The **Possible** end of JLU: A Frank Discussion.

[Style]

Note: Girls have the option of participating in a "Jane" discussion if the "Frank" discussion is unacceptable.*

With the recent announcement of the new season of JLU, and the unusual schedule in which CN has decided to air the first four episodes, (1st important note, we only know about these four eps. We don't know if the next 9 will follow, or if they will be in the same schedule. My feeling is they won't, on both counts,) the has been much speculation about the end of JLU. Such fan concerns include that this will be the final season, and/or that CN is trying to rush through the new season as quickly as possible.

I believe the purpose of this thread will be two-fold: The discussion of the possibility of it ending, and whether or not it's likely. Secondly, it will be to discuss our feelings of the end, whether or not it was premature, how we'll cope, and what we can hope for in the future.

So, a couple thoughts of my own. Firstly, on the possibility that it will end this season. I will admit, that I feel it's a toss up at this point on whether or not it will continue, but I tend to feel it will continue at least one more season after this one, for various reasons. The first is that I do not feel that this two-episodes per night set up is how the whole season will be aired. It seems to me that very few eps of the season may even be ready to air at this point. So, it is my belief that we will be getting the first four and only the first four episodes this September, and that the rest of the season will come at a later point. I'd speculate November. Secondly, ending the show at this point feels odd to me. Because the third season after JL is sort of an evolutionary mid step, between counting JLU as part of JL and counting it as it's own entity. It seems that if they've continued it through the third season, then they would go ahead with a fourth, to get at least 52 episodes. And my last point here has been, if they didn't really want the third season, why did they pick it up? It's not like there was unfinished buisness with the show. Epilouge would have been the perfect place to end it, but they continued.

Now, I'd say a few things about the nature of the end. If it were to end, I personally don't believe it would be premature. Justice Leage has had a long and full life, and has been one of the longest running shows on CN still airing new episodes. This is the fifth production season, and the fourth airdate season. For an action cartoon, that's pretty dang snazzy. So, if I had to say good-bye, it would not be a bitter one.

As far as the DCAU as a whole: While it has long been assumed that the end of the JLU would mean the end of the DCAU, I don't think that's necissarily true. I think the end of the DCAU is a question that has to come up after JLU. Because, obviously, Bruce Timm is going to be looking for another job. And personally, I think he has a pretty good chance of finding one, given his credentials. I really don't think there's a reason to associate the end of the JLU with the end of the DCAU.

Basically, my whole feeling is that worry on the end of these things is just a tad premature.

But, that's just my personally opinion. This thread is to be a place of full and frank discussion on the subject, as explicit as can be within the confines of Toonzone by-laws. So, if you do have concerns, you can discuss them here.

Thank you.

* Please Note: I'm not really sure what this means.

[Alex Weitzman]

Honestly, I don't know. I would hope that CN had ordered 26 as opposed to 13, as they have essentially done with Season 1, 2, and 3/4. TimmCo clearly planned for a possible finale with Epilogue, but we don't know for sure whether they did or did not do something similar with the end of these new 13 episodes. Hopefully, given the three seeming groups of 26 that have come before, CN wouldn't be so rude as to cut a new season off halfway (even if the JLU seasons are supposedly 13 episodes long).

[matta2fatta]

does any one kno how the action figures sales for jlu are doin?

[Doomsday]

I'm hoping for JLU to get another season but no one really knows, even the ppl at CN probably don't. It be a shame for JLU to end, on how its like the best show ever created. Well CN is scaring me with waiting so long to say if theres going to be an JLU s4 but if it doesn't happen, well atleast we got many amazing episodes already. And who knows, maybe b.t. show after JLU will be even better, doubtful but you never know.

[fantastic 7]

Mabye I'm blind, but I can't seem to find the new schedule on CN or anything so could somebody list the schedule or give me the right link please???

Nevermind, I see it (I feel like an idoit)

[Killtacular]

The possibility is likely. But the manner in which Turner allows information to
hop through their channels is extremely tight lipped. Cartoon Network NEVER
EVER announces a show's cancellation.

Shows are simply unceremoniously dropped. And never return. MEGAS XLR
had a great run on Toonami and then suddenly.. fwoop! It's gone. Just this
ominous stretch of time with no information. Then.. eventually.. Jody Schaeffer
writes that it's been axed, long after the fact. This is how it always works.

I've seen it before. Home Movies was cancelled and Adult Swim actually
said it wasn't until Brendon debunked THEM. So the network WILL lie.

