Superman vs Wolverine

[Stupendous Man]

I just recently started a thread in the Justice League forum
called Justice League vs Xmen .

I think its actually an interesting match up, even though on the
surface it would appear the Justice League has the Xmen outgunned.

I invite anyone to take a gander and participate in that thread ..
however here Id like to discuss and offshoot of that thread.

I stated in the JLvs Xmen thread that the only way for the Xmen to beat the JLeague is too nuetralize Superman.

My question is this .

Wolverine vs Superman.

Do wolverines adamantium claws cut through supermans flesh?

If so this becomes an interesting match up.
Now I know this becomes difficult cause were mixing the fantasy sciences of two different fantasy universes ..but lets try.

Its been said that adamantium is the strongest substance known to man ... wolvie uses his claws to cut through several feet of steel as if it was butter.

Could his claws penetrate supermans flesh?

I would argue they could based on Supermans battle with
Doomsday.

Im going to be very carefull, because I know Max will analyze
and come up with holes in my logic (which is why we love him )..

We know Supermans flesh can be punctured without kryptonite.
Doomsday cut into him ...superman bled .

Whats more Doomsday cut into supermans flesh with bone
potrusions.. and while we have to guess that it was harder than your average bone ...would doomsdays bones be more effective than wolverines adamantium claws?

Also , if one studies the Doomsday/ Supes fights ..would
you say Superman died from loss of blood or internal injuries?

I think possibly it was a combination of both those factors with
exhaustion of his stored energy preventing him from healing.

How would a wolverine / Superman fight play out then .

What if Wolverine stabs Superman through the heart.

It would appear that despite Supermans differences in
kryptonian biology ...blood flow is still important to keeping
him alive. ( if we agree that Superman died of blood loss and
internal injuries correct? )


Marvel states that adamantium can not be broken ...
Wolverine has an adamantium skeleton.
Could superman break one of wolverines arms or ribs?


What does everyone think?

[Kathy Kane]

Ok I think that Superman would win.
How?
Simple, he could just shoot Wolvie with his heat vision.
result-- fried Wolverine.
I like Wolerine, but hands down, Superman would win easy.

[Shriek]

Superman would win...

He would easily dodge Wolverine by using Super speed. Then he could just as easily keep pushing and throwing Wolverine in all sorts of directions avoiding his claws.

[Stupendous Man]

Heat Vision wouldnt necessarily take Wolverine out of the picture ... with wolverines healing factor ... he would heal from any damage done by heat vision.


Also ... using super speed against wolverine .
Your assuming Supermans response would be to avoid confrontation with Wolverine.


What if he couldnt take the cowards way out of it and run ..
what if he has to confront Wolverine ? Get within Wolverines
reach ?


Remember Superman fell to Doomsday .. who did not have superspeed.


The real question is I think ... can Wolverines Claws
pierce Supermans flesh?

I say yes.

[TerryMcGuiness]

<Wolverine> "Grrrrr, stubble,angst, back-hair, best there is at what I do grrrrrrr bub bub bub grrrrrr...*snickt* CRINK!...............but nothing can break my claws??

<Superman> "Then I guess you just hit a whole lot of nothing...bub."

[Stupendous Man]

I take it Terry that you dont think Wolverines Claws cut cut Superman ?

Even though weve seen that things can cut him if sufficiently
durable? Like Doomsdays Bones? Surely Wolverines Claws are
sharper and deadlier than Doomsdays Bones?

[Calhoun07]

I think Wolverine could cut Superman. He cut the Hulk in a What If issue. But if he could get close enough to Supes to do it? He lacks the speed and agility, but if he got one lucky swing, it would be curtains for Supes. When Wolverine took down Hulk, I think that was the closest thing to taking down Superman.

[NewMaxFranklin]

I too believe that Wolvie's claws could cut Supes. But, the chances of Wolverine actually sticking Big Blue are slim.

I've always believed that Superman's super-speed is not natural to him. He can move incredibly fast, but, unlike Flash, it takes effort on his part. For the most part he moves at normal human speed. And he doesn't seem to have great reaction time.

Heat vision would make quick work of Wolvie. He was vaporised by a sentinel's lazer blast in an elseworlds. But, Supes doesn't use leathal force. Wolverine does.

[DR. BELCH]

--Wolverine disfigure Ben Grimm with one swipe? Suppose he doesn't go for the kill, but aims for the face? Imagine Superman partially blinded or rendered groteque...and how would Clark Kent explain his new scarred mug?

[Stupendous Man]

I think people give too much credence to supes superspeed.

First of all .. unlike flash , supermans superspeed or reflexes are
a power that he has to apparently activate.

Think back to all of Supermans battles throughout the years and youll see my point.

Doomsday didnt have superspeed ..yet he was able to connect punches w superman. In the heat of battle it may be difficult for supes to use his superspeed.

Also remember speed is only usefull to avoid bieng attacked ..
but if put in a situation where Supe would have to confront
Wolverine it would be different.

Also ... dont discount the fact that Wolverine has enhanced reflexes and speed.


***

I think Wolverine would be able to gut Superman open like a fish .


Also .. I dont think Supermans heat vision would be able to vaporize wolverine ...his healing factor in overdrive is almost
instantaneous .

[Kal-el]

It seems this would all depend on how Wolverine's adamantium blades and skeleton would hold up to Superman. The Marvel universe says they can't be broken. Taking that into account, it could be assumed that Supes couldn't break them either. It also could be assumed that they could than penetrate his invulnerability.
Ok, if they can't be broken, can they be bent? Magneto seems to be able to bend them with his powers, so it could be assumed they can bend. Could Supes bend them?
Being from two different "universes" makes this a difficult comparison. An arguement could be made for either side (though I'd still like to see Superman win).

[don Jaime]

I recall flipping through a Wizard Wolverine special where they talked with other books' writers on how their character would match up with Logan. About the only one that gave him any chance was Superman's writer (and I don't know his name, so don't ask). He said that about the only way to stop Wolverine is to kill him, and Superman would draw the line and walk away before doing that. There was little question that Superman would call the shots in any scrap.

I think the claws would cut, but Logan doesn't have the strength to force them into Superman's flesh. Result: a lot of glorified paper cuts, maybe a few along the lines of a razor slash. An obstacle, but not a serious one.

Speed + heat vision = Canadian humiliation. The heat vision can kill Wolverine; that's how he was "killed" by a Sentinel in "Days of Future Past" and also in the supremely retarded Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe. Flash cooking will kill every cell in his body before the healing factor gene is activated.

[Nightwing]

Wolverine's skeleton and claws are the strongest metal known to man. BUT, since Clark isn't exactly "man" then I could easily see how they could hurt each other, but only to an extent.

But what I think pro-Wolverine people are overlooking are Superman's powers. He's extremely powerful, although I think his lightening fast reflexes and speed could eventually come up with a strategy to defeat Logan, healing factor or not (Clark has that too, to a small extent).

[Knight]

First Doomsday has superhuman reaction time. Thats why he can connect punchs on Superman. In his first battle against the JLA he was said to be faster than Flash by one of the members of the League.

Secondly Supermans invulnerability is pretty high. He has survived being hit by nukes and during his team up with the Fantastic Four a few years ago Mr. Fantastic noted that he had withstood some energy blasts that were said by him to be able to cut through adamatium. Do I think Wolverine could still cut him? Yes. but like Don Jamie said I dont think he has the strength to force them all the way through his skin.

And while Superman doesnt always use his superspeed once he gets the notion that Wolverine can damage him the fights over because Superman would turn it up and theres nothing Wolverine could do against him. Not only can he hit him with heat vision or physically hold his hands to restrain him but one superhard punch to that adamantium skull and he's unconsious. The Hulks even done that.

[Kal-el]

Originally posted by Knight


Secondly Supermans invulnerability is pretty high. He has survived being hit by nukes and during his team up with the Fantastic Four a few years ago Mr. Fantastic noted that he had withstood some energy blasts that were said by him to be able to cut through adamatium.

Also by Knight...
Not only can he hit him with heat vision or physically hold his hands to restrain him but one superhard punch to that adamantium skull and he's unconsious. The Hulks even done that.

So, if it is true that Supes has been able to withstand energy blasts that *could* cut through adamantium, would this not give Superman a distinct advantage?
And, if the Hulk has rendered Wolverine unconscious with a superhard punch, I would assume Supes could do the same, especially considering that, in a crossover issue (don't remember when), Supes went toe-to-toe with the Hulk, trading blows with him and won (if I'm remembering correctly, he may have even held back a bit against Hulk).

Does this seem to tip the scales in favor of Superman in this bought?

[oranthal]

that would the DC and Marvel crossover. and supes said that he had to go all out against hulk.

Originally posted by Kal-el


So, if it is true that Supes has been able to withstand energy blasts that *could* cut through adamantium, would this not give Superman a distinct advantage?
And, if the Hulk has rendered Wolverine unconscious with a superhard punch, I would assume Supes could do the same, especially considering that, in a crossover issue (don't remember when), Supes went toe-to-toe with the Hulk, trading blows with him and won (if I'm remembering correctly, he may have even held back a bit against Hulk).

Does this seem to tip the scales in favor of Superman in this bought?

[Naraht]

Bad Ass, vs Boy Scout.

Could Adamandium Cut through Supes? Probably.
Could Superman bend Wolvie? Probably.

Everything really depends on which Supes & Wolverine we're dealing with...both characters have undergone a number of changes, mutations, and modifications through their long lives in the comics, cartoons, tv shows, and movies.
Comic Wolverine vs. Lois & Clark Supes, it would be Wolvie Hands down.
Comic Supes vs. X-Men Evolution Wolvie, I think Supes'll win. It all depends.

I dunno, I think it's all a bit silly, Spiderman is better than both of em! =]

(I never did like Superman, he has it all...and has very few personal problems....grrrr!)

