Gargoyles "Avalon, Parts 1 - 3" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Fone Bone]

Hey, another great Gargoyles arc!

Gargoyles "Avalon"

The Gaurdian visits New York to take Goliath, Elisa, and Bronx to the mythical island of Avalon where time moves differently and Goliath meets a surprise relation. This epic arc contains the Arch-Mage, MacBeth, Demona, and the Wierd Sisters along with King Arthur. It also begins the World Tour arc. Don't miss it.

Remember if the episode has aired on ABC Family it's fair game. If not SPOILER BOXES. That is all.

Comments? What What? Holla Back!

[The Frog]

So far this arc seems pretty good. I loved the cliffhanger at the end. I can't wait to see part two tomorrow. I want to see what the new Gargoyles look like...

It was also cool to see Tom return from the first episodes. I thought the use of him as a sympathizer to the Gargoyles was nice, so I liked seeing him back.

I also never noticed the relationship between Princess Katherine (Catherine? Kathyrn?) and Mangus. I knew that he was dedicated to her, but I never really saw how close they were.
So far, this is looking like a great arc.

[Sandoz]

I like this arc mainly for the reappearance of Tom, Catherine, and Magus. I especially liked how the flashback was to the point and not stretched out over several episodes; it worked for "City of Stone" but wouldn't have here.

[Antiyonder]

Another good multiparter. Too bad Goliath won't be able to finish that book. I liked the scene between Tom and Morgan.

Some information on Part 1 according to Greg:

Originally we were to see another character in the flashback, but was cut due to complications. The character is King Kenneth III. He's cousin to Katherine, and father to Bodhe (From City Of Stone). I guess that would make Macbeth and Katherine cousins right?

As for Mary and Finella:

Spoiler:

They would be in the early episode of Timedancer. Brooklyn would be sent to 997 AD in his first journey and would save them from Constantine's soldiers.

[Chad Bonin]

Is it just me, or is Magus designed similarly to Puck?

[William C. Maune]

All the wizardy types seem to have the lanky with white hair thing going on.

[Paul_Cousins]

All the wizardy types seem to have the lanky with white hair thing going on.

I think Merlin set the tend on that.

After Avalon Parts 2 & 3 air this morning, I will post my opinion on the trilogy.

[tucsoncoyote]

I think Merlin set the tend on that.

If not Gandalf...yep there's a trend here .. somewhere...

[Chad Bonin]

Um... so now they're off where they're needed... and that's not New York... and it's just Elisa, Goliath, the dog-thing, and Angela?

... how come I'm having horrid flashbacks of "Sonic and Tails' Mobius World Tour"?

Anyways... meh. I hate to say it, but that's my response to most of these "epic" arcs.

[The Frog]

Wow, this was a great arc. Heh, baby Gargoyles are adorable. I wonder how Demona will act towards Angela joining Golith's clan. I also wonder if the boat at the end does take them to New York. Is there an episode that is more or less an epilogue like City of Stone had?

[Fone Bone]

Wow, this was a great arc. Heh, baby Gargoyles are adorable. I wonder how Demona will act towards Angela joining Golith's clan. I also wonder if the boat at the end does take them to New York. Is there an episode that is more or less an epilogue like City of Stone had?

All these questions will be answered in the World Tour arc. Minor spoiler, so I'm not even gonna bother putting it in boxes but they obviously DON'T go home right away.

Honestly, the World Tour arc is my least favorite in the series, but it is more than made up for by The Reckoning, Future Tense, and The Gathering.

And Knux, surprised you didn't like this. Serious tension with the Archmage. I had no fingernails left when I first saw those Sand Mages attack our heroes. Good flashbacks but not too many like City of Stone (which I still loved). And c'mon! You can't go wrong with King Arthur! He'll be back.

I thought it was so creepy when the Archmage ATE the Grimmorum! It was wild and unpredictable and completely in the spirit of mythology. Also this story makes Long Way Till Morning better on second veiwing too. And the Weird Sisters! We finally found out their motivations with kidnapping Demona and MacBeth. And Avalon is Oberon's island. That is a CLUE! CLUE!

I always love Gargoyles multiparters and this was no exception. The Magus owns and Katherine rules with her Gaurdian! Score: *****.

