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  1. #1
    ThomaDench is offline Newbie
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    The third golden age of Disney

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    Back in the 90s when people went to watch the Disney animated movies from that time, they thought the older Disney movies were the classics, and probably didn't even consider a movie they were going to see in the theaters a classic, or at that time, future classic. Now (modern age), the same thing might be happening. We go to the movie theater to watch movies such as Tangled, Wreck It Ralph, and more recently, Frozen (Frozen - Pastime Show - YouTube). However, these films are just as good as the older ones, but they're also very recent. Do you think we're living in the third golden age of Disney Animation? Do you think in 20 or 30 years we'll remember movies like these as classics?

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    SaneMan is offline Senior Member
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    personally, I actually like Wreck-It Ralph and Frozen MORE than the Disney Renaissance films, which may seem strange, seeing how I'm otherwise a huge supported of 2D animation

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    Monte's Avatar
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    I like to think so... I mean things slacked off in the 2000's enough to say that the Renaissance came to and end, thus the next set of good films would be the beginning of a name age. First we got the classical era which started with Snow White, then the Renaissance which started with the little mermaid, and now a new era starting with Tangled.

    Thinking about it, I like the sound of "the Disney enlightenment"... Though maybe just the Second Disney Reaissance... Save the enlightenment title for the age when Disney remembers they can make brilliant films with 2D animation and thus don't abandon an art form just because they think the 3D style is the reason why they have found recent success. They seemed to give up after Princess and the frog did not meet their high expectations, and do not care to try again.
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    CoolEric158 is offline Sibling Rivalry
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    In many ways, I'd say we were in a Renaissance for Disney since 2008. Before, from 2000-2007, Disney started avoiding the musical format that plagued their later releases with mediocre box office compared to their predecessors, but because of this, films like Emperor's New Groove, Atlantis, Treasure Planet, Home on the Range, Chicken Little, and Meet the Robinsons were all financial failures, with some of them not even critical successes; yes, there were fans, but they weren't as rabid as say, The Lion King, all the while Pixar and Dreamworks started to succeed with their critical darlings, and worldwide recognition.

    Much like before, the Renaissance came at a time post Jungle Book where after Walt's death, films were coming out with few successes, none of them reaching Snow White status, with Black Cauldron almost shutting down the company, until Great Mouse Detective thankfully broke even. Now the comparison begins:

    2008's Bolt is 1988's Oliver and Company; both were mild successes in the box office, and while both have given decent reviews, neither are considered true Walt Disney classics.

    2009's Princess and the Frog is 1989's The Little Mermaid; both were intended to help give life to a company that lost what made them successful, and both were very successful with critics, and did decently at the box office.

    2010's Tangled is 1991's Beauty and the Beast; both were considered superior to their predecessors as the movies before them were stepping stones and used to improve upon future works. Both were critical darlings, and were huge hits.

    2011's Winnie the Pooh is 1990's Rescuers Down Under; both were successors to movies released in the 1970s, and both were huge disappointments.

    2012's Wreck-It Ralph is 1992's Aladdin; there aren't similarities in box office, but both were critical hits, and both relied on references and pop culture as their main source of humor.

    And finally, 2013's Frozen is 1994's The Lion King; both were monsters in the box office and were considered the best of the best, and are some of the highest-grossing films in animation.

    Now, will Big Hero 6 be Pocahontas and hit the company again?
    Thinking of something to write down.

  5. #5
    Dr.Pepper's Avatar
    Dr.Pepper is online now Senior Member
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    I say that they are in another golden age. IMO it started with Princess and the Frog, with Bolt being a step in the right direction.
    Quote Originally Posted by CoolEric158 View Post
    Now, will Big Hero 6 be Pocahontas and hit the company again?
    I have noticed parallels between the '90's movies and the movies of today. I would not be surprised that it performs similarly/has physical similarities to Pocahontas. Even if it performs like Pocohantas it will still be a big hit. Adjusted for inflation that movie still made over $200 million.
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    The ShopSoldier's Avatar
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    I haven't seen Wreck It Ralph (Not my cup of tea) but I know it's good. As for examples like Bolt, Tangled, Princess and The Frog, and Frozen - yeah. For me, all those examples were better and have much more relatability (even if just to me) than anything Disney put out in the past, IMHO - even if the past had the better animation and art-style usage (but not by much, if at all - only because Disney has proven with Pixar and as of late that CGI can be a tool for good!).

    As for a third golden age - IMHO, let's not jump to conclusions, if that's alright.
    Tropes that are ruining Western/European Animation (and any animes involving school):
    Spoiler:
    1. Twins and/or Rich Kids as antagonists; Bullies in general. 2. Annoying jerk sibling characters and/or General sibling characters who hate each others' guts. 3. Hidden Caucasian male dominance (usually subverted to be female in anime, which can be equally as bad – and a real turnoff in general!).

