"Spider-Man 3" Talkback (Spoilers)

**Bird Boy** · 05-04-2007, 12:23 AM

How long can any man fight the darkness... before he finds it in himself?

"I'm here humbled and humiliated to ask you for one thing... I want you to kill Peter Parker." - Eddie Brock

Release Date: May 4, 2007 (With May 3rd Midnight Showings)
Studio: Columbia Pictures
Director: Sam Raimi
Screenwriter: Alvin Sargent
Starring: Tobey Maguire, Kirsten Dunst, James Franco, Thomas Haden Church, Topher Grace, Bryce Dallas Howard, James Cromwell, Rosemary Harris

Plot Summary: In Spider-Man 3, based on the legendary Marvel Comics series, Peter Parker has finally managed to strike a balance between his devotion to M.J. and his duties as a superhero. But there is a storm brewing on the horizon. When his suit suddenly changes, turning jet-black and enhancing his powers, it transforms Peter as well, bringing out the dark, vengeful side of his personality that he is struggling to control. Under the influence of the suit, Peter becomes overconfident and starts to neglect the people who care about him most. Forced to choose between the seductive power of the new suit and the compassionate hero he used to be, Peter must overcome his personal demons as two of the most-feared villains yet, Sandman and Venom, gather unparalleled power and a thirst for retribution to threaten Peter and everyone he loves.

Comments? What are your thoughts?

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**Simpler Simon** · 05-04-2007, 03:01 AM

This might be the first time I've ever made 1st post for a major movie talkback

Just got back from the midnight screening. Loved it. Not without its problems, mainly a convoluted story that tried to juggle too many plots at once, with some odd contrivances here and there. But it all comes together in the end, and the film takes the characters to new places, which the last installment didnt really do for me. The end battle is one of the coolest vfx action sequences in recent memory.

Pretty much up there with Casino Royale and Batman Begins in terms of enjoyment for me.

EDIT: I suspect we'll know in a few weeks as little trivia bits start leaking across the net, but I'm almost positive that the 'omlet dropping' bit is an outtake that made its way into the final film because its so amusing.

**Solitude1** · 05-04-2007, 03:06 AM

Wow. I get first post. Huzzah!
*EDIT* Darn so close...I can always settle for second.

First of all the movie was fantastic. I didn't think that they would be able to give us such a story in 2 something hours but they did and it was amazing. The beginning credits was a nice review of the last 2 movies in case you hadn't seen them.

The story focuses on Peter and actually being appreciated as Spider-Man for a change. Meanwhile MJ is still having trouble with being on Broadway. I thought it was a nice balence since viceversa was seen in the last movie. You could really see Peter's cluelessness when discussing how MJ feels about not getting the attention that she wants. I also thought that Maguire did an excellent Peter once again. Seeing Peter have the attitude change to the suit was a riot. From him dancing in the streets, to kicking Harry's ass with no mercy kept my eyes on the screen at all time. Some lines were kind of funny to hear Tobey say. I guess he didn't put enough strength in some of them. It made him sound like he was trying to sound hard but really wasn't.

The first fight scene with Harry was awesome. Plus adding in the subplot of memory loss like the comics was genius. Franco really put some emotion in the character of Harry. I'm glad they got to expand on him as much as they did because now it feels like Harry was a full grown character who had come full circle. The new gear also looks badass. Why couldn't his dad have used that gear in the first one?

Sandman's story was a simple one and I guess didn't really need much speaking parts from Church. Just one man trying to do the right thing but making the wrong choices. At first I didn't like him being tied to Uncle Ben's murder but, in the end I realized that it made a good point in the whole forgiveness/redemption lesson that is put throughout the movie. Special effects were exceptionally well done. I think I might have shaked a bit whenever Spidey took a punch from him. Sound effects plus.

I didn't think that Topher could pull off Eddie let alone Venom. He succeeded and failed. His Eddie character was perfect and represented that same cockiness that Eddie has always had. However, I must say that his Venom voice was really out of whack. The only time it changed was when he was fully masked, and then he didn't even talk. He just growled a lot. It was a bit irritating but none the less they did a good job for having him on the screen for an hour.

Now the nitpicks. For one, I was really hoping that Venom would talk like he usually does. In third person. I was hoping to hear how "they" both hated Spider-Man. Also, am I the only one that thought that the kids were shown a bit too much. I was annoyed that they added that one scene of the kid selling the camera to JJ while the fight was going on. It was just an awkward scene that should have been worked somewhere else. ALSO, although I always enjoy the music in Spider-Man movies, their was just TOO MUCH background melodies....it was laughable because I knew exactly when it would come on. I know its supposed to be the last movie but come on...

....but all things aside. I was pleasantly pleased. The ending couldn't have been more perfect. That way if they do make another one, we can focus more on the Mary Jane/Peter dynamic.

Come on Spider Man 4! Oh, and the Bruce Campbell bit....hilarious.

**StormBlue** · 05-04-2007, 03:28 AM

Actually enjoyed it. The movie took its time in devoting screen time to the storylines involving Peter/MJ/Harry and Peter/Eddie Brock. The attention to detail was fantastic and the comedy was spot on.

All of this is coming from a guy whose ONLY experience with Spidey (other than the movies) is from the Fox animated series. Therefore, my only complaint would have been the lack of time on the Spidey/Venom battle. In retrospect, I think that would have been overdone if added to all the battles we already had. Sandman...I'm on the fence as to whether he was really needed. He gave us a villain for Black Spidey to face and treat like dirt (pun intended). So in that case, yeah...he was good beat up fodder.

