Terry Vs Joker????

[Harley J]

Spoiler:

Terry Beat Batman

I just can't believe it. It so bad i mean lets face it when Bruce was in his prime he had trouble with the Joker. How long did it take Bruce to stop him and even when he did it cost Tim Drake his sanity. So i think it sucks that Terry was able to beat the Joker in ohh let me think 60 seconds.
It makes me so Angry the way he totaly shows the Joker up as well. If it was not Batman Beyond Terry would have been killed for sure.

[Rahziel]

hey that's the breaks! Joker was vain enought to show McGinnis where the chip was and paid for it. Also, Joker got overconfident that he could read all of the techniques that Bruce taught Terry and didn't realize that Terry was a streetfigher long before he was Batman. without doing any drastic harm to Tim's body, he psyched him out in a way Bruce never thought of. why? because terry is outside the picture and could analize the joker/batman situation in ways they couldn't. he simply used it to his advantage and it worked, plain and simple....

Originally posted by Harley J

Spoiler:

Terry Beat Batman

I just can't believe it. It so bad i mean lets face it when Bruce was in his prime he had trouble with the Joker. How long did it take Bruce to stop him and even when he did it cost Tim Drake his sanity. So i think it sucks that Terry was able to beat the Joker in ohh let me think 60 seconds.
It makes me so Angry the way he totaly shows the Joker up as well. If it was not Batman Beyond Terry would have been killed for sure.

[Harley J]

Even if Joker revealed his secret about the chip (which i agree was stupid) he still would have been able to take down a simple street fighter. I admit the point about terry looking at it from an outsiders opinion is true but despite all those things Joker still would have not lost it that bad. He would of easily killed Terry

[Rahziel]

In Joker's days, bruce faught him with some degree of honor. joker would have never expected Batman to hit him with a low-blow and talk back to him insult-to-insult. that took Joker totally by surprise and caused him to lose it and start throwing bombs like a maniac. Terry was prepared for that. You can't deny that because he had the joy buzzer in his hand the whole time and took joker down with it. are you telling me that he wouldn't defeated the original joker if he shocked him in the same area? come on...........

Originally posted by Harley J
Even if Joker revealed his secret about the chip (which i agree was stupid) he still would have been able to take down a simple street fighter. I admit the point about terry looking at it from an outsiders opinion is true but despite all those things Joker still would have not lost it that bad. He would of easily killed Terry

[Rahziel]

Original body or not, that was JOKER!!!!! No matter how bad ya hate it, he got the job done. not just a simple streetfighter, a streetfighter under bruce's tutilege. In My eyes, he has proven himself as a successor( not a replacement) to the original batman. Hec, even the JLU gave him his dues. Everybody's player-hating the kid, it seems like jealousy to me. Dini and Timm both said on the DVD commentary that the battle was to shut down all the questioning of terry's abilities. it just brought out more. one more thing, imagine if somehow, that was the complete original Joker and terry went about stopping him the same way, sent him to arkham and ended the movie on the not that he would again be free to come back to gotham? something like this could have been a great spin-off to a new BB season!!!!

Originally posted by Harley J
Even if Joker revealed his secret about the chip (which i agree was stupid) he still would have been able to take down a simple street fighter. I admit the point about terry looking at it from an outsiders opinion is true but despite all those things Joker still would have not lost it that bad. He would of easily killed Terry

[Peace Keeper]

Why does everybody make such a big deal about Terry's suit. It's not cheating. Wayne was a much better fighter, but he wasn't BRUCE LEE. The fact that the suit amplifies the wearers strength 10 fold makes the show a bit more realistic. Now Terry can fight robots, manimals, and 300 lb steroidaly enhanced athletes. You want to talk about fads (in reference to the "IS BATMAN BEYOND A FAD?" thread)---that whole "Terry goes to Karate" class episode was a perfect example of how the current Asian fad has influenced the show. It's like when the Karate Kid first came out; Right now, martial arts is considered trendy b/c of CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON. And anime is trendy (or was) b/c of DBZ. I like how Terry gets his ***** kicked in every episode. They shouldn't try to make him a ninja. Under the mask, he's just a regular guy.

Do you remember in BABLE when Bruce says that shizat about the suit not making Batman, it's the person inside? Well he was wrong. It totally is the suit. If Bruce had the suit back then, he could have beaten the Joker too.

[Rahziel]

You're right, alot of people do not see how hard terry has it. The villians in BB are alot stronger, superpowered and other good stuff. The batsuit is pretty much an equilizer to the situation. Not a cheat device. the suit doesn't even enhance his fighting skills, it mainly enhances his agility, strength and durability. the batsuit is a just weapon in his time....

Originally posted by Peace Keeper
Why does everybody make such a big deal about Terry's suit. It's not cheating. Wayne was a much better fighter, but he wasn't BRUCE LEE. The fact that the suit amplifies the wearers strength 10 fold makes the show a bit more realistic. Now Terry can fight robots, manimals, and 300 lb steroidaly enhanced athletes. You want to talk about fads (in reference to the "IS BATMAN BEYOND A FAD?" thread)---that whole "Terry goes to Karate" class episode was a perfect example of how the current Asian fad has influenced the show. It's like when the Karate Kid first came out; Right now, martial arts is considered trendy b/c of CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON. And anime is trendy (or was) b/c of DBZ. I like how Terry gets his ***** kicked in every episode. They shouldn't try to make him a ninja. Under the mask, he's just a regular guy.

Do you remember in BABLE when Bruce says that shizat about the suit not making Batman, it's the person inside? Well he was wrong. It totally is the suit. If Bruce had the suit back then, he could have beaten the Joker too.

[Kylewayne]

Originally posted by Harley J

I just can't believe it. It so bad i mean lets face it when Bruce was in his prime he had trouble with the Joker. How long did it take Bruce to stop him and even when he did it cost Tim Drake his sanity. So i think it sucks that Terry was able to beat the Joker in ohh let me think 60 seconds.

Ya, I agree with you on this one Harley J. I was a bit pissed off that Terry was able to beat the Joker in a matter of minutes while Bruce had dedicated practically his whole life to it! ...even loosing a Tim Drake for a while. I also found a bit irritating that Terry was able to solve the mystery about WHO was the Joker. They made Bruce look kinda stupid in ROTJ. Since when is Terry a detective now! Bruce has skills as a detective but not Terry. Don't get me wrong people!!!....I like the ROTJ movie but they could've worked on the ending a little bit.

Originally posted by Peace Keeper

Do you remember in BABLE when Bruce says that shizat about the suit not making Batman, it's the person inside? Well he was wrong. It totally is the suit. If Bruce had the suit back then, he could have beaten the Joker too.

Yup!...If Bruce was able to put the batsuit on the Joker would've been toast. And the suit does make TERRY Batman and not the other way around . (Well, that is my opinion anyways...)

[Rahziel]

ROTJ showed the blossoming improvment of Terry as Batman. Bruce would seem a bit narrow minded to the drake/joker connection because that is someone close to him and he wouldn't want to believe it was so. Terry has been becoming a better detective in the series (Revenant, SHRIEK for example) .With the evidence around him: Robin suit the only one ripped up, Drake's "hatred" of the Robin suit, all the tech the Jokerz stole could be used by someone with tim's expertise. Bruce gave him him credit when it was due and told him to check it out. No one thinks Bruce looked dumb, he was just in denial... and like i said above, it's Terry's movie!

Originally posted by kylewayne


Ya, I agree with you on this one Harley J. I was a bit pissed off that Terry was able to beat the Joker in a matter of minutes while Bruce had dedicated practically his whole life to it! ...even loosing a Tim Drake for a while. I also found a bit irritating that Terry was able to solve the mystery about WHO was the Joker. They made Bruce look kinda stupid in ROTJ. Since when is Terry a detective now! Bruce has skills as a detective but not Terry. Don't get me wrong people!!!....I like the ROTJ movie but they could've worked on the ending a little bit.



Yup!...If Bruce was able to put the batsuit on the Joker would've been toast. And the suit does make TERRY Batman and not the other way around . (Well, that is my opinion anyways...)

Spoiler:

ROTJ tidbits

[Harley J]

Terry is in my mind a good Batman but at the level of training he is at in the film , there is no way he could have out smarted Mr J.

But Thinking about this again, Joker has been threw a hugh transformation meaning that if I were him and i reserected my self from the dead (with the chip thingy) I may get a bit big headed and lose it.

Saying all that though I still feel Terry should have no fighted the Joker because he is an amatuer and Jokers the finest criminal there is. Also it should have been Bruce as Batman going head 2 head with Joker for the real last time. Maybe killing each other.

The movie treated Bruce like a moron so it which is a bit up setting because the film is a great piece of work.

[Rahziel]

...but he's not Batman anymore. For more people to accept McGinnis as batman, he has to start thinking for himself more. it sounds funny for people to say "terry sucks and is nothing w/o Bruce" then turn and say " I want Terry to get better as Batman on his own". it's too confusing. Besides, after what Joker did to bruce in ROTJ, i don't think he could have assisted Terry much. Bruce is cool and he and Terry share a great dynamic together. I thinks he really sees Terry as somewhat of a son to him and terry the other way around...

Originally posted by Harley J
Terry is in my mind a good Batman but at the level of training he is at in the film , there is no way he could have out smarted Mr J.

But Thinking about this again, Joker has been threw a hugh transformation meaning that if I were him and i reserected my self from the dead (with the chip thingy) I may get a bit big headed and lose it.

Saying all that though I still feel Terry should have no fighted the Joker because he is an amatuer and Jokers the finest criminal there is. Also it should have been Bruce as Batman going head 2 head with Joker for the real last time. Maybe killing each other.

The movie treated Bruce like a moron so it which is a bit up setting because the film is a great piece of work.

[James Harvey]

He wasn't treated like a dork. He was portrayed as a *gasp* scared man, afraid his past would hurt the ones he loves. I think the showdown between Terry and Joker was better becuase it was a rite of passage for Terry. Plus, Batman and Joker not having the final duke out is the ultimate joke on Batman. We always expected them to duke it out to the death. This way Batman retains his 'I don't kill' stance, and also is the victim of a joke. I loved it. Bruce was treated more like a person in this film.

[Harley J]

Yeah I see what you mean and dont get me wrong i like Terry I just feel like it's way to early for Terry to be able to take on the Joker by him self(Even though the movie has no set time structure with the series, i was watching the 2ed season when i saw ROTJ so i can only look at terry on how he performed in the 1st and 2ed season).

DG i have to admit your idea on the way bruce was presented has made me think more , but i still would luvv to see Joker beat terry up maybe a little bit more than he did, he could have at least damaged the suit with a bomb or something.

[Rahziel]

To me, it's about time Terry used his Noggin more! In ROTJ he used it. Instead of being stubborn enough to keep taking a whupin' from Joker, he used other means to beat him. that sounds like Batman if you ask me; going for the enemy's weakness. If i was fighting someone i couldn't handle in way way, I'd look for another way too instead of getting my butt kicked. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Harley J
[B]Yeah I see what you mean and dont get me wrong i like Terry I just feel like it's way to early for Terry to be able to take on the Joker by him self(Even though the movie has no set time structure with the series, i was watching the 2ed season when i saw ROTJ so i can only look at terry on how he performed in the 1st and 2ed season).

[James]

I just can't believe it. It so bad i mean lets face it when Bruce was in his prime he had trouble with the Joker. How long did it take Bruce to stop him and even when he did it cost Tim Drake his sanity. So i think it sucks that Terry was able to beat the Joker in ohh let me think 60 seconds.

Okay, this is my opinion.........

I don't think Joker being beaten by Terry is that far fetched. The Joker, while a pretty competent fighter, is not a fighter. He talks, distracts the opponent and then makes his move. On a one on one, the Joker is beatable by both Bruce and Terry.
Bruce could have beaten him many times over, but that's not how
the Joker works. The Joker makes sure he keeps Bats out of a one on one situation and allows his goons to take the brunt of the battle. When Bats is forced into a hands on battle normally he takes the Joker down reasonably easily.

As in ROTJ, for example, when Batman takes Joker on, one on one he fails but he has allowed the Joker to bait him and cloud his actions. That's why Bruce's advise to Terry is not let Joker distract you. Terry turns the table by taunting the Joker which means the Joker gets careless, just as Bats did in the flashback, and gets way too close to Terry.

The Joker is not a fighter, but he is an excellent manipulator. However, if you take away his toys, his goons and ignore his large mouth he isn't that much ahead from your common crook..... and that's what Terry - Batman - managed to strip him down to.

Final point. Generally, people are exaggerating Terry's success against the Joker. Almost as if he managed to destroy the Joker in a way Bruce never did. I think a far closer parallel is that Terry's success over the Joker was no different to one of Batman's many victories.
If we assume that the Joker had been real and not a chip, then Terry would have treated the Joker the same way as Bruce had - taken him to the authorities. Terry handled the Joker in pretty much the way Bruce would have. More proof that he is worthy of the mantle.

[Harley J]

Thinking about it , in Joker's favor the guy Joker calls his hobby turned the tables on him , so in some ways joker can't take a joke even a good one. I still will always feel though that Terry is not and should never be in the same league as Joker.
Joker would win end of story

[James]

still will always feel though that Terry is not and should never be in the same league as Joker.

I don't see why not - Terry was trained by THE expert on the psychotic - and let's face it Bruce, takes one to know one......

Joker was beat fair and square... and it wasn't an easy fight... just because it was short doesn't mean it was straightforward.

Remember it was the first time the Joker had met Terry.. so he had no idea what this Bat would be like (in fact his error was assuming incorrectly what he'd be like!!!).

Next time Joker will be better prepared.

Oh yes, I forgot. There won't be a next time because Terry whipped his pale little butt!

[Rahziel]

Joker's gone, beaten in a battle with no distractions, straightforward in to the point, just like you said. I totally agree.

Originally posted by SJJ


I don't see why not - Terry was trained by THE expert on the psychotic - and let's face it Bruce, takes one to know one......

Joker was beat fair and square... and it wasn't an easy fight... just because it was short doesn't mean it was straightforward.

Remember it was the first time the Joker had met Terry.. so he had no idea what this Bat would be like (in fact his error was assuming incorrectly what he'd be like!!!).

Next time Joker will be better prepared.

Oh yes, I forgot. There won't be a next time because Terry whipped his pale little butt!

[Failure]

Well, if you look at it, Bruce had beaten Joker many times. Remember in Mad Love where Bruce knocks him off the train and into the smoke stacks? Yet, somehow, someway, the Joker survives. The thing that makes Terry defeating the Joker seem so much more "final" is that when Terry beat him, the writers made it so that there would be no way for Joker to come back. I think that's the big difference.

[Rahziel]

i just think too many are upset that Joker's final defeat was at the hands of the rookie Batman and not Bruce. anyway, he passed a very difficult test by taking on Bruce's biggest foe and winning.

Originally posted by Failure
Well, if you look at it, Bruce had beaten Joker many times. Remember in Mad Love where Bruce knocks him off the train and into the smoke stacks? Yet, somehow, someway, the Joker survives. The thing that makes Terry defeating the Joker seem so much more "final" is that when Terry beat him, the writers made it so that there would be no way for Joker to come back. I think that's the big difference.