"Young Justice (Animated Series)" News & Discussion Thread, Part 7 (Spoilers)

[Bat-Fan Beyond]

Personally, I think Supes is taking the whole business a lot better then I would. I know if I met a sixteen year old clone of myself, my first instinct would probably be to reach for the nearest torch and pitch fork.

I totally agree! If I had accidently impregnated a girl, I'd be a bit upset, but I'd own up to it and do the responsible thing, but if my DNA had been stolen and a clone made of me without my knowledge, I'd be pretty darn pissed off!

[Zah_65]

Personally, I think Supes is taking the whole business a lot better then I would. I know if I met a sixteen year old clone of myself, my first instinct would probably be to reach for the nearest torch and pitch fork.

LOL

Well, fortunately Superman didnt have any hostile reactions . I kinda thought his initial reaction on Superboy was OK. Definitely less than desirable and not what you'd expect of him, but acceptable, maybe even dignified. Especially when you compare his reaction to other leaguers. They were like "what the hell!?". Even Batman was so insensitive as to call Supey an it.

[suss2it]

As usual, I agree. A Superman who is better than Jesus is always boring.

Not always. That type of Superman worked great in All-Star Superman (both the comic and the movie) as well as in Superman/Shazam!: The Return of Black Adam.

Sent from my iPhone using toonzone

[Robert McSantos]

The only problem is this kinda makes him look even more hypocritical. Hasn't he ever considered the possible risks the Kents took by taking in some baby that came from outerspace? It's even worse when you juxtapose this with S/B: Apocalypse where Superman literally welcomes a teenage kryptonian girl who only claims she's his cousin with open arms while every other hero remained suspicious.

The Kents were a couple who kept trying to have children but couldn't, so they took that rocket landing right in front of them as a sign from God. In many versions of the story, Jonathan is a bit more reluctant than Martha, but eventually comes around, so maybe Superman really is taking after his adoptive father after all.

In regards to Superman/Batman: Apocalypse, that movie (and the six-issue comics arc it's based on) does make Superman a little too gullible for my tastes (others may disagree). It's worth pointing out that it's almost the polar opposite of the original Supergirl story, where Superman just sticks her in an orphanage and forgets about her.

Of course, this show's portrayal of Superboy is almost the polar opposite of the comics Superboy too. When that Superboy was first created, he was fiercely independent and rebellious. He wanted nothing to do with an old-fashioned guy like Superman. So I guess pulling a complete 180° every time you retell a story is becoming a Superman tradition of sorts.

Personally, I think Supes is taking the whole business a lot better then I would. I know if I met a sixteen year old clone of myself, my first instinct would probably be to reach for the nearest torch and pitch fork.

If I met a sixteen year old clone of myself, I'd be flattered that some supervillain somewhere apparently thinks I'm important enough to be worth replacing.

[Yojimbo]

Isn't Issue 7 about five months from now ? That will be a long wait.

Yes, . But then again, I'm sure the issue might be first elaborated on in the animated series before the issue releases in August.

[GregX]

Wow, twice in one day...

Anonymous writes...

I know character development is important here and at times we all seem impatient but why is Superman ...SUPERMAN...of all people being unable to extend even a few words to Superboy? While I expect it to be awkward and a little creepy for him, we are only subjected to seeing Clark come off like a bit of a jerk. And it is so unfair to the character when he is not like that at all! You have people going on that Superman is a d**k and I am like, he's not! You didn't even put a scene showing Clark's internal struggle as if to show well yes we can see ambivalence but show there is something more. That he can show some innate compassion even for a clone. And of course Batman as usual is the best at everything...best leader, best mentor, best father, has the best protege who will leader...the Batworship in Timmverse was so blatant it got pretty aggravating for me as a fan of Superman, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, even Wonder Woman,...as if these heroes were just stupid and usually OOC. I mean I like Batman too but not at the expense of the rest of the League.

I am hoping this show would try to be more balanced and treat every hero with respect and be true to their character. I am hoping the Superman/Superboy thing is resolved with some dignity and not dragged on and on cause we must have someone act like a jerk and let it be Superman. sigh

Greg responds...

Random responses to your post:

*Yes, you do seem impatient to me. But maybe that's just me.

*Actually, Superman DOES extend exactly a few words to Superboy.

*I don't think Superman's a d**k, and I don't think the series presents him as one... unless a viewer absolutely insists on looking at everything in the starkest black and white terms - which I don't.

*I think we've twice shown Clark's internal struggle, but we intentionally tried to do it with subtlety.

