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  1. #41
    90'sCartoonMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobbywoodhogan View Post
    Great read, I'm a big fan of Kyle Rayner and it made sense to use him at the time but Hal will always be my favourite Hal Jordan.
    Hal is my favorite Hal Jordan too, but then again, I can't think of any other Hal Jordans besides Hal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu View Post
    It's worth mentioning that the series never really gave us full on origins for GL, Flash and Hawkgirl (or Batman, but that makes perfect sense to me - I like the mystique surrounding Batman's early days, but I accept others don't).
    Wasn't Mask of the Phantasm technically Batman's origin (although we do see the Waynes die a couple times in other places)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu View Post
    It's not quite as awesome as Starcrossed, of course and I find the conclusion to be disappointing - each viewer obviously has thier own feelings towards it, but I found John's decision to stay with Vixen perplexing - are we to assume that their relationship eventually fizzled? Did John eventually leave her because he knows his future is with Shayera? Was it a one night stand deal?
    Well, John couldn't dump Vixen right after she got the snot beaten out of her. I think their relationship did fizzle out because it was missing something very important - John's heart. Sure, he respected and admired Mari, but he was NEVER in love with her, and she knew that. He was too hurt to go back to Shayera, but time heals all wounds, and I'd like to think John and Mari parted amicably and John eventually married Shayera, who was clearly the only woman for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu View Post
    And he makes a bad ass construct which launches one of the Apokolip war machines into the other - GL and Shayera interactions conclude with "believe half of what you see" and "None of what you here". What do you think? Is there a subliminal message in there somewhere
    I think it's a good sign when two people start finishing each other's sentences.

    Quote Originally Posted by the greenman View Post
    I think it helped John alot by giving him a "little sister" in Supergirl. If you noticed he and Arrow kinda were big brothers and helped sculpt her then even saw her off.
    I tend to think of Supergirl as Superman's little sister, while John and Ollie were more her uncles.

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyBoy View Post
    So, for the GL fans here - did you get hyper seeing the Corps and the Manhunters the first time? Did you feel like little was altered, and the depiction was faithful to the comics?
    Yeah, I got PUMPED watching "In Blackest Night", although I felt they were kinda weak and Shayera was having too easy a time fighting them. I preferred seeing them in "Hearts and Minds" and "The Return", though. Basically, they got better with every appearance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yojimbo View Post
    I thought it was daring for them to bypass the whole "first GL from Earth gets picked by a dying Abin Sur" origin. Implicitly, that speaks volumes of what the Guardians of Universe thought of John Stewart when they inducted him into the Corps more that just he was in the area and the ring found him. As a GL fan, I sorta got the basic idea that John was already Abin's back up/sector partner before Kyle was in the equation - they even gave John a cameo in the S:TAS episode so he was already pre-existing and wasn't just there in "Secret Origins."
    Sometime in the 00's, the comics introduced the idea of sector partners anyway (so they could have both Hal and John as active GLs of 2814 and have Guy and Kyle as Honor Guard), so it would fit the DCAU as well. Whoever John's predecessor may've been was Abin Sur's sector partner of 2814. He or she died, probably in the vicinity of Earth, and the ring went to John. John became Abin Sur's partner in 2814, then Abin Sur died as shown on STAS, and the ring picked Kyle. John was busy with something else, then he came back and sent Kyle to Oa for training and became the main GL of 2814, being the sole Green Lantern in the Justice League because Kyle was off-world.

    Or maybe John was in training that entire time and Abin Sur died, then John finished and came back to Earth to see a new rookie Green Lantern, who he sent off to train.
    "And until we meet again boys and girls, know that wherever evil lurks in all its myriad forms, I'll be there with the hammers of justice to fight for decency and defend the innocent. Goodnight." - Batman

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sCartoonMan View Post
    Sometime in the 00's, the comics introduced the idea of sector partners anyway (so they could have both Hal and John as active GLs of 2814 and have Guy and Kyle as Honor Guard), so it would fit the DCAU as well. Whoever John's predecessor may've been was Abin Sur's sector partner of 2814. He or she died, probably in the vicinity of Earth, and the ring went to John. John became Abin Sur's partner in 2814, then Abin Sur died as shown on STAS, and the ring picked Kyle. John was busy with something else, then he came back and sent Kyle to Oa for training and became the main GL of 2814, being the sole Green Lantern in the Justice League because Kyle was off-world.