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    SaneMan is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoolEric158 View Post
    Now, will Big Hero 6 be Pocahontas and hit the company again?
    I hope not.

    At least Big Hero 6 won't be bastardizing history.

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    the_joker is offline Member Last Line Of Defense Champion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monte View Post
    Thinking about it, I like the sound of "the Disney enlightenment"... Though maybe just the Second Disney Reaissance... Save the enlightenment title for the age when Disney remembers they can make brilliant films with 2D animation and thus don't abandon an art form just because they think the 3D style is the reason why they have found recent success. They seemed to give up after Princess and the frog did not meet their high expectations, and do not care to try again.
    They did try again with Winnie the Pooh, but that didn't make much money either (even with a low budget) probably because it was released during the same day the final Harry Potter film came out, which is probably the reason why Winnie the Pooh wasn't a hit (and releasing it on that date was a pretty dumb move anyways). But I still hope that 2D animation will come back someday because I do like variety...

    Quote Originally Posted by CoolEric158 View Post
    Now, will Big Hero 6 be Pocahontas and hit the company again?
    Hopefully, that will still make plenty of money and be acclaimed. Even though Pocahontas wasn't liked much, the films released up until Tarzan still made money and had an overall positive reaction, so I don't think Pocahontas hurt the company too much. Though I'm still not quite sure why some of their movies released during most of the 2000s were lacking creatively, which may or may not be related to their financial success. Even if Big Hero 6 won't make as much as Frozen, I still hope it will be a success.

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    Monte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_joker View Post
    They did try again with Winnie the Pooh, but that didn't make much money either (even with a low budget) probably because it was released during the same day the final Harry Potter film came out, which is probably the reason why Winnie the Pooh wasn't a hit (and releasing it on that date was a pretty dumb move anyways). But I still hope that 2D animation will come back someday because I do like variety...
    I remembered Winnie the Pooh but I honestly have trouble counting it as "another try". I mean, i'm not even sure why Disney made it a theatrical release instead of just direct to video or something. Winnie the pooh may be a beloved, classic character, but i don't really think their is enough interest in Pooh for features... I feel like his appeal is for really young kids, where as other disney films appeal to audiences of all ages

    heck the tigger movie in 2000 was the most successful film since the original, but even that one didn't break $100 million. i mean if you look at the past couple of films, they had all be getting smaller and smaller returns; The last feature only made it to about $50 million. Is it really a surprised that it did not do well? This is unlike Disney big releases which are completely original, are written to appeal to a wide audience and have huge budgets; Feels like Disney puts in a lot more effort there. Not to mention that Winnie the pooh, and Disney's big releases go for different audiences. Really, given the waning track record for Pooh features it doesn't seem like Disney should have taken ANYTHING away from its poor performance (like the idea that 2D is dead). honestly, i find it confusing that Disney would put such high expectations on Pooh...


    The sad part is that Disney seems to be blaming their failures on the medium they chose rather than looking at the films themselves and how they were promoted to see what might have caused a lack of interest. Heck one thing they also should consider it how their standards have changed... Princess and the frog did just about as well as the little mermaid did, the little mermaid got both a sequel and a tv series and became the model Disney would follow through the 90's for its renaissance. But today, the standards are higher for what kind of profits and film should have. Even if Princess and the frog did not meet their high expectations it still brought in more than twice what it cost them to make the film... Even from a financial perspective its worth it for Disney to keep trying with 2D. 2D animated films cost less to make; if they could capture success with a 2D film they might make a bigger profit even if the film does not do as well in the box office as their CGI films.

  10. #10
    SaneMan is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_joker View Post
    Hopefully, that will still make plenty of money and be acclaimed. Even though Pocahontas wasn't liked much, the films released up until Tarzan still made money and had an overall positive reaction, so I don't think Pocahontas hurt the company too much. Though I'm still not quite sure why some of their movies released during most of the 2000s were lacking creatively, which may or may not be related to their financial success. Even if Big Hero 6 won't make as much as Frozen, I still hope it will be a success.
    There's also the fact that Pocahontas went-up against Toy Story that year

    what films is Big Hero 6 going up against?

  11. #11
    DarthGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaneMan View Post
    There's also the fact that Pocahontas went-up against Toy Story that year
    Pocahontas came out in June, Toy Story came out in November. The films didn't go up against each other in any way.