[William C. Maune]

Um... so now they're off where they're needed... and that's not New York... and it's just Elisa, Goliath, the dog-thing, and Angela?

At least it only lasts about 17 episodes. While the rest of the Manhattan Clan does take a backseat for the most part during this arc, we'll still see several familar villains and allies

It is intended to be a way to open up the Gargoyles world beyond New York and Scotland.

[Chad Bonin]

... ONLY seventeen episodes? That's a good month of episodes (and almost half of PRDT, Will).

Please tell me they're actually going to civilization, instead of... more medieval stuff.

[Fone Bone]

... ONLY seventeen episodes? That's a good month of episodes (and almost half of PRDT, Will).

Please tell me they're actually going to civilization, instead of... more medieval stuff.

The next episode will deal with medieval stuff. Most of the rest won't. So, yes to civilization but it will be around the world rather than just America. Modern times though.

[William C. Maune]

... ONLY seventeen episodes? That's a good month of episodes (and almost half of PRDT, Will).

Please tell me they're actually going to civilization, instead of... more medieval stuff.

It may be about half of PRDT, but it seems smaller compared to 66 Gargoyles episodes.

There is some medieval stuff, as Fone Bone pointed out, but there is a wide range of locales including:

Canada
Scotland
Prague
Paris
London (Modern day and WW2)
Egypt
Ireland
Australia
Nigeria
London/Manhattan
Norway
New Olympus
Mexico
Easter Island
Japan
Arizona
and... The future?

[Antiyonder]

The script to Avalon Part 2 was too long and had to be cut. It would involve Archmage+ mentoring The Original Archamge, and guiding the sisters.

Also,

Spoiler:

Archamge+ made an extra trip in time between scenes in Avalon Part 3. That would have been dealt with in Timedancer

There will be a few Episodes taking place in Manhattan.

[Graymonk]

Mmm I envy you guys, getting to watch Gargs on TV. I've got quite a few episodes on tape but a good chunk of the wold tour eludes me. Fortunately I do have "Avalon" I always enjoyed this story, mostly because I like most anything with King Arthur kicking butt. This arc always seems underappreciated to me, especially in comparisson to the praise heaped on "Future Tense" or "Hunter's Moon," which is rather odd considering this is the climax of the series up to this point. Oh well, different strokes and all that.

Anyway, I've noticed that in the Gargs fandom there's been a lot of confusion over the years about the Weird Sisters' motives in "City of Stone" in relation to their more villainous actions in "Avalon" in a preemptive attempt to clear any such confusion here I'd like to post a scene planned for part 2 that was cut from the final episodeto make room for the beach fight in act 1. I assume from Knux Five's comments that these have already aired on Toondisney (if not then by all means Mr. Maune, delete this post). It takes place between the scene where Archmage+ tells the Sisters to waych Demona and Macbeth and the scene where everybody arrives on the barge outside Avalon. The source is a beat sheet Greg posted in ASK GREG and goes a long way to explaining why a trio of vengeful witches would start preaching to Demona about the evils of revenge. (and please excuse my spelling in this post, I'm using my uncle's seriously whacked keyboard)

They reappear in 1040. The Weird Sisters report that they have done their best to aide Demona and Macbeth. The first Hunter is dead. But there is a new one now who’s even more dangerous. Archmage+ is very pleased. He knows that Demona and Macbeth will arrive soon. He instructs the Sisters to guide them into making a magical pact that will link their life energy together. We will need them alive and vital centuries from now. We must make them immortal. [In the margin, I again wrote: "Soldiers".]

Sisters and Archmage are confused. Immortal warriors are powerful. How will we control them? Trust me, says Archmage+.

Archmage+ renders him and the Archmage invisible, just in time to see the fifty year old Demona and the 35 year old Macbeth enter. ("City of Stone, Part 3") We see the Weird Sisters link them magically.

Afterwards, the Sisters explain that the job is done. Neither can die, unless one kills the other. Excellent, says the Archmage+. Keep an eye on the two of them. Also keep an eye out for the Grimorum, the Gate and the Eye of Odin. The Weird Sisters are confused. Archmage+ has the Eye and the Gate. Archmage+ laughs. But I didn’t have them. Not until you brought them to me. We’ll meet again on an island called "Manhattan"... in 955 years.

Archmage: "Nine-HUNDRED and fifty-five years?!!" But before he can protest, the Archmage+ uses the gate to transport them both away.
10. 1995. Manhattan. Weird Sisters as NYC Fashion Models rendezvous at Tavern on the Green, with the Archmages. Archmage+ says: "Disguise". And he and the Archmage, seem to be wearing modern clothes. Over a pleasant candlelit dinner, the Sisters fill us in. All three magical talismans have fallen into the hands of this gargoyle... and an image of Goliath appears in the candlelight. Archmage recognizes Goliath, and can’t believe that he survived this far into the future. Archmage+ says, "This isn’t the future yet."

Archmage+ asks about Demona and Macbeth. Sisters respond that both are phenomenal fighters, proficient with modern technology and weaponry and half-decent sorcerers to boot. Plus each warrior has his or her own agenda. Demona is determined to wipe out humanity. And Macbeth is equally determined to wipe out Demona, even though he knows it will cost him his own life. They will be very difficult to control. Archmage+: "Yes, yes, but what are they up to now?" [And yet again, I wrote "Soldiers" in the margin.] The Sisters believe that Demona is about to cast a powerful spell to turn everyone in Manhattan into stone. Macbeth will take this opportunity to hunt her down.

Archmage+ is very pleased. He advises the Sisters to help Goliath defeat both Demona and Macbeth. Make your final move after they’ve fought each other, but before Macbeth has a chance to end their lives. At that point they will be weakened enough for the Sisters to put a sleep spell on them. Then bring them to me. Where? Macbeth’s home on this island.

[Optional, if you have space: The sisters exit. Archmage+ asks the Archmage if he’d like to watch the action. Archmage says yes. Archmage+ says: "Somehow I knew that."]

Archmage+ uses Gate and both disappear.

[Optional, if you have space:
11. Invisible Archmages watch a replay of the final scenes from the end of City of Stone, Part Four. The ones where the Weird Sisters help Goliath talk Macbeth out of killing Demona. Put them both to sleep. Tell Goliath that they will take responsibility for them and vanish with them. The Archmages depart as well.]

12. Macbeth’s mansion. The Archmages appear as do the Sisters with Macbeth and Demona. The latter two are sound asleep. The Archmage+ whispers to the sleeping warriors. He "suggests" that they work together to steal the Grimorum, the Gate and the Eye from Goliath. The Sisters provide the clock tower location, and suggest that they steal Coldstone as well. That way the theft of the talismans won’t be detected immediately. Demona and Macbeth leave together to carry out this plan, completely fogged about how it came to them or why they are working together. [By the margin of both paragraphs 12 & 13, I wrote: "Weapons".]

Archmage asks about Coldstone. Weird Sisters say he is another warrior that might be of use to them. Archmage+ shakes his head. Coldstone wasn’t part of the plan, so he can’t be now. If his presence aids in the theft of the talismans, fine. But he must be separated from Demona and Macbeth, before the next stage of the plan can be set in motion. They will meet again at the watery door to Avalon.

[rabidrednek]

For those who haven't seen the world tour arc, be patient. There some good action in it, especially the WW2 episode. Angela is made aware of an interesting tie between her and Goliath. Many characters will appear during this arc and some very interesting character developement will occur. Especially when the Eye's true owner shows up wanting it back.

Remember, nothing in this show happens without cause.

[Duke]

Avalon was already cool because we got to see King Arthur as well as have Elisa meet Catherine, Tom, & Magus (Which was probably the basis for many fanfics before this arc aired).

My favorite Avalon episodes are definately Egypt, Japan, and "Manhattan." Guatemala I'm annoyed with, as it is by far my most watched episode of Gargoyles (even more than Awakening, which I have on video!).

[raykremer]

Thus begins the world tour! No, it's not so long actually, it just seemed that way originally because there were long periods of reruns between the time it started and the time it ended.

The funny thing about Avalon is that when it first aired, I was not well versed in Aurthurian lore and had never heard the name Avalon, so I had no idea who the sleeping king was going to be. Ironically I studied Aurthur in [high school] english class just a few weeks later. I even asked the teacher about the significance of Avalon, half expecting her to say it was Oberon's mystical island. Interestingly enough, in the same course we read MacBeth, several weeks after City of Stone first aired. Needless to say, I hated it, though I did have the voice of John Rhys-Davies in my head as I read.