Whats Killing Disney: The Disney Vault

[Toon Master]

Ok over the past few years we have seen Disney go from hero to zero in PLENTY of ways regarding there animation department and how they process and release animated films and even have the guts to say none of them sell good. This argument from them seems to usually go with there classic animated movies to. Saying none of these sell good either. Well i got a question for them. How can you expect to have a DVD sell good if you have to wait YEARS AND YEARS for it to be back on the shelves and then by that time no one even knows its out cause they gave up looking for it years ago. Thats where the problem comes in and the problem is the god awful STUPID Disney Vault. There is absolutely NO REASON that all of these classic animated movies have to be crapped on constantly to make way for new Disney Channel Original Movie DVD releases THAT DONT SELL GOOD AT ALL. I mean seriously when i look for a DVD i head to the Disney section and what do i find? Shelves STOCKED full of High School Musical movies and Twitches 1 and 2. SERIOUSLY? Where's Pinnochio, Sleeping Beauty, and Dumbo? Oh yeah The Disney Vault. How long do i have to wait? Atleast 10 years after they were relased from the vault the last time (i think its 10 years). What?? Are YOU SERIOUS? 10 Years?? Give me a break. No wonder your movies dont sell good after the fact that there are HARDLY ANY MOVIES TO BUY FROM YOUR SELECTION THAT WOULD INTEREST THE PUBLIC EYE OTHER THEN LITTLE CHILDREN WHO HAVE NO CLUE WHAT HIGH SCHOOL OR COLLEGE IS REALLY ABOUT. Give me a break. This is a reason why you are falling Disney. No one can recognize you for what you did when you did it really good. Shame, damn shame.

Edit: It is a seven year span not ten years.

[The Nameless]

I thought they dispensed of the Disney Vault a few years ago.

[Antiyonder]

Shelves STOCKED full of High School Musical movies and Twitches 1 and 2. SERIOUSLY?

Let me ask you this. If you were one of the higher ups at the company, and you noticed that High School Musical was selling more than Sleeping Beauty, which product would you support more?

I don't care much for the tween products either, but they make money. And I'd be pretty critical if Disney was to cancel them for the products that don't make too much.

Fact is that if fans of a Disney Animation want Disney to take their animated properties more serious, then they need to be serious about supporting any products pertaining to Disney Animation (The DVDs and comics in this case). Give them a reason to believe that animation is a gold mine and they'll produce more of it.

This is a reason why you are falling Disney. No one can recognize you for what you did when you did it really good. Shame, damn shame.

They aren't even close to struggling financially.

[cognitofalcon]

What really irks me about this is that, ten year ago, we didn't seem to have this problem. They always had stocked shelves of their masterpieces. I recently stumbled upon a box filled with several of their most classic movies, the obvious ones that everyone sees when they are a kid and grow up with the memories from them like Beauty and the Beast, or Pinocchio, Bambi, Alice in Wonderland. All of them are surprisingly great quality considering they've been in an attic for atleast five or so years. I tried looking for alot of them on DVD, and guess what. They aren't available. It just makes absolutely no sense for me to have to wait for their next "special" release cause its walt's 150'th birthday or what ever. I want my kids to grow up seeing these classic movies, but i guess i'll have to make my own DVD transfers from the vhs. Guess i'll have to get a dazzle.

[Toon Master]

Let me ask you this. If you were one of the higher ups at the company, and you noticed that High School Musical was selling more than Sleeping Beauty, which product would you support more?

I don't care much for the tween products either, but they make money. And I'd be pretty critical if Disney was to cancel them for the products that don't make too much.

Fact is that if fans of a Disney Animation want Disney to take their animated properties more serious, then they need to be serious about supporting any products pertaining to Disney Animation (The DVDs and comics in this case). Give them a reason to believe that animation is a gold mine and they'll produce more of it.



They aren't even close to struggling financially.

Okay number 1. You have completely taken my post out of context. The post was to mention the fact that the Disney Vault is stupid. Even if the older movies dont sell good atleast give consumers a chance to purchase them on a regular basis and atleast show consumers YOU ARE TRYING to GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT. And if Disney has tons of money then why dont they throw out the releases of these films anyway. They are definetly not going to go bankrupt considering they have been in business since 1923 and are one of the biggest companies on Earth. So nothing is telling me they cant fund the releases of these movies and keep them on shelves.

