The Batman "Riddled" Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Penguin]

The Batman squares off with The Riddler right now on Kid's WB...

The Batman #15 - Riddled
Original Airdate - May 21st, 2005

Batman and Detective Yin's secret alliance is put at risk when they must work together to solve a string of riddles which have been scattered thoughout Gotham, fearing Riddler will make good on his threat to destroy the city.

Comments?

[CyberCubed]

You know what's really sad?

That the writers can't seem to make an episode without Batman's secret identity in peril. Are they really grasping at straws here? Must every episode have somebody pulling off Batman's mask? I mean seriously, this is getting repetitive.

Other than that, I like Yin. Of course she turns out to be a super-powered karate expert since she's the main character, but I still like her.

Other than that the rest of the episode was a hit or miss. I know this Riddler design is going to give me nightmares.

[Nobody You Know]

As I said two weeks ago for "Clayface of Tragedy", there was hope for the series.

And we're seeing it here.

Far more intelligent and better-written than we've seen, this episode did a lot right- Riddler running a ruse so he can plan another crime elsewhere unmolested, the various riddles, and riddles within riddles, and his obsession with games and tricks, wanting to deduce Batman's identity... And then going completely crazy when denied the chance to do so.

Plus, we got to see Yin do a little ass-kicking.

I'm still not entirely enamored on the show's style, and I still genuinely hate most of the charachter designs.

Still, besides looking a bit too much like Orochimaru for my taste, Riddler's redesign worked- They used his design to accentuate his movements, and combined with his barely-constrained rage, made him look quite mad. This show is finding its feet.

Another solid four stars.

[Gaunt]

Hands down, the BEST Riddler interpretation ever.

Combining the intelligence of the B:TAS version and the cyber-punk qualities of the Batman Forever Riddler, "The Batman" Riddler also solves 2 big problems with the character:

1. The Riddles are no longer his master. They instead have a practical use: muddling the truth and throwing people off of his game plan.

2. Very threatening now. The comics version was always treated as the "loser villain," someone who is repeatedly defeated time and time again. This Riddler takes delight in his twisted game, all the while being unpredictable in nature. Kudos to the voice actor for a stunning performance.

Though the Clayface two-parter is probably a better set of episodes, I prefer "Riddled." In my opinion, it's the best episode of "The Batman" so far.

Oh, and Rojas sucked.

[Fone Bone]

I loved this episode. Sure, the Riddler's design sucked but Robert England? Sweet!

I prefer the BTAS/Batman Adventures version but this episode did pretty much everything right. FINALLY a riddle game about Batman's identity (why haven't any other BTAS villians ever hooked him up to a lie detector?) and I thought it was clever of Batman to lie right when Riddler was standing in front of Yin.

As usual Rojas was stupid beyond belief. I really want to know how he became commisioner because if he started out as a detective I believe that after three weeks he would have been downgraded to file clerk.

Really, an awesome episode even though I still resent this show! *****.

[Simpler Simon]

A very fun caper episode - this is the quality I'd like to see The Batman maintain, if it can't always be "Clayface of Tragedy."

Loved the 20 questions at the end - so simple, yet such an effective way to deduce Batman's identity.

The remote control batarang sucked. Fortunately, the rest of season 2's gadget moments arent as bad as this.

Waiting for Revelator to pop into this thread, he had some pretty insightful commentary comparing the BTAS Riddler to this one.

[Phantasm]

I enjoyed this episode.

And so did my siblings. We had fun trying to figure out the riddles. The Riddler looked like Marlyn Manson. My little sis said 'he looked like Lana!"
LOL!

And the 20 questions round did pique my interest.Though I must say...Riddler's motives were downright bland and ...a LAZY attempt at the writers' part to have him concoct riddles. The entire episode was just Yin trying to figure out Riddles, if not 'Gotham will be destroyed.' I'm SO tired of the cliche and am astounded at the tendency of the script writers of these shows to not get bored of throwing them in!

But, Batman was not his annoying pointy chinned self this morning. I turned off the tv set in a better mood than every other Saturday morning. He was for once...some what acting like himself.

Yin...meh...Not a strong female character. Nothing to remember after the episode ends...Though her partnership with Batman is somewhat intriguing,regardless of the fact that I am irked at her character serving as an apparent substitute for Gordon just so WB draws in female audiences.

Ha!Well, that didn't work because at the end of the day,my lil sisters were more glad that it was Batman who saved the day and not the 'police woman'.

[TimTwoFace]

As usual Rojas was stupid beyond belief. I really want to know how he became commisioner because if he started out as a detective I believe that after three weeks he would have been downgraded to file clerk.

Rojas is just the chief; no commissioner has been mentioned at this point, but one is coming.

As for the episode - I had the good fortune to see this on Teletoon a few months ago, and I thought it was very well done. The Riddler is great in that he has actual motivation; I don't mind if he is the one obsessing over revealing Batman's identity, either. It fits his M.O. more than anything else.

This was a solid, smart, well-written episode that not only introduced one of the best villains on the series, but also built on the Batman-Yin partnership.

4 stars from me.