Don't get all paranoid yet though. Clearly Dwayne and Timm are still working
on the show-- there are definitely episodes that haven't returned from Korea
needing post production. So until you hear it from their mouths, BE PATIENT.
Enjoy the next season and don't cloud your mind with rage and worry.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Style, perhaps you could clarify that poll question a little bit for me?

Recently we had that question of whether or not Justice League and Justice League Unlimited were two different shows, and even though JLU feels like a continuation of JL, if JLU were to end with this season, to me it would feel like it happened too fast.

It's, what? August 2005? I didn't watch "Starcrossed" until July 2004 and then "Initiation" about a month later. That means I've only spent a year with the likes of Green Arrow, Question, and everything. Yes, the Cadmus arc did resolve itself, but to me JLU still feels so...new. The seasons are short, and maybe CN is rushing through them. Why I have no idea, I can't explain these things, but it makes me a little uncomfortable. I'm sort of undecided on whether or not I should be afraid of JLU and the DCAU ending, but I'm uncomfortable.

Part of the reason I feel a little weird is that "Epilogue" did feel like it could serve as a series finale and a DCAU finale, but I'm concerned about resolving plots that I really expected to see resolved. I've given up hope on seeing some sort of story where Nightwing moves on to another city and whatever needs to be resolved with the Zeta Project, but what about the issues raised in JLU alone? AMAZO's still out there and directionless, I want a resolution to John/Shayera/Vixen triangle (it's like Vixen said it herself, we have to see it through to the end), what's the deal with the Invisible Jet, and is Darkseid really gone and what will happen with Apokolips?

Maybe I'm just being too much of a fanboy, as "This Little Piggy" could've resolved the Batman/Wonder Woman relationship and "The Balance" was probably as much a Wonder Woman origin as we're going to get. I don't know, it just seems like each season they start more plots then they finish, and I probably won't be satisfied with the end of JLU unless some of the major conflicts have an ending to them.

[Fone Bone]

Note: Girls have the option of participating in a "Jane" discussion if the "Frank" discussion is unacceptable.*

With the recent announcement of the new season of JLU, and the unusual schedule in which CN has decided to air the first four episodes, (1st important note, we only know about these four eps. We don't know if the next 9 will follow, or if they will be in the same schedule. My feeling is they won't, on both counts,) the has been much speculation about the end of JLU. Such fan concerns include that this will be the final season, and/or that CN is trying to rush through the new season as quickly as possible.

I believe the purpose of this thread will be two-fold: The discussion of the possibility of it ending, and whether or not it's likely. Secondly, it will be to discuss our feelings of the end, whether or not it was premature, how we'll cope, and what we can hope for in the future.

I have no idea how I'll cope. With the Buffyverse, Farscape, and Star Trek gone JLU/The DCAU is the last show that I am a huge fan of left. What can take it's place? The Batman and Smallville?

So, a couple thoughts of my own. Firstly, on the possibility that it will end this season. I will admit, that I feel it's a toss up at this point on whether or not it will continue, but I tend to feel it will continue at least one more season after this one, for various reasons. The first is that I do not feel that this two-episodes per night set up is how the whole season will be aired. It seems to me that very few eps of the season may even be ready to air at this point. So, it is my belief that we will be getting the first four and only the first four episodes this September, and that the rest of the season will come at a later point. I'd speculate November. Secondly, ending the show at this point feels odd to me. Because the third season after JL is sort of an evolutionary mid step, between counting JLU as part of JL and counting it as it's own entity. It seems that if they've continued it through the third season, then they would go ahead with a fourth, to get at least 52 episodes. And my last point here has been, if they didn't really want the third season, why did they pick it up? It's not like there was unfinished buisness with the show. Epilouge would have been the perfect place to end it, but they continued.

Your reasoning here is solid. As CN IS treating it as a seperate series from JL it would make a heck of a lot more sense to make it to 52 episodes. After that, unless they do a JL Beyond show (fat chance) I don't see it continuing.

Now, I'd say a few things about the nature of the end. If it were to end, I personally don't believe it would be premature. Justice Leage has had a long and full life, and has been one of the longest running shows on CN still airing new episodes. This is the fifth production season, and the fourth airdate season. For an action cartoon, that's pretty dang snazzy. So, if I had to say good-bye, it would not be a bitter one.