Number 2. I dont care if there not close to struggling financially. I dont work within the company nor do i wish to BUT that is NO excuse to banish there older products, movies, and tv shows for eternity like they have been doing for the past few years now.

and last Number 3. Disney cancelling these products was not what i said either (by that i mean the teen and tween stuff). By all means if the comapny makes money on them produce them but DONT base an ENTIRE COMPANY on this when you have a HUGE backlog of animation to attend to also and half of which has been SITTING on shelves for the past decade.

[Antiyonder]

The first point I'll admit I miss read, but...

Number 2. I dont care if there not close to struggling financially. I dont work within the company nor do i wish to BUT that is NO excuse to banish there older products, movies, and tv shows for eternity like they have been doing for the past few years now.

It's not an excuse, but a valid reason. Their tween products sell like crazy, while their animated properties rarely sell.

Even then X-Men The Animated Series is has been released on DVD (by Disney) through five Volumes, proving that they will take an animated program seriously, if the customers make a serious effort to buy it.

and last Number 3. Disney cancelling these products was not what i said either (by that i mean the teen and tween stuff). By all means if the comapny makes money on them produce them but DONT base an ENTIRE COMPANY on this when you have a HUGE backlog of animation to attend to also and half of which has been SITTING on shelves for the past decade.

But the thing is they have tried to release their animated properties before. Their previous effort being the cartoons they had from the 90s. While sales for the earlier sets were sufficiently high, sales went down during the release of the later volumes.

And while it would be nice if they could complete the Disney Afternoon sets, they haven't been given a good reason to believe that the remaining volumes would be profitable.

[Toon Master]

The first point I'll admit I miss read, but...



It's not an excuse, but a valid reason. Their tween products sell like crazy, while their animated properties rarely sell.

Even then X-Men The Animated Series is has been released on DVD (by Disney) through five Volumes, proving that they will take an animated program seriously, if the customers make a serious effort to buy it.



But the thing is they have tried to release their animated properties before. Their previous effort being the cartoons they had from the 90s. While sales for the earlier sets were sufficiently high, sales went down during the release of the later volumes.

And while it would be nice if they could complete the Disney Afternoon sets, they haven't been given a good reason to believe that the remaining volumes would be profitable.

Ok. I will say a few more things. While your argument is strong there are still several things i want to point out.

1. It is practically Disney's fault that animated tv shows and movies are not selling well and that is because of there way of advertising them. I dont believe i even saw ONE ad for a Disney Afternoon DVD set when they were coming out at all.

2. X-Men the Animated Series was not advertised much either (unless i missed the ads) and at the prices some of these DVD's sell at (no im not saying these sets in particular were alot of money im saying that most of these shows on DVD cost a fortune) no wonder a consumer would not buy it. The economy today is bad yes but that does not mean you have to raise the price to lets say $64.00 and if a kid sees them he wants them and of course the parents say NO.

Look my point is. Disney is a billion dollar company (if not more) and it can support DVD sales (rise or fall) because the company will still make money off it if it says Disney and with the right exposure to these products which Disney has not done no wonder the sales would flop. Disney can support itself in plenty of markets as they have shown to be able to do so but they are not letting themselves expand to a better horizon with there older stuff. There is a fanbase out there for it and one can also be made or developed but it just needs the right way to be exposed and that CAN be accomplished through DVD's and considerably the ones in the "Disney Vault". It can also be exposed through TV. Tell me why in the 90's Disney would make tons of money off of animated films and now they dont at all. Also there animated tv shows were huge hits. Disney would advertise these shows and there videos constantly and now they are letting there animation department blow down because of this and the Disney Vault for shutting out classic Disney animated movies and tv shows. If they have so much money why cant they use it to advertise what they did long ago and bring it to a new generation. It dont make any sense.

[Antiyonder]

1. It is practically Disney's fault that animated tv shows and movies are not selling well and that is because of there way of advertising them. I dont believe i even saw ONE ad for a Disney Afternoon DVD set when they were coming out at all.

Plenty of old cartoons sold well without advertisement (like Teddy Ruxpin and Captain N), so while it would have been nice to see some ads, it's not as necessary as you believe.

