as is, it reads as though Zod was reminding the nimrods that Jor was too good to kill off. Well, no kidding! He's the only person who was single-handedly trying to save the Kandorians!

    It would be one thing if the Council was pleading with Jor to change his moral stance, and Zod offered up some assurance that he could convince Jor to change his mind, or just plain changed Jor's mind right there, therefore sparing them from having to kill him - or even if the Council was shown in some subtle way to be "carrying out the law" and playing bad cop, all the while relying on Zod to come in and play good cop and give them a plausible enough excuse to circumvent the law. But that wasn't how it played out. It was more like "We can't get the toaster to work so we're going to burn down the house." "But then you won't have a toaster or a house." "So okay, we'll just TELL the toaster to work instead. And not burn down the house. And maybe that'll do it." At least to me.

    The biggest one was the retcon involving Zod's family - that his wife and child died in Kandor 20 years before the destruction of Krypton instead of his wife being sent to the Phantom Zone with him and his "son" being Doomsday as we saw in Bloodline last year.

    There's no way you're Kelly Souders if you're asking these questions The implied idea in Kandor is that Zod once had a wife and child, lost them, begged Jor to help bring them back, Jor said no, so Zod went and remarried later to Faora and cooked up his own clone baby thing to send to earth. Doesn't really explain why he'd want his son to kill all humanity though, as explained in "Legion" (maybe just clark would have sufficed?) or why Zod would want Brainiac to take all the knowledge afterwards and just destroy the planet...but hey! It's Smallville! Why give myself a headache?

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