-Tim

[Gaunt]

And the 20 questions round did pique my interest.Though I must say...Riddler's motives were downright bland and ...a LAZY attempt at the writers' part to have him concoct riddles. The entire episode was just Yin trying to figure out Riddles, if not 'Gotham will be destroyed.' I'm SO tired of the cliche and am astounded at the tendency of the script writers of these shows to not get bored of throwing them in!

I strongly disagree.

The riddles were used to lure Yin and Batman away from Gotham City Hall, a diversionary tactic instead of actual clues to his whereabouts (a problem which made the comics Riddler a loser villain and the B:TAS version a bland character). The only reason Batman figured it out was because Riddler arrogantly believed they couldn't figure out his plan. Riddler's plan WASN'T to bomb Gotham (it was really gelatin in the containers), but to hack into Gotham's mainframe and gain total access to information (from bank accounts to city plans), something that fits his motif perfectly.

[Batman Fan]

Now this episode was good, having missed last weeks, I got to watch three great episodes in a row. The only problem I had was the Riddler's design, I hate it, its a bit to creepy for the Riddler. It's great to see that the Batman's interpretation of the Riddler is really smart, as well as insane. It really showed when Yin lied about Batman's identity and the Riddler went haywire and didn't wanna hear it cause he wanted to figure it out himself. Finally, a villan who is truly insane and obsessed. Although I don't like this Riddler as much as B:TAS one, we found out of the bat that this one is definetly crazy and is obsessed with power and knowledge and games, he's very sure of himself, and when he couldn't deduce Batman's identity, that's when we knew how insane he really is. Another great scene was the small Riddler Batman fight where he continued to ask the questions to deduce Batman's identity. Yin also showed off some of what she can against the Riddler's thugs.

I very much enjoyed the Yin/Batman relationship, helping each other out, all the while trying not to get caught together. Yin going around the city solving all the riddles was cool too, she proved herself to be smart without the Batman's help too. When Batman deduced the real riddle and Riddler's real plan, I was impressed, he does have some brain, actually, Batman really shocked me, I had no idea he was that smart, if he'd used this wit and intelligence all the time, this show could really be interesting.

Anyways, great episode from a mediocre show. I give it ****1/2 stars, knock off half cause I don't like Riddler's design, and he voice that much.

[DerekPowers]

well, like everyone here so far, i too enjoyed this episode.

I love the riddler design and character. its great and probably my favorite design on the show. Its totally new yet nails the character perfectly. i like how he's not physically imposing, almost frail looking, truely making his mind his most powerful muscle. i also like the look because its so extreme. he's obviously a man OBSESSED. it works well.

i also liked the plot of this episode. the riddler's caper was a cool one, to steal the information on the city mainframe, and the riddles given were decent enough as well.

Batman and yin, its cool i guess. i dont know if it'll get old, but as of now i dont mind their 'partnership'. as far as yin going all kill bill on the henchmen (thats what the staging of that scene reminded me of), it was a little too easy, but hey, i guess its good to know she can fight.

Last, i just really loved the riddler design and the design of the mainframe, w/ those green electronic power lines and stuff. the riddler's cane was also cool, especially at the end when he twirls it. i also liked the riddler's henchmen's outfits. i think this was a very strong episode visually. things were just clicking left and right, you know. it was very riddler based, lots of puzzle type designs, lots of electronics, lots of green, and it was new and just work well on a visual level. peace.

[Wanted]

I'd have to say that this was the second-best episode of The Batman yet, aside from "Clayface of Tradgedy." It really showed that Yin was willing and able to cooperate with the Batman.

[TurtleTitan]

Great episode. I like this version of the Riddler, who is very intelligent, yet also obsessed with knowledge and Batman's identity. The riddles that were in the riddles was very clever too (Batman must have a lot of wits). I also thought the 20 yes/no questions thing was an interesting way to deduce the identity. This season is showing potential.

[Revelator]

Waiting for Revelator to pop into this thread...

I've officially popped in. Let me say that I find your commentray continually insightful and pity to boot.
My apologies for repeating material from other threads...

This episode basically fixes what BTAS got wrong in "If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Rich?" When it comes to Riddler I'm fond of over-quoting Eric Radomski, the series producer and director of that episode (which he disliked):

“We just couldn’t convince the writers that the Riddler might set something up as simple as a bomb in somebody’s office. It had to be complicated. So, that posed a real problem because you have 22 minutes to establish the character, and they suddenly put in these complex riddles that Batman must figure out. And of course, he immediately figures them out, and that destroys the whole mystery of Batman as a detective, because all he does is think for a minute and he has the answer....If there was an opportunity to work with [The Riddler] again, and I had complete say over that character, I would treat him as we do the Joker, where in reality he’s a mean bastard. He uses his wit, but it’s not the main thing he relies on, which is his ability to dominate.”

Notice how thoroughly "Riddled" satisfies these comments. Riddler plants several bombs and a smokescreen of Riddles (and each one helps spur the pace and keep the show galloping from one challenge to the next), and while Batman moves through the riddles, the larger scope of the Riddler's true plans is only found out later in the episode. Batman has to think for more than a minute. And in this episode, Riddler really is a man who loves to dominate: he wants power over Batman and over the information system of an entire city. He jerks around Yin and Batman from one riddle to the next like dogs on a leash. He's far more than the supercilious character in BTAS. And next to the other The Batman villains Riddler is clearly playing a larger, deadlier game: this is a man who thinks in the long term and on a grand scale.