X-Men the Animated Series was not advertised much either (unless i missed the ads) and at the prices some of these DVD's sell at (no im not saying these sets in particular were alot of money im saying that most of these shows on DVD cost a fortune) no wonder a consumer would not buy it.

I believe you misread. X-Men The Animated Series sold so well, that Disney actually did distribute all of the episodes and with no advertisement. It's just that when it comes down to it, those clamouring for Disney Afternoon releases didn't want their favorite show bad enough to purchase them sooner.

Look my point is. Disney is a billion dollar company (if not more) and it can support DVD sales (rise or fall) because the company will still make money off it if it says Disney and with the right exposure to these products which Disney has not done no wonder the sales would flop. Disney can support itself in plenty of markets as they have shown to be able to do so but they are not letting themselves expand to a better horizon with there older stuff. There is a fanbase out there for it and one can also be made or developed but it just needs the right way to be exposed and that CAN be accomplished through DVD's and considerably the ones in the "Disney Vault". It can also be exposed through TV. Tell me why in the 90's Disney would make tons of money off of animated films and now they dont at all. Also there animated tv shows were huge hits. Disney would advertise these shows and there videos constantly and now they are letting there animation department blow down because of this and the Disney Vault for shutting out classic Disney animated movies and tv shows. If they have so much money why cant they use it to advertise what they did long ago and bring it to a new generation. It dont make any sense.

As I've pointed out already, many old cartoons have seen successful sales without advertisements.

And while they have plenty of money, advertising for a show that may not be successful could hurt them financially just the same, whereas HSM and Hannah Montana are a proven success. So while I'm peeved at not seeing more of the classics, the fact is that spending money on the proven success is safer than spending the money on something that may fail.

If you want Disney to treat the classics with respect, then save up your money and buy any product relevent to the Disney Classics (The Disney Afternoon DVDS, The Gargoyles Trades, The Ducktales Trades and the upcoming Darkwing Duck comic). This is a case where money speaks louder than words.

[DarthGonzo]

Not to be harsh but this sounds like another one of those "Disney isn't doing what I want them them to do so I'm mad at them and I think they'll fail if they don't do what I want" threads.

[Ed Liu]

Ok over the past few years we have seen Disney go from hero to zero in PLENTY of ways regarding there animation department and how they process and release animated films and even have the guts to say none of them sell good. This argument from them seems to usually go with there classic animated movies to. Saying none of these sell good either.

I'm not sure if you're saying that Disney is justifying the Vault by claiming that their animated classics don't sell well on home video, that their classics don't sell well because of the Vault, or both, but neither one of those assumptions is true. Disney has never justified the Vault by saying that DVD sales were poor, and even if they did, this is not borne out by the numbers available to the public. Here's the sales chart for Pinocchio, which shows some pretty healthy numbers, and I remember press releases from Disney that made comparable boasts for the platinum editions of Sleeping Beauty and some of their other recent releases. This is the chart for Snow White, which doesn't look as good, but I suspect it's skewed because of the crazy DVD/Blu-ray packaging they did and the fact that it's a really old movie that was re-released in a very good DVD edition relatively recently.

They also do not hide the fact that a movie is coming out of the Vault, as you seem to be suggesting. If you hit sites like ours, they blitz us with all kinds of material to promote it, and it'll be blaring out at you at every major retailer in the country on the week of release. Snow White got a whole lot more promotion than I've ever seen for any of their tweener comedy releases on DVD (although I admit I don't really look for that sort of thing).

Disney created the Vault before there was a home video market, when they'd re-release all their movies in theaters so people could see them. They repurposed the concept for home video, and it worked because people who were on the fence about buying a movie to own would do it because they knew it would be gone for a chunk of time if they didn't act immediately. The Vault RAISED sales, not lowered them.

Disney also doesn't put everything into the Vault, or if they do, they print enough to satisfy demand for quite a while. My local Costco had blowout sales of stuff like Hercules, The Black Cauldron, and a bunch of other Disney films on DVD that were technically out of print. Most of the modern movies don't seem to be going anywhere, either.

I think the Vault is an idea whose time has past as well, but mostly because of the durability and quality of DVD as a medium and because I think they're already hitting diminishing returns on home video formats. Disney got at least 2 or 3 more hits out of the Vault in the move from VHS to DVD and now from DVD to Blu-ray, but I think there needs to be a VHS->DVD quality improvement in 7 years from what we have now for the Vault to do them any good. Otherwise, people are just going to look at their DVDs and say, "I don't need to buy Pinocchio again." But I definitely don't think it's "killing Disney" by any means.