    Or maybe John was in training that entire time and Abin Sur died, then John finished and came back to Earth to see a new rookie Green Lantern, who he sent off to train.
    True but I prefer to think Timm and co. thought of it first.

    But more seriously I specifically remember a line of dialogue that stated John was personally chosen by the Guardians of the Universe so it wasn't the usual GL gets slain and ring finds replacement origin. Unfortunately, I can't remember off the top of my head. Might have been Shayera or Katma in "Hearts and Minds." And in that Static Shock episode, it was revealed John was chosen before Sinestro rebelled against the Guardians. Hence why he became 'stuck' on Earth trying to kill John in JL/JLU, he was part of Sinestro's blood oath against GL's that stood up against him.
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  3. #43
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    Bobbywoodhogan is offline I Will Find Him!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sCartoonMan View Post
    Hal is my favorite Hal Jordan too, but then again, I can't think of any other Hal Jordans besides Hal.
    Haha I can't believe I did that of course I meant Green Lantern
    Consider Yourself Impeached - Superman to Lex Luthor (Superman/Batman: Public Enemies)

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sCartoonMan View Post

    Well, John couldn't dump Vixen right after she got the snot beaten out of her. I think their relationship did fizzle out because it was missing something very important - John's heart. Sure, he respected and admired Mari, but he was NEVER in love with her, and she knew that. He was too hurt to go back to Shayera, but time heals all wounds, and I'd like to think John and Mari parted amicably and John eventually married Shayera, who was clearly the only woman for him.


    I tend to think of Supergirl as Superman's little sister, while John and Ollie were more her uncles.
    .
    re: john / mari / shayera -- i don't think it's as simple or straightforward as saying "john was NEVER in love with" mari -- i can't speak for my collaborators, but the way i personally saw it, john ABSOLUTELY was in love with mari, even though he clearly still had (rather deep) feelings for shayera too

    to me, john and shayera's relationship is similar to that of richard burton and liz taylor or robert wagner and natalie wood -- madly in love, but then something happens and they split up -- each ends up falling in love with other people, maybe even marrying them, but then those relationships also go south -- later in life they hook up with their old loves -- etc etc -- it's the classic "on again / off again" or "can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em" scenario

    so, the way i see it, john and mari stayed a couple for some length of time after "destroyer" but eventually did split up for whatever reason -- some time later he and shayera got back together again and thus, warhawk -- now, whether john and shayera STAYED together til their dying days, i have no idea...

    and as for kara, john and ollie: yes, exactly -- from "initiation" onward, we consciously thought of john and ollie as being her "two uncles" (or even better, her two gay dads )

    clearly, john was the disciplinarian (the one who makes sure you do all your chores and get your homework done before going to the mall with your friends) and ollie was the "cool" uncle (the one who lets you stay up way past your bedtime and lets you eat ice cream and potato chips for dinner)

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sCartoonMan
    .

    I think it's a good sign when two people start finishing each other's sentences..
    Or quote a movie the two of them saw together at some point and both liked?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8677t...e_gdata_player

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by b.t.

    to me, john and shayera's relationship is similar to that of richard burton and liz taylor or robert wagner and natalie wood -- madly in love, but then something happens and they split up -- each ends up falling in love with other people, maybe even marrying them, but then those relationships also go south -- later in life they hook up with their old loves -- etc etc -- it's the classic "on again / off again" or "can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em" scenario

    so, the way i see it, john and mari stayed a couple for some length of time after "destroyer" but eventually did split up for whatever reason -- some time later he and shayera got back together again and thus, warhawk -- now, whether john and shayera STAYED together til their dying days, i have no idea...
    I did get the impression that John/Shayer's story would've continued and they would have probably reconsiled had you guys gone past 3 seasons, (where Batman and Wonder Woman fizzled out and probably wouldn't have been touched upon too greatly again)... shame.