[Nightwing]

Yeah I like Spiderman better myself, but I still love Superman. The corniness just appeals to me, as well as the character as a whole.

Originally posted by naraht
(I never did like Superman, he has it all...and has very few personal problems....grrrr!)

AH! Finaly a DC heroes fan who's man enough to finaly admit it!! I can't tell you the number of hardcore Batman fans who say they hate Superman with a passion (and it's for that reason incidentally). My hat goes off to you my friend.

[commando]

First off to make it fair I will keep in time with the history of these two heros. Both from comic book and movie history standpoints.

Well, here goes. We all know the history around superman and wolverine. For example superman being invulnerable to everything except when kryptonite is in play. So what is kryptonite and why does it affect supe?

We know supe is from Krypton. A planet where, contrary to popular belief, was home to a race of "superhuman" aliens. Although supe looks human he is actually made of a crystal substance from his homeworld. As were all the other Kryptonians. My reference comes from superman the movie (pt 1) in which Jor-el was explaining to supe as he traveled to earth in his capsule. Right before the transition to a man, supe's crystal (not steel) skull was shown. Watch the movie to see.

As we know crystals have the tendancy to absourb energy around them (this is the reason supe seems to charge up when he gets closer to the sun). All the kryptonian race had these so called powers such as flight, superspeed, freeze breath, heat vision etc.. They just didnt know it because kryptonite (remember kryptonite is radioactive pieces of supes homeworld) kept these powers at bay. The red kryptonian sun (the source of their power according to Jor-el) and the krptonite made for a fine balance of power and vulnerability on krypton. In short, getting superman away from kryptonite renders him INVULNERABLE period. Also take note how close supe has to be to kryptonite for it to take effect. And, how short the distance kryptonite can be moved away before he starts to recover. The only thing that stands a chance against superman is other ALIENS like him, not humans and not genetically altered mutant HUMANS.

Ok, now for wolverine. A born mutant, with enhanced senses and an incredible healing factor. That's it! No superspeed, no superstrength, no heat vision, no freezing breath, no flight, nothing. Oh, I forgot his MAN MADE SO-CALLED INDESTRUCTIBLE SKELETON AND ADIMANTIUM CLAWS. Lets keep in mind his healing factor is what made him the perfect candidate for the governments indestructible soldier project in the first place. There was this meteor the fell from OUTER SPACE. The govenment found it and then found a way to make a superhard substance from it. The jive that was in the wolverine origins movie about little wolvie being born with bone claws is garbage. True fans know the government gave him those claws as a weapon. But, thats besides the point. Even if wolvie was born with bone claws that got laced with adimantium keep in mind that is his ONLY offensive weapon.

So, without further adue, here's the fight.

Assuming that wolvies claws could cut supe (just to make it a little more fair to wolvie fans) Could he REALLY cut supe? Let's not forget, we aren't dealing with some incredibly (HULK) stupid hero here. We have an alien that not only has these powers but all the knowledge of the universe in his brain which was taught to him also on his shuttle ride to earth.

Here are some of the many ways the fight would be no contest.

1. Supe spits on wolverine and freezes him. Wolvie without super-strength would be at the mercy of the glacier supe creates around him.
Wolverine neutralized

2. Supe uses his super strength to crush wolvie under a huge bolder. wolvie is unable to move it.
Wolverine neutralized

3. Superman imitates the HULK. Using his super speed gets the drop on him. Grabs him and rips his claws out. affectionately calling them BUTTERKNIVES just like the hulk.
Wolverine neutralized

4. We all know that supe is pretty much a nuclear reactor considering how he soaks up the sun's energy right? He stands back, blast poor little wolvie with his heat vision consequently MELTING HIS BRAIN.
Wolverine neutralized


5. Ok, one more for all you people saying "That's still not killing wolverine." Picture this, supe gets the drop on wolvie (something that is easy to do might I add) grabs him by the arms and rips. There goes wolvies arms. Remember his SKELETON is laced with adimantium. Not the tendons and ligaments that connect it. Sure he may be able to regenerate a wound as serious as that. But, he can't grow back that man made adimantium that lined those bones now can he. So standing there defensless with his regular ol human arms grown back he tries to run over and head butt or even bite superman. Instanly resulting in needing a trip to the dentist for dentures. Supe laughs at this pathettic last attempt at doing some kind of damage. And slowly, and methodically snatches wolvie skeleton apart While singing "The hip bone connected to the thigh bone, the thigh bone connected to the knee bone." Neatly places them in a duffle bag and carries them into the sun disposing of them while neatly getting a golden-bronze tan in the process.

Wolverine neutralized FOR GOOD!!!!

Let's face the facts people. The man who created superman thought of everything. Hands down, SUPERMAN, THE MOST COMPLETE AND TOTAL SUPERHERO EVER CREATED!!!!!!!!

Thanks for your time. I hope you enjoyed my story.
GREG

gregorydtatum@yahoo.com

[Shawn Hopkins]

Holy crap. Is that the longest time for a thread bump ever? Almost eight years? I think it was the oldest thread on the board.