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  1. #61
    Bobbywoodhogan's Avatar
    Bobbywoodhogan is offline I Will Find Him!
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    Why this got pulled out of nowhere, this episode is still awesome watched it not so long back Superman vs Doomsday was epic still think Batman was a jerk in it though. Not a big fan of JLU Bats.
    Consider Yourself Impeached - Superman to Lex Luthor (Superman/Batman: Public Enemies)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobbywoodhogan View Post
    Why this got pulled out of nowhere,
    Well, yes. I made a post right before yours commenting on the episode.
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  3. #63
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    This actually might be one of my favorite JLU episodes. Doomsday is one of the cooler Supeman villains, and I like how in the DCAU, he can talk.

    Milo is a chump; I shed no tears when Doomsday offed him.

    The fight between Superman and Doomsday was fun to watch, although I felt the ending was a cop-out. Surely Doomsday can break out of hardened lava....

    Some people criticize Superman for banishing Doomsday like that, but I don't see why. Superman didn't have much choice.
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  4. #64
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    GWOtaku is online now Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob T. Paschal View Post
    The ending for this episode always bothered me. The idea that Batman might turn coat is an interesting one, but it's pretty much dropped and never mentioned again here. What a waste.
    I never felt that was a possibility. What made the ending powerful is that Batman speaks from an unassailable position considering that he literally puts himself on the line to save Supes and foil Cadmus' agenda and does so elsewhere consistently, so safe to say there's little sympathy there. But he also comprehends why they are afraid of the league, as do some others, while Superman is a bit too sensitive to the subject to get past that and appreciate what the people he serves might be feeling.

    Though to his credit, while Supes gets hits buttons pushed here and there during the Cadmus arc I think it's fair to say that throughout the story he doesn't get too close to losing his sense of conscience. He does in that brief moment when everyone thought Flash was dead I'm sure, but the key thing was not surrendering to that temptation.
    I would suggest that it's not the medium, but the quality of perception and expression, that determines the significance of art. But what would a cartoonist know? -Bill Watterson
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWOtaku View Post
    I never felt that was a possibility. What made the ending powerful is that Batman speaks from an unassailable position considering that he literally puts himself on the line to save Supes and foil Cadmus' agenda and does so elsewhere consistently, so safe to say there's little sympathy there. But he also comprehends why they are afraid of the league, and as do some others, while Superman is a bit too sensitive to the subject to get past that and appreciate what the people he serves might be feeling.
    What I also like about that part is its a nice reverse on the conversation he had with Waller in the beginning of the same episode. There he takes the hardline for the JL, a position that Supes would have probably been standing right next to him had he been there.

    I sort of take some offense to calling anyone whos an animator professionally to having little skill. Especially overseas guys who must have mountains of work to do with not so great deadlines and conditions. Its a pretty hard to deal with storyboard guys when their in house. I can only imagine it becomes more of a case of lost in translation when the board guys are an ocean away from the animators and overseas directors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GWOtaku View Post
    I never felt that was a possibility. What made the ending powerful is that Batman speaks from an unassailable position considering that he literally puts himself on the line to save Supes and foil Cadmus' agenda and does so elsewhere consistently, so safe to say there's little sympathy there. But he also comprehends why they are afraid of the league, and as do some others, while Superman is a bit too sensitive to the subject to get past that and appreciate what the people he serves might be feeling.
    That's a fair assestment. When I wrote that I had in the back of my head a piece of commentary I remember hearing that such was something they were toying with. It's considerably less turn-coat-bait-ish simply within the context of the episode, but I still feel like the scene was unresolved. Clash basically put Bruce back in Clark's corner without so much as a "Yo dog, I said some things I didn't really mean earlier" scene.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderwall View Post
    I sort of take some offense to calling anyone whos an animator professionally to having little skill. Especially overseas guys who must have mountains of work to do with not so great deadlines and conditions. Its a pretty hard to deal with storyboard guys when their in house. I can only imagine it becomes more of a case of lost in translation when the board guys are an ocean away from the animators and overseas directors.
    While I understand where you're coming from I'm going to have to stand firm by my comment. While I certainly place lot of the grief on the American staff's uninspired and bad animation is simply that. These guys aren't animators for the babes and bucks, they're animators for the love of it. Sometimes we're good at the things we love and sometimes we are not.

    I don't think there's a communication problem, either. The American staff make semi-regular trips to the studios (I think Dos Santos mentioned going over there on the commentary for The Return). There might very well be an issue of micro-managing the animators in that case, though. That might actually be hurting the key animators' work, too.
    TCG | Let's Sakuga: Discussing animation and the people who make it!

  7. #67
    Wonderwall's Avatar
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    Then you're standing on a blanket statement. True not everyone is going to be great and some will be bad but just saying they're bad comes across badly. I think this is more a perception thing as well. I remember one of my mentors at school told us that something isn't necessarily bad but the style used comes into the equation. I remember James Tucker saying that when they did the shows they did them with live action in mind so they would stage it that way but obviously it would be animated. To get that super powers but in a realistic fashion. Something to that effect it was in that JL retrospective thats going on right now. Could be that it clashes with what you like or look for in animated fare.

    You're right that they do go overseas, that's not really a secret but it's not the same as actually being there all the time. Of course the overseas fdirectors are good enough that they don't need to be micromanaged by guys overseas anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderwall View Post
    Then you're standing on a blanket statement. True not everyone is going to be great and some will be bad but just saying they're bad comes across badly. I think this is more a perception thing as well. I remember one of my mentors at school told us that something isn't necessarily bad but the style used comes into the equation.
    Well, I never particularly made this out to be an issue of overt fact. I don't think the three key animators involved showed any real skill throughout the episode. When I say 'skill' I mean actually being impressive. Animators are just plentiful enough in numbers that just being able to draw on model or stills is no longer a skill.

    I don't really think there's any 'style' to take into account here, either. The aforementioned absent Dos Santos was the only director/boarder who ever sought to interject the series with any form of actual style. I don't really think the term 'style' applies to what is basically a bland showing as is here. The sound effect of punches landing is the only impressive part of the fight, which is something of an issue, I would propose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderwall View Post
    I remember James Tucker saying that when they did the shows they did them with live action in mind so they would stage it that way but obviously it would be animated. To get that super powers but in a realistic fashion. Something to that effect it was in that JL retrospective thats going on right now. Could be that it clashes with what you like or look for in animated fare.
    That's probably one of my biggest problems with the animation in the series: a majority of the time it's storyboarded and shot within the limitations of a live action camera (or rather one not aided by CG blending techniques like a few shots from the Battle of New York in The Avengers). Other than the one or two Macross missile homages the camera is never really utilized. There's too little ambition in the animation when perhas a little more would actually serve the story.
    Last edited by Jacob T. Paschal; 02-20-2013 at 12:30 AM. Reason: Fixed tag.
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  9. #69
    Bobbywoodhogan's Avatar
    Bobbywoodhogan is offline I Will Find Him!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob T. Paschal View Post
    Well, yes. I made a post right before yours commenting on the episode.
    I meant to write wow stupid iPad lol
    Consider Yourself Impeached - Superman to Lex Luthor (Superman/Batman: Public Enemies)

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