Sez you. If JL/JLU had been starting to run out of steam I'd agree. But the show is as good as it's ever been and even better. There are an unlimited numbers of stories they can tell. I could get used to the idea of JLU ending if the DCAU was continued in series form in some way. But the "we've had a good run" argument is hollow to me when a show still has plenty of life in it. I personally think JLU and The Simpsons should switch networks and time-slots. It's not fair that a cartoon that has been coasting for a long time like The Simpson get unlimited seasons while a cartoon as innovative as JLU is renewed on a season by season basis.

As far as the DCAU as a whole: While it has long been assumed that the end of the JLU would mean the end of the DCAU, I don't think that's necissarily true. I think the end of the DCAU is a question that has to come up after JLU. Because, obviously, Bruce Timm is going to be looking for another job. And personally, I think he has a pretty good chance of finding one, given his credentials. I really don't think there's a reason to associate the end of the JLU with the end of the DCAU.

I sincerely hope not. The Superman World's Collide DTV gives me hope that even if JLU went off the air we could still conceivably get Batman, Superman, or Justice League DTVs occasionally. Another series would be awesome but a steady stream of DVDs (why does Scooby Doo get so many?) would be a nice consolation prize.

Basically, my whole feeling is that worry on the end of these things is just a tad premature.

But, that's just my personally opinion. This thread is to be a place of full and frank discussion on the subject, as explicit as can be within the confines of Toonzone by-laws. So, if you do have concerns, you can discuss them here.

Thank you.

No thank you. This is a great idea for a thread.

* Please Note: I'm not really sure what this means.

Neither do I.

[Style]

I have no idea how I'll cope. With the Buffyverse, Farscape, and Star Trek gone JLU/The DCAU is the last show that I am a huge fan of left. What can take it's place? The Batman and Smallville?

I don't know what to say about what you'll follow, but you'll find it sometime. Fanboys always do.

Your reasoning here is solid. As CN IS treating it as a seperate series from JL it would make a heck of a lot more sense to make it to 52 episodes. After that, unless they do a JL Beyond show (fat chance) I don't see it continuing.

The Justice League franchise has gotten a lot of respect from CN, (comparitively speaking.) It's been on the network since 2001, which, in the modern CN dictum, has been nigh-unto FOREVER. And, since the third season suggests that they are taking it seriously as a show on it's own, but supporting a fully rounded register of episodes, as in picking it up for the third season, I don't see why they wouldn't pick it up for a fourth and final.

Sez you. If JL/JLU had been starting to run out of steam I'd agree. But the show is as good as it's ever been and even better. There are an unlimited numbers of stories they can tell. I could get used to the idea of JLU ending if the DCAU was continued in series form in some way. But the "we've had a good run" argument is hollow to me when a show still has plenty of life in it. I personally think JLU and The Simpsons should switch networks and time-slots. It's not fair that a cartoon that has been coasting for a long time like The Simpson get unlimited seasons while a cartoon as innovative as JLU is renewed on a season by season basis.

I guess it's a matter of differing perspectives. Sure, in reality I think that JLU should continue as long as it's creatively viable, like you do. But, I suppose I'm trying to be content about the whole thing. After all, Bruce Timm has gotten to produce the biggest, longest lasting, and highest caliber adaptation of the DC Universe, the most classic characters ever to come out of comics, and his vision has been entertaining me for 13 years and running. I guess it's just me, but I can't really say I was shortchanged in all of that. I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid, and I don't want the show to go either, but that's where I'm coming from.

I sincerely hope not. The Superman World's Collide DTV gives me hope that even if JLU went off the air we could still conceivably get Batman, Superman, or Justice League DTVs occasionally. Another series would be awesome but a steady stream of DVDs (why does Scooby Doo get so many?) would be a nice consolation prize.

There will come a time when the DCAU is stopped being produced on a consistent basis. That's the way of life. But I know it's going to go on forever, in one form or another. It's already hailed as a modern classic, and an ideal interpretation of the DC universe. It's going to be revisited time and again, in TV specials, DTVs, special tie-in comics, homeages, and inspirations of other works for the rest of our natural lives.

No thank you. This is a great idea for a thread.

