Things you “Don't” like about Comics or manga...

[King]

About everyone have their reasons. Now, I'm not telling ppl to bash or whatnot. I like Comics & Manga...But, for example:

In Comics:
To much texts. I mean, (Maybe they have stop or not), about ever panel have a wall full of text to read. And about a good chunk of the time, its a little unnecessary. I can tell a character is mad by the image. I really don't need to read about it.

In manga:
(Mosts of the time its in Jump Comics), is when a series gets off track. Its pretty much the long series that falls into these traps. Sadly for example: Dragonball fell in the hole. The series started repeating it self after when S.S Goku fights Freeza. The Cell game & Buu saga were pointless. And the adventure and the idea of the Dragonballs were lost or have no meaning. I love DB, but I can't just avoid those holes.

[Temple Fugate]

Personally I've always been a little concerned about the multitude of arcs in comics. Two-parters are okay, but there are a lot of comics that do 4/5/6-parters back to back throughout a series' run. The stories may be enjoyable, but it's kind of fatiguing. I can even understand the modern tendency to do this kind of thing; it helps unify the trade paperbacks. But collecting the issues month by month, I only get two, maybe three stories a year out of some titles. Sustaining interest in a single story over the course of six months gets tiring after a while.

Team-based books like JSA are a little different. They deal with major threats and a lot of characters. But Booster Gold's trending four-parters lately, with only one really nice one-shot in between.

The best example of what I mean is the "City of Crime" twelve-parter, which spanned thirteen months in Detective Comics. The story was deeply psychological and actually rather frightening, but it took FOREVER. It wasn't helped by the fact that it took a two-issue break while the "War Crimes" crossover ran. I'm sure it's a much better read in trade paperback, but by Part 12 of the initial run I was completely exhausted and hungry for something different. And quite frankly, I think the story could have been pulled off just as effectively in 8 issues.

One-parters are harder to write, yes, but check out Dini's run on Detective. Almost every issue he wrote was a one-shot, and they were great. Johns' only one-part issue on JSA (#26) was a fantastic send-off. I love the occasional one-parter because it breaks the trend and usually offers a more personal focus/off-beat story idea. I wish more modern comics would feature them.

In Comics:
To much texts. I mean, (Maybe they have stop or not), about ever panel have a wall full of text to read. And about a good chunk of the time, its a little unnecessary. I can tell a character is mad by the image. I really don't need to read about it.

This was more true about golden/silver age comics, but these days I don't see text overuse as often. 2005's JLA Classified? THAT'S a lot of text, but the style of that comic is dialogue-based humor, so it totally works. In Detective Comics, Batman sometimes needs to use narration to help explain the mental work he performs and offer backstory/psychological grounding for a situation. It all depends on "does the text support the story, or does it repeat information already present in the art," and in most cases these days I think it's safe to say the text supports the comic.

[Raidon Makoto]

What I'm not liking about comics today is the massive crossover series that you need to read 20 different series to get the whole story. I have no problem with super-huge crossovers, but it'd be nice if they could keep it within one series.

The other thing I hate is continuity. I LOVE continuity in fictional universes (see Star Wars), but I find both the sliding time scale of Marvel comics and the ignorance of time by DC to be solutions to the problem of aging.

[Wonderwall]

One-parters are harder to write, yes, but check out Dini's run on Detective. Almost every issue he wrote was a one-shot, and they were great.

Yea I really liked how Dini's was just basic comic storytelling, no long arcs, no big event, just Batman stories. Is that collected in a trade anywhere?

What I don't like about comics, is the recent trend to have big "Events" almost yearly now. It's tiresome and having them so frequently really lessens the impact of making an event in the first place. This also has the problem that because these stories effect the whole universe so many of the books have to crossover, and while it helps the big storyline, it cripples stories in the individual comics.

Having them every few years is fine but in the last 3 years DC has had Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, and now Blackest Night and Marvel is the same with Civil War, Secret Invasion, and Ultimatum. Did we really need this many in 3 years? Well they sell so I can see why they do it but its not fun.

Edit: Bah! Rust beat me to the punch :P

[JTurner954]

In Comics:
To much texts. I mean, (Maybe they have stop or not), about ever panel have a wall full of text to read. And about a good chunk of the time, its a little unnecessary. I can tell a character is mad by the image. I really don't need to read about it.

I felt like Marvel was more of a culprit of this than DC. I remember during Maximum Carnage Spider-man made this big speech ending with "You'll get no mercy from Spider-man" then a couple of issues later he's trying to talk people out of doing things just like before. DC was more action oriented (not really surprising as they publish Action Comics).

