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  1. #21
    TimTwoFace's Avatar
    TimTwoFace is offline Mod, and Minotaur Bait
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    Wow Style, that was a huge walk down memory lane; I remember being there for ALL of that.

    You forgot those pesky BATMAN BEYOND rumours with Nick Cage, though. He would've been an interesting Blight.

    As for the original Batman 5 idea - that does sound like a good movie, and it would've been an interesting turn for the franchise - and a cool way to work around the Joker's death. It definitely had potential; too bad that isn't the movie Schumacher and the WB wanted from the get-go.

    It's still such a shame, though; BATMAN & ROBIN, if you took Bane and Batgirl out of it, had so much potential. All you had to do was tone down the neon a smidge, eliminate those excess characters, and rewrite the dialogue, and we could've actually had something cool.

    -Tim
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  2. #22
    Eddie G. is offline Former Wolf/Writer.
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    The plot for Batman 5 sounds like the worst plot for a Batman movie ever and shows that Batman & Robin didn't suck because it was light hearted but because the creative team was horrible.

  3. #23
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    Another movie that was being considered was DKR, with Clint Eastwood playing Batman. I'm not sure if it was true or not, but it seems to be a credible rumor.

  4. #24
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    Silly McGooses is offline Senior Member
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    I heard about that, too. That would have been awesome.
    "If we listened to our intellect, we'd never have a love affair. We'd never have a friendship. We'd never go into business, because we'd be cynical. Well, that's nonsense. You've got to jump off cliffs all the time and build your wings on the way down. "
    --Ray Bradbury

  5. #25
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    I would've prefered if Tim Burton and Michael Keaton did the movie instead. From what I've heard, they loved DKR and really wanted to do an adaptation. I would kill just to see Michael Keaton as Batman again.

  6. #26
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    Simpler Simon is offline Always in Style
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    I remember that Batman Triumphant stuff...me and several other internet noobs back then started writing our own versions of Batman 5 and passing them around to each other....none of us got it right.

    Schumachers done good stuff outside of the Bat franchise, but that screwups gonna haunt him for the rest of his career.
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  7. #27
    Silly McGooses's Avatar
    Silly McGooses is offline Senior Member
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    the funny thing is, at the time, it wasn't even that big a disaster. it made real money. and schumacher actually apologized. it takes guts for a filmaker to actually APOLOGIZE for a mistake they made. i think it's ALMOST a shame he didn't get to try his hand at a more serious one. I think Triumphant could have been really cool.

    Now, i agree with Gaunt if they had made DKR, it would have had to be Keaton/Burton, though Clint Eastwood would make a pretty cool tough old Batman.
    "If we listened to our intellect, we'd never have a love affair. We'd never have a friendship. We'd never go into business, because we'd be cynical. Well, that's nonsense. You've got to jump off cliffs all the time and build your wings on the way down. "
    --Ray Bradbury

  8. #28
    Gaunt's Avatar
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    the funny thing is, at the time, it wasn't even that big a disaster. it made real money. and schumacher actually apologized. it takes guts for a filmaker to actually APOLOGIZE for a mistake they made. i think it's ALMOST a shame he didn't get to try his hand at a more serious one. I think Triumphant could have been really cool.

    Now, i agree with Gaunt if they had made DKR, it would have had to be Keaton/Burton, though Clint Eastwood would make a pretty cool tough old Batman.
    I don't know what to think in regards to Schumacher. On one hand, he really did want to redeem himself, and I don't doubt that he could. It's also likely that the WB order too much "Light Knight" and got what they deserved. On the other hand, Schumacher could've deleted some of the campy scenes and things that plagued Batman and Robin.

    Clint Eastwood could've been a good Dark Knight, in the style of Dirty Harry. But again, Keaton/Burton would have to do it.

  9. #29
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    Michael24 is online now Moderator
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    Didn't Michael Keaton once said he would like to Batman again, but only if Tim Burton was directing?
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  10. #30
    DR.MID-NITE's Avatar
    DR.MID-NITE is offline The Original
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimTwoFace

    I wouldn't mind Adam West in a BATMAN movie...as long as he wasn't there, out of place, just to be a nod to the fans. The man can actually act - especially if he's given a totally different role than what he's known for. He'd be a good mayoral figure, for example - just like he is on THE BATMAN animated series...and...FAMILY GUY, for that matter.


    -Tim
    Actually, this was done in the Animated series. In the episode "Beware the Grey Ghost". A criminal is patterning his crimes on episodes of an old tv show about a hero named The Grey Ghost". Looking to find out what will be the next crime and since all tapes of the show were destroyed in a fire. Batman goes to the actor who portrayed the Grey Ghost(Adam West). He is living in poverty selling his Ghost props to survive. And bitter that he was typecast.