[Jeff Harris]

The Disney Vault was a good idea when the films were in theaters and on video tape, but in the DVD/Blu-Ray/streaming video market, it's terrible.

There's no vault system when it comes to their live-action films. If I wanted a copy of Mary Poppins or`Bedknobs and Broomsticks but out of budgetary reasons couldn't buy it today, I could go to the store and get it tomorrow, a month from now, or a year from now. Same deal with any Pixar-made movie. If I wanted a copy of most of the Disney-made animated titles like Peter Pan, The Little Mermaid, The Lion King, or Aladdin but out of budgetary reasons couldn't buy it today, I only have a handful of weeks to get it before they put it back into the vault for five or even 10 years. Even made for video releases like Return to Neverland, The Little Mermaid 3, The Lion King 1 1/2, and Aladdin and the King of Thieves are treated like that.

By comparison, if I wanted to buy a copy of a Dreamworks film like Prince of Egypt or Road to El Dorado but out of budgetary reasons couldn't buy it today, I could go to the store and get it tomorrow, a month from tomorrow, a year from tomorrow, heck, even 10 years from tomorrow.

Yeah, High School Musical does get more sales than Sleeping Beauty, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that HSM is in the marketplace a lot longer than the animated movie. For example, HSM comes out with a special edition in July on Blu-Ray and DVD one week. The following week, Sleeping Beauty is released and restored on Blu-Ray and DVD. January comes, HSM is still on the shelves. Sleeping Beauty is off the shelves because Disney stops selling the title after December 31 and returns to the vault. Five years later, the same High School Musical that came out is still on the marketplace while a brand new, even more restored version of Sleeping Beauty comes out for another six-month window.

What's fair about that?

Same thing with the animated series. Many of the animated series from The Disney Afternoon and One Saturday Morning blocks are either not on DVD/Blu-Ray or incomplete, not to mention rarely seen on the air in the Disney-owned media outlets. Meanwhile, Disney Channel's live-action sitcoms, which are repeated ad nauseum on Disney Channel, ABC, and Disney XD, are collected on those formats on a monthly basis.

Maybe animation fans should be more vocal about the Disney Vault practice and their treatment of their non-Pixar animated titles.

[launchpad20]

The Disney Vault was a good idea when the films were in theaters and on video tape, but in the DVD/Blu-Ray/streaming video market, it's terrible.

There's no vault system when it comes to their live-action films. If I wanted a copy of Mary Poppins or`Bedknobs and Broomsticks but out of budgetary reasons couldn't buy it today, I could go to the store and get it tomorrow, a month from now, or a year from now. Same deal with any Pixar-made movie. If I wanted a copy of most of the Disney-made animated titles like Peter Pan, The Little Mermaid, The Lion King, or Aladdin but out of budgetary reasons couldn't buy it today, I only have a handful of weeks to get it before they put it back into the vault for five or even 10 years. Even made for video releases like Return to Neverland, The Little Mermaid 3, The Lion King 1 1/2, and Aladdin and the King of Thieves are treated like that.

By comparison, if I wanted to buy a copy of a Dreamworks film like Prince of Egypt or Road to El Dorado but out of budgetary reasons couldn't buy it today, I could go to the store and get it tomorrow, a month from tomorrow, a year from tomorrow, heck, even 10 years from tomorrow.

Yeah, High School Musical does get more sales than Sleeping Beauty, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that HSM is in the marketplace a lot longer than the animated movie. For example, HSM comes out with a special edition in July on Blu-Ray and DVD one week. The following week, Sleeping Beauty is released and restored on Blu-Ray and DVD. January comes, HSM is still on the shelves. Sleeping Beauty is off the shelves because Disney stops selling the title after December 31 and returns to the vault. Five years later, the same High School Musical that came out is still on the marketplace while a brand new, even more restored version of Sleeping Beauty comes out for another six-month window.

What's fair about that?