The site that can't be named has a brief comment from Christopher Yost, a former X-Men Evolution scribe, who co-wrote this episode with J.D. Murray:

"Riddler is fun because he's so sinisterly smart -- but hard for the same reasons. And of course he's one of the big Batman villains -- I really wanted to do him justice in his introductory episode, and at the same time keep it fun and action-packed.So we put in lots of bombs and ticking clocks. That generally keeps things moving between riddles."

Indeed, and he was done justice. Gaunt perceptively states that The Riddler controls the riddles, rather than the other way around, as in BTAS. Here the riddles are taunting crumbs; this Riddles does not so much need a plaything as a thing to toy with. And by having him instantly get obessed with the truth behind the only man who refuses to be his toy, The Batman does much better than BTAS, which didn't come up with a real sustaining motivation for the Riddler until "Riddler's Reform." Until then the character had been dramatically inert (the POed employee angle was bad from the start, and used much better for Clock King).

But I think the character's design is still off. It's another of Matsuda's "let's get freaky just to be different" designs, but it might have worked if it didn't so obviously clash with Robert Englund's voice. Englund sounds tweedy and erudite but creepy in a low-key, chuckling way: he doesn't have the glam rock flamboyance you expect when you see Matsuda's Riddler design. Still, I can live with it.

[Stu]

This is my favourite episode so far. I love The Riddler, but a lot of the more recent stuff I've seen with him in it has him acting like a complete loser.

I reviewed this for Toon Zone News a while back, (see here) and some of that's changed from repeated viewings. I still think both the design and voice don't suit the character, but Riddler is still the best villain in the show. His appearance in

Spoiler:

The Night And The City

doesn't change this, in fact, it adds to it.

The Batman's best so far. A much better season, with some very good episodes is to follow!

[Anarky]

this is the riddler story i wanted to see in batman forever!
shades of "Die Hard 3" I always thought that would've made a perfect batman-riddler film and now we have it compressed in a 20+ minute episode. excellent va by robert englund.

great episode
4.5
the riddler's design appears as if he'd have made a great batman beyond riddler

[creativerealms]

Even Phantasm liked this episode, that has to count for something.

Anyway man as bad as the design for the Riddler has he is handled great. Just what this series needs a villain who is smart and acts it too.

I gave it a 4 because well the design for the riddler, Yin's decresed intelaganced (She seemed smarter in season one)The Chief's, utter lack of bring anything in this show (I can't wait for Gordon.) Still this is better then most of the season one episodes.

[Brainiac]

Well, this episode was certainly a marked improvement over almost all of season one put together. You can't go wrong with the Riddler being voiced by Robert Englund. His voice just happens to be the epitome of creepy.

And as much as I hated most of The Batman last season, the one thing I do like about the show is the character designs. Sure, they're unconventional, but they're dynamic and interesting (except for Bane, who just looked ridiculous). The only gripe I had with the Riddler was the black lipstick extending downwards. What was the purpose of that?! I can accept that he's wearing black lipstick...for his lips. But for his chin? Eh.

The episode itself was a much better-written episode than previous entries, and I'd have to say that it's on part with Clayface of Tragedy for me. My biggest problem with it was Rojas: the guy doing his voice is TERRIBLE. I mean, it must be difficult what with the lines he's given, but he makes it sound so stilted and petulant.

A good episode--4 stars!

-Brainiac

[James Harvey]

I know more people have seen this episode! Let's keep the comments flowing!

I'm glad everyone stuck past "The Cat, The Bat, and The Very Ugly" to give this episode a chance. This episode really kicks off a solid season for the show. There are a few bumps, but this episode is where it all began.

This was a fun episode, even if the Riddler's motivation is less than stellar. I do like the twist near the end of the episode, when we find out it's been a wild goose chase. It adds a sense of unpredictability to The Riddler. Infact, that trait also works with his design. While his design isn't a homerun, it does make him look a bit deranged, making his intelligence seem dangerous, and making him seem capable of anything.

The relationship between The Batman and Detective Ellen Yin takes front stage, even if Yin’s portrayal is less than flattering. She needs Batman’s constant assistance to solve these riddles. I would’ve like to see her take a few of these on her own. Then again, when compared to how incompetent Chief Rojas is portrayed, she gets off pretty light.

While this episode does focus a bit on Batman’s technology, it doesn’t suffer too heavily. It’s fast-paced, fun, and serves a great introduction to The Riddler. All we need is a further exploration of his motivation, and we could have The Batman’s best villain yet.

On a related note, I recently interviewed the writer of this episode:

-The Batman Writer Christopher Yost Riddled With Questions

[Gaunt]

I know more people have seen this episode! Let's keep the comments flowing!

Oh, people HAVE seen it. They just don't want to admit "The Batman" has been getting better.

Where's Style 92? He's a big supporter of the show. He should be here to discuss this episode!