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  1. #21
    Gold Starz's Avatar
    Gold Starz is offline "Evil Resides In Crystal Cove"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afalstein View Post
    A complaint. DCAU Savage was one who evolved with the times, this Savage doesn't look to have evolved at all. Top post says his slow voice makes him sound patient, I think it makes him sound like a slow thinker. DCAU Savage was an articulate man. And YJ Savage's speech would have been a lot more interesting and justifiable if he hadn't been so obviously a flaw in his own plan.
    I have no clue what you're talking about with any of this. How was he a flaw in his own plan? How does he talk slow?



    Because the army of thugs conveys his ability not just to convince a few elite people, but also truly administer a massive organization. YJ Savage isn't a warlord so much as a team leader.
    Yes, because convincing some of the most stubborn, arrogant people in the world all of whom are extremely dangerous to listen to him, let alone agree with him. And surely an army of grunts who are easily smacked around are OBVIOUSLY superior to villains with superpowers or highly advanced training.



    Not having seen much of Savage in the comics, can't comment on that. But I was speaking of the JL Savage, who accidentally destroyed the Earth with his gravity weapon My point was that in the JL, Savage DID destroy the League and conquer the world.. it just led to its destruction and had to be reversed by a time-traveling Superman.
    And all it took was to fight the League when they were mourning Superman, and had Lobo screwing everything up for them. Yep, surely he would've won on a normal day.


    He's adequate to the occasion. And he's slick and sly. On the other hand, he's also not a) commanding an army of supervillains, b) keeping a nano-tech world-destroying robot in his gut, c) approaching near god-hood. YJ Luthor is still fun in his own way, I'm just saying he's not the powerhouse he was in JLU.
    A. He is commanding an army of supervillains or did you miss that entire season.

    B. He didn't do that, Braniac did.

    C. Frankly, if that hadn't been the season finale, he wouldn't have been much of a threat. There both powerful enemies, but even combined they aren't THAT powerful.

  2. #22
    BigFatHairyDeal's Avatar
    BigFatHairyDeal is offline Defender of the Universe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gold Starz View Post
    Also, I don't believe this is much of an upgrade for Vandal, as much as JL was a downgrade for him.
    I don't see how he was a downgrade on that show. His scientific mind was off the charts. He invented his own time machine, and with the help of a stolen Ray Palmer device, was able to create a machine that manipulated gravity so effectively it threw the planets of the solar system out of whack. His zero-point generator was "for all intents and purposes a miniature sun." Not bad a for a Cro-Magnon fella. You can say he wasn't wise enough to realize the folly of his plan, but that applies to just about every villain on that show, including Luthor and Brainiac.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afalstein View Post
    Not having seen much of Savage in the comics, can't comment on that. But I was speaking of the JL Savage, who accidentally destroyed the Earth with his gravity weapon My point was that in the JL, Savage DID destroy the League and conquer the world.. it just led to its destruction and had to be reversed by a time-traveling Superman.
    I have to watch that episode again, but did he conquer the world or did he just destroy it?

    Personally, I think I need to see some more of YJ Savage to make a full judgement, but so far I think it's his best animated incarnation. This is a guy who's happy to sit back and manipulate things behind the scenes, but also doesn't mind jumping in and fighting when he has to. I also really like his design, the bear scars are striking and make him look unique, and he just looks overall more like a savage. I also think that Miguel Ferrer makes him sound really menacing, much more so than Phil Morris.

  4. #24
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    W.C.Reaf is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by suss2it View Post
    I have to watch that episode again, but did he conquer the world or did he just destroy it?
    He destroyed it, then by virtue of being the last person alive he owned all the rocks and dirt he ever could've wanted.

  5. #25
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    He conquered the world with his gravity machine by killing the Justice League and holding the world to ransom. Then his machine went out of control and destroyed the world.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afalstein View Post
    The review of "Auld Acquaintance" even points this out by saying that Savage's insistence on "survival of the fittest" is hypocritical, given his immortality. YJ Savage is awesome in a lot of ways, but he comes across as something of a caveman, who hasn't even been able to heal facial scars.
    Y'know, when you think about it, it might be impossible for him to heal his scars. If he has a very aggressive healing factor that helps make him immortal, then any kind of healing that he could do to his face would be undone by his regeneration. His regeration may force his body to maintain the appearance it had when he first became immortal and thus anything that might change that appearance might be treated like any kind of wound. The only way he could heal the scars is if he found a way to cause damage to himself that his healing factor could not recover from.