*I'm a big fan of Batman, but I can guarantee you that I'm just as big a fan of Superman. Humanizing the Man of Steel doesn't count as an attack on his character. Quite the reverse.

*It's not like we needed a token jerk and said, "Hey, let's use Superman as the jerk!" We didn't, and we didn't. We're just trying to be TRUE to his character and how we feel he would react to the situation. I get that you disagree, but as I've said earlier today: perhaps if you wait and see how this all plays out, you'll appreciate our approach. Perhaps not.

And finally, you didn't see that someone had already asked this question? Already addressed this on ASK GREG? You couldn't wait until you got my response to the first query on the topic before basically repeating the complaint? I've got no problem with a second post on a subject if my answer seems incomplete or doesn't satisfy, but you didn't even wait to see if that would be the case. So instead, what you get is more or less a repeat of what I typed up earlier today. Your time is wasted. My time is wasted. Ask Greg's readers' time is wasted. And the queue just gets longer and longer.

I should really stop answering questions for a bit. I can tell I'm getting cranky.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/....php?qid=13135

I agree, why are so many people against a humanized Superman?

[Mister Intensity]

In regards to Superman/Batman: Apocalypse, that movie (and the six-issue comics arc it's based on) does make Superman a little too gullible for my tastes (others may disagree). It's worth pointing out that it's almost the polar opposite of the original Supergirl story, where Superman just sticks her in an orphanage and forgets about her.

Honestly, I think Superman's reaction to Superboy is a modernized take on how Superman received Supergirl during the Silver Age. the old stories didn't portray it as a cold, callous reaction but it was. He left her in an orphanage and he went about business as usual. On YJ he's presented as someone who is surprised that a teenager has emerged on his doorstep and he feels he's not ready to deal with it. This version he's grappling with his doubts but he's clearly not ready to have a hand in raising a teenager. Only this time he leaves the kid with the Justice League, feeling that it is the best thing for him, instead of dumping him in an orphanage, calling him his "secret weapon" then going about business as usual. As a result, the kid spends the rest of his life wondering who he is (if you really think about the Silver Age Supergirl spent her life wondering where was her place in the world).

This show acknowledges that Superman was never the type to allow anyone into his life (I'm assuming he's not married to Lois in this contiunity). Batman is the one who takes kids in and make them part of his family, not Superman. While the general perception is that Batman is the aloof loner and Superman is the social butterfly, this show recognizes that it is really the other way around.

[Lord Sidious]

When will the new episodes air?????





Avengers has 10 more episodes than YJ and I can say YJ is the better show.


They are both great mind you, but YJ all the way:anime:

[Yojimbo]

When will the new episodes air?????

That has not been confirmed as of yet. Earliest estimates are April 8th.

[DCU Bat]

I agree, why are so many people against a humanized Superman?

I love humanized Superman. I think it came down to the fact that some fans portrayed his actions as being overly cautious as opposed to being confused and unprepared to deal with the situation. I think Greg explanation works well especially when you consider that he is juggling two identities in his life.

[W.C.Reaf]

I agree, why are so many people against a humanized Superman?

The problem fans have with 'humanized Superman' is that he'll have flaws and when he displays these flaws fans complain that he's acting out of character. Like in JLU, especially "Clash", where he's also being called a jerk because of his human reactions.

[Bobbywoodhogan]

I love humanized Superman. I think it came down to the fact that some fans portrayed his actions as being overly cautious as opposed to being confused and unprepared to deal with the situation. I think Greg explanation works well especially when you consider that he is juggling two identities in his life.

I'll admit at first I was like like what? but after a few episodes I realised how interesting it was and I'm very much on board with this version of Supeman.

[Casey Mack]

The problem fans have with 'humanized Superman' is that he'll have flaws and when he displays these flaws fans complain that he's acting out of character. Like in JLU, especially "Clash", where he's also being called a jerk because of his human reactions.

In "Clash" superman acted the way he did, cause of Lex, and he knows lex is a cold hearted monster. I am merely referring the fact superman reminds me personally of a man who finds out he has a teenage kid, and is unable to process being a father or a role model now. so he avoids the boy, leaves him in good hands, just not really wanting to be part of his life. while that makes for great stories, it just makes superman look very bad.
Superman initial reaction to super-boy is accurate, and perfect, but over 2 months later, and he still is in the same mindset. This is afterall superman, the guy who flies to other worlds, to save alien civilizations. At this point I woundn't blame superboy from telling superman to [take] off, whenever he does come around.

Mod Note: Inappropriate language removed.

[Primal Slayer]

Wow. Look at the whinning there. The anon does realize that if Wonder Girl appears, it'll likely be Donna anyway, right?

