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  1. #61
    ToonEGuy is offline Banned
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    Like This Thread!

    Funny that you mention the Bruce Wayne persona, cause I almost feel the reverse way about it in The New Batman Adventures. Ever since the redesigned episodes, Kevin Conroy seemed to have the same voice for Bruce Wayne as he did for Batman (especially noticeable with old Bruce in Batman Beyond). In Batman: TAS he had that more classy sounding voice for Bruce Wayne that I always thought did a good job of covering up his identity.

    And seeing how this was the first Batman/Superman crossover that they did, I think the idea was that they were trying to show a contrast between the two heroes and how different they are from each other.

  2. #62
    Lord Sidious is offline Member
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    This movie was the ONE that made me like Batman.


    The Batman series made him look weak and silly.


    This one on the other hand, shows why he can hang with superheroes.


    For me, The Bruce Timm JL universe started with Superman then JL...then JLU.

    And this was the awesome debut of the "superhero" Batman in the Bruce Timm Universe.


    From bashing those gangsters, to tossing Superman, all the way to him finding out Supes secret identity.....This is the episode that made everyone see The Batman a force to be reckoned with in the superhero universe.

  3. #63
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    Couldn't you have just posted this in the talkback thread?

    Mod Note: New thread merged with World's Finest Talkback. In future, please report the post instead of just posting. Thanks!

  4. #64
    quigonkenny is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper17 View Post
    ...and then makes a joke about Joker being "Pudding".
    Lexwing: KRAKADOOOM!
    Harley: Puddin!!
    Batman: At this point...he probably is...

    Single best line in the entire history of the DCAU, preceded by probably Mark Hamill's most epic Joker laugh. Great scene.

    Was Bats out of character? Probably. A little. But that sacrifice for plot convenience pales in comparison with the awful forced Bruce/Lois "romance".

  5. #65
    JTMarsh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
    Lexwing: KRAKADOOOM!
    Harley: Puddin!!
    Batman: At this point...he probably is...

    Single best line in the entire history of the DCAU, preceded by probably Mark Hamill's most epic Joker laugh. Great scene.

    Was Bats out of character? Probably. A little. But that sacrifice for plot convenience pales in comparison with the awful forced Bruce/Lois "romance".
    I agree. Bruce should keep his hands off Clark's woman.

  6. #66
    Geodude is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper17 View Post
    Batman in this movie was completely out of character. He was a complete [jerk], he was brash, he made jokes more then he should have, he talked too much in costume, and he grabbed that cage, with the dancer still inside and threw it at some thugs. That is not something Batman would have ever done.
    Batman does do a deadpan line once in a while. He had his share in TAS, even. You have a short memory. What's the big deal about the cage thing? It would hardly have killed her, she was in a cage after all. And if you're really as big a Bat-fan as you act like, you'd know that he always uses his environment to his advantage in a fight. It seems to me Batman behaved just as he always does.

  7. #67
    coreysturg is offline Member
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    Don't want to drudge up an old thread, but I'm curious to get an opinion on something. (I just rewatched this for the first time in years).

    How do the Batgod critics/defenders feel about this episode arc?

    We've come a long way Batman-wise since this originally aired... Arkham City, Grant Morrison's comic run, and even B:TBATB all give a practically invincible and untouchable Batman. Even during and after the second season of Justice League, Bruce is SO much better at being Batman. Now when I go back and watch episodes of B:TAS, where he is exclusively a clutch player (in almost every episode, he gets worked over for a GOOD bit by the weekly villain before he is victorious), it's a sort of disappointing transition, lol.

    As such, I feel that by the end of the episode, Superman came out on top in terms of overall performance. I mean, it is technically HIS show, afterall, but it just didn't seem like ol' Bats was pulling equal weight. Between taking out like only four of those Lex-bots and not being able to save Joker (or choosing not to; his 'pudding' joke was a little disturbing, lol), I, as a fan of the 'Batgod' was a little disappointed in not really seeing it in this episode.

    Thoughts from both sides?

