In defense of Disney Animation.

[I.R Joey]

One of the things I've never understood is why Disney is bashed so much by Cartoon fans. I mean especially the Disney of the last 20 years. I've thought that alot of their last few movies (the majority of the last 12 "big" summer animated movies) have been really cool. From the underappreciated Mulan to the grandeure of the Lion King (okay we can get into the whole Kimba the White Lion controversy later Otaku's) Disney has convinced me a bunch of times that they really can do a good job. Yeah they have a tendancy to milk their stuff alot of times, but heck lots of companies do that.

[Sumi_Masen]

I don't like the idea of the Disney sequels........but I AM going to see PP2 tomorrow!(I hope)
I'm a Peter Pan fan.........yup, I sure is

[RockItShipper]

Personally, what bothers me most about Disney is how it's really what steered animation as being primarily focused towards children. I don't mind them being around, but their success encourages studios to copy them rather than establish their own niche.

And the high points of Disney in my book are the things off the beaten path... Gargoyles, Nightmare Before Christmas... I love their theme parks and the old behind-the-scenes tv shows about it, as well. I'm becoming more and more fascinated with that kinda stuff, actually.

[Sheamon]

The only thing I got against Disney is that they won't admit that they ripped off Kimba and Nadia, and both refuse to release and refuse to re-sell the Miyazaki stuff like Nausicaa, Laputa, etc...

[LightAngel]

I actually do love Disney, when they spend their time on more original films. Most of my favorite movies are Disney ones. Its only fairly recently that I have grown dissapointed with them. If they would end this sequel madness, I would spend less time bashing them.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by RockItShipper
Personally, what bothers me most about Disney is how it's really what steered animation as being primarily focused towards children. I don't mind them being around, but their success encourages studios to copy them rather than establish their own niche.

It is not Disney's falt. WB could have been extreamly success too if they knew fully what they had with LT back in the 50s. My theory is that we have this cartoons are for kids not becouse of Disney but becouse WB managment has mostly always been dumber then dirt.

[Nightflower]

I've never really been a big complainer of Disney. The company has done so much for animation, and I'd love to work for them (Heck, even if I had to, I'll even be on the- *gulp* sequel crew *ooh, feels dirty after she says that*).

But unlike Joey, I think their animated movies in the past few years been really mediocre. I liked Mulan, but I don't think it was a very good movie- it was very formulaic. There was the useless sidekick characters (I like crickets, but WHAT did the cricket do?); the wooden love interest; the "diamond-in-the-rough" plucky heroine who's such a little funny girl, that Belle- whoops, wrong movie. Because of the failure of Atlantis, they're probably going to be scared to do more "mature" movies now, thinking that people don't like seeing mature movies. I think the problem is bland writing, which is why I still have my doubts about Lilo and Stitch, even though everyone seems to really like it.

I don't think I need to mention the sequel thing- everyone hates that.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I personally have no strong opinions towards their films. In my opinion, some of them are good, many of them are mediocre, and a lot of them are essentially the same film made over.

I guess when it comes down to it is that it's too corporate for my tastes. They appeal to a broad audience, and I'm not that audience.

I think they have also bogged down the progress of animation by setting the "known" standard for animation. That's not really their fault, though--they're just trying to make money like they're supposed to, but as mentioned earlier, their formula inspires copycats and doesn't help change mainstream perception. It does exasperate me when I read a review of an animated film that slams it when it tries something different, but sings sweet praises when it is essentially doing the same thing everyone else has done for the last 20 years. Oh wait, it's done WELL, that's why it's good.

Well, excuse me.

[RogueMartian]

Disney did great with the Lion King and Mulan, I agree with those points there. But what about their other recent movies? Hercules was worse than horrible (as an avid reader of greek mythology it was particularly painful to me), The hunchback of notre dame, pocahontas, and atlantis. Now they are doing ridiculous sequels, Pocahontas 2, The lion king 2, Peter Pan 2, cinderella 2, and if the other thread on this board is right, snow white 2. Worst still is the fact that they have recently made pixar the focus of their yearly animated film. I know some people like CGI, but I think it should be used to enhance skillfull drawings, not be an entire movie. Toy Story, toy story 2, and a bugs life were far from being my favorite films(although any one of them is a million times better than their recent animated films as far as story goes).

I bash disney because they do sequels and have let CGI become too much a part of their animation. I bash disney because even their original movies are formulaic. Each character, even villains, having a dumb annoying sidekick and every story geared towards 5 year olds. I bash disney because I know that it can do SO much better.

[Blue Priestess]

Originally posted by LightAngel
I actually do love Disney, when they spend their time on more original films. Most of my favorite movies are Disney ones. Its only fairly recently that I have grown dissapointed with them. If they would end this sequel madness, I would spend less time bashing them.

Dang it. My exact sentiments. If Disney wouldn't insist on making a sequel to every movie in their library, from great to just good, then maybe I could respect them. When they do originals, they're at least entertaining and often brilliant. But the sequels are always the same, no matter what the movie, and it's exhausting.

Mela

[Joe Wagner]

I think the reason I have issues with Disney is the fact they seem to be almost desecrating their inventory in favor of the quick buck. Being involved with business I know that you have to have money in order to do anything - but in all honesty destroying your characters in the process won't help your company. Look what Marvel has done over the past few years - they've brought in top notch talent, improved a vast majority of their books and took chances at doing something new. The few new things Disney has done I thought were incredible - Atlantis ranks as one of my fave Disney movies and I didn't have to suffer through 28 songs and 14 animal sidekicks like some of their other stuff.

The reason I bash Disney is because it almost seems like they have no respect for their characters - none. 3/4 of the sequels that have been made, or are being made, don't need one but the stuff that actually lends itself to a sequel is ignored and cast aside. Gargoyles would make a great movie (only if Greg was brought back in to helm it) and Atlantis had an animated series planned - with the first three episodes now being a 'sequel'. Tarzan has numerous adventures and Peter Pan actually looks like it could be interesting - but do Snow White, Cinderella, Hunchback and Dumbo all really need sequels? No, they were supposed to be "Happily Ever After" - which means "The End", "No More" and "Have a nice Night". Even with all of the sequel madness that gripped Disney and their ability to destroy pieces of work that aren't even theirs (see what they're doing to the Spidey Animated Series - taking clips from Season 1 and 2 to make a 'new movie') I still hold out a small inkling of hope that Disney will see where they are wrong and give us more original stuff. I look forward to seeing Lilo and Stitch (altho it sounds like a Disney version of The Iron Giant) and personally think that Treasure Planet looks absolutely stunning.

Maybe someday they'll understand that it's not how many unfilling sequels they can shove onto consumers that makes them successful but the overstuffed quality movies that is the reason they became the giant they are today.

-Joe!

[Karkull]

Originally posted by RogueMartian
Hercules was worse than horrible (as an avid reader of greek mythology it was particularly painful to me)

I didn't mind so much. It helps that there are multiple ways to tell a mythological story...some of them even contradict each other!

I liked Hercules because it was the anti-Disney flick. The cute children and animals were demons, the love interest was a suacy lady who was allied with the villain, and Hades (played by a beautifully sardonic James Woods) was like an evil version of Aladdin's Genie. Now, if only they could have lost the Gospel singing Muses!

I still like Disney...to a point. I loved Mulan, Aladdin, and the first 65 episodes of Gargoyles; but Disney itself I could do without. They're pompous and more than a little fascist. They treat their employees poorly. And they did rip off the Lion King.

[Elven Moon]

Disney upsets me because, to me, they have become a greedy company who only care about getting more money aka "mean green." They've been shelling out more stupid movies nowadays than when they started! It also feels to me like they're trying to take over the world, and that upsets me even more! Don't believe me? How about buying FOX Family? ABC? We have enough Disney shows to watch, we don't need another channel! Sticking Disney merchandise whereever they can squeeze them! Buying shares from or buying other companies! They want to get more money in any way they can, it seems to me. They have no shame IMO.

Sorry, but I've been feeling a bit bitter since I found out that they're trying to get Spirited Away, and yet they have yet to release the OTHER Miyazaki movies they have the rights to.

[Ruffian]

I love Disney, for the most part. Some of my favorite childhood memories are related to Disney. Disneyland is my all time favorite theme park too.

Despite that, they do annoy me with these sequels, especially the more recent ones to come out. It's just wrong because they're given their classics, Peter Pan and Cinderella, sequels that just aren't necessary and most likely will ruin the magic of the original. As for the flops in the movie theaters, whatever, a couple other films that are deemed classic now were flops when they were first released, such as Sleeping Beauty. Who knows, maybe Pocahontas and Hunchback will be a big favorite in another 20 years.

Disney really launched off a great era with The Little Mermaid, and again with Beauty and the Beast (I recently saw this movie again after a LONG time and finally saw how good it is and why it was nominated for a Best Picture award), Aladdin, and The Lion King. Lion King was the point where it starts tipping down. These films were definitely quality, whether a few people agree or not, they were very well received in the public and had good stories, music, and animation. They had great cartoons running at this time too, the Disney afternoon. I pretty much switched over from Fox to get my daily dose of Ducktales, Chip n Dale, and Tale Spin.

The films to come after Lion King were definitely not up at the level as the other four films. And how people liked them greatly varies. I personally loved Mulan and Tarzan. Stories were a little better, but didn't have the same magic as the ones in the Golden Era (maybe because three of them were fairytales? ), but they were very enjoyable to watch and I felt for the characters. If anything, the backdrop and scenery for Mulan and Tarzan were gorgeous.

Disney I think is in a rut right now in terms of ideas. I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled off another Golden era like they did with the Little Mermaid. It's definitely possible, and with years to come they might have some new talents that will pull it off.