I was catching up with a friend of mine after the movie who watched it with some other guys. He didn't really like it and said that 80% of the people he talked to who are die-hard Spider-Man fans didn't like how the movie didn't stick with comic protocol. From that standpoint, I can understand. However for someone like me who goes into the movie knowing very little about Gwen Stacey and Sandman and who only has the movie mythos in mind... everything worked well. Sam Raimi has taken creative liberties with the franchise since the start; it's almost expected that he won't stay true to comic origins. His conscious decisions to deviate and reach the broader movie-goer audience is evident and yet I don't think detracts from the story at all.

The best movie moment was how the Peter/Harry clash was tied up. Good stuff.

My friend and I decided to make the following comparison... Spider-Man 3 > X-Men 3. I may not have been extraordinarily blown away, but I came away from the movie satisfied.

Plus, Bruce Campbell was hilarious!

P.S.- Also hilarious was emo-Peter. The cartoon (90's series) had liberty in buffing up Peter to reflect his change because of the black suit. Emo-Peter...well hey, you gotta do something. The restaurant scene with Gwen and Mary Jane...deliciously EVIL!!! I was wondering what would really jolt Peter into realizing the suit was not good for him, and unintentionally hitting Mary Jane was a great way to turn him around.

**GregX** · 05-04-2007, 03:34 AM

Spider-Man 3... Peter Goes Emo
Yup, Peter went emo. Even parted his hair to get that emo look. You'll know it when you see it, and you will laugh and laugh and laugh.

First off, I'm going to say this. The audience I saw this with completely ruined it. They wouldn't shut up. Now, I'm not adverse to getting up and getting in someone's face at a movie... but, it wasn't just a group. It was groups. Plural. Ruined the movie. At some point, I'll see it again, hopefully during the day with less drunk stoners surrounding me.

The movie itself.

*** SPOILERS ***

I've got so many problems with it, maybe it was the audience, I don't know. There was way, way, way too much crammed in there. If three villains sounded like too much to you, well, you were write. There was one that needed to be cut, and well, it was Venom. I know he's the one the audience wanted, but he was too much. More on him later.

Harry/Green Goblin II (I refuse to call him "New Goblin"): I feel bad, he got the shaft. They were building up to him at the end of the first movie, and through the entirety of the second movie. He was vengeful, he was smart about it, he was vicious. So much potential there, but he got the shaft, because ever since the first movie, people were demanding a certain fanged menace.

Sandman: I liked him a lot more than I thought I would. I never cared much for him in the comics. His story was compelling, it worked for me. I didn't care for the revelation that he actually shot Uncle Ben, at first I thought it absolved Peter of all responsibility for letting the Burglar go. I figured it had to be a set up, the only word we got was that he confessed it to his cell mate. I figured there would be a little twist, the cell mate trying to testify to get parole or something. Nope, Sandman did it. Accidently... it was the Burglar's fault... but it didn't sit right with me. Nor did Peter forgiving him at the end of the movie. But, he was very well done. The fight scenes were very suspenseful... too bad his story never quite finishes.

Venom: Alright, fanboys. You wanted Venom. You begged, you screamed, you cried, you threatened. Sam Raimi gave him to you. I hope you liked him. Oh, I can already hear the whining now... "He wasn't in it enough!" That's right, Eddie Brock only becomes Venom in the third act of the movie, but you know what? That's all he needed. It's all he deserved. More than he deserved, in fact. Venom is a one note character, he always has been. A glorified stalker with sharp teeth. He was never anywhere near the villain that Norman Osborn, Dr. Octopus, the Hobgoblin and Harry Osborn were. This movie is epitomizes this. He stole Harry's thunder. Thanks a lot, fanboys. In all fairness, yes, he did look cool... but then, he always did look cool in the comics. Venom is eye candy, and that's the nicest thing I can say about the character. Well, Topher Grace did do a good job as Eddie Brock, but that's to be expected. Loved him in "That 70's Show"... I wanted to shout "Dumbass!" when he died, but didn't... too bad, he did have a real dumbass death.

As I said, it's obvious there was more planned for Harry, before Venom was forced into the movie... Raimi has gone on record in the past saying that he did not want to use Venom... and did it show. He gets the suit, and what does he do? He kidnaps Mary Jane and forces Peter into a fight... that's all. That's it. Harry attacked Peter emotionally first. Much more effective than anything Venom could have done. Venom can kill Peter, yes. But only Harry could hurt him. And, Harry could have still had his dramatic, emotional death scene.

Oh, and I hated Jimminy Cricket the Butler. So, you cleaned Norman Osborn's wounds, it was obvious he died by his own hands, and you didn't tell Harry this two movies ago. You knew that Norman Osborn was the Green Goblin, and didn't make millions writing the tell-all book. You give the moral speech which convinces Harry to help Peter... weakest scene in the entire movie. Utterly contrived.

Honestly, Peter himself was the best part of the movie. Tobey Maguire never convinced me that he was Peter Parker in the previous two, but he did here. Before Topher Grace was cast as Eddie Brock, I used to say that he should have been Peter. But, I did like him as evil Peter. I'm sure some people missed the psycho body builder, but I liked him as the evil Peter Parker.

I know I'm complaining a lot, but I liked it, I really did. The damn audience just really hurt the experience. I will go see it again, and hopefully I'll have a better time.