  12. #12
    Monte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthGonzo View Post
    Pocahontas came out in June, Toy Story came out in November. The films didn't go up against each other in any way.
    Not to mention that Pocahontas was financially very successful. I mean the only way you could say disney took a "hit" from it is in the realm of quality; and when debating quality, what other movies the film went up against is not all that relevant... Heck Pocahontas even won its fair share of awards. Really, its just not that popular of a film when compared to the other 90's films.
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    ILDC is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monte View Post
    I remembered Winnie the Pooh but I honestly have trouble counting it as "another try". I mean, i'm not even sure why Disney made it a theatrical release instead of just direct to video or something. Winnie the pooh may be a beloved, classic character, but i don't really think their is enough interest in Pooh for features... I feel like his appeal is for really young kids, where as other disney films appeal to audiences of all ages
    The movie was meant to be a throwback to the original shorts, animated by Disney's flagship studio. It has a more nostalgic, less pandering feel than the DisneyToon movies, the ads just didn't make that clear.

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    Ed Liu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILDC View Post
    The movie was meant to be a throwback to the original shorts, animated by Disney's flagship studio. It has a more nostalgic, less pandering feel than the DisneyToon movies, the ads just didn't make that clear.
    I think the ads made that perfectly clear, and I think that's the real reason why the movie didn't do well at the box office. This move and Princess and the Frog were both deliberate throwbacks to older eras, and in an age when the only way to see a Disney film would be to catch the newest release or wait for the next theatrical re-release, that approach might have worked. The era of home video means it's a losing strategy to give the audience something that not only looks the same, but makes that a major selling point. I don't know that there was a huge pent-up demand for new Winnie the Pooh material, and if there was but it was blunted by the last (very much aimed at an older audience) Harry Potter movie, I'd have expected incredibly powerful sales of the DVD. I think it sold well, but not phenomenally. The fact that it was hand drawn had little or nothing to do with the movie's disappointing box office. I think it was the wrong approach for the movie.

    Anyway, I'm more with CoolEric that Disney Feature's latest revival started with Bolt, and the movies have been getting better as they go (though I still haven't seen Frozen yet). Creatively, Disney has been putting out considerably better movies in the past 10 years than they did during the tail end of the Eisner era. I mentioned this in the DC forum in a different context, but I think it's important to distinguish between creative success and commercial success. Disney Feature Animation has been doing quite well creatively; the disappointing box office of Princess and the Frog and Winnie the Pooh said less about the quality of the movies and more about the audiences and what they wanted to see.
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    SaneMan is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Liu View Post
    I think the ads made that perfectly clear, and I think that's the real reason why the movie didn't do well at the box office. This move and Princess and the Frog were both deliberate throwbacks to older eras, and in an age when the only way to see a Disney film would be to catch the newest release or wait for the next theatrical re-release, that approach might have worked. The era of home video means it's a losing strategy to give the audience something that not only looks the same, but makes that a major selling point.

    The fact that it was hand drawn had little or nothing to do with the movie's disappointing box office.
    I do however believe that it did had a negative impact on hand-drawn movies, as they ended-up further re-enforcing the stereotype of all hand-drawn movies being for little kids

    (something I already said on a different thread)

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_joker View Post
    Hopefully, that will still make plenty of money and be acclaimed. Even though Pocahontas wasn't liked much, the films released up until Tarzan still made money and had an overall positive reaction, so I don't think Pocahontas hurt the company too much. Though I'm still not quite sure why some of their movies released during most of the 2000s were lacking creatively, which may or may not be related to their financial success. Even if Big Hero 6 won't make as much as Frozen, I still hope it will be a success.
    Disney's 2000s run consisted primarily of direct to DVD cheapquels/ sequels of their 90s movies. I have no idea why the company was on cinematic autopilot but I guess they were more concerned in trying to make some easy nostalgia money off of the names of previous releases (which is why they pushed the Disney Vault so much) although these sequels clearly didn't have the effort put into them that their predecessors did, coming off (and looking) more like TV shows instead of the movies that they were. You can consider most of last decade to be Disney's "Cash-in" Era.

    I will say that I did enjoy An Extremely Goofy Movie; it was their best direct to DVD movie IMO.

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    ILDC is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GPRailroad8794 View Post
    Disney's 2000s run consisted primarily of direct to DVD cheapquels/ sequels of their 90s movies. I have no idea why the company was on cinematic autopilot but I guess they were more concerned in trying to make some easy nostalgia money off of the names of previous releases (which is why they pushed the Disney Vault so much) although these sequels clearly didn't have the effort put into them that their predecessors did, coming off (and looking) more like TV shows instead of the movies that they were. You can consider most of last decade to be Disney's "Cash-in" Era.
    That was all before Eisner got kicked out of Disney and Lasseter officially joined.

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    will wander over yonder get a major feature film i hope so!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by classictoonami View Post
    will wander over yonder get a major feature film i hope so!!
    Maybe if it gets really popular, right now it's only mildly popular.

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