Well, I just thought it was time to bring the scattered conversations and worries about this under one banner, so that people can talk about it openly and honestly, and without having to muck up other threads with it. (Which is a little ironic coming from me, because "The Green Style vs. The Crisis of Infinite Batman" was one of the most blatant flouting of Toonzone rules and hijacking of threads of all time, and the fact that I more or less got away with it amazes me. But, I think I've earned the right to be a little hypocritical if I have to be. )

[Phantasm]

JL/JLU have both been two good, entertaining shows. I was a tad bit disapointed by the conclusion to the last season,what with Luthor turning out to Braniac in disguise and all but it is fair to say there were some great Batman moments worth nothing.

Since the end to this season hasn't been all that satisfactory, for me at least, I'm glad its getting another season.Hopefully it will take this chance to amend the mistakes of the previous one and result in a more satisfacory finish.

I'm not, at this point so concerned about the fact that it could end after this season but am worried about whether it will reach a well deserved, satisfacory resolution. I don't want another TNBA style abrupt ending thank you very much!

After that...maybe Mr. Timm will be tempted to focus back on dear Batman and probably work on a film that will answers all the questions from TNBA that left us hanging.

[Bizarro Batman]

Am I the only one who actually wouldn't mind seeing the DCAU end with JLU? Not to say I want JLU to end now, no no no no no. But it feels like, at least to me, that it's the top of the mountain. You start out with one hero, Batman, then move to another, Superman, and end up with all of them on the same show....what's left to top that?

Yeah, you could do Character X: TAS, but outside of Flash or Wonder Woman, would that many people really be that interested? I'm not trying to be a party pooper, but for the most part the shows have always centered mainly around Batman or Superman. And come on....when Conroy's done I don't want anybody else ever touching the DCAU Batman after that.

I hope I'm making a little sense here, but I guess I'm trying to say that I'd rather see it end now, while it's at the top of its game, rather than see it go on forever and end up in mediocrity. For example, Batman had his swan song with Epilogue, so I really don't feel like there's much need to revisit him that much anymore, even in present time. Although really, I don't see the DCAU lasting more than a few years anyway.

[Style]

Am I the only one who actually wouldn't mind seeing the DCAU end with JLU? Not to say I want JLU to end now, no no no no no. But it feels like, at least to me, that it's the top of the mountain. You start out with one hero, Batman, then move to another, Superman, and end up with all of them on the same show....what's left to top that?

Yeah, you could do Character X: TAS, but outside of Flash or Wonder Woman, would that many people really be that interested? I'm not trying to be a party pooper, but for the most part the shows have always centered mainly around Batman or Superman. And come on....when Conroy's done I don't want anybody else ever touching the DCAU Batman after that.

I hope I'm making a little sense here, but I guess I'm trying to say that I'd rather see it end now, while it's at the top of its game, rather than see it go on forever and end up in mediocrity. For example, Batman had his swan song with Epilogue, so I really don't feel like there's much need to revisit him that much anymore, even in present time. Although really, I don't see the DCAU lasting more than a few years anyway.

Oh, I don't know. The Question, as introduced in JLU, has been really interesting. And after reading Scott Tipton's Comics 101 entry for the Question, I really want him to get his own animated series.

[Sue]

Like everyone else, I hope JL/U gets additional seasons, but I'm not gonna bang my head over it until we know for certain.

[Peter Paltridge]

Am I the only one who actually wouldn't mind seeing the DCAU end with JLU? Not to say I want JLU to end now, no no no no no. But it feels like, at least to me, that it's the top of the mountain. You start out with one hero, Batman, then move to another, Superman, and end up with all of them on the same show....what's left to top that?

Yeah, you could do Character X: TAS, but outside of Flash or Wonder Woman, would that many people really be that interested? I'm not trying to be a party pooper, but for the most part the shows have always centered mainly around Batman or Superman. And come on....when Conroy's done I don't want anybody else ever touching the DCAU Batman after that.

I hope I'm making a little sense here, but I guess I'm trying to say that I'd rather see it end now, while it's at the top of its game, rather than see it go on forever and end up in mediocrity. For example, Batman had his swan song with Epilogue, so I really don't feel like there's much need to revisit him that much anymore, even in present time. Although really, I don't see the DCAU lasting more than a few years anyway.

Seeing that great team finally split would depress me. I know it'll have to happen someday, but I'd rather it be later than sooner. Does anyone here want to have to watch the third animated version of Batman where he's a 14-year-old rapper? Children's networks almost NEVER show a good concept any respect. What's happened here is rare and special.

[Krypton_Knight]

All things have gotta end. But as long as the creative talent is doing as well as they've been doing, and are enthusiastic about the show, I hope it'll continue.