    Credit to the show though - cartoon romances are usually pretty dull or one dimensional, but it added a lot to John and Hawkgirl, who evolved from girl who likes to smash things. Kudos to Maria Canals for bringing that out of her too - she was cracking from the start as Hawkgirl but really brought her A Game when she became Shayera.
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  7. #47
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    With Justice League Unlimited now ended, Warner Bros. Animation began developing a series of Direct to DVD features for thier DC Comics properties with some of the crew from thier various animated series' over the past few years. Thier premiere film came hot off the heels of the terrible Superman Returns so it came as no surprise when the first film to be released was based on the notorious Death Of Superman graphic novel.

    Having attempted to read the books this story was based off and being so underwhelmed as to not bother reading any past his death, I admit to being left bemused by the thought of the film. Indeed, when it was announced (by me, before I should've. Oops) that WBA was looking to develop DTVs I was immediatly more excited by the news that The New Frontier would be adapted. I hadn't (and still haven't) read the book but knew of it's critical acclaim, which cannot be said for the DOS story.



    The film would also take it's design theory from Darywn Cooke's graphic novel. Fortunatly, the designs weren't too far removed from the Bruce Timm theory so that they would easily animate well, which wouldn't be the case if they were to adapt the look of say... Tim Sale's The Long Halloween or Dark Victory. In fact, they later attempted to animate the late Michael Turner's pencils in Superman/Batman: Apocalypse and the results were simply horrendous.

    Cooke mentioned in interviews prior that he saw the series as love letter to the Silver Age of comic he enjoyed as a boy and presented the series as a modern take on the same - however, rather than move them into contemporary times, the entire story takes place in the 50's, following the war between America and Vietnam.

    The central character of the piece is Hal Jordan, a pacist fighter pilot in the war and his journey from scarred Vietnam veteran to a pacafist searching the stars. The story starts at the conclusion of the war and Hal being forced to kill a Vietnemise solider who was unaware that a ceasefire had been agreed. He is the only member of the disembled Justice league of America who starts the film without thier powers and the film shows his origin - by the time the film starts, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and The Flash are considered vigilante's by an increasing paranoid American Goverment, to the point where Batman is an outlaw and Wonder Woman has returned to Paradise Island to escape the American way. Full credit where credit is due - this Wonder Woman, unlike all who have come before and after, is actually interesting. Where I to ever attempt a WW retrospective, the post featurring the New Frontier would be full of praise - character, voice, design - much like Superman, they got everything right here for me.

    Jordan takes up a lot of screen time - he proves to be a worthy investment, but the film does manage to juggle a lot of characters and keep them all worth watching. Batman only has a small presence in the film and Superman barely seems to featured which is a shame - as forementioned, TNF nailed Superman. Brilliant casting (I dare say Kyle MacLachlan is my favourite Superman voice) and the Flechier inspired Superman model is still the best, in my opinion. I think his character arc needed fleshing out a bit more to be honest, because it was the most interesting to me. Superman is a massive victim of the film's short runtime and it's very rushed ending.



    Back to Hal - he doesn't become The Green Lantern unti the third act, but the main beats of his origin are all there - the death of Abin Sur, the ring chosing him because of his ability to overcome fear and his unmatched willpower. If you bought this looking for Green Lantern, you might feel slightly dissapointed - the film is more about Hal, but it does a good job of crafting Hal's character - the film does suffer from pacing problems however - the first 2 acts don't have the swiftest of paces and the conclusion comes from nowhere and seems to end before it begins - The Centre isn't really developed as a villain. I imagine this is because they tried to cram as much of the book in as they could, but eventually ran out of time - having not read the book, I am not really in a position to fully grasp it. Can anyone who's read the books clarify, or do you disagree with this argument?

    Design wise - outstanding. The entire film is a visual treat. Jordan's costume is so much cooler than John Stewart's and the film boasts superior animation to even the best episodes of Justice League Unlimited. Special mention must go to the colouring too - they manage to keep the film very bright and primary without looking childish - it just pops. I have been critical of the colouring on JLU before, but these new DTVs have raised the bar with their colouring techniques. The models for pretty much everyone are all first class - Cooke's models work fantastically when animated. Credit to director Dave Bullock too - considering the scope of the piece, the staging and story boarding are very, very good.



    Praise must once again be showered upon Andrea Romano. Executive producer Bruce Timm is not shy about expressing his love for the Whedonverse with most of the actors from Angel and Firefly eventually finding work on Justice League Unlimited but I personally was waiting for David Boreanaz to turn up. Sadly, it was not to be but alas, he was eventually cast as Jordan in TNF and he a bang on Jon of it. While I admit to having never seen Firefly (shut up, Internet!) I have loved Angel since the show premiered having followed him over from Buffy The Vampire Slayer (which took a massive dip in quality following the departure of Angel and Cordelia from season four) so it was something of a fanboy thrill to have him cast here. While I had issues with a lot of the casting for Superman: Doomsday, I thought The New Frontier was a wonderfully assembled piece.

    Unfortunately, as is the case with these standalone DTVs, no sequel was ever planned or discussed. It was successful enough to warrant more direct to DVD feature for The League, which cannot be said for the proceeding Wonder Woman DVD. After a cash in on The Dark Knight, it was announced that The Green Lantern would finally be getting his own DVD in a starring roll.
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  8. #48
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    It was actually the Korean War that New Frontier deals with in the start as Vietnam wouldn't happen for another decade there. And you should read The New Frontier soon there Stu, for me no comic fan should go another day without reading it if they haven't already.

    I was a fan of the movie I hadn't read the book beforehand although I bought it on the strength of the movie. The book is even better which usually doesn't happen for me when I watch a movie first.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yojimbo View Post
    But more seriously I specifically remember a line of dialogue that stated John was personally chosen by the Guardians of the Universe so it wasn't the usual GL gets slain and ring finds replacement origin. Unfortunately, I can't remember off the top of my head. Might have been Shayera or Katma in "Hearts and Minds." And in that Static Shock episode, it was revealed John was chosen before Sinestro rebelled against the Guardians. Hence why he became 'stuck' on Earth trying to kill John in JL/JLU, he was part of Sinestro's blood oath against GL's that stood up against him.
    I'll take your word for it. I could see poor Abin Sur going to the Guardians and saying "Sector 2814's a handful. My planet keeps me busy as it is, but ever hear of a place called Earth? It's got these androids, demons, no kidding gods...and the last Kryptonian is there! And even more powerful aliens want to fight him! Can I get some help here?" and then the Guardians chose John.

    Quote Originally Posted by b.t. View Post
    re: john / mari / shayera -- i don't think it's as simple or straightforward as saying "john was NEVER in love with" mari -- i can't speak for my collaborators, but the way i personally saw it, john ABSOLUTELY was in love with mari, even though he clearly still had (rather deep) feelings for shayera too

    to me, john and shayera's relationship is similar to that of richard burton and liz taylor or robert wagner and natalie wood -- madly in love, but then something happens and they split up -- each ends up falling in love with other people, maybe even marrying them, but then those relationships also go south -- later in life they hook up with their old loves -- etc etc -- it's the classic "on again / off again" or "can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em" scenario

    so, the way i see it, john and mari stayed a couple for some length of time after "destroyer" but eventually did split up for whatever reason -- some time later he and shayera got back together again and thus, warhawk -- now, whether john and shayera STAYED together til their dying days, i have no idea...
    Ah, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. Maybe I shouldn't have said John wasn't in love with Mari, but he didn't love her with all his heart because those feelings he had for Shayera never went away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hordesman View Post
    Or quote a movie the two of them saw together at some point and both liked?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8677t...e_gdata_player
    Hm...beats quoting Old Yeller, I suppose.

    I'll echo WW's sentiments and say READ NEW FRONTIER, it's one of the best self-contained graphic novels I've ever read.
    "And until we meet again boys and girls, know that wherever evil lurks in all its myriad forms, I'll be there with the hammers of justice to fight for decency and defend the innocent. Goodnight." - Batman

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