I see what you mean when it comes to manga/anime. There will be a series I like in the beginning that does something to prevent me from continuing to enjoy it. Bleach is a more recent example where I liked learning about Ichigo and his family and his ability to see sprits. Once they go into the Soul Society, they throw in a bunch of names and characters where I need a map to separate the good guys from the bad. It's just too repetitive for me.

[King]

Another thing that bugs me are when there's a big event is happening. And it effects other series. I see Marvel & DC doing these type of things a lot. Civil War, World War Hulk, R.I.P Batman.

Yeah, its fun and all. But lets slow down with these events.

And, the whole heroes die thing...Give it a rest. We all know they are not gone for good.
(And ppl Complain that DBZ does the death thing way to much.)

[Lord Mawdryn]

Decompressed storytelling--stretching out a story that could really be told in three or four monthly issues into six or seven issues so it's something big enough for a trade...

[Hollaman]

Personally I've always been a little concerned about the multitude of arcs in comics. Two-parters are okay, but there are a lot of comics that do 4/5/6-parters back to back throughout a series' run. The stories may be enjoyable, but it's kind of fatiguing. I can even understand the modern tendency to do this kind of thing; it helps unify the trade paperbacks. But collecting the issues month by month, I only get two, maybe three stories a year out of some titles. Sustaining interest in a single story over the course of six months gets tiring after a while.

Team-based books like JSA are a little different. They deal with major threats and a lot of characters. But Booster Gold's trending four-parters lately, with only one really nice one-shot in between.

The best example of what I mean is the "City of Crime" twelve-parter, which spanned thirteen months in Detective Comics. The story was deeply psychological and actually rather frightening, but it took FOREVER. It wasn't helped by the fact that it took a two-issue break while the "War Crimes" crossover ran. I'm sure it's a much better read in trade paperback, but by Part 12 of the initial run I was completely exhausted and hungry for something different. And quite frankly, I think the story could have been pulled off just as effectively in 8 issues.

One-parters are harder to write, yes, but check out Dini's run on Detective. Almost every issue he wrote was a one-shot, and they were great. Johns' only one-part issue on JSA (#26) was a fantastic send-off. I love the occasional one-parter because it breaks the trend and usually offers a more personal focus/off-beat story idea. I wish more modern comics would feature them.

This was more true about golden/silver age comics, but these days I don't see text overuse as often. 2005's JLA Classified? THAT'S a lot of text, but the style of that comic is dialogue-based humor, so it totally works. In Detective Comics, Batman sometimes needs to use narration to help explain the mental work he performs and offer backstory/psychological grounding for a situation. It all depends on "does the text support the story, or does it repeat information already present in the art," and in most cases these days I think it's safe to say the text supports the comic.

I love you.

This is one of my pet peeves with Comics is the back to back 5 to 6 issue story arcs. I would love for them to do one issue stories way more often especially for monthly titles.

[AdamYJ]

The main thing I have trouble with these days is just how much room they take up.

However, one thing that really bugs me about mainstream US comics, notably the superhero ones, is the way things tend to end. In general, things don't end. They keep going and going, changing forms as they go. However, the little "chapter endings" they tend to get are always negative, or at least bittersweet. There are no happy endings in superhero comics. Things have to end negatively in order to make way for the new version that's coming. If things end happily, then you have to leave things as they are. Because that's the point of a happy ending. If things end badly, then there's a reason to "try again". Some examples: Hal Jordan's ending back in the '90s was very negative. Barry Allen's ending was bittersweet. Heck, Young Justice had a perfectly fine ending in its 55th issue. Then they went and did the "Graduation Day" mini to create a negative ending, dismantle the team and turn them into Teen Titans.

It's for reasons like this I sometimes think that there should be more definitive endings for superheroes so that they can leave on a high note sometimes.

[Tomato Surprise]

The main thing I have trouble with these days is just how much room they take up.

However, one thing that really bugs me about mainstream US comics, notably the superhero ones, is the way things tend to end. In general, things don't end. They keep going and going, changing forms as they go. However, the little "chapter endings" they tend to get are always negative, or at least bittersweet. There are no happy endings in superhero comics. Things have to end negatively in order to make way for the new version that's coming. If things end happily, then you have to leave things as they are. Because that's the point of a happy ending. If things end badly, then there's a reason to "try again". Some examples: Hal Jordan's ending back in the '90s was very negative. Barry Allen's ending was bittersweet. Heck, Young Justice had a perfectly fine ending in its 55th issue. Then they went and did the "Graduation Day" mini to create a negative ending, dismantle the team and turn them into Teen Titans.

It's for reasons like this I sometimes think that there should be more definitive endings for superheroes so that they can leave on a high note sometimes.

Read DC: The New Frontier now. Seriously, go pick it up as soon as you're finished reading this. It's optimistic, the art is gorgeous, and there's no reason not to if you're near a bookstore/library.

