Racism in Bruce Timm's cartoons

[Dino Troy]

Were there any instances of racism in Bruce Tim produced cartoons that really stand out in your mind?

1. Asian Landlady

In "Hearts and Minds" the portrayal of GL's landlady was extremely racist! She had a strange speech impediment and she was not speaking English correctly. Again, Bruce Tim's attempts at humor ended up being offensive, just like the many instances he objectified and degraded women through crude jokes.

Since there was a general lack of diversity and there were very few Asian characters throughout JL and JLU (Dr. Light, Wind Dragon are the only 2 that come to mind), the portrayal of Asian minorities should have been handled with more racial sensitivity. The Asian landlady was extremely racist.

2. "Legends"

One of the JGA members uttered a very derogatory and racist statement to GL. These JGA members are from a past era, but that was already established. There was no need for that derogatory statement, which was used again for a "humorous" situation. Has the creative team behind JL and JLU ever addressed these racist portrayals?

[MattThomasM2B]

[Arkaron]

I don't know if I'm right, but maybe there were not many asian characters in JL and JLU because this was the way it was pictured in the comics.

I don't think we can find any kind of racism in those cartoons, I mean c'mon, this is entertainment! It's not deep literature or a political movie, it's a cartoon based on comic books. Such issues are not the point.

[JerryvonKramer]

I personally found the portrayal of England seen in The Lion and the Unicorn to be racist and deeply insulting to Britain.

[Blackstar]

Were there any instances of racism in Bruce Tim produced cartoons that really stand out in your mind?

1. Asian Landlady

In "Hearts and Minds" the portrayal of GL's landlady was extremely racist! She had a strange speech impediment and she was not speaking English correctly. Again, Bruce Tim's attempts at humor ended up being offensive, just like the many instances he objectified and degraded women through crude jokes.

Since there was a general lack of diversity and there were very few Asian characters throughout JL and JLU (Dr. Light, Wind Dragon are the only 2 that come to mind), the portrayal of Asian minorities should have been handled with more racial sensitivity. The Asian landlady was extremely racist.

True, but the fact of the matter is that there are plenty of Asian immigrants who really do act, talk and behave in that matter, so it's not racially insensitive to depict that on an animated TV show. And anyway, you yourself pointed out that there have been other Asian American (such as Winddragon) who were not depicted as being stereotypical, so your cries of "racism" in JLU are groundless.

2. "Legends"

One of the JGA members uttered a very derogatory and racist statement to GL. These JGA members are from a past era, but that was already established. There was no need for that derogatory statement, which was used again for a "humorous" situation. Has the creative team behind JL and JLU ever addressed these racist portrayals?

What that character (The Green Guardsman, btw) said to John was "You're a credit to your people!" There are a lot worse things that he could have said to him. Also, you must keep in mind that the JGA's universe was stuck in the 1950s, at time when such racially insensitive statements were made without an iota of mean spiritedness. Green Guardsman was paying John a compliment, he just did it in the unintentionally insensitive way that white people regarded blacks at the time. It was a reflection of the time that the JGA was stuck in. Trying to use this as example of the writers'/producers' alleged racism, is, quite frankly, dumb to me.

Why even watch JL/JLU if there's no much about it that you object to?

[Dino Troy]

I don't know if I'm right, but maybe there were not many asian characters in JL and JLU because this was the way it was pictured in the comics.

I don't think we can find any kind of racism in those cartoons, I mean c'mon, this is entertainment! It's not deep literature or a political movie, it's a cartoon based on comic books. Such issues are not the point.

Since it is a cartoon, it reaches more children than a political movie or deep literature.

When racism is made as a joke, that makes it even worse since it is teaching children that it is alright to be racist.

The racist instances in Bruce Tim's cartoons were not as plentiful as the sexist instances. However, both were treated lightly and as a joke. Bruce Tim has no class.

[Blackstar]

When racism is made as a joke, that makes it even worse since it is teaching children that it is alright to be racist.

I agree with the above statement. However, I haven't seen ANY instances on JLU where racism was used as a joke, and I certainly have seen NO of the show teaching kids that it's OK to be racist. If you can point out even one accurate instance of that happening on the show, I'll give you a million virtual dollars.

I think you're seriously overreacting here. My advice: stop making mountains out of molehills and either just enjoy the show or don't watch it all.

[Dino Troy]

True, but the fact of the matter is that there are plenty of Asian immigrants who really do act, talk and behave in that matter, so it's not racially insensitive to depict that on an animated TV show. And anyway, you yourself pointed out that there have been other Asian American (such as Winddragon) who were not depicted as being stereotypical, so your cries of "racism" in JLU are groundless.

I'm Asian and none of my relatives or Asian friends in America or around the world talk, act and behave in that manner. It is racist to depict Asians in that way, especially when there were only a handful of Asian characters depicted throughout all the episodes of JL and JLU. That landlady had more lines and more characterization than Dr. Light had in the entire series! And JL's depiction of the landlady was extremely racist, tasteless, derogatory, classless and trashy! The fact that they thought this was funny is very disturbing. Then again, with all the sexism in Bruce Tim's cartoons, he would be capable of throw in racist jokes.

What that character (The Green Guardsman, btw) said to John was "You're a credit to your people!" There are a lot worse things that he could have said to him.