Good observation. On the one hand, more people should support the quality Disney titles despite being outnumbered by the teenyboppers who eat up 'Hanna Montana', or 'High School Musical' a million to one. On the other hand, most fans don't always have the money to but them. Especially in these tough economic times. It would also help the Disney Afternoon classics got more exposure on many of Disney's cable outlets. This might actually boost sales of the DVD box sets so that they might actually compete with the 'Disney Channel' pap. That's my two cents.

[Toon Master]

The Disney Vault was a good idea when the films were in theaters and on video tape, but in the DVD/Blu-Ray/streaming video market, it's terrible.

There's no vault system when it comes to their live-action films. If I wanted a copy of Mary Poppins or`Bedknobs and Broomsticks but out of budgetary reasons couldn't buy it today, I could go to the store and get it tomorrow, a month from now, or a year from now. Same deal with any Pixar-made movie. If I wanted a copy of most of the Disney-made animated titles like Peter Pan, The Little Mermaid, The Lion King, or Aladdin but out of budgetary reasons couldn't buy it today, I only have a handful of weeks to get it before they put it back into the vault for five or even 10 years. Even made for video releases like Return to Neverland, The Little Mermaid 3, The Lion King 1 1/2, and Aladdin and the King of Thieves are treated like that.

By comparison, if I wanted to buy a copy of a Dreamworks film like Prince of Egypt or Road to El Dorado but out of budgetary reasons couldn't buy it today, I could go to the store and get it tomorrow, a month from tomorrow, a year from tomorrow, heck, even 10 years from tomorrow.

Yeah, High School Musical does get more sales than Sleeping Beauty, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that HSM is in the marketplace a lot longer than the animated movie. For example, HSM comes out with a special edition in July on Blu-Ray and DVD one week. The following week, Sleeping Beauty is released and restored on Blu-Ray and DVD. January comes, HSM is still on the shelves. Sleeping Beauty is off the shelves because Disney stops selling the title after December 31 and returns to the vault. Five years later, the same High School Musical that came out is still on the marketplace while a brand new, even more restored version of Sleeping Beauty comes out for another six-month window.

What's fair about that?

Same thing with the animated series. Many of the animated series from The Disney Afternoon and One Saturday Morning blocks are either not on DVD/Blu-Ray or incomplete, not to mention rarely seen on the air in the Disney-owned media outlets. Meanwhile, Disney Channel's live-action sitcoms, which are repeated ad nauseum on Disney Channel, ABC, and Disney XD, are collected on those formats on a monthly basis.

Maybe animation fans should be more vocal about the Disney Vault practice and their treatment of their non-Pixar animated titles.

Thank you. You explain more of what im saying even better then i can!

[Dr.Pepper]

Disney does the Disney vault to be symbolic of their movies being re-released back to theaters. The reason why you can't just march down to Best Buy and buy Bambi and Cinderella right now is because you couldn't just go down to the theater and watch those movies whenever.

[Toon Master]

Disney does the Disney vault to be symbolic of their movies being re-released back to theaters. The reason why you can't just march down to Best Buy and buy Bambi and Cinderella right now is because you couldn't just go down to the theater and watch those movies whenever.

But these movies were in theaters in the 1940's and 1950's. They are way passed there time in a real movie theater and now therefore do NOT have to be used in that type of practice anymore. If a movie has been out of a theater like that for over 50 to 60 years why does it have to be continued to be used in this type of practice. Why the heck cant i go to a Best Buy and pick up my favorite Disney film anytime. As Jeff Harris basically stated he could go to a store and get his favorite movie from any company BESIDES DISNEY. And taking these movies in and out of a "Vault" would only decrease income because there is not enough time for people to buy the movie. I know the sales charts are good but does this practice really make any sense at all?

[Raidon Makoto]

Here's the thing: It costs money to maintain an SKU. Each release that Disney puts into Best Buy, Walmart, and Target is several million copies that Disney has to manufacture. The risk with it is that if it doesn't sell well, they'll ship it back to Disney and they have to refund the store. Stores like to shift their product around constantly (IE no backlog), ergo, it is not practical to have all fifty or so movies in the Disney canon on the store at the same time.

If you're looking for Disney movies that are out of print, there's always eBay and Amazon Marketplace, and you'll probably be able to get them dirt cheap from there too.

[the_joker]

i don't like the idea of the vault much either because i would just like to be able to buy one of the disney animated films at any time

and i'm not exactly sure the vault raises demand because the movies will be out for a limited time. i think leaving a dvd out on shelf for several years can still sell much better than mulitple limited releases, but there's no actual way to find out which method will work better since both can't be used at the same time and give accurate results (i don't know if that made sense to anyone...)

still, i would like to see the movies airing on tv more often...

[Peter Paltridge]

What really irks me about this is that, ten year ago, we didn't seem to have this problem. They always had stocked shelves of their masterpieces. I recently stumbled upon a box filled with several of their most classic movies, the obvious ones that everyone sees when they are a kid and grow up with the memories from them like Beauty and the Beast, or Pinocchio, Bambi, Alice in Wonderland. All of them are surprisingly great quality considering they've been in an attic for atleast five or so years. I tried looking for alot of them on DVD, and guess what. They aren't available. It just makes absolutely no sense for me to have to wait for their next "special" release cause its walt's 150'th birthday or what ever. I want my kids to grow up seeing these classic movies, but i guess i'll have to make my own DVD transfers from the vhs. Guess i'll have to get a dazzle.

I don't know what you're talking about. Ten years ago the Vault was alive and well. When VHSes vanished from stores, they became very hard to get. Nowadays, it's impossible to keep the Vault scam going because out-of-print Disney DVDs are easily obtainable online through Amazon or eBay.

They quit doing it for some of them. The Monsters Inc DVD on the shelf today is the same one they sold in 2002. It's never gone out of print. And hey, why not; it's a great release that'd be hard to improve upon....

[Leviathan]

Nowadays, it's impossible to keep the Vault scam going because out-of-print Disney DVDs are easily obtainable online.

And for the most part, they haven't really spiked in value, unlike other desirable OOPs like some of the Criterions and MST3K's.

My biggest beef with Disney and DVD's is how so much of their stuff is not available. Their library would thrive from a Warner Archive-style MOD program, moreso than even Warner's.

[firefoxprime]

The Disney Vault was a good idea when the films were in theaters and on video tape, but in the DVD/Blu-Ray/streaming video market, it's terrible.

There's no vault system when it comes to their live-action films. If I wanted a copy of Mary Poppins or`Bedknobs and Broomsticks but out of budgetary reasons couldn't buy it today, I could go to the store and get it tomorrow, a month from now, or a year from now. Same deal with any Pixar-made movie. If I wanted a copy of most of the Disney-made animated titles like Peter Pan, The Little Mermaid, The Lion King, or Aladdin but out of budgetary reasons couldn't buy it today, I only have a handful of weeks to get it before they put it back into the vault for five or even 10 years. Even made for video releases like Return to Neverland, The Little Mermaid 3, The Lion King 1 1/2, and Aladdin and the King of Thieves are treated like that.

By comparison, if I wanted to buy a copy of a Dreamworks film like Prince of Egypt or Road to El Dorado but out of budgetary reasons couldn't buy it today, I could go to the store and get it tomorrow, a month from tomorrow, a year from tomorrow, heck, even 10 years from tomorrow.

Yeah, High School Musical does get more sales than Sleeping Beauty, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that HSM is in the marketplace a lot longer than the animated movie. For example, HSM comes out with a special edition in July on Blu-Ray and DVD one week. The following week, Sleeping Beauty is released and restored on Blu-Ray and DVD. January comes, HSM is still on the shelves. Sleeping Beauty is off the shelves because Disney stops selling the title after December 31 and returns to the vault. Five years later, the same High School Musical that came out is still on the marketplace while a brand new, even more restored version of Sleeping Beauty comes out for another six-month window.

What's fair about that?

Same thing with the animated series. Many of the animated series from The Disney Afternoon and One Saturday Morning blocks are either not on DVD/Blu-Ray or incomplete, not to mention rarely seen on the air in the Disney-owned media outlets. Meanwhile, Disney Channel's live-action sitcoms, which are repeated ad nauseum on Disney Channel, ABC, and Disney XD, are collected on those formats on a monthly basis.

Maybe animation fans should be more vocal about the Disney Vault practice and their treatment of their non-Pixar animated titles.

hmm...could have sworn I saw Return to Neverland at the cinema.
was it supposed to be direct-to-video movie?

hehe...what if the disney vault doesnt even exist?
and we're here debating on something that has never been around.
hehe