Not necessarly. Just look what they did with Garth and Speedy/Red Arrow. One has never been Aquamans sidekick and one has already accelerated the sidekick process. This is a young DC but its a different young DC. Donna could exist or not exist. She could be WWs sidekick or she could just simply be WWs sister who never becomes WG.

[theRedDeath]

If and when Wondergirl appears, it will almost certainly be Donna. This show has as of yet never skipped generations for hero characters, with the exception of Aqualad who was created FOR this show. Sure Speedy became Arsenal, but it's not like they would have used Mia instead of Roy.

Plus, Donna is one of the founding Teen Titans, and even though this show isn't Teen Titans in any way, it knows it's roots. They're eventually going to show Donna/Wondergirl at some point down the line just to pay proper respect to the comic that made shows like this even possible.


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[RoryWilliams]

If and when Wondergirl appears, it will almost certainly be Donna. This show has as of yet never skipped generations for hero characters, with the exception of Aqualad who was created FOR this show. Sure Speedy became Arsenal, but it's not like they would have used Mia instead of Roy.

Plus, Donna is one of the founding Teen Titans, and even though this show isn't Teen Titans in any way, it knows it's roots. They're eventually going to show Donna/Wondergirl at some point down the line just to pay proper respect to the comic that made shows like this even possible.


---

And one must pay attention to the idea of ethnic diversity playing a huge role in creating a new Aqulad over using Garth. That's not particularly an issue given that both Wonder Girls are blue-eyed white girls.

[suss2it]

In "Clash" superman acted the way he did, cause of Lex, and he knows lex is a cold hearted monster. I am merely referring the fact superman reminds me personally of a man who finds out he has a teenage kid, and is unable to process being a father or a role model now. so he avoids the boy, leaves him in good hands, just not really wanting to be part of his life. while that makes for great stories, it just makes superman look very bad. Superman initial reaction to super-boy is accurate, and perfect, but over 2 months later, and he still is in the same mindset. This is afterall superman, the guy who flies to other worlds, to save alien civilizations. At this point I woundn't blame superboy from telling superman to [take] off, whenever he does come around.

I don't see how not wanting to be a father figure of a clone of you makes you look bad. Superboy isn't Superman's kid from a woman he knocked up. If that were the case and he was shunning his responsbility I'd 100% agree that would make him look bad. But being uncomfortable with a clone from your stolen DNA and not getting over it in just two months, doesn't make anyone look bad.

There's also a difference in saving lives and playing a father role.

[graysongirl]

I don't see how not wanting to be a father figure of a clone of you makes you look bad. Superboy isn't Superman's kid from a woman he knocked up. If that were the case and he was shunning his responsbility I'd 100% agree that would make him look bad. But being uncomfortable with a clone from your stolen DNA and not getting over it in just two months, doesn't make anyone look bad.

There's also a difference in saving lives and playing a father role.

exactly. when superman saves lives, it's total strangers. besides lois, he's not attached to any of them. no emotional ties. they're just another person. to put in in context, say acting or singing. In the school play, i was comfortable on stage with a big audience becuase it was a bunch of strangers. I could care less what they thought of me, since i'd never see them again. but just practicing in front of my family... it was awkward and uncomfortable. Sort of like supes' reaction to mini supes. If he was helping a random person, fine. but to hang out with your CLONE? AWKWARD...

[Jonwo]

I wonder if we'll see Mary Marvel or Captain Marvel Jr make an appearance in Young Justice. Captain Marvel's in the League although it's ironic that the League have a member whose real identity is the same age if not younger than the members of YJ.

Would like to see Blue Beetle make an appearance although I wonder who they'd choose, Ted Kord or Jamie Reyes. I would like Jamie but I would be fine with Ted.

[Zah_65]

I wonder if we'll see Mary Marvel or Captain Marvel Jr make an appearance in Young Justice. Captain Marvel's in the League although it's ironic that the League have a member whose real identity is the same age if not younger than the members of YJ.

Would like to see Blue Beetle make an appearance although I wonder who they'd choose, Ted Kord or Jamie Reyes. I would like Jamie but I would be fine with Ted.

I think I read in an interview somewhere that Captain Marvel's real identity is a 10 year old kid. I could be wrong though, or they could have changed it. What we dont know of course is wether the League knows this or not. But I dont think that would'nt be much of an issue. If your powers comes with the wisdom of Solomon, he could 5 yrs old and still be mature(or emotionally mature) enough to be qualified to join the league. This could be a bigger issue with the YJ team if the find out.They'd be jealous!