*** END SPOILERS ***

**Simpler Simon** · 05-04-2007, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by Solitude1

Wow. I get first post. Huzzah!
*EDIT* Darn so close...I can always settle for second.

There's always the transformers talkback!

The beginning credits was a nice review of the last 2 movies in case you hadn't seen them.

It was nice, but it kinda confirmed how I felt about the 2nd one...that really, anything of importance happened within the last bit of the film, and the first 90min was a retread of movie 1.

The first fight scene with Harry was awesome. Plus adding in the subplot of memory loss like the comics was genius. Franco really put some emotion in the character of Harry. I'm glad they got to expand on him as much as they did because now it feels like Harry was a full grown character who had come full circle.

The memory loss scenes were hilarious, because it's such a bright, chipper Harry that we've never seen, but that was one of the main contrivances for me. Harry loses his memory, which convienently writes him off as a threat until the plot needs him again. It's probably the only way the writers thought to keep Harry from attacking Peter 24/7, and I bought it because Franco gave an excellent, honest performance. But it doesn't quite hold up.

And what's with that butler scene? That's all they could think of to change Harry's mind? Could've told Harry earlier and saved him a bomb in the face.

I think I might have shaked a bit whenever Spidey took a punch from him. Sound effects plus.

Me too. Lot of painful moments in Spider-Man 3. People always bouncing off girders and smacking their heads. Lucky they're all super-powered.

I was really hoping that Venom would talk like he usually does. In third person. I was hoping to hear how "they" both hated Spider-Man. Also, am I the only one that thought that the kids were shown a bit too much.

Yeah the camera scene wasn't needed, but its an extra flourish that's trademark Raimi. Same with all the expository dialogue from the news anchors at the end.

I liked what they did with Venom. Considering a 4th movie isnt a guarantee at this point, they did a good job of squeezing out the essence of what makes Eddie Brock tick and put it in the film. If you took out all the eddie/venom material, you'd lose the extra 20mins that makes this film longer than the first two.

**Ben** · 05-04-2007, 04:03 AM

It was just OK. Way too many things distracted from the trio of Peter/MJ/Harry, which is what the movie should have been about. It also definitely didn't look like the most expensive movie ever made should.

**Nygma** · 05-04-2007, 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by Simpler Simon

Just got back from the midnight screening. Loved it. Not without its problems, mainly a convoluted story that tried to juggle too many plots at once, with some odd contrivances here and there. But it all comes together in the end, and the film takes the characters to new places, which the last installment didnt really do for me. The end battle is one of the coolest vfx action sequences in recent memory.

Agreed, I found this to be fun to watch, but the main problem with the movie was it didn't know what direction it wanted to go in, where as the other two knew what direction it was heading in. This one felt like it was trying way too hard to top itself by throwing everything in but the kitchen sink.

There were a lot of funny moments in the movie though, Bruce Campell as the french waitress was a riot, JJ getting ripped off by the 10 year old for film was another one, also the Stan Lee cameo (the whole audience applauded for that scene).

Peter's time in the symbiote suit was a mixed bag. On one hand there were moments like with him killing Sandman that were utterly bad ass. Peter flirting with Betty Brant was a nice fan boy nod. I loved Tobey McGuire's delivery with the whole "Goblin Jr." line. However stuff like him dancing in the club like he were The Mask had me rolling my eyes.

Harry's death nearly brought me to tears, but I held them in. But one question, why did Harry's butler wait till then to tell Harry about how his father died, instead of him doing it sooner? His gear was utterly bad ass however, especially the glider. If only they had that for Gobbi in the first film he might not have been so embarrassing to look at.

Topher Grace as Eddie Brock/Venom didn't do much for me. I don't think he's a bad actor, he's just not how I imagined Eddie Brock on the big screen. I like how they had Peter costing him his job and Gwen Stacey. And the Venom design was utterly awesome. Unfortunately he suffered from not having enough screen time to develop.

Speaking of not having enough time to develop, I probably would've cut out Sandman from the movie and focused the movie on Harry's grudge against Peter. The thought with Sandman was there, but it felt like he was lost in the shuffle, like Venom and Harry.

If there is one flaw that I felt hurt this movie its that it felt like they were biting off more then they could chew, and there was no clear focus on any one villain's story until the end. It felt like they were trying to hard to top Spider-Man 2 but the villains lacked the appropriate screen time.

Overall, it's no where near as good as Spider-Man 2 (but few things are), but it's still a pretty good Spidey movie.

***1/2-****

**nowlight** · 05-04-2007, 04:38 AM

That by far was the worst thing that ive ever seen! I lost 2:10hrs of my life on that POS movie.

**Cortez2301** · 05-04-2007, 05:39 AM

Really good movie.Did venom really die?

**Tapout** · 05-04-2007, 06:00 AM

Overall not bad. Everything I expected to be a problem going in was indeed a problem, but not as bad as I thought it'd be. Venom not referring to him/it/themself as "we" was my biggest gripe. It really is an essential part of the character, especially once Carnage comes along (yes, I know there aren't and probably never will be any plans for Carnage in movies, but the point stands). I thought they made Venom a little too like Carnage actually. Eddie Brock is an arrogant, vengeful jerk, but he's not as evil or insane as the movie portrayed him.

**Terminatah** · 05-04-2007, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by king zrz

Really good movie.Did venom really die?

Spoiler:

First impressions, I would say it's better than part 2, but overall, maybe not quite as good as part 1. But it's a very small margin between all of them.

Oh, you guys will appreciate this. I saw this at the midnight show in the Cinerama Dome at the Arclight in Hollywood. Before every movie starts, they always have a theater employee giving a speech about turning off cell phones, pointing out ushers, and telling everyone to enjoy the movie. Tonight, instead of an employee, there was this guy in casual threads reading the speech from a piece of paper. It was Tobey Maguire. Theater went nuts, and they went right into the movie, no trailers.

-Terminatah

**Sketch** · 05-04-2007, 06:56 AM

Now now Greg, Venom is one of my favorite Spider-Man characters. Possibly my favorite if Carnage isn't. Venom doesn't quite have the sob story or the complications that some do but he does focus his life on destorying Peter Parker in every way imaginable. What Harry did in this movie could have been done by Venom alone as well. However since Peter and Eddie weren't friends you wouldn't have the backstabbing. But he could have manipulated Mary Jane and I'm pretty sure he has manipulated Peter's loved ones in previous incarnations.

Ever since I saw Spawn (and boy did that movie suck) I wanted to see how they'd handled Venom on the big screen. I think they actually could have done a lot more with him from a visual stand point. Great design but the only time we really got to see some really spiffy CGI work with Venom was when the symbiot seperated from Eddie. And yes... Brock was being a dumbass but I wonder if some how... some way... he'll be back... There is afterall, Carnage to consider.

Nice for Harry to be "good" in the end but I felt the team up wasn't neccessary. Though I suppose without him Spider-Man would have gotten his butt handed to him. None the less, it would have been interesting to see how he might handled them alone.

I do feel GGII got the short end of the stick because he could have done a lot more and at a slower pace. However, Green Goblin did similar things and actually tried to manipulate Spider-Man more than that. So I'd say that story was mostly already covered. Even so the 3 villian juggling was a bit much.

Sandman was well animated for sure and they did give him a good reason for being there but honestly he wasn't neccessary. I will give props to the screen writers for making him fit and dang man... getting hit by that particle beam must have hurt. It was also kinda lame how he just "quits" but I guess that's built into his character. I'd say they gave the movie Sandman a lot more character than I've noticed of him in previous incarnations but maybe I just haven't been paying attention.

Topher was great as Eddie, and he was kinda good a "evil Peter"/"scrawny psycho". I can live without a burly Venom. Though I do wish they'd have him talk in the "we's" and "ours" but eh... not a big deal. It just makes him and Carnage closer in character I guess. IIRC, Eddie Brock was mentioned in one of the previous Spider-Man movies. Unfortunately Topher was "evil Peter" and he would have been a good Peter if McGuire doesn't stick around for the rumored 3 other sequels.

The story was juggling a lot of things and for that it managed to do things pretty well but I think it would have benefited from more time. Just a bit more really.

The fights were great. All of them were well choreographed and the animation was fantastic. The last fight was a bit complicated and half the time I was thinking... "why aren't the both attacking together more often?" but when Spidey was pinned down by Venom and Sandman was pounding him it was seriously brutal.

Bruce Cambell does it again. And in his best part yet. And of course Stan Lee sneaks in a cameo as always.

Not enough Gwen and I would have to guess after that stunt in the resturant (which BTW was awesome) I doubt Gwen will ever go out with Peter again.

There was some great comedy throughout. Jameson's blood pressure in particular was a great bit. As was smooth move'n emo Peter.

Actually Venom seemed kinda wimpy. He was strong and his web was very strong but normally Venom would be more than enough to whoop Spider-Man on his own. Sandman seemed like the stronger oponent in this version.

Having said all that... and maybe more later. After the movie I was satisfied. That feeling I wanted to feel after seeing TMNT was there. I was afraid I'd be dissapointed but it freak'n rocked and I want to see it again for sure.

-----------

And here's my little rewrite. Yeah I've got one.

Okay, no Sandman. He worked, he was a nice tasty visual treat but none the less... I think they could do without him. Throw in a more random thug. Rhino maybe... yeah I'm mimicking the cartoon... so sue me.

Here's how it goes down. Harry and Peter go at it. While Peter and Brock compete for work. Harry loses his memory but he gains it back soon enough to really screw up Peter's life which still drives Mary Jane away along with their other conflicts. The symbiot bonds with Peter over his anger and then Peter and Harry go at it again but this time Peter kills Harry and THIS is what snaps him out of his power trip. The symbiot bonds with Brock who has developed quite a hatred for Peter Parker. He goes around the city pretending to be Spider-Man and ruining Spider-Man's name (yeah it's cheezy, I know) then he goes after Peter's loved ones (Mary Jane and Aunt May) in various ways. Finally he and Spidey clash in a total throw down. Peter tries to reason with Brock to no avail and then Peter tries to reason with the symbiot (as he did in some versions of the story) and tricks the symbiot into returning to him and then he does away with the symbiot leaving Brock alive with nothing and longing for the symbiot. The symbiot is not dead of course and Conners still has a sample which will later out of isolations and possibly experimentation will become Carnage when it later finds it's host but that wouldn't happen in this movie and probably wouldn't even be hinted at. And yes Venom would return.

That being said going on the current continuity in future stories I want to see The Lizard (he's GOT to be in it after how much Conners was in the series), Carnage (not in the next movie maybe in the 5th or 6th), Mysterio (too much fun and I wonder what back story he'd have in this version) and probably Scorpion (someone wants Spider-Man dead, bam). I wonder if they can even use King Pin but he'd be nice. And Electro is also possible. Granted King Pin, Electro and Lizard were in the continuty if you count the MTV series and Mysterio among other rouges were in the video games based on movies 1 and 2 (haven't played 3 yet but probably that one too). Heck if they don't use any of those then they've limited their selection quite a bit.

**Pepperidge** · 05-04-2007, 07:20 AM

So I caught the midnight premiere of Spider-Man 3 just a few hours ago. Based on everything I had seen and heard up until that point, I was very anxious right up until I was sitting in the theatre about exactly what type of movie this was going to be. Ultimately, it turned out to be the type of movie that made me want to jump on the internet and start writing things.

If this makes you apprehensive, don't get too worried. The movie is mostly good. Just make sure you lower your expectations before plunking down your cash. Lower them significantly. Many aspects of the film, I thought, were absolutely excellent, and most of these came together in a way that I would consider satisfactory. The film definitely manages to hit its element. Unfortunately it has to do so several times, since every good streak is ultimately dragged down by some horribly out-of-place nugget of narrative incompetence. And for the sake of encouraging a much more objective (and hopefully more enjoyable) viewing experience, I will warn you right now that almost all of these scenes involve Harry Osbourne.

Out of everything in this movie, his subplot is the only thing that I could say really goes "wrong". Why this happened, I can't understand. The comics provided first rate material that could be worked off of and easily compressed into cinematic enjoyment, and all of this is ignored. Instead, we get a bout of amnesia that carries good intentions on a narrative level but proves ultimately pointless, an insipid game of cat-and-mouse which reflects depressingly small ambitions, and a barely passable reconciliation. There is one good confrontation involving Harry. Or rather, a confrontation that becomes good. So again, "mostly good" would be a better term for it. It isn't anywhere near as huge a let down as the pathetic resolution to the Phoenix thing from the X-Men series. But with the results we got after two films of build-up, I almost wish it could've been as pointless. The fact that Harry's portrayal in SM3 was conceived by all three of the people who laid the seeds for his development previous films shows that overarching plot elements just don't work in superhero films.

The character of Eddie Brock, in contrast, was excellent. I loved every second Topher was on screen, and I know this because I could almost count them. Likewise, the scenes with Peter in the black suit proved to be the most enjoyable part of the movie. You wouldn't think that playing it for laughs would prove effective, but it really really did. Tobey Maguire really plays the part better when you don't have to take him seriously. Naturally, neither of these elements were given enough focus. When the two forces that would eventually create Venom were in desperate need of screen time, we instead got scene after scene of the seemingly-endless Harry-Peter-MJ entanglement. I mean, after the way these relationships have developed over two films, can anything but monotony and repetition really be expected?

In rationalizing the movie, I felt I should compare it to the Alien Costume Saga from the 90s animated series, which I consider to be the best interpretation of the Venom story to date. That version had Venom take out the "filler" bad guys from the previous two episodes like a true badass. This version had Venom (who is never actually identified as "Venom") conveniently team-up with the bad guy who would've been best left as "filler" for the first half of the film. That's a mark off, but it was made up for with a slightly more likable portrayal of Eddie in the movie. Likewise, the cartoon was riddled with a retarded subplot surrounding some plot device of a rock called "Promethium X". This version is riddled with a retarded subplot surrounding some plot device of a rock called "Harry Osbourne". I'd say that's about even.

So basically...

+ Excellent visuals and actions, if not a bit contrived at times.
+ The portrayal of Spidey and the black suit. I know everyone was terrified when those first photos of "Emo Peter" showed up, but thankfully this was played entirely for laughs. All of these scenes were hilarious, and just effective enough to demonstrate the effects of the suit.
+ Topher Grace as Eddie Brock/Venom. Only complaint was that he didn't use the term "we". Come on, even Doc Ock used "we"!
+ The retcon of Sandman killing Uncle Ben doesn't turn out to be that significant of a change at all.
+ Way more screen time for Betty Brandt! Seriously, seeing dark Spidey shamelessly progress their relationship beyond vague flirtation almost made the movie for me.

- Harry Osbourne. Almost every excruciating, audience-insulting moment he was on screen.
- Unnecessarily long build up to the black suit.
- While I wasn't aggravated by his presence as much as one of my friends was, Sandman was really unnecessary. Clearly nothing more than a ploy to appease old-school fans. His exit was also very stupid.

In short, the struggle between "good movie" and "bad movie" is more apparent here than internal struggle that was emphasized in the ads. But don't let that get you down too much. The movie's bad moments are not even close to the franchise-destroying atrocities that the X-Men series has run into. But please Sony, just one villain next time. And as easy as it would be to go with the Lizard/Carnage angle now that Connors has the symbiote... it really needs to be Mysterio. Please

**AceOfKnaves** · 05-04-2007, 08:09 AM

For those of you that enjoy seeing our friendly neighborhood Spider-Man through the eyes of 'Evil Dead' Director, Sam Raimi, I suspect you might also find amusement or quality in this latest piece in the Parker Saga.

For those of you that enjoy the essence of the true comic book Spider-Man, I urge you to steer clear of this film. For health reasons, if nothing else.

Below I list my likes and dislikes of this movie, so, as one can expect, spoilers can be found within the text. Don't read on if you still are wishing to see this movie, and want to be surprised.

I'll start with my likes, because they are so few and far between that they are easier to write about.

Stan Lee - As usual, The Man gives us a true gem that stands out above others.