I'm really glad to be getting this season, but I am hoping we'll get up to 52 episodes (if only because four JL boxed sets with 26 episodes each sound really good to me. Sadly, network executives don't always share my opinion.

KK

[MilkManX]

I myself could probably watch years more seasons of JLU. Not everyone else could though. I mean Superfriends ran on and off forever.

I do hope if this is the last season that Timm and Co go all out.

Question TV series.... maybe on Adult Swim. I dont think he is quite the charicter for the shows Target audience. He is a great supporting charicter on the current roster though. Bring me a Green Arrow/Green Lantern show. That could be good or maybe move on to the future JLU with Batman Beyond(anything to get more Big Barda!)

[Fone Bone]

I don't know what to say about what you'll follow, but you'll find it sometime. Fanboys always do.

Honestly, Style? Things are looking pretty dire. I like Lost and Alias a lot but both of those shows are turning out to be major disappointments after showing initial promise. It might to too early to reach a verdict on Lost but after the season finale I have my doubts.

The Justice League franchise has gotten a lot of respect from CN, (comparitively speaking.) It's been on the network since 2001, which, in the modern CN dictum, has been nigh-unto FOREVER. And, since the third season suggests that they are taking it seriously as a show on it's own, but supporting a fully rounded register of episodes, as in picking it up for the third season, I don't see why they wouldn't pick it up for a fourth and final.

I hope so. I will concede that a fourth season of JLU would probably be the last. It would be awesome if it got a 26 episode pick-up though if only because I want another story arc as good as the Cadmus one. It's possible they may be able to pull it off THIS year and if so I WOULD be content with another 13-episode season. We'll see.

I guess it's a matter of differing perspectives. Sure, in reality I think that JLU should continue as long as it's creatively viable, like you do. But, I suppose I'm trying to be content about the whole thing. After all, Bruce Timm has gotten to produce the biggest, longest lasting, and highest caliber adaptation of the DC Universe, the most classic characters ever to come out of comics, and his vision has been entertaining me for 13 years and running. I guess it's just me, but I can't really say I was shortchanged in all of that. I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid, and I don't want the show to go either, but that's where I'm coming from.

I won't really feel any animosity towards CN either as it HAS been a long run. I'm just saying that there is no real reason for the show to end. If CN still had a load of great shows I might feel differently but with Samurai Jack gone and Duck Dodgers and Teen Titans in question the only good original they will have left is Foster's.

There will come a time when the DCAU is stopped being produced on a consistent basis. That's the way of life. But I know it's going to go on forever, in one form or another. It's already hailed as a modern classic, and an ideal interpretation of the DC universe. It's going to be revisited time and again, in TV specials, DTVs, special tie-in comics, homeages, and inspirations of other works for the rest of our natural lives.

If we still got TV specials and DTVs I wouldn't complain. It's the uncertainty that is troubling me.

Another plus to that is that the Bat-Embargo would probably no longer be an issue. Near-Apocalypse of '09 anyone?

Well, I just thought it was time to bring the scattered conversations and worries about this under one banner, so that people can talk about it openly and honestly, and without having to muck up other threads with it. (Which is a little ironic coming from me, because "The Green Style vs. The Crisis of Infinite Batman" was one of the most blatant flouting of Toonzone rules and hijacking of threads of all time, and the fact that I more or less got away with it amazes me. But, I think I've earned the right to be a little hypocritical if I have to be. )

That was the greatest thread hijacking EVER. I was almost disappointed it got it's own thread as it was so funny BECAUSE it was a hijacking.

[Hockey Mask]

Why are they so secretiive? No news is bad news.

[James]

We'll see. I won't really feel any animosity towards CN either as it HAS been a long run.

I think that's always the best attitude, that way, even in a worst case scenerio, at least one appreciates the good fortune we've had.

Who would have thought when BTAS started oh so long ago, we'd have had a Superman follow up, a Batman from the future, a show about the Justice League and then a show that tries to spotlight all the other great DC characters?

Compared to the early demise most action cartoons suffer, I feel we are in the midst of a unique being which has evolved into something big and wonderful. No matter what it's future is, we'll always have Paris that.

[bobspoland]

its a gr8 show, glad we got another 13 epsiodes but if this is the end then its not the end of the world. as ive said before am reisgned to the fact that JLU is going finish so why not now? if he get another 13 epsiodes then that would be gr8 aswell, but am not holding my breath