  11. #31
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    Harley_Quinn is offline Honey, get mommy’s bazooka
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebrain2.0
    Maybe "Triumphant" would also give Schumacher some fan respect, since it sounds very dark (Robin killed off)
    I was thinking the same thing but it'll go on with the other tons of flicks that never got made.
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  12. #32
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    Silly McGooses is offline Senior Member
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    Here'a a very interesting article about what happened with Batman Returns in theatres after it came out and you can see the seeds of campiness being planted. you can definitely see why the franchise took the turn it did from reading this:
    http://www.ew.com/ew/report/0,6115,311258_7_0_,00.html
    "If we listened to our intellect, we'd never have a love affair. We'd never have a friendship. We'd never go into business, because we'd be cynical. Well, that's nonsense. You've got to jump off cliffs all the time and build your wings on the way down. "
    --Ray Bradbury

  13. #33
    TimTwoFace's Avatar
    TimTwoFace is offline Mod, and Minotaur Bait
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.MID-NITE
    Actually, this was done in the Animated series. In the episode "Beware the Grey Ghost". A criminal is patterning his crimes on episodes of an old tv show about a hero named The Grey Ghost". Looking to find out what will be the next crime and since all tapes of the show were destroyed in a fire. Batman goes to the actor who portrayed the Grey Ghost(Adam West). He is living in poverty selling his Ghost props to survive. And bitter that he was typecast.
    That's the exact episode I was referring to. West did a great job in that episode - I wonder why they never brought the character back. I guess they just didn't have the right story - and you can't have West back on the show "just because", otherwise the specialty of his original appearance would disappear.

    Either way, I'd love to see West take on a role in a future film; the more I think about it, the more I'm growing to like my Matt Hagen/Clayface idea...

    -Tim
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  14. #34
    Spongebrain2.0 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimTwoFace
    That's the exact episode I was referring to. West did a great job in that episode - I wonder why they never brought the character back. I guess they just didn't have the right story - and you can't have West back on the show "just because", otherwise the specialty of his original appearance would disappear.

    Either way, I'd love to see West take on a role in a future film; the more I think about it, the more I'm growing to like my Matt Hagen/Clayface idea...

    -Tim
    Yeah, that sounds pretty good
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  15. #35
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    I agree. I think that would be a pretty cool idea to have Adam West play Matt Hagan. He'd obviously be older than Hagan usually is, but what the heck? It'd be cool.
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  16. #36
    Michael24's Avatar
    Michael24 is online now Moderator
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    Since this thread is talking about the BATMAN films that could have been, I thought I'd post this here, especially since I didn't want to create yet another Batman thread.

    Anyway, this was an article that appeared in Wizard Magazine #11 back in the early-90s. The article was talking about the soon-to-be-released BATMAN RETURNS, but featured a summary of the original Tim Burton/Julie Hickson treatment, and I thought you all would be interesting in seeing what they originally had planned . . . and just what a disaster of a movie it could have been.

    By Andy Mangels - Wizard #11, July 1992
    Now, to the real subject of the column. The BATMAN that almost was and may yet be . . . Tim Burton's original idea for his BATMAN film. Burton was unhappy with Sam Hamm's script for BATMAN II, and brought in Dan Waters and Wesley Strick to start anew. But, as you'll see, the tone and style of BATMAN RETURNS may have some resemblances to the following . . . written seven years ago by the Burton meister himself! Written by TIM BURTON and JULIE HICKSON—October 21, 1985.

    Although this is only 43 pages long, it seemed much longer. With three acts, all overly full of batdoings, this plot by BATMAN director Tim Burton with co-scribe Julie Hickson could well have been several movies . . . if it wasn't so stupid, contrived, and, well, comic-booky in the worst sense of the phrase.

    Bat-historians will note that this Treatment/Outline was turned in in 1985, quite a bit after the Tom Mankiewicz script, but well before Sam Hamm's script. This outline is an odd mixture of scene descriptions, dialogue, camera angles, and plot synopsis. Reading it, one feels very much as if it were written by four different people, in four different styles.

    Act One, entitled "Loss," begins with a full-screen shot of the Joker laughing, before fading to Gotham City: "a little New York, a little Max Fleisher, a lot of Fritz Lang's METROPOLIS." With aerial tramways and blimps, it sounds more like WATCHMEN combined with METROPOLIS than anything else. As we switch to Gotham Municipal Courthouse, Thomas Wayne, counsel for the Subcommittee on Investigation into Racketeering, rails on against mob boss Rupert Thorne. We cut to the Waynes at home that evening, preparing for a costume party after an evening trip to the Gotham Opera's DER FLEDERMAUS ("The Bat-Man"). Thomas, of course, wears a "majestic bat costume," while Martha is a "delicately shimmering fairy queen" and young Bruce is a "small whirling harlequin."

    Walking home from the party, while "our hearts are melting for the uniquely harmonious family, the unthinkable happens." A Mr. Softee ice cream truck glides around the corner, and to the "insipid tinkling style music," the Waynes are gunned down. As Bruce lets loose with an "eerie, guttural, animal-like screaming of a boy in unthinkable pain," he manages to see the murderer in the truck: a 17-year-old boy with green hair, white skin, and a red-lipped smile!

    As the police show up, Alfred Pennyworth vows to Bruce that "as long as I live, you will never be alone." Days later at the funeral, Bruce makes a solemn vow to avenge his parents' death and declare war on crime.

    Act Two is called "Preparation-Transformation," and in it, Bruce trains to become Batman. He continues collecting information about Rupert Thorne, who he is sure ordered his parents' death, and grows ever closer to Commissioner Gordon. Years later, a newspaper headline screams out "Joker Escapes Prison! Vows Revenge Against Mayor Rupert Thorne." That day, the Joker begins a "carefully masterminded reign of terror in Gotham City," which includes releasing animals from the zoo, preempting TV broadcasts, painting all the windows of Gotham's skyscrapers black, and making the subways run backwards! When the Joker pre-empts himself into the LOVE BOAT (with guest stars Tom Bosley, Cloris Leachman, and Andy Warhol), Bruce begins to take notice. Bruce goes to his room, dons his Batman suit for the first time, and slips out a window. "The Princess of Darkness is Born!"

    In Gotham Square, the Joker is busy launching the city's Christmas tree into space, Batman shows up and they start to duel on the ice-skating rink—"punctuated by all the requisite silliness of pratfalls." The Joker gets away now, able to carry out more pranks against Gotham, including painting the entire city candy-striped colors, coercing union leaders to call strikes throughout the city, and setting of bombs. Bruce cannot track the maniac down until Joker sets off fireworks at a performance of the MIDSUMMER NIGHT'S DREAM. There, Bruce saves the life of singer Silver St. John, who is portraying Titania, the Fairy Queen.

    While Bruce is spending the night with Silver, as the Joker plans to mock-elect himself Mayor and throw a parade at which several balloons will carry his special "Grimacing Gas." After the Joker uses the gas on performers at a comedy club, Commissioner Gordon establishes the Bat-Signal to contact Batman, who he's now asked to help out on the case. The Joker strikes next at a charity circus where Bruce and Silver are in attendance. There, in disguises are the Penguin as the ringmaster, the Riddler as a clown, and the Catwoman as a trapeze artist. When Catwoman pours acid on the trapeze of the Flying Graysons ("the main attractions"), John and Mary fall to their deaths, while young Dick miraculously survives.

    Running to the sobbing Grayson's side, Bruce scoops him up and carries him to his car, promising him that "As long as I live, you will never be alone." Sound familiar?

    Finally, in Act Three's "Retribution—Family," Bruce adopts Dick, the Joker dresses as the Mad Hatter and is "interviewed" by Barbara Walters (whom he's holding at gunpoint.) The Joker kills Rupert Thorne in a "mayoral" debate, then throws a parade on Christmas Eve, where "the Jokerian humor, election eve has been designed to coincide with . . ." When Bruce looks closer at the parade, he realizes that Joker's hoods are wearing gas masks underneath their Mardi Gras masks. Bruce also realizes that the huge parade balloons are filled with the "deadly Grimacing Gas." A confrontation soon ensues, where the Joker and Batman are both carried aloft by the helium balloons.

    When they both crash through the skylight of the Gotham City Natural History Museum, it's up to the new hero, Robin, to save Batman's life. When Batman throttles the Joker and puts a gun to his head, Commissioner Gordon arrives and puts an end to the potentially ugly scene.

    The movie ends as Bruce, Silver, Dick, and Alfred open presents on Christmas Day. Reaching for the last present under the tree, Bruce is shocked to see that it is wrapped in purple and green, with a clownish Jack-in-the-box face on it. As the screen fades to black, the laughing face of the Joker appears again.

    The article continues for another page, basically just dissecting the treatment and talking about how awful and convoluted it was, and some of the similarities to what we saw in the finished film. To me, it sounds like an extended episode of the Adam West series.
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  17. #37
    Silly McGooses's Avatar
    Silly McGooses is offline Senior Member
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    wow, that does sound pretty awful!
    "If we listened to our intellect, we'd never have a love affair. We'd never have a friendship. We'd never go into business, because we'd be cynical. Well, that's nonsense. You've got to jump off cliffs all the time and build your wings on the way down. "
    --Ray Bradbury

  18. #38
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    Michael24 is online now Moderator
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    Yeah, I know. The rest of the article mentions how it appears the villains were around for awhile before Bruce even became Batman, and how Penguin, Riddler, and Catwoman just show up out for nowhere for one sequence and then disappear again.

    On a related note: Marlon Wayans(!) was cast to play Robin in BATMAN RETURNS and even went through a costume fitting before the character was cut from the film at the last minute. Kenner even made a Robin figure based on him, which was then redone and released for the comic book version of Robin.
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  19. #39
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    GrayGhost is offline The Return
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    Marlon Wayans was actually paid for the role of Robin in both Returns and Forever.
    There's a light in the distance...

  20. #40
    Michael24's Avatar
    Michael24 is online now Moderator
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    Yeah, I forgot to include that in my last post. I can't even imagine what it would have been like with him as Robin.
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