As far as quibbles with comics, I have one BIG one. The revolving door of continuity. You want to kill Batman? Fine. You want to to have Superman make a New Krypton? Fine and good. You want to have a new Question? Sure. BUT KEEP 'EM THAT WAY FOR A GOOD 3 TO 4 YEARS. I can't get attached and emotionally invested in a story if I know it'll be wiped away in five years and NOTHING will change. In no other medium can you get away with taking a retcon machete to the narrative fifty times. Heck, eben if I disagree with Ome More Day from a writing standpoint, and think it's pure, uneeded crap, the one thing Quesada did right is he kept the retcon. It may not've been a good one, and I want it undone, but he had the guts to STICK WITH HIS PLAN. There were consequences.

Thoughts?
Tomato

[soundmonkey44]

Comics
Putting To much text in one bubble, making it small & hard to read (sometimes)

Inconsitant art in a story arc

Not Checking for Typo's (Marvel & DC do this sometimes)

Making your Comic Soap-opraish (Spider-man, im looking at you!)

And of course Rotating writers to often its ok to change writers after a year or 2 but i hate it when they do it every 4-6 months.

Overpriced, oy vey 3.99 for Avengers nowadys...Whats the world coming to!

Manga

Lack of Strong Female Characters in shonen

Fanservice Being Used more for pointless innuedo then actual comedy

Lack of Realistic men in Shojo manga

people labeling Tenchi soley as Harem, when its pretty much Sci-fi Comedy (with a dash of harem.) (Ryoko's my favriote!:anime

& last but not least, lack of origional character design, now i know thats hard to do in B&W comics but still alot of characters nowadays in manga & anime look alot & i mean alot alike.

[JeffBreakdown]

to the original poster:

i find it strange that you think there is too much text...not because it's your preference but i've heard many people complaining about some comics not having ENOUGH text because they feel like they're being ripped off for paying almost 4 dollars an issue. i know during some issues of civil war and old man logan i felt real jipped when i picked up the issue and 3 minutes later i closed it. i mean, i love the art and often go back to look at good issues several times, but some series need a lot of dialogue.

but also, i agree with you. there was an issue of daredevil, i think in the late 30s or 40s that bendis wrote and there was not a word of dialogue...and the issue was GREAT. just something about how him and maleev worked together to make the images tell the WHOLE story, pure genius. ill have to look for it and find the issue number for you.

[King]

to the original poster:

i find it strange that you think there is too much text...not because it's your preference but i've heard many people complaining about some comics not having ENOUGH text because they feel like they're being ripped off for paying almost 4 dollars an issue. i know during some issues of civil war and old man logan i felt real jipped when i picked up the issue and 3 minutes later i closed it. i mean, i love the art and often go back to look at good issues several times, but some series need a lot of dialogue.

but also, i agree with you. there was an issue of daredevil, i think in the late 30s or 40s that bendis wrote and there was not a word of dialogue...and the issue was GREAT. just something about how him and maleev worked together to make the images tell the WHOLE story, pure genius. ill have to look for it and find the issue number for you.

Well, when I say “TO MUCH TEXT”, I mean text like “You see Batman getting mad and mad and mad. etc”. Like, instead of seeing the character how mad or happy they are, you read about it.

If its texts like, adding into the story, than I get it.

I personally think not every single panel need to have text in it to explain the story.

[Duke]

One of the things I don't like about manga is just how there's not ENOUGH room to tell everything. The main storyline/fight takes up so much room there's not enough for everything else. Since I just re-read it, I'll use Naruto as an example:

- During the Chunin Exam in Part 1, Temari vs. TenTen was the only fight we never saw. Instead, the manga focused more on Sakura and Ino waking up from their fight and by the time we moved on to the other battles, TenTen had already been defeated.

- When Orochimaru attacked the village, we first focused on Sarutobi facing off against Orochi, then Team 7 vs. Gaara. We only got a couple panels showing what Jiraiya, the Hyuga clan (or other Hyugas besides Hisashi), the original Ino-Shika-Cho combo, Anko, Ibiki, Ebisu, the Inuzuka clan, and the Aburame clan were doing during the attack.

- When Part II started up, Naruto and Sakura fought against Kakashi as a test of their improved skills. However, the meat of the fight was not shown in favor of Deidara going after Gaara. When we cut back to Naruto, he and Sakura have been fighting for hours and they come up with the plan to beat Kakashi.

- After Gaara's kidnapped, Team Guy is dispatched to help out Team Kakashi and are eventually confronted with exact replicas of themselves. This allows Kishimoto to keep Team Guy occupied while Sakura & Chiyo fight Sasori and Kakashi and Naruto fight Deidara, especially since we don't check back on Team Guy until all the copies are beaten. We don't even get HOW they're beaten, just that they are.

