toonzoneAnimation News : Blog : Forums : TV Schedules : Wiki : Comics : Hosted : CD! : Forums  
Loading

toonzone forums - Powered by vBulletin

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 32
  1. #1
    Nygma's Avatar
    Nygma is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,246
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Vandal Savage (Justice League) vs. Vandal Savage (Young Justice)

    Like This Thread!
    This is an article from GregX's (the reviewer of Young Justice) blog that I found, that I think is pretty interesting. It's basically an analysis on both takes that we've seen on television up till this point:

    [top]Vandal Savage VS Vandal Savage






    I originally wrote this on a forum where some of us were debating which versions of Vandal Savage were better. The one from "Justice League" or the one from "Young Justice." Well, I sided with the YJ one, and my post also turned into a scathing critique of the three-part "Savage Time" from the end of JL's first season. I'll probably edit this, and expand it a bit from the original post, but here it is.

    Let's start with casting. Phil Morris and Miguel Ferrer are excellent voice actors, both sound sinister and carry an air of intelligence and charm to sinister voices. But just listen to Phil Morris' Vandal Savage talk some time. He speaks very fast, like he's constantly in a hurry. Like he's very, very impatient.

    Miguel Ferrer, by contrast, sounds very patient and methodical. He's been alive for fifty thousand years, this is a guy who knows how to wait. A true schemer. A real predator who stalks his prey. He's calculating dozens of ways to stick the knife in you.

    The design for him is also better. He looks prehistoric. He still looks human, while at the same time looking not quite human, like a neanderthal. The one in JL just looked relatively normal. Being immortal was just a gimmick, but didn't seem to factor in to his mannerisms, the way he carried himself.

    That and this Savage's plans actually seem to be working. The one in JL actually got defeated by the time the episode was over, both times. It doesn't help that there was no logic at all to the time travel... okay, so he sends himself a laptop with plans, builds new weapons and gear, takes over the Third Reich and turns back the invasion of Normandy. Then gets defeated when his big jets crash into the water. So the Nazis need someone to lead them and decide to thaw out Hitler.

    Let's go into what was wrong with this plot line.

    - The Nazis had A LOT of tech left over created from Savage's laptop. There had to be copies among copies of plans and blueprints passed out so all of this stuff could be built. He couldn't conduct a war, run the Axis, and build these things all by himself, as well as keep the laptop a secret... he had people working on these things. Plans and specs were copied and passed around. More of these things could be made without him, and without the laptop... by this point, the Allies could not win.

    - "The old Fuhrer may have been a little crazy, but at least he had respect for his generals." Um, anybody who has read a book about Hitler knows this was not the case. Hell, he had most of his generals declared traitors. They got the crazy part right, but not the respect for his generals.

    - So, when Savage is gone, the Nazis just happen to decide to thaw out Hitler so he could lead them to victory? At this point, a lot of the higher brass thought Hitler was leading them to defeat. So many of them conspired to kill him. It's far more likely Himmler would have come to power... but considering the circumstances and true history that was going on, they'd have left ol' Uncle Adolf in the fridge.

    - History was still irreparably altered. Normandy was still an epic defeat for the Allies. The League didn't change that. Assuming you buy into the notion that history can be changed at all via time travel (I don't), the world the JL would have come to would have been far different than the one they called home. Even if by some miracle the Nazis were defeated, with the advanced tech they still have, you know who would have likely acquired it next? Russia. The Cold War would likely have gone very, very differently. None of the existing tech just vanished when Savage crashed into the ocean. If you're going to write a time travel story where history can be altered, you really need to stop and think about the implications of such things.

    "Maid of Honor" is better, but they could have used any wannabe Bond villain for that.

    And "Hereafter" would have been far more poignant if Superman and Savage had ever met each other on screen before this.


    Granted, we won't find out until Saturday just how well YJ's Vandal Savage arc worked out, assuming it ends next week (which I won't assume). But he was smart, operating from the shadows, and slowly moving his pieces into place and now he has the entire Justice League under his control. We'll see where this goes next, but this Savage is absolutely terrifying.

    Whilst I don't think as lowly of Justice League's take on Vandal Savage as he seems to, I agree with just about everything else about Vandal Savage. Though I'd also argue that if Uncle Adolf was such a problem for them, I think they should've gone with "the direct approach" instead of just freezing him. Though the problems with the outcomes of The Savage Time I blame more on Season 1 sloppiness than anything that was wrong with the character himself.

    I to prefer Young Justice's take on Vandal Savage. From Miguel Ferrer's voice, his elegant cave man design, the way he carries himself, him being a physical threat when needed, to the writing on him. This version of Vandal Savage is the balls.

    What are everyone else's thoughts on Vandal Savage in Young Justice compared to how he was portrayed in other mediums like Justice League?
    "Don't cry over spilled milk, get angry and punch a cow!"
    -Stephen Colbert

  2. #2
    reflection is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,123
    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    And
    "Hereafter" would have been far more poignant if Superman and Savage had ever met each other on screen before this.

    Agreed. Villian-centric JL eps like Twilight and The Terror Beyond built on the villain's prior interactions with the lead heroes. Hereafter didn't have that advantage. It also would have helped if Vandal Savage had been in on the plot that transmitted Superman in the first place.

    It would have been better if Savage was a known immortal from the beginning in JL as well.

  3. #3
    Bobbywoodhogan's Avatar
    Bobbywoodhogan is offline I Will Find Him!
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Leeds
    Posts
    1,226
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    I think the Young Justice version is better but I like the DCAU version, Phil Morris is fantastic as Vandal Savage and I would say I prefer his voice but prefer YJ design wise. The JL: Doom version is probably my favourite as its similar in design to YJ but has the fantastic Phil Morris as Savage.
    Consider Yourself Impeached - Superman to Lex Luthor (Superman/Batman: Public Enemies)

  4. #4
    BigFatHairyDeal's Avatar
    BigFatHairyDeal is offline Defender of the Universe
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,990
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    While I can agree that "Hereafter" would've been better if Savage and Superman met on screen prior, I think that version is perhaps the most refreshing take on the sinister megalomaniac. A lot of baddies want to take over the world, but very few have actually done so and lived long enough to regret it. He was the right blend of eccentricity, remorse, and enlightenment. Maybe that makes him less interesting of a villain, but to me that makes him a more interesting character.

  5. #5
    Bobbywoodhogan's Avatar
    Bobbywoodhogan is offline I Will Find Him!
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Leeds
    Posts
    1,226
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatHairyDeal View Post
    While I can agree that "Hereafter" would've been better if Savage and Superman met on screen prior, I think that version is perhaps the most refreshing take on the sinister megalomaniac. A lot of baddies want to take over the world, but very few have actually done so and lived long enough to regret it. He was the right blend of eccentricity, remorse, and enlightenment. Maybe that makes him less interesting of a villain, but to me that makes him a more interesting character.
    Totally agree, part 2 of Hereafter's awesome and part of that is how quirky Vandal Savage is, I love that he's suceeded in conquering the world and has seen what a mistake he's made it really is refreshing.
    Last edited by Bobbywoodhogan; 04-18-2012 at 08:04 AM.
    Consider Yourself Impeached - Superman to Lex Luthor (Superman/Batman: Public Enemies)

  6. #6
    spartanx54 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    623
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Hmm, tough choice. YJ Savage is definitely more sinister and well....just overall awesome. I really like his costume in YJ also and Miguel Ferrer gives a stellar performance. As a fan of "Hereafter" I also really like DCAU Savage, his portrayal in "Hereafter was great. Savage showed a lot of hospitality and showed the good side of him.

    I really like both, but I gotta give it to YJ.
    ​"Anyone can be a hero, even a man who did something so simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a young boy's shoulders, to let him know the world hadn't ended."- Bruce Wayne/Batman

  7. #7
    quigonkenny is offline Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    544
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    I certainly don't agree with the take on "The Savage Time", but one of my personal pet peeves is someone knocking "time travel story X" because "that's not how time travel works". Until Doc Brown invents the flux capacitor, and science figures out how to get a DeLorean up to 88 MPH using banana peels and half-empty beer bottles, time travel is a simply a writing ploy. It works however that particular author wants it to work, and doesn't have to work the same as it did in "time travel story Y". Sure, "The Savage Time" certainly had its share of plot holes (and then some), but it was a heck of a lot of fun.

    As for Savage himself, I certainly expect to enjoy the YJ version more than the DCAU version for the same reason I have enjoyed most every YJ character more than their DCAU counterparts: better writing. Not to knock Timm, Dini, and all their DCAU cohorts, but I've always been a sucker for the kind of consistent, coherent storyline that Weisman puts into all his series (at least as long as he has control). It's much more a "one vision" than even BTAS was, and that always helps to make even the little things better (like a villainous mastermind who's had, what, 7-8 lines so far, and not a one of them wasted).

    I do love the DCAU design for Savage, though. While his rugged caveman good looks aren't as overt as those on the YJ version (arguably the only thing about DCAU!Savage that is more subtle), they're still there. And he certainly better carries off the irony of a smarmy yet aristocratically arrogant caveman...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    575
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    I'll admit, I was never a fan of Vandal Savage in JL, except for maybe his "redemption" in "Hereafter". JL: Doom was what made me really like Vandal Savage as a villain, leading the Legion of Doom and all. YJ has certainly helped things, leading "The Light" and having the entire 20+ members of the League bowing down to him. Bad. Ass.

  9. #9
    the greenman's Avatar
    the greenman is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    the point of no return
    Posts
    4,385
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    I think YJ's Savage is specifically meant to be their arch nemesis. He has existed for their progenitors, the JSA, and will likely be around for their ancestors, the LOSH. For a show about generations, he is their Darkseid. I actually kinda hope that Savage's ultimatum is to not only takeover the earth, but as it seems to use all of earth's forces to defend against Apokalips invasion.

  10. #10
    AlgeaX's Avatar
    AlgeaX is offline Oh, hello?
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Underwater Lair
    Posts
    2,305
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    I think this topic deserves a bump now that Auld Acquaintances has aired.

    One thing that really dig about YJ Savage is that he's not acting solely out of simple megalomania, the man has an ideology and a cause which arguably makes him more dangerous then if he was acting out of simple self-interest.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

 
toonzone quick jump
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO