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View Poll Results: "Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Part One" Feature

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  1. #11
    Yojimbo's Avatar
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    The changes in the movie versus the original material was fun to look out for in the second viewing. It was interesting that they made Part 1 primarily a Gotham story - all aspects of the outside world aside from them mentioning Lana was in Metropolis were stripped away
    1. The woman yelling at Bruce in the car was Carol Ferris in the comics
    2. Any mention of the President and his staff (like Chuck Brick) were absent in the movie.
    3. The messages from Clark and Selina were omitted
    4. No mention of the Corto Maltese crisis

    Certain changes and omissions like renaming the Twin Towers to Gotham Life Building, the Batman inspired porn theater shooting, the subway bombing/murder of Margaret Corcoran, Hot Gates, and Iron Man Vasquez made sense. And sure sign of the times, Two-Face demands $22 million instead of $5 million but with the duality theme, it makes more sense anyhow. But it was funny how Gotham Security Trust was renamed Gotham City Trust (place where Two-Face and henchmen committed robbery). But leaving out Carrie's Girl Scouts answer when mending Batman, omitting Carrie and Michelle's two lines about school before the Mutants surrounded them... Sarah Essen's name not mentioned, just 'wife'? Taking away the reference to Kennedy? What's wrong with those ones?

    But eliminating or reworking some of Batman and Gordon's monologues tightened up the story - the framing was kind of off - that's what I liked about the Year One adaptation - listening to Bruce and Jim think.

    Aside from those nitpicks, with every movie, I go in knowing the vehicles will look awful. And aside from the Batmobile, I was right again.

    But Christopher Drake hit it out of the park with the music again. The Gotham Life Building scenes, Mutant Leader battles, Robin and Batman in the Batmobile - all great stuff. Very much like a 80s soundtrack that's been revitalized. Likewise, the voice acting was perfect in this one. Did my heart good to hear Maria Canals again in particular.

    Favorite Moments - Robin - "Didn't suck," Robin and Batman bonding in the Batmobile, Batman - surgeon, "Darling" and the comic book shout outs to Swamp Thing, Sandman, V for Vendetta, Watchmen, and Crisis on Infinite Earths.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Liu View Post
    I love how the ending sets up the Joker plot for the next movie. In the original graphic novel, the Joker wakes up from his catatonia right after Batman's first night out and then starts acting as the player behind the scenes until his breakout in chapter 3. Here, it really seems more like the Joker's awakening is the result of the media over-saturation about Batman -- it takes quite a while before he fully wakes up (and it also leads to that really supremely awesome final scene).
    Me, too. It was a good call to build up the Joker's awakening rather than have him working behind the scenes. "Darling." So perfect a way to end Part 1 but funny Michael Emerson had essentially two words to say then the majority of his work is in Part 2. It was ironic that Book 2 ended with Bruce smiling while Part One, here, ends with Joker smiling.

    If anything, I thought the TV newscasts were too simple. There needed to be floating tickers and bugs and news headlines running under the screen and the occasional network bug in the corner. I'm not a fan of TV news, if you couldn't tell .
    Wasn't it simple like that in the comic?

    I can totally understand why they condensed and simplified the Harvey Dent plot, and I think the idea that he could be hurting himself and that he's living out his death wish is interesting. However, all the changes in total make that plot a little less workable. In the book, Dent robbed the bank to pay the Joker to make bombs
    Well, I didn't really like that they condensed the initial news blurb about Two-Face's origins, not everyone knows who he is. Sorta cheapens him to a mere terrorist in this movie unless you're really paying attention to all the duality. The heist really does feel like an odd ball with the Joker not involved. But I guess it was part of Harvey's compulsion to tip Batman off that a big crime was coming up.

    I was disappointed that they dropped the line Batman has about hoping it wasn't Harvey, despite all evidence to the contrary. It said a lot about Batman and his sense of hope, and set up a subtle but important contrast between Batman's relationship to Two-Face and Batman's relationship to the Joker.
    Exactly. But the "You and me both" line sort a made up for it.

    In regards to a question in the News thread, nobody asked about a special edition when part 2 was released, but I'll make sure to put that down for NY Comic Con when they're back, assuming it hasn't been answered before then.
    Cool, thanks Ed.
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  2. #12
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    Really enjoyed this movie. It's been a while since I've read the comic, so I can't really say how accurate of an adaptation it is, but I like what I see. It's dark and edgy; just how I like my Batman.

    Voice acting was pretty solid. Peter Weller was great as MillerBats; I think I prefer him over Michael Ironside. Ariel Winter, David Selby, Wade Williams, Gary Anthony Williams, Maria Canals Barberra etc. were very good too. I noticed voice "appearances" from the likes of James Arnold Taylor, Dee Bradley Baker, Rob Paulsen, Yuri Lowenthal, Jim Ward and others; it's nice that they used a lot of voice actors in conjunction with on-screen ones.

    Can't wait for Part Two!

  3. #13
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    I have to say it gets better the more you watch it. As a huge fan of the original story it was hard to disconnect at times on the first viewing. The second time I was aware of the changes and just enjoyed the adaptation. Focusing on the nice animation and brilliant music. Seriously awesome. If this is the DC Direct swan songs then they picked the right stories.

  4. #14
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    Going to wait until the rental box gets it. Sounds like it's worth the purchase but I'd like to buy both parts at once.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yojimbo View Post
    But leaving out Carrie's Girl Scouts answer when mending Batman, [...] What's wrong with those ones?
    ...Because Girl Scouts don't do that kind of stuff anymore, it's all arts and cookies now. You know how disappointed I was as a kid that I couldn't do the things the boys were doing?
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by defunctzombie View Post
    ...Because Girl Scouts don't do that kind of stuff anymore, it's all arts and cookies now. You know how disappointed I was as a kid that I couldn't do the things the boys were doing?
    They don't? Wow. That's...not good.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yojimbo View Post
    But leaving out Carrie's Girl Scouts answer when mending Batman, omitting Carrie and Michelle's two lines about school before the Mutants surrounded them... Sarah Essen's name not mentioned, just 'wife'? Taking away the reference to Kennedy? What's wrong with those ones?
    I wouldn't attribute those to anything more than running time demands. As it is, grafting parts 1 and 2 makes the pacing of the movie a bit off, and I felt like the decisions that they made to cut and edit and simplify were to keep things moving as fast as possible. I don't mind this in principle, since it succeeded, but that's also the kind of texture that I missed from the book. Then again, this happens a lot in book-to-screen adaptations. Books can take that time to build texture and depth and things like the random acts of violence that are vaguely connected to Batman in the book. Besides, throwaway lines still require pencil mileage if only to keep things happening on screen and then do lip sync if necessary.

    I also think on some level, mentioning Sarah's name would have been more confusing, not less. In the book, the internal monologues about her make it clear who Sarah is and what he means to Jim Gordon. Cut those out and you're left with Gordon referring to someone named "Sarah" who we never see, and unless you already know who she is, you're going to be wondering, "Who's Sarah?" You can solve that by adding a scene that can make it more explicit who she is, but that's time taken away from the main stories, and see above for the running time/pacing thing. We'll see if she gets named in part 2.

    Wasn't it simple like that in the comic?
    Yes, but this is a case where I think real world dystopia outstripped what Frank Miller had in mind at the time. In some ways, the movie is a 1980's period piece just as JL: New Frontier was a 1950's period piece (and I think superhero movies should be more willing to do that), but in this case I think an update to the uglier, ADD newscasts would have made the point about media oversaturation a bit more up-to-date and relevant. I think Miller was half-criticizing/half-validating the 24-hour news cycle that was still relatively new in the mid-1980's when he first wrote the book, but the world has far outstripped what he had in mind.

    Side note: All this time, in the book I thought that Gordon's (and eventually Yindel's) right-hand man "Merkel" was supposed to be the same "Merkel" who appears in Batman: Year One. Watching this movie and finally seeing him clearly, it suddenly makes a lot mores sense that this Merkel is the original's son, who become a cop like his dad and eventually Gordon's right hand again. Also says something about Gordon's longevity (or stubbornness) to stay in the job.
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  7. #17
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    Okay, now this was great!


    What I liked about this DTV:

    First, the animation was superb. It really makes up for the last couple of DC DTV's.

    Having not read the original graphic novel in quite some time, there were some things I had forgotten. I really loved that they kept this in the 80's. I kept telling my wife and son that this was going to be a future story of Batman, but different than Batman Beyond. He'll be old, but not as old, and there won't be too much high tech stuff, besides the Bat-tank, nor a Blade Runner-like Gotham City. I knew the producers were going to be faithful to the source, but I guess I didn't think about it taking place after Jason Todd's death. Which means it's an alternate future for Batman, but set in our alternate past. There was no return for Jason as the Red Hood. There never was a Tim Drake. This essentially remained exactly what the comic is -- an 80's Elseworld-like period piece, just like the Watchmen movie. And I loved that!

    I also loved the soundtrack, which reflected the John Carpenter-like scores of the 80's with it's use of synthesizers. Very fitting.

    I think the producers did a great job of streamlining the story for an animated adaptation. It felt like a complete enough story, despite being only a Part 1, and it worked well with establishing everything needed, including the mutant gangs as the villains, and gave you a nice cut-off point/set-up with The Joker's return for Part 2.

    I've always loved The Dark Knight Returns, despite how much it's been copied, and even perverted by Miller's own additional stories, like The Dark Knight Strikes Again and All Star Batman and Robin, which were just ridiculously terrible. It was cool seeing Batman extreme enough here that he totally resembled Frank Miller's original rendition of the character, where he's physically big and burly and basically bent psychologically, yet not quite as horrifically insane as Miller would have him be in those later stories, which were like bad parodies of The Dark Knight Returns.

    I really thought it was interesting that in the preview for Part 2, Bruce Timm comments on how Superman fans despise what happens to the Man of Steel. It's true, but hey, that's the way it was in the story, and I'm glad that's what we'll be seeing in the next DTV.


    One question: It says Part 2 will be released in Winter 2013. By that, they mean January or February 2013, right? Please don't tell me we have to wait until December 2013.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Fan Beyond View Post
    One question: It says Part 2 will be released in Winter 2013. By that, they mean January or February 2013, right? Please don't tell me we have to wait until December 2013.
    Yes, part 2 is coming early next year, not the following winter. I suppose it would probably have been less confusing to say "1st quarter 2013," since winter is the one season that stretches across the year boundary.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Liu View Post
    Yes, part 2 is coming early next year, not the following winter. I suppose it would probably have been less confusing to say "1st quarter 2013," since winter is the one season that stretches across the year boundary.
    Cool, thanks! Can't wait!

  10. #20
    Yojimbo's Avatar
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    Good points, Ed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Fan Beyond View Post
    One question: It says Part 2 will be released in Winter 2013. By that, they mean January or February 2013, right? Please don't tell me we have to wait until December 2013.
    Yeah, they were going by industry way of saying Quarter 1 2013 as Ed said. Last three years, it's been the last week of February so February 26, 2013 seems like the most logical guess for Part 2's release date.
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