    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatHairyDeal View Post
    Even if Doom's Savage had a really quirky plan, it was the opposite of "short-sighted." Here's a guy who hasn't been happy since modern day man became the dominant species on the planet. He's obviously had a lot of time to think about how to regain that feeling, and he knew the only way he'd get it back was to do something drastic. Most importantly, his plan would've worked if not for the incompetence of his hired goons who weren't willing to confirm that they finished the job.
    Doom savage's plan was ruined by himself. The only reason the leauge even knew he was concocting a plan was because he attacked them. If he did not attack them they would never known what he was up to. Given the amount of time it took for him to launch his missile and for it to get to the sun, the only thing Savage needed to do was keep the leauge distracted for about 15-30 minutes. Hell during their fight with the royal flush gang, he could have luanched his missile and doomed the earth before the leauge even knew what was going on. Really, unlike the other incarnations of the justice leauge, the leauge in doom was not smart enough to keep someone in the watch tower on watch duty so that they could notice a sudden threat like that. Speaking of which, the leauge would have never known about his projector if he did not give one to the royal flush gang; really he can test his toys in a lab, he didn't need b-list villians to field test it

    Quote Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
    I certainly don't agree with the take on "The Savage Time", but one of my personal pet peeves is someone knocking "time travel story X" because "that's not how time travel works". Until Doc Brown invents the flux capacitor, and science figures out how to get a DeLorean up to 88 MPH using banana peels and half-empty beer bottles, time travel is a simply a writing ploy. It works however that particular author wants it to work, and doesn't have to work the same as it did in "time travel story Y". Sure, "The Savage Time" certainly had its share of plot holes (and then some), but it was a heck of a lot of fun.
    And one of my pet preeves is when people tell me that i should shut off my brain and ignore all logic and plot holes. Savage Time doesn't even work within its OWN universe as no explanation is ever given for how things worked out the way it did.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afalstein View Post
    He conquered the world with his gravity machine by killing the Justice League and holding the world to ransom. Then his machine went out of control and destroyed the world.
    Oh jeez, that's even worse than I remember. You seriously think that guy is a better villain than the Vandal Savage we have now?

  8. #28
    k.s. is offline Member
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    Afalstein's already said everything I would, so I'll just echo his comments and say that Justice League's Savage far outclasses Young Justice's Savage in voice acting and characterization. That's not to say the YJ's version is bad - I actually like it quite a lot - but if we really are going to compare the two, there's no question in my mind that Justice League had the better version.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by k.s. View Post
    Afalstein's already said everything I would, so I'll just echo his comments and say that Justice League's Savage far outclasses Young Justice's Savage in voice acting and characterization. That's not to say the YJ's version is bad - I actually like it quite a lot - but if we really are going to compare the two, there's no question in my mind that Justice League had the better version.
    Yes, but why? Is it because of the universe he's from? Because he's 'classier'?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monte View Post
    Doom savage's plan was ruined by himself. The only reason the leauge even knew he was concocting a plan was because he attacked them. If he did not attack them they would never known what he was up to. Given the amount of time it took for him to launch his missile and for it to get to the sun, the only thing Savage needed to do was keep the leauge distracted for about 15-30 minutes. Hell during their fight with the royal flush gang, he could have luanched his missile and doomed the earth before the leauge even knew what was going on. Really, unlike the other incarnations of the justice leauge, the leauge in doom was not smart enough to keep someone in the watch tower on watch duty so that they could notice a sudden threat like that. Speaking of which, the leauge would have never known about his projector if he did not give one to the royal flush gang; really he can test his toys in a lab, he didn't need b-list villians to field test it
    I think Savage needed the League taken ought ASAP because as long as they were alive and kicking, they were a big threat to unseat him, pre- or post-apocalypse. It wouldn't be too hard to imagine that a guy like Superman or Green Lantern could possibly survive a solar flare, and then come back to take out Savage. Hiring the goon squad was probably to help him quell any resistance post-apocalypse, and paying them handsomely while aiding them in defeating their personal archnemeses was a way to build their loyalty toward him. I also assumed that enlisting the Royal Flush gang was just a way to create an opportunity for allowing Mirror Master to sneak into the Batcave and steal the pertinent JL files, in addition to beta testing the abilities of the projector.