  8. #68
    Bobbywoodhogan's Avatar
    Bobbywoodhogan is offline I Will Find Him!
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    Still the best Superman Batman team up in animated history in my opinion. As a Superman fan I love how Superman does come out on top in a way at the end.
    Consider Yourself Impeached - Superman to Lex Luthor (Superman/Batman: Public Enemies)

  9. #69
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    I thought they made Batman plenty "Batgod-ish" in this, as he pretty much steals Lois, always has a more intelligent line than SM, and takes out 4 giant robots. Didn't Supes barely take out the same amount? I can't remember, cause this is one episode of TNBA/STAS I absolutely dislike. I don't like how much of a jerk Superman is in this episode, Batman is also kind of out of character, he's the one who should have more "Tude" than Superman. I don't know maybe I don't like STAS as much as I used because Supes was more of a wimp here than in any other show including JL. Plus I hated how he never acted differently at all when he was Clark Kent, and I didn't like how Superman wasn't very boyscout-ish or nice I guess. He always seemed too eager to hit first... ask questions later, even when he wasn't provoked. Yeah sorry coreysturg, this probably doesn't answer your question, it's more of me ranting than anything else, lol.


    D.
    "Good and Great things in life are rarely ever easy... but they are worth it."

  10. #70
    coreysturg is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty View Post
    I thought they made Batman plenty "Batgod-ish" in this, as he pretty much steals Lois, always has a more intelligent line than SM, and takes out 4 giant robots. Didn't Supes barely take out the same amount? I can't remember, cause this is one episode of TNBA/STAS I absolutely dislike. I don't like how much of a jerk Superman is in this episode, Batman is also kind of out of character, he's the one who should have more "Tude" than Superman. I don't know maybe I don't like STAS as much as I used because Supes was more of a wimp here than in any other show including JL. Plus I hated how he never acted differently at all when he was Clark Kent, and I didn't like how Superman wasn't very boyscout-ish or nice I guess. He always seemed too eager to hit first... ask questions later, even when he wasn't provoked. Yeah sorry coreysturg, this probably doesn't answer your question, it's more of me ranting than anything else, lol.


    D.
    Hahaha. I completely agree with the Superman/Batman jerk scale being way out of whack. I actually prefer my Batman to be a TOTAL jerk. Not someone who falls in love with Lois Lane in 3 days. Have you guys ever noticed that people in the DCAU 'fall in love' like immediately (*ahem* Supergirl)? I know it's a cartoon, but 3 days is just cray-cray. But back to the Bat-jerk: it's episodes like this that make it hard for me to understand exactly how/why Bruce ended up as Old Man Wayne. I mean, and this may be a poor reflection of character on my behalf , but he never really seemed as bad as everybody made him out to be. Like in Old Wounds, I still don't get WTH Dick's problem was with him. It didn't look like he did anything wrong to me, lol. I want my Batman to be the super-obvious jerk he was to villains in the Justice League shows.

    But I think all of this is what I'm getting at, in a way. The Batman I'm most recently familiar with (DCAU-wise), is the stoic dude who is dedicated enough to spurn freaking Wonder Woman's advances for 4 years and always had some snide comment for Lex, and manipulated Cheetah, and showed up in Amanda Waller's bathroom just to prove that he could find her. My Superman is one who is distraught after having destroyed an entire town (Clash) because he let his fists and anger do his thinking for him. Because it's NOT something he would NORMALLY do. Yet, while watching any given episode of S:TAS, I always fantasize about the lucrative lives of Metropolis insurance agents while Supes smashes other people's cars over the heads of ne'er-do-wells. They are separate shows, I get that. It just sucks that I like these characters MUCH better in a show that doesn't necessarily belong to them.

    And I still wish someone could explain why Bruce is so unaffected by the likely death of the Joker in that last scene. All I'm left with is a freaking pudding joke!

    I apologize for the tangents as well. It seems that one good rant deserves another, lol.

    EDIT: Also, about the robots, Superman took out like 6 or 7, plus the super-giant one, by himself. So that's one good Superman moment, I guess. Lol.

  11. #71
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    I don't recall people in the DCAU falling in love very quickly nor did I get the impression Bruce loved Lois. You want to see a show where people fall in love at first sight you should try to watch the 90s Spider Man.

    As for why he was unaffected by Joker's "death" it's not like they're best buds and this was the start of a colder Batman as well. Also considering how many fakeouts he's had he probably assumes he survived.

  12. #72
    RoryWilliams is offline Senior Member
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    I can't remember it well but was this where Harley killed Mercy? Or am I remembering it wrong?

  13. #73
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    BigFatHairyDeal is offline Defender of the Universe
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    Harley didn't kill Mercy, but they did engage in fisticuffs, mostly for laughs. One of the jokes of "World's Finest" is all the physical abuse Mercy undergoes, even getting punched in the face by Batman. At the end of the third part, Mercy watched Harley on TV get hauled off to jail, and started laughing about it, and if I remember it correctly, she ended up aggravating one or more of her many injuries.

    I think it was implied that Bruce loved Lois. When you think about it, Bruce liked strong, smart women, and Lois (post-Crisis) qualifies. Don't forget that scene in Batman Beyond when he was looking back fondly at all his old girlfriends, Lois's picture was in the mix. The only women he dated that he probably didn't like were the airheads he used to build and maintain his "rich playboy" cover.

    Other than the fact that Batman couldn't destroy that one Lexbot sent to assassinate him, there were quite a few "Batgod" moments. Every other time he seemed to get the last word on Superman. He threw Superman across the night club hall (???), then he pulled out the kryptonite, taunted Superman, then did his vanishing act on Superman (think about that for a second; of all the people that vanishing act shouldn't work on, Superman should be near the top of that list); when they battled the droids Batman was jumping over those huge robots and dodging blasts whereas the guy who's faster than a speeding bullet and can leap over the tallest building in a single bound was getting pounded by laser fire; Bruce even got the last witty line at Clarkie's expense (that line, BTW, was another clue that Bruce Wayne was in love with Lois). And on top of that, Batman was so close to stealing the only woman in STAS history that Superman ever cared to be with. In the history of the Timm-related DCAU, how many times can you remember Batman's being jealous because another guy was getting close to a woman Batman liked? Even the part when the two heroes learned each other's secret identity's, Batman's feat felt a lot more dramatically satisfying, because it was sneakier and as soon as Superman realized he was discovered, he had to see Batman smirk while listening to Lois sing Bruce Wayne's praises.

    None of this is to say Superman didn't have his moments, too, but if you hunger for "Batgod" then this three-parter will fill your appetite.

    EDIT: Batman's feelings about Joker's death should be mostly ambivalent. Batman doesn't like to see anybody die, but Joker's just about the most despicable person on the planet. No Joker means much fewer crimes against humanity, which is good for justice.

  14. #74
    RoryWilliams is offline Senior Member
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    Ah. For some reason I thought Harley ended up taping mercy to a bomb or something. It's been years since I've seen it.

  15. #75
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    BigFatHairyDeal is offline Defender of the Universe
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoryWilliams View Post
    Ah. For some reason I thought Harley ended up taping mercy to a bomb or something. It's been years since I've seen it.
    Been a while for me, too. If I'm not mistaken, Harley got the jump on Mercy, and later on in the finale, as hindrance for Superman Harley and Joker taped Mercy onto one of those Lexcorp battlebots so that every time Superman would try to punch it, it would use Mercy as a human shield.

  16. #76
    coreysturg is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatHairyDeal View Post
    (think about that for a second; of all the people that vanishing act shouldn't work on, Superman should be near the top of that list).
    Dude, that is so true! HAHA. I totally didn't think about that. I'm now realizing that my issues were the pacing of both of those shows, compared to the current standard. It's easy to forget (mostly because I don't want to admit to myself that I'm already halfway through my twenties) that this happened over a decade ago, and that things are going to progress, especially since most of my memories of these shows were from when I was much younger and they were much more current.

    For the record, though, my issue was not that he joked about the Joker dying, but more so that Batman didn't try to save him and THEN he joked about it. Seemed different from the guy filled with regret and guilt in ROTJ.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by coreysturg View Post
    For the record, though, my issue was not that he joked about the Joker dying, but more so that Batman didn't try to save him and THEN he joked about it. Seemed different from the guy filled with regret and guilt in ROTJ.
    I think it was a logistics thing, there were explosions everywhere, he had his hands full with Harley( and maybe even Lex I can't remember ) and they were closer, etc. And his guilt and regret in ROTJ stemmed from what happened to Tim and that Tim had blood on his hands all under his watch more than Joker dying.

