A question about "Maid of Honor" widescreen showing

[susan123]

(Sorry to start a new thread for this question but I looked and looked and couldn't find the original thread for this episode.)

Anyway, I was watching the rerun of Maid of Honor tonight but noticed at the 1:00 a.m. showing that some scenes were cut out of part 2. Namely when Batman finds Wonder Woman in the barn and gives her some water. Did anyone else notice this? I don't know if it's just a technical error or perhaps CN is doing this to put in more commercial time--I don't know.

I'm know this is nitpicking but it's just I was waiting to get this episode in widescreen and they cut a scene out! Thanks for letting me vent my frustrations--I feel better.

Thanks Toon Zone!

[Karkull]

It's not just you -- that's around the same time that I shut it off.

C'mon, CN, what's the deal?

[Anarky]

WTF?!?!?!
this is the 3rd week in a row that CN has fugged up the 1am broadcast:

1. they showed fullscreen Tabula Rasa
2. cut out the opening of "Only A Dream" part 2
3. cut out the opening of "Maid of Honor" part 2

and don't forget they also cut out the opening to "A Better World" part 2

hardcore fans have been waiting patienly for season two...then we had to wait even more patienly for the widescreen editions...and you shortchange us!!!

whoever's responsible should be written up. your job is not peeving off your faithful viewers....and for what MORE commercials??? People watch cartoon network because there's LESS commercial interruptions!!!

my widescreen library is basically trash w/o the COMPLETE EPISODES!!!!!!!

*shouldn't this be merged w/ the "Maid of Honor" Talkback thread?*

[Killtacular]

As I said before, the widescreen version is a single tape. When they make a change they can't very easily undo it. They cut out the credits so that the second part of the episode would flow more smoothly right after part 1. I'm not supporting it, mind you.

[AQUAMANMARK]

I did not notice it w/'It's Only A Dream' but 'Maid
Of Honor' is my fav. ep. of Season 2 and that blew
my mind that they would do that. I prefer the WS
airings personally and so am spending rerun season
watching them in that format since I always watched
the first airings initially. Not only was it abrupt going
to break when they are showing Audrey's father, but
it makes no sense continuity wise that WW recovered
and Batman knew where she was OR where all the
jets came from that they were chasing all of a sudden.
Not to mention it makes the wedding scene seem like
it is happening too fast. Just that couple minutes of
edit ruins the whole episode. The fact it is my fav. eps.
p***es me off even more. If this is how it is I am not
even going to bother. They didn't edit Tabula Rasa but
as someone mentioned they didn't air it in WS either.

On a side note, I would love for them to air the premiere
of 'Starcrossed' in WS. Wishful thinking I guess....

[Spidey2099]

1. they showed fullscreen Tabula Rasa
2. cut out the opening of "Only A Dream" part 2
3. cut out the opening of "Maid of Honor" part 2

and don't forget they also cut out the opening to "A Better World" part 2

I can see Cartoon Network's new slogan:

"Entertainment--free?

Heck no--buy the DVD!"

[DarkLantern]

As I said before, the widescreen version is a single tape. When they make a change they can't very easily undo it. They cut out the credits so that the second part of the episode would flow more smoothly right after part 1. I'm not supporting it, mind you.

Hmmm... my "single tape" of the widescreen episode (from the WBA master), has the closing credits at the end of part one, the "Previously on Justice League" recap, a replay of the title sequence, then the complete version of part two.

If only someone with authority at CN was reading these boards and would decide to show these episodes the way they were meant to be seen.

Hint hint nudge nudge wink wink.

DL

[Killtacular]

It's fine that you have a master from WBA. In fact CN once sent out a widescreen tape to the press for this season. But the master tape CN now uses is probably not the same tape as the master you got from WBA. Something clearly happened after the tape left WBA's hands, and entered CN's hands. It's always the episodes preceding Eclipsed that are shown this way, because I think that eventually-- without fan intervention-- CN realized what they were doing was stupid, because Tabula Rasa and Only a Dream were shown in fullscreen in their first run at 1 am, correct? I don't know if their reversal on changing the widescreen tapes was a result of the fans' reaction to the widescreen airing of Maid of Honor... because I don't know if they made those changes to each episode that same week or did them all ahead of time.

It's always the same episodes shown this way, and the other episodes shown in full, which is why I conclude that the tapes at CN are permanently changed and can't be undone without purchasing another master from WBA.. or the right to make a copy of that master.. I'm not really sure how it works, legally. But that's how I see it. If they had a pure, unchanged widescreen tape in their hands for Tabula Rasa, Only a Dream, Hearts and Minds, and A Better World, I'm sure they would run it.

Seeing as it's a CN Original though, you're right, there is no excuse for this presentation. CN could and should just order another master from WBA and run it. They don't do that typically, but that's for acquisitions and third-party programs (except one changed episode of Yu Yu Hakusho). I remember how annoying it was that CN lost the tape to the MORON episode of Freakazoid. Instead of find it or order another one, they just skipped over the episode for a year and a half. We also won't ever see the end of Pirates of Dark Water because of this one-tape nonsense.

It also pissed many Cowboy Bebop fans off when CN lost the tape to episode 22, a fan favorite. They did find the tape for the second airing (two months later!), but it makes you wonder why they would have this strategy that allows a simple boneheaded mistake to screw up everything. It was literally chaos on the boards here when CN ran a different episode in #22's place. People screaming murder and cursing and barfighting... such politeness.

I don't think CN is so poorly budgeted that they can't just re-order tapes. It's silly. I mean they did give CN Studios $500 million for cartoon production. That's not pocket change.

So yeah, I'm not defending them here. I don't really understand much of it myself. Are they legally only allowed to have one copy of each episode or something? Doesn't make much sense.

Also, regarding the JL endings, on Toonami they show both parts of each episode with credits. So I don't think it's a change to the tapes. They probably just have the server set up to fade out right before "To Be Continued" and cut to commercial.

The stupid thing about these edits is that they actually free up too much time. Last night's Justice League had a "Toon Extra" after it, because of the removed end credits(p1), previously(p2), title(p2), and opening credits(p2), which is a good three minutes of material at least.

[Terminatah]

What exactly is being cut here? The credits at the end of part 1 and recap/theme song at the beginning of part 2 are unnecessary when watching both parts together. Unless there's actual show footage being omitted, I don't see a problem.

-Terminatah

[DarkLantern]

What exactly is being cut here? The credits at the end of part 1 and recap/theme song at the beginning of part 2 are unnecessary when watching both parts together. Unless there's actual show footage being omitted, I don't see a problem.

-Terminatah

Then we have a problem. The big deal is the footage that contains the "credits" to the part 2 episodes are being omitted in the widescreen airings. In the case of "Maid of Honor" -- CN cut the scene of Batman reviving Wonder Woman in the shattered barn, and the little discussion about potentially causing an international incident by flying off to Kaznia. I understand something similar happened during "Only a Dream" last week...

The part 2 credits were also omitted from the *fullscreen* version of "Hearts and Minds," but we've only lost some necessary establishing shots (otherwise why bother putting them there?), no dialogue.

I know "some people" over at CN doesn't like the widescreen version of anything, but to blatantly... sabotage (for lack of a better word) the widescreen airings in this way is just not "good for business..."

And really, in terms of time, machine use, materials, and shipping, ordering a new master costs hardly anything in the grand scheme of things. However, I'm a little... disturbed by Matt's observation that CN has only one (edited) tape. I trust he's not implying that the edits are being done on the WB side...

DL

[Killtacular]

The changes are not done by WB, no.

It's humorous that CN was like "Hell yeah, let's make this sucker widescreen!" and then nine months later is like "Wait a minute, what if kids don't like black bars", even though they've shown .hack//SIGN for many months and have shown Char's Counterattack and Millionaire Dog in widescreen as well.

They really need to make these decisions BEFORE they put money down. Especially since it seems like the JL pan+scan is just a lazy center crop, like the Tom & Jerry cinemascope toons. You'd think that for an original program they would at least take time to crop each individual shot differently to make sure all of the important information is shown.

[Master Moron]

I don't understand the logic in making television shows widescreen to begin with. I mean, movies should be aired on TV in widescreen format to make sure nothing is cut off. But, TV shows are made to air on TV, so shouldn't they be made to fit on a TV screen without cutting anything off or having black bars on the top and bottom? The only logic in making widescreen TV shows is if a lot of people have widescreen TVs. And I don't think that many people have widescreen TVs at the present time.

[Terminatah]

It is ridiculous to omit the opening of every part 2 just because it has credits. We don't need to see end credits and a theme song to avoid being confused by the sudden appearance of words on the screen.

I don't understand the logic in making television shows widescreen to begin with. I mean, movies should be aired on TV in widescreen format to make sure nothing is cut off. But, TV shows are made to air on TV, so shouldn't they be made to fit on a TV screen without cutting anything off or having black bars on the top and bottom? The only logic in making widescreen TV shows is if a lot of people have widescreen TVs. And I don't think that many people have widescreen TVs at the present time.

That's where TVs are headed though. When future generations watch these reruns, the widescreens will be in the proper format, and kids will complain about old shows with "black bars on the sides."

-Terminatah

[Duke]

It also pissed many Cowboy Bebop fans off when CN lost the tape to episode 22, a fan favorite. They did find the tape for the second airing (two months later!), but it makes you wonder why they would have this strategy that allows a simple boneheaded mistake to screw up everything. It was literally chaos on the boards here when CN ran a different episode in #22's place. People screaming murder and cursing and barfighting... such politeness.

I thought #22 was skipped during the first run because of 9/11, then in the second run, the Sunday airing had a different tape (If they had skipped it, they would have shown the next episode, not Episode #12 or whatever was shown [Somewhere around 12]), and it eventually ran on Thursday night.

[ryeck]

The biggest problem I had with the widescreen showing of "Maid of Honor" was that a good 30 seconds at the beginning of part 2 was cut out, namely the scene with Bats reviving Diana in the barn and Diana talking about crashing the wedding between Audrey and Savage. What a rip-off, that scene was rather important in moving the story along. This was worse than the widescreen showing of "Only A Dream".