    In these types of stories, the villains always leave a loose end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gold Starz View Post
    Oh jeez, that's even worse than I remember. You seriously think that guy is a better villain than the Vandal Savage we have now?
    I don't think that makes him a better or worse villain. Maybe it means he's less charismatic than the Young Justice Savage, who was able to bring together many of the world's most heinous supervillains to work together under one cause. Or maybe it means he's just a lot less trusting of colluding with amoral people who would stab him in the back when it suited them (see Prisoner's Dilemma). I do know that if a guy were to go solo into taking out the big seven (or six), he's going to need a lot of power, and not surprisingly it would extremely difficult to be in total control of that kind of power.

  11. #31
    k.s. is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gold Starz View Post
    Yes, but why? Is it because of the universe he's from? Because he's 'classier'?
    I'd say both of those are true, but it's actually a couple of other things for me. As far as voice acting goes, I thought Phil Morris brought a sense of power and confidence to the role that I find lacking in Miguel Ferrer's version. It made me believe that JL Savage was a serious threat while YJ Savage is just a schemer whose associates pose a bigger threat than he does. Also, while Ferrer's Savage sounds menacing, I feel that comes at the price that his voice almost seems slow and monotone at times. I will say though that both VA's made Savage come across as extremely intelligent.

    In terms of storylines and characterization, JL Savage had three different episodes where we got a pretty good look at who he is and why he's doing the things he's doing. The episodes themselves were all great too, so that doesn't hurt. Not to mention how he got an amazing character arc - he starts out in Savage Time as an unrepentant conqueror on the war path, but grows over time. When we see him again in Maid of Honor, it's clear he's learned from his defeat in WW2 by taking a more subtle approach towards taking over the world until his plans reach fruition. (As a side note, I find that downplaying his efforts as "Bond-level villainy" misses the point. Savage wants to rule the world as he did in the past and showed that he still has the power and intelligence to pull it off by himself if not for League intervention. That's a pretty effective villain if you ask me.) Finally, in Hereafter we see how he's learned from his mistakes, becoming an empathetic character and even more three-dimensional than he was in Maid of Honor. His conversations with Superman were some of the best dialogue I've seen in years, especially when you consider how far his character had come.

    In contrast, we've had no more than a few lines of dialogue from YJ Savage in Auld Acquaintance to understand his character and motivation. It was a great scene, mind you, but pales in comparison to the level of depth we've gotten out of the JL version (at least so far). EDIT: And while I personally think it's more amusing and ironic than hypocritical, it's still worth noting that YJ Savage directly contradicts his own plan. He accuses the League of promoting stagnation and believes he heralds change, but this is coming from an immortal caveman.

    Overall though, I should point out that I find they're really very different characters to begin with which makes it hard to do any kind of objective comparison. For instance, JL Savage wanted power and fame while YJ Savage wants control. Can we really say that one motivation is inherently better than the other? We've also seen very little of YJ Savage to really make an informed judgement one way or another compared to the multiple episodes JL Savage had to flesh out his character. So I don't think that YJ Savage is bad by any means, just that what we've seen so far makes the JL Savage the better version overall.
    Last edited by k.s.; 04-29-2012 at 09:47 PM.

  12. #32
    ganon51 is offline Member
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    Justice League Savage. Phil Morris's voice, his design and fantastic episodes all come to mind. I especially liked "Savage Time", it was definitely my favourite JL season 1 episode along with "Injustice For All". As for the YJ and Doom ones, they're the same design, just as with Supes, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter and those versions of him just don't hold up in my book.
    Last edited by ganon51; 10-30-2013 at 11:01 PM.

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