  18. #78
    coreysturg is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderwall View Post
    I think it was a logistics thing, there were explosions everywhere, he had his hands full with Harley( and maybe even Lex I can't remember ) and they were closer, etc. And his guilt and regret in ROTJ stemmed from what happened to Tim and that Tim had blood on his hands all under his watch more than Joker dying.
    Oh I was referring to the guilt of all of that happening to Tim because he had never let himself cross the line to prevent it. The situation, in the context of World's Finest, is that explosions start going off and he says to Superman, 'you grab Luthor, I'll grab Harley.' So he acknowledged, at least, what he was doing in that situation. But you're probably right about the logicality of the situation. I just feel like it wasn't written well to convey that. It seemed kind of like he enjoyed the opportunity to allow it to happen.

  19. #79
    Dusty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatHairyDeal View Post
    Harley didn't kill Mercy, but they did engage in fisticuffs, mostly for laughs. One of the jokes of "World's Finest" is all the physical abuse Mercy undergoes, even getting punched in the face by Batman. At the end of the third part, Mercy watched Harley on TV get hauled off to jail, and started laughing about it, and if I remember it correctly, she ended up aggravating one or more of her many injuries.

    I think it was implied that Bruce loved Lois. When you think about it, Bruce liked strong, smart women, and Lois (post-Crisis) qualifies. Don't forget that scene in Batman Beyond when he was looking back fondly at all his old girlfriends, Lois's picture was in the mix. The only women he dated that he probably didn't like were the airheads he used to build and maintain his "rich playboy" cover.

    Other than the fact that Batman couldn't destroy that one Lexbot sent to assassinate him, there were quite a few "Batgod" moments. Every other time he seemed to get the last word on Superman. He threw Superman across the night club hall (???), then he pulled out the kryptonite, taunted Superman, then did his vanishing act on Superman (think about that for a second; of all the people that vanishing act shouldn't work on, Superman should be near the top of that list); when they battled the droids Batman was jumping over those huge robots and dodging blasts whereas the guy who's faster than a speeding bullet and can leap over the tallest building in a single bound was getting pounded by laser fire; Bruce even got the last witty line at Clarkie's expense (that line, BTW, was another clue that Bruce Wayne was in love with Lois). And on top of that, Batman was so close to stealing the only woman in STAS history that Superman ever cared to be with. In the history of the Timm-related DCAU, how many times can you remember Batman's being jealous because another guy was getting close to a woman Batman liked? Even the part when the two heroes learned each other's secret identity's, Batman's feat felt a lot more dramatically satisfying, because it was sneakier and as soon as Superman realized he was discovered, he had to see Batman smirk while listening to Lois sing Bruce Wayne's praises.

    None of this is to say Superman didn't have his moments, too, but if you hunger for "Batgod" then this three-parter will fill your appetite.

    EDIT: Batman's feelings about Joker's death should be mostly ambivalent. Batman doesn't like to see anybody die, but Joker's just about the most despicable person on the planet. No Joker means much fewer crimes against humanity, which is good for justice.
    Now this is why I love JL's "Injustice For All" so much. While Batman still had many Batgod moments, in this episode he got get knocked around alot, and Superman even gave him a stern talking to (Superman probably knew Bats wouldn't listen but he didn't even give Bats a chance to say much really, he even gave him the stare, lol.) Superman was like a parent telling their child: "Eat your veggies or no TV, and that's that!" I love that entire episode. But that scene, was priceless.

    Another Batgod JL episode that I like, but also hate, is: "Twilight" The episode was awesome, but Supes got totally Pwned in the scene. I find that scene where Bats says: "Cry me a river" to be way lame and out of character. Even at the end of part 2 when Superman says: "You know something Bruce... your not always right." that scene wasn't enough IMO. I mean it was cool to have Superman say something atleast. But the line still felt a little stiff, I felt like Superman should lectured or gotten more angry at Batman over all the stuff that happened. But of course the episode had to end, and Batgod must prevail, lol.


    D.
    "Good and Great things in life are rarely ever easy... but they are worth it."

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