Yes,Green Guardsman could have done something worse like say lynching GL. I guess we should all be grateful that Green Guardsman uttered that derogatory, back-handed, racist compliment. I guess GL must have been castrated by Hawkgirl's mace since he didn't have the guts to say something.

Also, you must keep in mind that the JGA's universe was stuck in the 1950s, at time when such racially insensitive statements were made without an iota of mean spiritedness.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Just because he was from the 1950s, it doesn't make the comment less objectionable or racist. That's why there's such a thing as progress. The JL members were more enlightened and were from a modern-day period. GL should've told him it's not appropriate to say something like that.

Green Guardsman was paying John a compliment, he just did it in the unintentionally insensitive way that white people regarded blacks at the time.

For Tim to set the JGA from the 1950s so he could sneak in a racist joke makes him all the more sinister. The audience knew the JGA members were from a backward, uncivilized time. There was no need for the joke to establish that the JGA were from a backward era. The only point of that joke was to offend people.

It was a reflection of the time that the JGA was stuck in. Trying to use this as example of the writers'/producers' alleged racism, is, quite frankly, dumb to me.

The joke was racist. The joke was offensive. The joke was completely unnecessary since the audience knew the characters were from a backward, uncivilized, uneducated time in history. Trying to justify this racist joke from the producers is quite frankly dumb to me.

Why even watch JL/JLU if there's no much about it that you object to?

I criticize the Batman as well? Where are the objections for that? Oh that's right. Bruce Tim isn't behind the Batman!

[Blackstar]

Listen, friend, I'm part African American and I didn't object to that scene in "Legends" then and I still don't to this very day. If any depiction of a person of a different race being treated or shown in a certain manner is going to set you off this much, then you really don't need to be watching the show at all. That's all that I'm saying.

I'm one of the biggest opponents of gender/racial unfairness on this board, but sometimes you have to get off of the soapbox and enjoy entertainment for entertainments' sake.

I'm sure there are plenty of Asians who didn't find the landlady character objection-able. That character was no more racially offensive than say, Alex Borstien's Ms. Swan character on Mad TV. She represents just ONE type of Asian, she's not a representation of Asians in general. I mean, are Beavis & Butthead supposed to be representative of white teenagers everywhere? Were the characters on The PJs supposed to represent all black people in the world? The answer is 'No' to both. Plus, she only appeared in that ONE EPISODE, so it's really not worth all the smoke and fury.

I repeat my previous statement: Maybe you should just not watch these shows if they upset you so much.

Also, why did you even bring up The Batman? I didn't.

[Duke]

I'm Asian and none of my relatives or Asian friends in America or around the world talk, act and behave in that manner.

I work as a cashier at Home Depot and I see plenty of Asians who act just like that. Yes, I do see plenty of Asians who don't act like that, but overall it's about 50/50.

[Dino Troy]

Listen, friend, I'm part African American and I didn't object to that scene in "Legends" then and I still don't to this very day. If any depiction of a person of a different race being treated or shown in a certain manner is going to set you off this much, then you really don't need to be watching the show at all. That's all that I'm saying.

I'm one of the biggest opponents of gender/racial unfairness on this board, but sometimes you have to get off of the soapbox and enjoy entertainment for entertainments' sake.

I'm sure there are plenty of Asians who didn't find the landlady character objection-able. That character was no more racially offensive than say, Alex Borstien's Ms. Swan character on Mad TV. She represents just ONE type of Asian, she's not a representation of Asians in general. I mean, are Beavis & Butthead supposed to be representative of white teenagers everywhere? Were the characters on The PJs supposed to represent all black people in the world? The answer is 'No' to both. Plus, she only appeared in that ONE EPISODE, so it's really not worth all the smoke and fury.

I repeat my previous statement: Maybe you should just not watch these shows if they upset you so much.

Also, why did you even bring up The Batman? I didn't.

You have the right to not be offended by things.

I have the right to feel offended by racist jokes on JL and sexist jokes on JL and JLU.

And why are you asking me not to watch the shows when they have been over for years now?

What's wrong with me bringing up the Batman? You brought up all these cartoons that are not DC-related to illustrate your point. But I can't bring up DC cartoons to illustrate mine?

Btw, Ms. Swan is extremely offensive. I'm just saying.

[Silverstar]

Just because a show is on doesn't mean that you have to watch it. If these shows offend you so much, then simply turn them off and watch something else. Period.

[Dino Troy]

Just because a show is on doesn't mean that you have to watch it. If these shows offend you so much, then simply turn them off and watch something else. Period.

Huh? But JL and JLU are over now. Maybe they would've been renewed if there was less objectionable, sexist situations on the show. Anyway, I criticize the Batman, but no one tells me to turn it off and watch something else. And that show is still going strong and on the air!

[Bird Boy]

As with your other threads, you're looking for things that aren't there. What you're seeing is a result of trying to read between the lines when there was nothing written there. There's rarely a joke or situation in the DCAU that has twenty layers of psychoanalysis under it. Yes, the Timm toons are more sophisticated in many instances, but not nearly as complex as you're making them out to be.

-Zach

Jim's note: I would like to add that since Bruce Timm is a member here at these forums, that he should be treated with the same respect as any other user here. A lot of mud has been thrown at him lately, and any necessary action will be taken in accordance to our forum rules. That does not mean you cannot criticize any work done, but please keep it civil and respectful. But, as a reminder to everyone, please treat every member with respect. This thread is getting increasingly volatile, so please be mindful of each other and approach each user, and their work, with respect.