Bruce Campbell - Awesomely funny, even with the faulty french accent. In fact I'd have to say it was that in itself that made his scene well worth watching. Though I would suspect that a fan would have to be restraining order/stalker quality in love with him to willingly sit through that entire movie just to see his bit.

Aunt May - I will never have a bad word to say about that woman. She has, and always will be a beautiful rendition of a well cherished comic book mother figure.

Thomas Hayden Church - No no, don't be confused by his name on this list. I respected him as an actor, and the effort he must have put into gaining that weight. But that is all. I will cover Sandman in the dislikes...

James Franco - Now, this covers both Harry, and the actor that portrays him. I was horrified by the use, or lack there of, in the main storyline, but James Franco is, and will always be, an amazing actor. Despite everything else around him crumbling down into piles of what can only be called the tattered remains of whatever comic book ties these films had...he managed to hook me. His final scenes were masterful, and full of the emotion that this movie was lacking. On a sidenote, his scene in the cafe with Peter? Priceless, wholesome, bad guy fun.

Spider-Man - .......For the first half hour....if that....

Topher Grace - He was amusing, snarky, and took being a punching bag for fueled hatred in stride. Of course the hatred I'm speaking of is not from Spider-Man, but that of it's director, who has, on many occasion, openly admitted his distain for said villain.

Now...for the dislikes...

It is exceedingly difficult to actually break down the things that bothered me about this film into a well thought out list. But I'll do the best I can to express my opinion in an open, genuine way.

Spider-Man - Oh where, oh where has my Spider-Man gone? Oh where, oh where can he be? This might read like a joke, but I assure you, I'm not kidding. Not only was Peter Parker written so awkwardly, and off kilter that more than once, you had to remind yourself he was the same guy from the first two movies...but someone made the executive decision that he should dominate practically the entire movie.

Emo Spider-Man - I will admit that there were times that his characterization was dead on accurate, mostly in lines given, not in actions taken...but there was far too much effort put into making him into a literal dancing baffoon, than emphasizing that the good natured Peter Parker has been taken over by a living, purly evil entity. We all know the creature's true eyes were set on broadway. Why else come to New York City?

Sandman - The simple question I would like to ask here is...why? Not only was his origin not anywhere near what it was originally meant to be - which I could have forgiven if Raimi hadn't already made every other enemy in this series sympathetic - but making him the actual killer of Uncle Ben? Not only was that a cheap attempt at adding substance to a storyling that was already buckling under the weight of one too many subplots, but was also something that, I felt, completely alienated fans of both Spider-Man mediums. Film and Comic alike. We all understood that Sandman was Sam Raimi's favourite villain, for one of many reasons, but given that fact, I had truthfully expected more than what spewed from the screen in front of me.

Harry - This one's a tough one, because he was honestly the only character I really connected with through the entire thing. To put it as simply as possible? He was jipped. This vein of story had so much potential, that of which, I think ALL fans where itching to see. The great Harry and Peter face off...was short. To the point. And so lack luster it left a bad taste in my mouth. How can they allow this character's life to end in a film that spat on the true dramatic tension that had been building since the first Spider-Man movie? I know this is just my personal opinion, but we could have used a lot more Harry, and a lot less Sandman.

Venom/Eddie Brock - For the fans that have seen this movie already, me expressing my disgust at his death should not shock you. I had heard that Venom was to be destroyed, but what I had not heard was that they were going to kill off Eddie was well. Shattering all chances for a possible reappearance that might have allowed a more faithful, and creative representation of this popular Spider-Man villain. As I'd said above, I was already well aware that Raimi HATED this character, and had also heard that Venom was only in about twenty minutes worth of the film. That...was false. It was less. And I could not be more irritated. Eddie Brock himself was not that bad, I will admit. But from the moment the symbiote touched his skin, he was no longer what I'd remembered. Barring his physical appearance...and not being picky about the tongue...he was one of the worst things about this movie. And I'm fairly convinced it was intentional. Even if you'd like to ignore the fact that Venom kept peeling back the mask, and showing Eddie's face...even if you'd like to look over the fact that he didn't speak in plural form, as he always has...even IF you don't care about the fact that his voice was simply Topher Grace's...no one can deny that this character was underdeveloped, barely explained, and was hardly as threatening as he should have been. Not only did they ignore everything that makes Venom what he is, but they destroyed Brock as well. Out of all the Classic Villains that Sam Raimi has tried to make us feel bad for...the one that is ACTUALLY tragic? He repeatedly says that he loves the suit, that he likes being bad, that he wants Peter to die...the last of which he says before he even IS Venom. As odd as it might sound, considering my interest in this particular baddie? I truly wish Venom was not in this movie. It would have appeased to those that never wanted to see him in live action, and to those that had been itching for it all these years. Trust me, after seeing this movie, you'll wish someone else had handled his creation.

The Score - I won't say that the music was BAD...though I did find it a wee bit too comical in certain situations. My biggest issue with it was simply...it was too overpowering, and in many ways, distracting.

The Cinematography - Now, I know that not everyone cares about the technical aspects of the film, but the cheesy, B-horror movie shots were out in force during this one. They were at times, like the music, distracting.

Harry's Butler - I don't normally come right out and say I hate a scene, as I can usually find at least one good thing within it. Even if it is only something technical...but Harry's Butler convincing him that Norman killed himself, and that Peter is actually his friend? So 80's soap opera that I actually uttered, "Oh my God." as the old man was speaking his lines. Something I was not aware of, was that butlers must attend some kind of medical schooling, or CSI training before they go into service. As Norman's butler was able to identify that the wounds in his gut were from his own glider. So he OBVIOUSLY killed himself. Wow, phew. And here I thought Harry and Peter might do something really stupid before someone said that...oh wait...

Gwen Stacy - And her father? Waste of space. Useless. Not saying that they couldn't have been worth their casting...as both choices were very accurate, or at least intelligent. It was just...they did nothing with them that was worth seeing. It's been said to me, and I agree, that the Stacys' should have been in the second movie, given the history with Doc Ock.

J.J. Jameson - As with Spider-Man, we did not see enough of this character. At least in the first two, he had worth while appearances. This movie would not really have changed either which way if he wasn't there. And that is the sole reason that he is placed on this side of this list.

M.J. Watson - Aside from her anger at Peter for kissing Gwen Stacy...before he's even black suited Spider-Man...I did not agree with this character at all. She was even more selfish, and grating in this one than the last two put together. I will say that she has a better singing voice than I would have imagined. Though I'll say as far as sitting through that movie again? She was good...but not THAT good.

Spider-Man and the American Flag - Cheap tactic. Poor placement. I'm mildly offended. I know Spider-Man, as well as many other Superheroes, support our country...but as I said...it was just way too tacky.

Yes, I promise this thing has an end, and I'm sorry I've gone on as long as I have...it's just...I have this opinion - and this is about ALL comic book movies - that if you don't like where it came from, you shouldn't attach yourself to the project. Sort of like that old saying...if you don't have anything nice to say...
The first movie was a good version of what Spider-Man could be, and while it wasn't 100% comic book accurate, it still was fabulous. Because it was a well fleshed out story, with characters that were heading down paths that seemed optimistic...heroic...intriguing...

Well, this is one fan who is sincerely dissappointed in where these films have wound up. To me...this was not Spider-Man.

~Selena Kyle~

**Sketch** · 05-04-2007, 08:09 AM

Carnage shouldn't show up yet. The Lizard and Mysterio could make for a great movie. Or perhaps Scorpion and Mysterio. Or well.. anyone and Mysterio.

Perhaps multiple villians isn't the route Spider-Man should go. Spider-Man 1 and 2 didn't have multiple villians and I think that may have helped them be better movies. None of the less I think I like Spider-Man 3 best of them. It wasn't the best written but the overall package was wonderful.

As I mentioned in my previous post. Most of the notable rogues gallery have been used in the movie based games and/or in the MTV show. I guess you could write all those off but then again... Mysterio was quite a worthy opponent in Spider-Man 2 the game.

**Xurk** · 05-04-2007, 09:41 AM

Finally, I get to discuss this movie on ToonZone, admist the true Spider-Man fans

I've been discussing it on a Dutch message board for the past three days, as it premiered here on May 1st, and instead of going through the trouble of jotting down all my thoughts again, I'll copy-paste some of my thoughts from the other message board [translated, of course

], so my apologies if it seems a little incoherent in its entirety:

---------------

I loved this movie! There are some slightly negative comments from me as well though, a few are:
- I felt like there wasn't enough Spider-Man in costume, Peter Parker really dominated the movie. If I recall correctly, Spider-Man actually IN costume didn't appear until well over a half-hour into the movie, and even after that, the Peter Parker moments easily outweighed the Spidey moments
- at the beginning of the movie, everything was moving awfully fast, and all at the same time
- they stuffed the ending a bit too much with all the sentimental moments, they almost overdid it there

But even though almost all of the movie's plot threads were introduced simultaneously at the beginning of the movie, I didn't mind it that much, as in doing that, they had gotten it over and done with [not saying it isn't a sloppy way of doing that], so that the rest of the movie could continue smoothly without having to worry about how certain threads should be worked in. I feel that they've managed to deal pretty well with the overkill of characters in it, seeing as for no moment I had the feeling that it was all "too much". As I stated earlier in this paragraph though, as a result of the movie being so full, some things were dealt with rather silly, such as how the Venom symbiote arrived on Earth and immediately decided to chase after Peter [wow, that sure IS a coincidence!]...

As for the action scenes, every single one of them were downright amazing, spectacular and heck, sensational

Sandman and Venom are just beautiful to look at on the big screen! That's especially regarding Sandman, with Venom I got the idea that they filmed all of the close-up shots with Eddie Brock's face poking out to save on animation costs. When Venom was showed close-up, we hardly ever get to see Venom's face clearly, whilst whenever Venom is showed from afar [and thus 100% CGI shots - cheaper?], the symbiote is completely shown.
Anyway, I wasn't expecting such a good rendition [visually] of Venom, so that was cool

I loved the references here and there to the comic book and continuity:
- Harry being evil for a wihle, ultimately returning to the good side and helping Peter, but paying for his redemption with death [Spectacular Spider-Man #200]
- Having Peter get the symbiote researched and the results that gave [but a pity that it couldn't be Reed Richards, like in the comic book, but I guess that has something to do with the rights to the FF movies and also that Doc Connors was already in the previous movies and probably being set up for eventual future movies as the Lizard]
- The Venom symbiote not being able to cope with loud noises
- Peter accidentally striking MJ in a fit of rage [Spectacular Spider-Man #226]
- Peter waking up with the symbiote on, hanging upside down looking at his reflection in a building window [Spider-MAN: TAS]

Of course, there were many things which deviated from the source material, but I try not to let it get to me too much, the movies just don't have enough time to do literal translations of the comic books [I know Sin City did it, but the Spider-Man movies always feature storylines which are probably 100 issues of the comic squeezed together in one movie], even though this one was nice and long, and I don't think the movies would be as much fun if they were, as then they would become far too predictable for the real fans. As long as they don't abuse the original stories too much by unnecessarily altering elements and wrecking stories by altering too much, I'm okay with this.
It was a shame that Gwen Stacy, who was so important in the comics, has such an insignificant role in the movie of beautiful woman serving to make MJ jealous. I was expecting her father [Captain Stacy] to be killed in the scene which had the out-of-control crane, causing Gwen to hate Spider-Man [exactly, just like in the funnies!], but it turned out to be the exact opposite

We have to admit it's been about thirty years since Gwen was a prominent figure in the comics, so I'm guessing she was solely in this to please the fanboys. Probably another reason why they chose to use Mary Jane as Peter's love interest from the beginning, as everyone knows that Spider-Man is married to her, making the movie franchise more recognisable for the current generation.

The recurring cameos:
- Stan Lee with one of the best lines of the movie, that was great!
- Bruce Campbell was hi-la-ri-ous as the French waiter! [made reading Marvel Zombies VS Army of Darkness yesterday a little bit different than usual

]

As for comedy, that aspect was well represented once again, lots of funny jokes and funny situations, even though Spidey hardly made any jokes in the action scenes, if I recall correctly. But well, i guess that can be exonerated by the creators with the excuse that Spider-Man is supposed to be evil in this movie while he is in costume.
I also really loved the scene with Emo-Peter going all Saturday Night Fever [or something to that extent] in the streets of New York, while all the ladies are looking at him in shock / disgust... his little moves after he purchases his pimp suit

The scene following that, in the jazz club, even though a bit reminiscent of The Mask, was interesting to watch, I thought it had some good direction in it.
J.K. Simmons is priceless in every scene featuring him as JJJ! He is always so funny in every single Spider-Man movie, it's so hard to believe he played über-Nazi in the HBO series OZ [which I love]... come Spider-Man 1, I was really shocked to see him as JJJ.

I'd also like to point out how Bryce Dallas Howard stole virtually every single scene she was in with her beauty, wow, she is simply a goddess in this movie! Below I have posted a few images of her from the movie to illustrate my point; it's too bad the movie has only just premiered, making the available screen stills from it very limited. I'd especially like to see images of her from the jazz club scene

In reality Bryce Dallas Howard is a redhead [and for some reason beyond me, way less pretty to me], making it hard to find any blond pictures of her besides from those from Spider-Man 3.
It's funny how MJ is played by a blondine [Kirsten Dunst] and Gwen Stacy is played by a redhead...

I am curious if the black webbing featured in the movie while Peter Parker is still wearing the symbiote, are actually parts of the symbiote [like in the comics], or just the organic webbing of Spider-Man, coloured black in some way.
I've seen a lot of people complaining about Venom, but I think they've actually done the best they could with him: he was scary, strong and looked great! Contrary to other's opinions, I'm glad they left out the twenty-yard-long tongue and drool, and quotes such as: "We're going to eat your brains / suck the marrow from your spine", even though it was too bad Venom never referred to himself in the third person.
In the end, the only reason Raimi included Venom in the movie is because Arad kept on at him about how "the fans want to see Venom, he's the most popular Spidey villain ever!". Raimi himself cares more for the classics and knows them through and through, which is the reason when those tales have the focus in one of the movies, they are the best.
Some more on Venom's tongue, that's alway been pretty funny; in the comic Venom's appearance started out pretty normal but intimidating [click, click and click, but eventually he started to exist almost solely out of tongue and drool [click, click and click, Google wouldn't find me any better examples, but I know they exist], which I think is pretty dumb. But as that's how he's portrayed nowadays, it's become the general public's perception of him, explaining why so many are disappointed he doesn't appear this way in the movie.

Now, there are already rumours circling about a Spider-Man 4 movie and I've seen fans going on about what they want to see in it, the majority wants to see Carnage or the Clone Saga featured, but I strongly disagree. Those kind of things are just too B-movie to put in the Spider-Man movies IMO, even though the Clone Saga is what ultimately reeled me into the Spider-Man universe permanently way back when [I loved them at the time, but revisiting the issues now makes my toes curl], a movie with those storylines would need a miracle not to flop. Most of the Carnage-lovers love him because he's so crazy, but that there is the gimmick of Carnage, in actual terms of storytelling, hardly anything noteworthy is ever done with him [and I don't mean never, there are some real good Carnage stories out there].
I think the movies should stick to the classic Lee / Ditko era villains, those stories are still regarded as among the best Spider-Man stories ever told, with a reason.

According to some news on the future of the Spider-Man movies, which seems pretty reliable:

Spoiler:

---------------

Well, that concludes my comments for the moment, sorry this post was so long!

**Spider-Man** · 05-04-2007, 09:51 AM

Like alot of people I saw the movie last night and really enjoyed it. It's not perfect but I thought it was great. I plan to see it again this weekend before I can really lay my thoughts down on it. I know alot of people will be comparing it to the previous films so I am curious to se ehow they think it holds up and if it is a fitting way to basically wrap up (the first) Spider-Man movie trilogy. There are a couple problems with the film but I want to watch it at least one more time in theatres before putting my thoughts down in stone.