- During the gigantic attack Pain launched on Konoha, we basically only kept eyes on Kakashi and the Akimichis fight. Konohamaru got a couple chapters to fight, but only one freaking page showing him

Spoiler:

learning the Rasengan

while everybody else from the Rookie 9 barely got more than a page.

Spoiler:

Not to mention they didn't use the rather obvious plot device of having Neji find Nagato, since Team Guy was out of the village at the time, right after Ino's dad shouted for all ninja that are still able to walk to try and search for Nagato. Considering that's what Neji did during the Rescue Gaara arc, why not reuse it?

I get why this stuff wasn't shown, as it would've dragged the various storylines out even more than they are already, but it's a shame we didn't get to see this stuff. The anime does try to fill in the blanks, but to mixed results.

Another thing I hate is when a straight-to-TV anime gets a manga adaption. Not only is nothing new covered, but often things go so fast all the meaning behind the actions is lost. My biggest pet peeve of this are the various Gundam manga. I don't mean the various sidestories, I mean the manga that basically retell the 50-episode anime into 6 volumes.

[King]

Comics
Manga

Lack of Strong Female Characters in shonen

Agree. Come on, show some girl power.

Fanservice Being Used more for pointless innuedo then actual comedy

True, but some of the fanservice is kind of funny.

Lack of Realistic men in Shojo manga

But come on, when you got this look



Why do you need to use romance?

people labeling Tenchi soley as Harem, when its pretty much Sci-fi Comedy (with a dash of harem.) (Ryoko's my favriote!:anime

Don't forget Washu!

& last but not least, lack of origional character design, now i know thats hard to do in B&W comics but still alot of characters nowadays in manga & anime look alot & i mean alot alike.

I blame the eyes!

[TheGunheart]

Comics:

Long runners that have been done by multiple writers and artists. Love limited series like Watchmen, but I honestly don't see myself trying to follow the long runners.


Manga:

Lack of giant robot series available.

[soundmonkey44]

@King: Are You My Long Lost Brother? LULZ!

@GunHeart: I agree not enough GIANT ROBOTS OF DOOM! LULZ!:anime:
(at least not anymore)

[King]

Comic:

-Not all, but I fine a good chunk of Comic book art in character design to be a little to strict and or to stiff. I know about a good chunk of the comic book series are talking place in the real world, but relax a little. I mean, I know Watchman is the god of all comics, but I really can't handle the art style. Thats why I like Hellboy, The Goons, etc art style. It maybe not realistic and maybe to cartoonny, but I like it.

-I really don't like the whole “Everything must be dark”. Lighting up a bit.


Manga

-Well, its about Manga being brought right here in the U.S.
Like, I really don't like how Viz's treats manga. If a manga series thats popular, they pretty much leave it as it is. But when manga series thats not so popular, they go and edit it. Same goes with Tokyopop, they edit and or cancel the series.

-I'm kind of getting tired of the emo characters acting all dramatic.

[silvanoir]

American comics:

-how every female whether good or evil, has to have an idealized sexy body. There's no diversity in the superhero comics. Men have have all types of bodies, but the women are dolls with different eye and hair colors. Where are the short girls, the fat girls, the flat-chested girls? Or, for pete's sake, the MODEST girls? Do they not exist?

-Too many writers, too many changes. A character can go from being dead to alive to dead to alive again, straight to gay, man to woman, looks completely change, personality completely change, hero to villain in just one decade. gives me a headache.

- how romance doesn't last long... never get too attached to a pairing, the next writer will split them up or kill one of them off

- trying to follow any popular long running series in general, especially given in the tie-in and crossover and big event mania these days.

Manga:

- "and then it kept going" disease that the longer running series have mainly the fighting series like Bleach and Naruto. Start off good, but then it keeps going and going, piling on the angst and having a cast of billions, and getting horribly repetitive.
It's why I try to stick to the series that have a known ending.

- how eating too much (especially sugar) is supposed to be endearing. oh look, s/he eats a hundred cakes in one sitting, isn't that cute/funny? NO.

- how many girls in shonen series revert to standing around and cheering for their man, or have to be rescued by him, even when they have the ability to fight for/defend themselves.

[King]

American comics:

-how every female whether good or evil, has to have an idealized sexy body. There's no diversity in the superhero comics. Men have have all types of bodies, but the women are dolls with different eye and hair colors. Where are the short girls, the fat girls, the flat-chested girls? Or, for pete's sake, the MODEST girls? Do they not exist?

Who wants a realistic weman, when you got these girls...

- how romance doesn't last long... never get too attached to a pairing, the next writer will split them up or kill one of them off

Things happen.

- how many girls in shonen series revert to standing around and cheering for their man, or have to be rescued by him, even when they have the ability to fight for/defend themselves.

...Naruto...

:chowder: